Re: [Blackbelly] Livestock and predators
You are very right that it is a labor of love. I do look at it that way. Starting this farm has also reversed my aging by a decade, and reversed my bank account similarly. I do get frustrated at the high cost of hay, feed, and predator control, but in the end, am very happy we embarked on this endeavor, despite the work, the cold, the cost, and the time invested. Gregory A. Hession J.D. P.O. Box 543 93 Summer Street Thorndike, MA 01079 (413) 289-9164 greg.hess...@massoutrage.com www.massoutrage.com On 5/4/2014 8:37 PM, Elizabeth Radi wrote: Recover your immense costs? Probably never. Isn't it a labor of love? Especially for us, with the cost of hay. We hope that some day we break even. But our son says it keeps us young, so there are health benefits. That being said, we have free ranging chickens, guineas, and also raise dairy goats and sheep. Have never lost anything to a predator, since 1999. the livestock guard dog team, (Great Pyr intact male, and Anatolian/pyr cross spayed female), love the goats and sheep, and we can always tell when a birth is imminent by the dogs. We have 10 fenced acres, and raised the gates for the dogs to shimmy under to get to each pasture. I do use lamb jugs when sheep have their babies, as Moms will challenge the dogs. And don't like their babes messed with. Liz Radi Nubian goats and Katahdin Hair Sheep Nunn, Colorado 970-716-7218 idaralpaca.blogspot.com --- greg.hess...@massoutrage.com wrote: From: Gregory A. Hession J.D. greg.hess...@massoutrage.com To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Livestock and predators Date: Sun, 04 May 2014 19:10:37 -0400 We have two guardian dogs, who bark at predators randomly throughout every night. So far, so good; We have not lost any stock. We also have lots of fences with electric strand toppers. But the costs involved in all of these protective measures begs the question: How are we ever going to recover our immense costs in this farming enterprise? Gregory A. Hession J.D. P.O. Box 543 93 Summer Street Thorndike, MA 01079 (413) 289-9164 greg.hess...@massoutrage.com www.massoutrage.com On 5/4/2014 7:03 PM, Eileen Breedlove wrote: We only have seven acres and we have three guardian dogs. One for ewes, one for rams, and a third for a breeding group or sheep isolated for whatever reason. We are the only farm in our neighborhood who has not lost livestock to predators (we have cougar, coyote, bobcat, and eagles), and all our dogs have battle scars. The dogs collectively eat 4-5 lbs of dog food per day depending on the weather, but we love them. The ewes also go in the barn at night, and we shut them in during lambing (that's actually so we don't have to chase down newborn lambs in the pasture!) If we are only using two pastures we double up the dogs in one pasture. The third dog is also very helpful if we decide to have puppies. Eileen Breedlove -Original Message- From: blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info [mailto:blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info] On Behalf Of blackbelly-requ...@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2014 3:01 PM To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: Blackbelly Digest, Vol 10, Issue 32 Send Blackbelly mailing list submissions to blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.in fo or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to blackbelly-requ...@lists.blackbellysheep.info You can reach the person managing the list at blackbelly-ow...@lists.blackbellysheep.info When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of Blackbelly digest... Today's Topics: 1. Anti coyote fence ideas (Michael Smith) 2. Re: Anti coyote fence ideas (Jann Bach) 3. Re: Anti coyote fence ideas (Rusty Iron Acres) -- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 4 May 2014 08:50:45 -0700 From: Michael Smith mwsmotorspo...@gmail.com To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: [Blackbelly] Anti coyote fence ideas Message-ID: 6c22c670-463a-48b0-89be-6d3faa5da...@gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I finally saw it as some list-members described: a full grown coyote run up to my 4.5 foot tall fence and just scale it. It was last night after a previous night coyote attack that killed my two beloved miniature Pygmy goats and harmed my toe other pygmys. The sheep were unscathed. I know lessons in shepherding are hard-earned and I had been thinking about coyotes considering last years June attack. This year I thought I was being safer. Had the animals in the central pasture--which has no holes in the fence, the dog was in the pasture next door. I had been letting her in with the ewes and goats
[Blackbelly] Livestock and predators
We only have seven acres and we have three guardian dogs. One for ewes, one for rams, and a third for a breeding group or sheep isolated for whatever reason. We are the only farm in our neighborhood who has not lost livestock to predators (we have cougar, coyote, bobcat, and eagles), and all our dogs have battle scars. The dogs collectively eat 4-5 lbs of dog food per day depending on the weather, but we love them. The ewes also go in the barn at night, and we shut them in during lambing (that's actually so we don't have to chase down newborn lambs in the pasture!) If we are only using two pastures we double up the dogs in one pasture. The third dog is also very helpful if we decide to have puppies. Eileen Breedlove -Original Message- From: blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info [mailto:blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info] On Behalf Of blackbelly-requ...@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2014 3:01 PM To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: Blackbelly Digest, Vol 10, Issue 32 Send Blackbelly mailing list submissions to blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.in fo or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to blackbelly-requ...@lists.blackbellysheep.info You can reach the person managing the list at blackbelly-ow...@lists.blackbellysheep.info When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of Blackbelly digest... Today's Topics: 1. Anti coyote fence ideas (Michael Smith) 2. Re: Anti coyote fence ideas (Jann Bach) 3. Re: Anti coyote fence ideas (Rusty Iron Acres) -- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 4 May 2014 08:50:45 -0700 From: Michael Smith mwsmotorspo...@gmail.com To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: [Blackbelly] Anti coyote fence ideas Message-ID: 6c22c670-463a-48b0-89be-6d3faa5da...@gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I finally saw it as some list-members described: a full grown coyote run up to my 4.5 foot tall fence and just scale it. It was last night after a previous night coyote attack that killed my two beloved miniature Pygmy goats and harmed my toe other pygmys. The sheep were unscathed. I know lessons in shepherding are hard-earned and I had been thinking about coyotes considering last years June attack. This year I thought I was being safer. Had the animals in the central pasture--which has no holes in the fence, the dog was in the pasture next door. I had been letting her in with the ewes and goats at night, but stopped doing it, since I have two ewes in a paddock that are ready to lamb and I was trying to not stress them out too much. That was a mistake. So, after cleaning up the mess yesterday and figuring out one goat has a limp and the other has a partially paralyzed tongue, I decided to move Sheila, our dog's home, permanently with the ewes and goats. I have one of those 1000 candle LED flashlights (which, while costing around $80-100, I highly recommend--they go forever and look like daylight ) and went out around 10pm as I had also at 9:00 and 9:30. This time, I was just in time to hear Sheila growl and see a fully grown coyote lope up to the fence and use just a few steps to scale it and hop over. Will simply making the fence straight and higher help? Or I was thinking of doing something like prison fencing where the fence angles at a 45 degree up higher and makes it so a climbing coyote would be almost upside down at the top. http://wolfdogproject.com/fence/leanin2.jpg Seems easier and safer than an electrical system along the top edge, which I am thinking the coyotes might not mind a shock, if there's a good meal Having the dog in there will certainly help, and I plan to try to lock the animals in the smaller gated paddocks at night and also, amend their paddock fencing so they go to the roof. Basically a box, for sleeping in. The other question, can people with a single burro or llama actually claim they have never sustained an attack after getting the larger animal? -MIchael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies Sent from my iPad -- Message: 2 Date: Sun, 4 May 2014 12:21:47 -0600 From: Jann Bach mtnrdgr...@aol.com To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Cc: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Anti coyote fence ideas Message-ID: 39787586-218a-4c26-b081-857d77bc6...@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I put a 4 pvc pipe on the top of the fence. Makes it nearly impossible to scale as they have no traction to grab the top of the fence. I can further elaborate if anyone is
Re: [Blackbelly] Livestock and predators
We have two guardian dogs, who bark at predators randomly throughout every night. So far, so good; We have not lost any stock. We also have lots of fences with electric strand toppers. But the costs involved in all of these protective measures begs the question: How are we ever going to recover our immense costs in this farming enterprise? Gregory A. Hession J.D. P.O. Box 543 93 Summer Street Thorndike, MA 01079 (413) 289-9164 greg.hess...@massoutrage.com www.massoutrage.com On 5/4/2014 7:03 PM, Eileen Breedlove wrote: We only have seven acres and we have three guardian dogs. One for ewes, one for rams, and a third for a breeding group or sheep isolated for whatever reason. We are the only farm in our neighborhood who has not lost livestock to predators (we have cougar, coyote, bobcat, and eagles), and all our dogs have battle scars. The dogs collectively eat 4-5 lbs of dog food per day depending on the weather, but we love them. The ewes also go in the barn at night, and we shut them in during lambing (that's actually so we don't have to chase down newborn lambs in the pasture!) If we are only using two pastures we double up the dogs in one pasture. The third dog is also very helpful if we decide to have puppies. Eileen Breedlove -Original Message- From: blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info [mailto:blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info] On Behalf Of blackbelly-requ...@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2014 3:01 PM To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: Blackbelly Digest, Vol 10, Issue 32 Send Blackbelly mailing list submissions to blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.in fo or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to blackbelly-requ...@lists.blackbellysheep.info You can reach the person managing the list at blackbelly-ow...@lists.blackbellysheep.info When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of Blackbelly digest... Today's Topics: 1. Anti coyote fence ideas (Michael Smith) 2. Re: Anti coyote fence ideas (Jann Bach) 3. Re: Anti coyote fence ideas (Rusty Iron Acres) -- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 4 May 2014 08:50:45 -0700 From: Michael Smith mwsmotorspo...@gmail.com To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: [Blackbelly] Anti coyote fence ideas Message-ID: 6c22c670-463a-48b0-89be-6d3faa5da...@gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I finally saw it as some list-members described: a full grown coyote run up to my 4.5 foot tall fence and just scale it. It was last night after a previous night coyote attack that killed my two beloved miniature Pygmy goats and harmed my toe other pygmys. The sheep were unscathed. I know lessons in shepherding are hard-earned and I had been thinking about coyotes considering last years June attack. This year I thought I was being safer. Had the animals in the central pasture--which has no holes in the fence, the dog was in the pasture next door. I had been letting her in with the ewes and goats at night, but stopped doing it, since I have two ewes in a paddock that are ready to lamb and I was trying to not stress them out too much. That was a mistake. So, after cleaning up the mess yesterday and figuring out one goat has a limp and the other has a partially paralyzed tongue, I decided to move Sheila, our dog's home, permanently with the ewes and goats. I have one of those 1000 candle LED flashlights (which, while costing around $80-100, I highly recommend--they go forever and look like daylight ) and went out around 10pm as I had also at 9:00 and 9:30. This time, I was just in time to hear Sheila growl and see a fully grown coyote lope up to the fence and use just a few steps to scale it and hop over. Will simply making the fence straight and higher help? Or I was thinking of doing something like prison fencing where the fence angles at a 45 degree up higher and makes it so a climbing coyote would be almost upside down at the top. http://wolfdogproject.com/fence/leanin2.jpg Seems easier and safer than an electrical system along the top edge, which I am thinking the coyotes might not mind a shock, if there's a good meal Having the dog in there will certainly help, and I plan to try to lock the animals in the smaller gated paddocks at night and also, amend their paddock fencing so they go to the roof. Basically a box, for sleeping in. The other question, can people with a single burro or llama actually claim they have never sustained an attack after getting the larger animal? -MIchael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies Sent from my iPad -- Message: 2 Date: Sun, 4 May 2014 12:21:47 -0600 From: Jann
Re: [Blackbelly] Livestock and predators
Recover your immense costs? Probably never. Isn't it a labor of love? Especially for us, with the cost of hay. We hope that some day we break even. But our son says it keeps us young, so there are health benefits. That being said, we have free ranging chickens, guineas, and also raise dairy goats and sheep. Have never lost anything to a predator, since 1999. the livestock guard dog team, (Great Pyr intact male, and Anatolian/pyr cross spayed female), love the goats and sheep, and we can always tell when a birth is imminent by the dogs. We have 10 fenced acres, and raised the gates for the dogs to shimmy under to get to each pasture. I do use lamb jugs when sheep have their babies, as Moms will challenge the dogs. And don't like their babes messed with. Liz Radi Nubian goats and Katahdin Hair Sheep Nunn, Colorado 970-716-7218 idaralpaca.blogspot.com --- greg.hess...@massoutrage.com wrote: From: Gregory A. Hession J.D. greg.hess...@massoutrage.com To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Livestock and predators Date: Sun, 04 May 2014 19:10:37 -0400 We have two guardian dogs, who bark at predators randomly throughout every night. So far, so good; We have not lost any stock. We also have lots of fences with electric strand toppers. But the costs involved in all of these protective measures begs the question: How are we ever going to recover our immense costs in this farming enterprise? Gregory A. Hession J.D. P.O. Box 543 93 Summer Street Thorndike, MA 01079 (413) 289-9164 greg.hess...@massoutrage.com www.massoutrage.com On 5/4/2014 7:03 PM, Eileen Breedlove wrote: We only have seven acres and we have three guardian dogs. One for ewes, one for rams, and a third for a breeding group or sheep isolated for whatever reason. We are the only farm in our neighborhood who has not lost livestock to predators (we have cougar, coyote, bobcat, and eagles), and all our dogs have battle scars. The dogs collectively eat 4-5 lbs of dog food per day depending on the weather, but we love them. The ewes also go in the barn at night, and we shut them in during lambing (that's actually so we don't have to chase down newborn lambs in the pasture!) If we are only using two pastures we double up the dogs in one pasture. The third dog is also very helpful if we decide to have puppies. Eileen Breedlove -Original Message- From: blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info [mailto:blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info] On Behalf Of blackbelly-requ...@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2014 3:01 PM To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: Blackbelly Digest, Vol 10, Issue 32 Send Blackbelly mailing list submissions to blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.in fo or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to blackbelly-requ...@lists.blackbellysheep.info You can reach the person managing the list at blackbelly-ow...@lists.blackbellysheep.info When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of Blackbelly digest... Today's Topics: 1. Anti coyote fence ideas (Michael Smith) 2. Re: Anti coyote fence ideas (Jann Bach) 3. Re: Anti coyote fence ideas (Rusty Iron Acres) -- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 4 May 2014 08:50:45 -0700 From: Michael Smith mwsmotorspo...@gmail.com To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: [Blackbelly] Anti coyote fence ideas Message-ID: 6c22c670-463a-48b0-89be-6d3faa5da...@gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I finally saw it as some list-members described: a full grown coyote run up to my 4.5 foot tall fence and just scale it. It was last night after a previous night coyote attack that killed my two beloved miniature Pygmy goats and harmed my toe other pygmys. The sheep were unscathed. I know lessons in shepherding are hard-earned and I had been thinking about coyotes considering last years June attack. This year I thought I was being safer. Had the animals in the central pasture--which has no holes in the fence, the dog was in the pasture next door. I had been letting her in with the ewes and goats at night, but stopped doing it, since I have two ewes in a paddock that are ready to lamb and I was trying to not stress them out too much. That was a mistake. So, after cleaning up the mess yesterday and figuring out one goat has a limp and the other has a partially paralyzed tongue, I decided to move Sheila, our dog's home, permanently with the ewes and goats. I have one of those 1000 candle LED flashlights (which, while costing around $80-100, I highly recommend--they go forever and look like
