Re: [Bitcoin-development] Consensus-enforced transaction replacement via sequence numbers

2015-06-09 Thread Rusty Russell
Tier Nolan tier.no...@gmail.com writes: What are the use cases for relative lock time verify? I have 1 and I think that is the kind of thing it is useful for. I think that most cases are just to guarantee that the other party has a chance to react. This means that 8191 blocks should be more

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Consensus-enforced transaction replacement via sequence numbers

2015-05-28 Thread Tier Nolan
Can you update it so that it only applies to transactions with version number 3 and higher. Changing the meaning of a field is exactly what the version numbers are for. You could even decode version 3 transactions like that. Version 3 transactions have a sequence number of 0x and the

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Consensus-enforced transaction replacement via sequence numbers

2015-05-28 Thread Peter Todd
On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 11:30:18AM +0100, Tier Nolan wrote: Can you update it so that it only applies to transactions with version number 3 and higher. Changing the meaning of a field is exactly what the version numbers are for. You could even decode version 3 transactions like that.

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Consensus-enforced transaction replacement via sequence numbers

2015-05-28 Thread Tier Nolan
On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 3:59 PM, Mark Friedenbach m...@friedenbach.org wrote: Why 3? Do we have a version 2? I meant whatever the next version is, so you are right, it's version 2. As for doing it in serialization, that would alter the txid making it a hard fork change. The change is

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Consensus-enforced transaction replacement via sequence numbers

2015-05-27 Thread Peter Todd
On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 08:18:52AM +, Gregory Maxwell wrote: On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 7:47 AM, Peter Todd p...@petertodd.org wrote: Equally this proposal is no more consensus enforcement than simply increasing the fee (and possibly decreasing the absolute nLockTime) for You've

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Consensus-enforced transaction replacement via sequence numbers

2015-05-27 Thread Mike Hearn
Sequence numbers appear to have been originally intended as a mechanism for transaction replacement within the context of multi-party transaction construction, e.g. a micropayment channel. Yes indeed they were. Satoshis mechanism was more general than micropayment channels and could do HFT

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Consensus-enforced transaction replacement via sequence numbers

2015-05-27 Thread Tier Nolan
This could cause legacy transactions to become unspendable. A new transaction version number should be used to indicate the change of the field from sequence number to relative lock time. Legacy transactions should not have the rule applied to them. On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 9:18 AM, Gregory

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Consensus-enforced transaction replacement via sequence numbers

2015-05-27 Thread Gregory Maxwell
On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 7:47 AM, Peter Todd p...@petertodd.org wrote: Equally this proposal is no more consensus enforcement than simply increasing the fee (and possibly decreasing the absolute nLockTime) for You've misunderstood it, I think-- Functionally nlocktime but relative to each txin's

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Consensus-enforced transaction replacement via sequence numbers

2015-05-27 Thread Mark Friedenbach
On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 3:11 AM, Mike Hearn m...@plan99.net wrote: As I believe out of all proposed protocols Satoshi's is still the most powerful, I would suggest that any change to the semantics on nSequence be gated by a high bit or something, so the original meaning remains available

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Consensus-enforced transaction replacement via sequence numbers

2015-05-27 Thread Jorge Timón
On May 27, 2015 12:58 PM, Peter Todd p...@petertodd.org wrote: What I'm not seeing is how the relative nLockTime that nSequence provides fundamentally changes any of this. This allows the implementation of a rcltv that doesn't make script depend on the current height, in a similar way that

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Consensus-enforced transaction replacement via sequence numbers

2015-05-27 Thread Mike Hearn
Mike, this proposal was purposefully constructed to maintain as well as possible the semantics of Satoshi's original construction. Higher sequence numbers -- chronologically later transactions -- are able to hit the chain earlier, and therefore it can be reasonably argued will be selected by

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Consensus-enforced transaction replacement via sequence numbers

2015-05-27 Thread Peter Todd
On Tue, May 26, 2015 at 06:50:29PM -0700, Mark Friedenbach wrote: Sequence numbers appear to have been originally intended as a mechanism for transaction replacement within the context of multi-party transaction construction, e.g. a micropayment channel. The idea is that a participant can sign

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Consensus-enforced transaction replacement via sequence numbers

2015-05-27 Thread Telephone Lemien
Please remove me from the mailing list 2015-05-27 3:50 GMT+02:00 Mark Friedenbach m...@friedenbach.org: Sequence numbers appear to have been originally intended as a mechanism for transaction replacement within the context of multi-party transaction construction, e.g. a micropayment channel.