Re: [Bitcoin-development] Monetary Authority for Bitcoin
On 12/10/13, Ryan Carboni ryan.jc...@gmail.com wrote: You're just closed minded. No, at least to persons have explained you why your proposal is not feasible. If you wanted to learn, you would have made questions on why those parts of your proposal are unfeasible. There have been many proposals about stablecoins in bitcointalk and other forums (for example, the initial proposals freicoin subforum). I have participated in several of them trying to find a solution and I'm now convinced that this is impossible to implement in a secure AND P2P system. This is off-topic for this forum, specially if (as you've shown to us) you are not interested in learning why this proposal is unfeasible. -- Jorge Timón http://freico.in/ -- Sponsored by Intel(R) XDK Develop, test and display web and hybrid apps with a single code base. Download it for free now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=111408631iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] Monetary Authority for Bitcoin
It is not a violation of the trust of those holding the currency. Many people bought Bitcoin in the hopes that it's value in the relation of other currencies will increase, not because there's a fixed money supply. The majority of people using Bitcoin as a currency in exchange for real goods are using the exchanges. My proposal will still allow for 4.9% semi-weekly variations in the price of Bitcoin, allowing for it to appreciate 11,800% per year. On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 2:11 PM, Andrew Poelstra as...@sfu.ca wrote: On Mon, Dec 09, 2013 at 02:01:07PM -0800, Ryan Carboni wrote: This is no doubt probably a very controversial Bitcoin Improvement Proposal and is also a very rough draft of one. Ryan, you can stop there already because any change to the inflation formula (supposing such a thing is even possible, which it's not) would be a violation of the trust of those holding the currency, who obtained it while believing that its inflation algorithm would not change. -- Andrew Poelstra Email: apoelstra at wpsoftware.net Web: http://www.wpsoftware.net/andrew If they had taught a class on how to be the kind of citizen Dick Cheney worries about, I would have finished high school. --Edward Snowden -- Sponsored by Intel(R) XDK Develop, test and display web and hybrid apps with a single code base. Download it for free now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=111408631iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] Monetary Authority for Bitcoin
On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 7:23 PM, Ryan Carboni ryan.jc...@gmail.com wrote: It is not a violation of the trust of those holding the currency. Many people bought Bitcoin in the hopes that it's value in the relation of other currencies will increase, not because there's a fixed money supply. The majority of people using Bitcoin as a currency in exchange for real goods are using the exchanges. Your proposal has been met with widespread laughter. Were I not ill with the flu, mockery would ensue as well. -- Jeff Garzik Bitcoin core developer and open source evangelist BitPay, Inc. https://bitpay.com/ -- Sponsored by Intel(R) XDK Develop, test and display web and hybrid apps with a single code base. Download it for free now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=111408631iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] Monetary Authority for Bitcoin
For what it's worth, once upon a time I pushed this agenda on Bitcointalk. I'd say early 2011 or so. The response I got was so strong and unanimous in favor of this point being absolutely non-negotiable that if the money supply were anything other than fixed, Bitcoin may as well be pretend e-dollars. I was not just persuaded against it, I was put in my place. I believe that if there ever becomes a consensus that Bitcoin's inflation parameters were a show-stopper for the Bitcoin economy, that the power to correct it lies with merchants, who would vote for changing the rules. I believe they would do this not by changing Bitcoin, but by accepting, in parallel, a brand new alt coin that reflects the consensus as to how the inflation should be. I believe such an alt coin would have its genesis at around the time that consensus moved toward accepting inflation, rather than adopting the seignorage of some other alt coin out there today. Mike/Casascius From: Ryan Carboni [mailto:ryan.jc...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, December 09, 2013 3:24 PM To: apoels...@wpsoftware.net Cc: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Monetary Authority for Bitcoin It is not a violation of the trust of those holding the currency. Many people bought Bitcoin in the hopes that it's value in the relation of other currencies will increase, not because there's a fixed money supply. The majority of people using Bitcoin as a currency in exchange for real goods are using the exchanges. My proposal will still allow for 4.9% semi-weekly variations in the price of Bitcoin, allowing for it to appreciate 11,800% per year. On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 2:11 PM, Andrew Poelstra as...@sfu.camailto:as...@sfu.ca wrote: On Mon, Dec 09, 2013 at 02:01:07PM -0800, Ryan Carboni wrote: This is no doubt probably a very controversial Bitcoin Improvement Proposal and is also a very rough draft of one. Ryan, you can stop there already because any change to the inflation formula (supposing such a thing is even possible, which it's not) would be a violation of the trust of those holding the currency, who obtained it while believing that its inflation algorithm would not change. -- Andrew Poelstra Email: apoelstra at wpsoftware.nethttp://wpsoftware.net Web: http://www.wpsoftware.net/andrew If they had taught a class on how to be the kind of citizen Dick Cheney worries about, I would have finished high school. --Edward Snowden -- Sponsored by Intel(R) XDK Develop, test and display web and hybrid apps with a single code base. Download it for free now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=111408631iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] Monetary Authority for Bitcoin
To piggyback on Jeff, Any proposal that is going to add reliance upon data from third parties outside of the Bitcoin network itself is likely going to be rejected outright. This opens far too many potential vulnerabilities. The exchanges that are kept track of could be hard coded into Bitcoin or the miner could choose, how this works is not something I'm personally focused on. Yeah... you can't just gloss over a little detail like that. There must be consensus between the miners, otherwise a solved block will be rejected by a miner's peers. -- Jameson Lopp Software Engineer Bronto Software, Inc On 12/09/2013 06:10 PM, Jeff Garzik wrote: On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 7:23 PM, Ryan Carboni ryan.jc...@gmail.com wrote: It is not a violation of the trust of those holding the currency. Many people bought Bitcoin in the hopes that it's value in the relation of other currencies will increase, not because there's a fixed money supply. The majority of people using Bitcoin as a currency in exchange for real goods are using the exchanges. Your proposal has been met with widespread laughter. Were I not ill with the flu, mockery would ensue as well. -- Sponsored by Intel(R) XDK Develop, test and display web and hybrid apps with a single code base. Download it for free now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=111408631iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] Monetary Authority for Bitcoin
I've got a better idea. Ben Bernake needs a new job. Let's just let him set the block reward. On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 5:23 PM, Jameson Lopp jameson.l...@gmail.com wrote: To piggyback on Jeff, Any proposal that is going to add reliance upon data from third parties outside of the Bitcoin network itself is likely going to be rejected outright. This opens far too many potential vulnerabilities. The exchanges that are kept track of could be hard coded into Bitcoin or the miner could choose, how this works is not something I'm personally focused on. Yeah... you can't just gloss over a little detail like that. There must be consensus between the miners, otherwise a solved block will be rejected by a miner's peers. -- Jameson Lopp Software Engineer Bronto Software, Inc On 12/09/2013 06:10 PM, Jeff Garzik wrote: On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 7:23 PM, Ryan Carboni ryan.jc...@gmail.com wrote: It is not a violation of the trust of those holding the currency. Many people bought Bitcoin in the hopes that it's value in the relation of other currencies will increase, not because there's a fixed money supply. The majority of people using Bitcoin as a currency in exchange for real goods are using the exchanges. Your proposal has been met with widespread laughter. Were I not ill with the flu, mockery would ensue as well. -- Sponsored by Intel(R) XDK Develop, test and display web and hybrid apps with a single code base. Download it for free now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=111408631iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development -- Sponsored by Intel(R) XDK Develop, test and display web and hybrid apps with a single code base. Download it for free now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=111408631iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] Monetary Authority for Bitcoin
Bitcoin is made of many parts, yes, but not all parts were developed simultaneously. On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 2:06 PM, Gavin Andresen gavinandre...@gmail.comwrote: On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 8:01 AM, Ryan Carboni ryan.jc...@gmail.comwrote: The exchanges that are kept track of could be hard coded into Bitcoin or the miner could choose, how this works is not something I'm personally focused on. That is like saying We need a way to travel around the world quickly. There will be an anti-gravity technology; how this works is not something I'm personally focused on. Or, in other words, you are ignoring exactly the sticky, difficult problem that would have to be solved for your proposal to have any chance of working. -- -- Gavin Andresen -- Sponsored by Intel(R) XDK Develop, test and display web and hybrid apps with a single code base. Download it for free now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=111408631iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] Monetary Authority for Bitcoin
You're just closed minded. On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 3:10 PM, Jeff Garzik jgar...@bitpay.com wrote: On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 7:23 PM, Ryan Carboni ryan.jc...@gmail.com wrote: It is not a violation of the trust of those holding the currency. Many people bought Bitcoin in the hopes that it's value in the relation of other currencies will increase, not because there's a fixed money supply. The majority of people using Bitcoin as a currency in exchange for real goods are using the exchanges. Your proposal has been met with widespread laughter. Were I not ill with the flu, mockery would ensue as well. -- Jeff Garzik Bitcoin core developer and open source evangelist BitPay, Inc. https://bitpay.com/ -- Sponsored by Intel(R) XDK Develop, test and display web and hybrid apps with a single code base. Download it for free now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=111408631iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] Monetary Authority for Bitcoin
Ryan Carboni wrote: Bitcoin lacks a Central Bank. This is a feature, not a bug. Also, this is offtopic. Political debate is thataway -. bitcoin-development is for development and technical discussion. -- Sponsored by Intel(R) XDK Develop, test and display web and hybrid apps with a single code base. Download it for free now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=111408631iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] Monetary Authority for Bitcoin
+1 On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 2:06 PM, Gavin Andresen gavinandre...@gmail.comwrote: On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 8:01 AM, Ryan Carboni ryan.jc...@gmail.comwrote: The exchanges that are kept track of could be hard coded into Bitcoin or the miner could choose, how this works is not something I'm personally focused on. That is like saying We need a way to travel around the world quickly. There will be an anti-gravity technology; how this works is not something I'm personally focused on. Or, in other words, you are ignoring exactly the sticky, difficult problem that would have to be solved for your proposal to have any chance of working. -- -- Gavin Andresen -- Sponsored by Intel(R) XDK Develop, test and display web and hybrid apps with a single code base. Download it for free now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=111408631iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development -- Sponsored by Intel(R) XDK Develop, test and display web and hybrid apps with a single code base. Download it for free now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=111408631iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
