Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine

2018-02-20 Thread Paul Lemm
Hi,


I didn't realise there was a group for developing audio games, thanks for the 
link.

Paul
-Original Message-
From: blind-gamers@groups.io [mailto:blind-gamers@groups.io] On Behalf Of 
Damien Garwood
Sent: 20 February 2018 16:38
To: blind-gamers@groups.io
Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine

Hi there,
You're right. My apologies. While game engines are used for making games it is 
also important to realise that some technical knowledge of programming, or at 
the very least game building, is required for discussions like that.
For those interested in technical discussions of creating games, I set up the 
DAG (Development of Accessible Games) list (groups.io/g/dag). I propose we keep 
technical discussions on that list and use this list simply for game play 
discussions. Obviously that's up to Shane and whoever else moderates this list, 
but I think that will help to separate the heavy and intense from the light and 
breezy.
Cheers.
Damien.
-Original Message-
From: Zaire Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 3:20 PM
To: blind-gamers@groups.io
Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine

Hay blind-gamers, I’ve been quietly listening to game engine talk for the last 
two or three days. I think my brain’s gonna explode Lol. All this talk about 
the guts of building a game. I’m just a gamer who’s surprised that Liam’s not 
in any of these conversations Lol. Keep creating and could you please make this 
stuff easier to understand Lol. Laughing at all the technical stuff going on. 
In closing, I wonder how A heroes Call can be so good and yet you have to 
remember all that stuff. I was lost long after the first message of this thread.
> On Feb 19, 2018, at 11:28 AM, john <jpcarnemo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Our other hope is that an update to BGT comes out.
> We know (because of VG storm) that some work has been done on it. 
> Maybe we'll get lucky.
>
> --
> From: "Damien Garwood" <dam...@dcpendleton.plus.com>
> Sent: Monday, February 19, 2018 10:59
> To: <blind-gamers@groups.io>
> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine
>
> Hi,
> Oh, I thought you meant have BGT as a library. If you're talking about 
> building a whole new library from scratch, obviously that would take a 
> lot of time, effort, and advanced programming expertise. Given that 
> I've made a resolution to try to switch to C++ and I can't even do a 
> basic timer yet...Let's just say that I'm currently feeling way beyond 
> my depths when it comes to managing memory and threads, so I'm a 
> complete alien when it comes to writing audio engines and looking for 
> pathfinders.
> As for porting JavaScript libraries to C++. That'll be harder than you 
> think, since JavaScripts does a lot of the deep memory process for you 
> to start with. There also seems to be a few different JS dialects, 
> like Vanilla, Node, Typescript etc.
> Those who have had much more experience with other programming 
> languages than BGT, either because of work or programming classes etc, 
> will more or less know everything they need to to learn any language 
> and get along well with it.
> Considering I spent the better part of five years parroting from VB6 
> and AutoIt code to get something workable without actually 
> understanding anything, then actually being able to understand BGT to 
> such a point that I've been relying on that for about five years, it's a lot 
> harder.
> 1. High level to low level. No more music.play() for me until I can 
> write a library that can do that for me. Hello multithreading, streams 
> and buffers, dynamic memory allocation...Ugh. Already I feel queasy...
> 2. Single click compilation to heavy build manuals. Run Make. Run Scons. 
> Run
> blah blah blah. Install this. Delete that. Move /blah to /bleh. Oh, 
> and we're not going to tell you how to do this in Windows because 
> we're Unix geeks. If it doesn't work, tough luck squire.
> 3. Self contained to resolving dependencies. The fact that BGT had all 
> its resources in one application and could compile in a similar 
> manner, including pack files, is just astounding. None of that with C++.
> 4. Difficulty porting. Short of literally getting BGT as a library and 
> writing a C++ wrapper, there is no chance of porting my literally 
> dozens of BGT modules straight over to C++ and have it work. That 
> would just be too much to ask.
> So. Looks like I have a twenty year headache sentence ahead of me 
> while I learn, or at least attempt to learn, as much technical crap as 
> I can possibly retain in what I currently feel is a rather small and 
> inadequate brain, and then try to somehow port this mess over.
> Cheers.
> Damien.
> -Original Message-
> From: Jude DaShiell
> Sent:

Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine

2018-02-20 Thread Damien Garwood

Hi there,
You're right. My apologies. While game engines are used for making games it 
is also important to realise that some technical knowledge of programming, 
or at the very least game building, is required for discussions like that.
For those interested in technical discussions of creating games, I set up 
the DAG (Development of Accessible Games) list (groups.io/g/dag). I propose 
we keep technical discussions on that list and use this list simply for game 
play discussions. Obviously that's up to Shane and whoever else moderates 
this list, but I think that will help to separate the heavy and intense from 
the light and breezy.

Cheers.
Damien.
-Original Message- 
From: Zaire Johnson

Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 3:20 PM
To: blind-gamers@groups.io
Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine

Hay blind-gamers, I’ve been quietly listening to game engine talk for the 
last two or three days. I think my brain’s gonna explode Lol. All this talk 
about the guts of building a game. I’m just a gamer who’s surprised that 
Liam’s not in any of these conversations Lol. Keep creating and could you 
please make this stuff easier to understand Lol. Laughing at all the 
technical stuff going on. In closing, I wonder how A heroes Call can be so 
good and yet you have to remember all that stuff. I was lost long after the 
first message of this thread.

On Feb 19, 2018, at 11:28 AM, john <jpcarnemo...@gmail.com> wrote:

Our other hope is that an update to BGT comes out.
We know (because of VG storm) that some work has been done on it. Maybe
we'll get lucky.

--
From: "Damien Garwood" <dam...@dcpendleton.plus.com>
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2018 10:59
To: <blind-gamers@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine

Hi,
Oh, I thought you meant have BGT as a library. If you're talking about
building a whole new library from scratch, obviously that would take a lot
of time, effort, and advanced programming expertise. Given that I've made 
a

resolution to try to switch to C++ and I can't even do a basic timer
yet...Let's just say that I'm currently feeling way beyond my depths when 
it
comes to managing memory and threads, so I'm a complete alien when it 
comes

to writing audio engines and looking for pathfinders.
As for porting JavaScript libraries to C++. That'll be harder than you
think, since JavaScripts does a lot of the deep memory process for you to
start with. There also seems to be a few different JS dialects, like
Vanilla, Node, Typescript etc.
Those who have had much more experience with other programming languages
than BGT, either because of work or programming classes etc, will more or
less know everything they need to to learn any language and get along well
with it.
Considering I spent the better part of five years parroting from VB6 and
AutoIt code to get something workable without actually understanding
anything, then actually being able to understand BGT to such a point that
I've been relying on that for about five years, it's a lot harder.
1. High level to low level. No more music.play() for me until I can write 
a
library that can do that for me. Hello multithreading, streams and 
buffers,

dynamic memory allocation...Ugh. Already I feel queasy...
2. Single click compilation to heavy build manuals. Run Make. Run Scons. 
Run

blah blah blah. Install this. Delete that. Move /blah to /bleh. Oh, and
we're not going to tell you how to do this in Windows because we're Unix
geeks. If it doesn't work, tough luck squire.
3. Self contained to resolving dependencies. The fact that BGT had all its
resources in one application and could compile in a similar manner,
including pack files, is just astounding. None of that with C++.
4. Difficulty porting. Short of literally getting BGT as a library and
writing a C++ wrapper, there is no chance of porting my literally dozens 
of

BGT modules straight over to C++ and have it work. That would just be too
much to ask.
So. Looks like I have a twenty year headache sentence ahead of me while I
learn, or at least attempt to learn, as much technical crap as I can
possibly retain in what I currently feel is a rather small and inadequate
brain, and then try to somehow port this mess over.
Cheers.
Damien.
-Original Message- 
From: Jude DaShiell

Sent: Monday, February 19, 2018 3:37 PM
To: blind-gamers@groups.io
Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine

No you wouldn't, just add stuff to the library that clear the crashes
and make the whole library better over time.  The stuff from bgt could
be a sbase then build on that base.  Sounds like a long-term project for
a team of programmers totaling more than one.  Best not put a team like
that together until all candidates have done a few fishing trips
together to figure out who is and is not compatible enough to work
together though.


On Mon, 19 Feb 2018, Damien Garwood wrote:

Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2018 0

Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine

2018-02-20 Thread Zaire Johnson
Hay blind-gamers, I’ve been quietly listening to game engine talk for the last 
two or three days. I think my brain’s gonna explode Lol. All this talk about 
the guts of building a game. I’m just a gamer who’s surprised that Liam’s not 
in any of these conversations Lol. Keep creating and could you please make this 
stuff easier to understand Lol. Laughing at all the technical stuff going on. 
In closing, I wonder how A heroes Call can be so good and yet you have to 
remember all that stuff. I was lost long after the first message of this 
thread. 
> On Feb 19, 2018, at 11:28 AM, john <jpcarnemo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Our other hope is that an update to BGT comes out.
> We know (because of VG storm) that some work has been done on it. Maybe 
> we'll get lucky.
> 
> --
> From: "Damien Garwood" <dam...@dcpendleton.plus.com>
> Sent: Monday, February 19, 2018 10:59
> To: <blind-gamers@groups.io>
> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine
> 
> Hi,
> Oh, I thought you meant have BGT as a library. If you're talking about
> building a whole new library from scratch, obviously that would take a lot
> of time, effort, and advanced programming expertise. Given that I've made a
> resolution to try to switch to C++ and I can't even do a basic timer
> yet...Let's just say that I'm currently feeling way beyond my depths when it
> comes to managing memory and threads, so I'm a complete alien when it comes
> to writing audio engines and looking for pathfinders.
> As for porting JavaScript libraries to C++. That'll be harder than you
> think, since JavaScripts does a lot of the deep memory process for you to
> start with. There also seems to be a few different JS dialects, like
> Vanilla, Node, Typescript etc.
> Those who have had much more experience with other programming languages
> than BGT, either because of work or programming classes etc, will more or
> less know everything they need to to learn any language and get along well
> with it.
> Considering I spent the better part of five years parroting from VB6 and
> AutoIt code to get something workable without actually understanding
> anything, then actually being able to understand BGT to such a point that
> I've been relying on that for about five years, it's a lot harder.
> 1. High level to low level. No more music.play() for me until I can write a
> library that can do that for me. Hello multithreading, streams and buffers,
> dynamic memory allocation...Ugh. Already I feel queasy...
> 2. Single click compilation to heavy build manuals. Run Make. Run Scons. Run
> blah blah blah. Install this. Delete that. Move /blah to /bleh. Oh, and
> we're not going to tell you how to do this in Windows because we're Unix
> geeks. If it doesn't work, tough luck squire.
> 3. Self contained to resolving dependencies. The fact that BGT had all its
> resources in one application and could compile in a similar manner,
> including pack files, is just astounding. None of that with C++.
> 4. Difficulty porting. Short of literally getting BGT as a library and
> writing a C++ wrapper, there is no chance of porting my literally dozens of
> BGT modules straight over to C++ and have it work. That would just be too
> much to ask.
> So. Looks like I have a twenty year headache sentence ahead of me while I
> learn, or at least attempt to learn, as much technical crap as I can
> possibly retain in what I currently feel is a rather small and inadequate
> brain, and then try to somehow port this mess over.
> Cheers.
> Damien.
> -Original Message- 
> From: Jude DaShiell
> Sent: Monday, February 19, 2018 3:37 PM
> To: blind-gamers@groups.io
> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine
> 
> No you wouldn't, just add stuff to the library that clear the crashes
> and make the whole library better over time.  The stuff from bgt could
> be a sbase then build on that base.  Sounds like a long-term project for
> a team of programmers totaling more than one.  Best not put a team like
> that together until all candidates have done a few fishing trips
> together to figure out who is and is not compatible enough to work
> together though.
> 
>> On Mon, 19 Feb 2018, Damien Garwood wrote:
>> 
>> Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2018 08:34:39
>> From: Damien Garwood <dam...@dcpendleton.plus.com>
>> Reply-To: blind-gamers@groups.io
>> To: blind-gamers@groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine
>> 
>> Hi,
>> Even if that were the case, it would still have its audio limitations,
>> HTTPS crashes and UDP-only networking. So we would still end up having to
>> ransack the internet just to find something decent. But yeah. I could
&

Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine

2018-02-20 Thread john
I haven't benchmarked python extensively due to the simple fact I was never 
able to get it to easily compile an executable (bgt, hi there).
That said, it really does have a huge amount of overhead, and those python 
programmers I've heard discuss it mention that a lot as the major 
disadvantage.

--
From: "Damien Garwood" <dam...@dcpendleton.plus.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 0:57
To: <blind-gamers@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine

Hi John,
I initially thought that about Python, until I used NVDA.
Granted, there is a part of NVDA that is programmed in C++, but a good 90%
of it is Python-driven, and I don't find it slow in the slightest.
While I do agree that Python programs will naturally be slower due to it
being an interpreted language, the majority of slowdowns in applications is
your implementation, and I'm sure I remember the SoundRTS developer saying
that the implementation could do with a bit of tidying up.
Some interpreters do better than others. AutoIt is slower than BGT, BGT is
slower than Python, and Python is apparently 15% slower than straight
Assembly.
Cheers.
Damien.
-Original Message- 
From: john
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 2:17 AM
To: blind-gamers@groups.io
Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine

Python has numerous issues, not the least of which is its huge amount of
overhead and performance.
An example: Sound RTS is written in python. Its an awesome game, but
anything stressful (large maps) bogs down badly.

--
From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.ever...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2018 21:09
To: <blind-gamers@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine

The bgt concepts are quite old made with directx 8 tech.

Python seems to be the bgt of the future at least it could be, nvda is
after all a python 2 application, and it maybe a python3 one.

So if python2 can manage something like a screen reader or python itself
then a game should be no problem.




On 20/02/2018 12:00 a.m., Rynhardt Kruger wrote:
> The BGT argument is one I have scene a few times on this list now. It
> seams
> what we need then is all the functions of BGT wrapped up in a nice
> platform
> independent library. It could be written in something like portable C,
> with
> all the platform dependent stuff in platform specific modules, and
> bindings
> for different languages generated with Swig or something. Swig is quite
> good at generating bindings for many programming languages.
>
> Note: I'm not volunteering to write it, just want to get the debate going.
> Thoughts?
>
> Rynhardt
>
> On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 5:11 PM, Damien Garwood
> <dam...@dcpendleton.plus.com
>> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> BGT might come with many conveniences. But it also lacks many others. It
>> also isn’t indicative of real world programming. Once you realise BGT’s
>> limitations and want to move away from it, it’s much harder to do so
>> because you end up relying on it. Especially if you’re a programming
>> newbie
>> and don’t have a clue how to write audio engines, let alone audio engines
>> that can play multiple file types, whether packed or on disk, whether
>> encrypted or open. Not to mention keyboard, mouse, joystick support,
>> screenreader and SAPI support, timers, pathfinders, combination
>> generators
>> and calendars. The way I see it, scripting with something like BGT is
>> like
>> having an overprotective clingy parent that just won’t let go, whereas
>> programming something like C++ or Python wants you to bend down and kiss
>> its furry rosy smelling derriere before you can get it to work.
>> Talking from experience here.
>> Cheers.
>> Damien.
>>
>> *From:* Josh Kennedy <joshknnd1...@gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, February 18, 2018 2:54 PM
>> *To:* blind-gamers@groups.io
>> *Subject:* Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine
>>
>> You could use BGT blind game maker toolkit, from BlastBay studios. It's
>> free.
>>
>>
>>








 


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Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine

2018-02-20 Thread Shaun Everiss



one thing autoit and bgt are both detected as viruses python isn't.




On 20/02/2018 6:57 p.m., Damien Garwood wrote:

Hi John,
I initially thought that about Python, until I used NVDA.
Granted, there is a part of NVDA that is programmed in C++, but a good 
90% of it is Python-driven, and I don't find it slow in the slightest.
While I do agree that Python programs will naturally be slower due to 
it being an interpreted language, the majority of slowdowns in 
applications is your implementation, and I'm sure I remember the 
SoundRTS developer saying that the implementation could do with a bit 
of tidying up.
Some interpreters do better than others. AutoIt is slower than BGT, 
BGT is slower than Python, and Python is apparently 15% slower than 
straight Assembly.

Cheers.
Damien.
-Original Message- From: john
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 2:17 AM
To: blind-gamers@groups.io
Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine

Python has numerous issues, not the least of which is its huge amount of
overhead and performance.
An example: Sound RTS is written in python. Its an awesome game, but
anything stressful (large maps) bogs down badly.

--
From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.ever...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2018 21:09
To: <blind-gamers@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine

The bgt concepts are quite old made with directx 8 tech.

Python seems to be the bgt of the future at least it could be, nvda is
after all a python 2 application, and it maybe a python3 one.

So if python2 can manage something like a screen reader or python itself
then a game should be no problem.




On 20/02/2018 12:00 a.m., Rynhardt Kruger wrote:

The BGT argument is one I have scene a few times on this list now. It
seams
what we need then is all the functions of BGT wrapped up in a nice
platform
independent library. It could be written in something like portable C,
with
all the platform dependent stuff in platform specific modules, and
bindings
for different languages generated with Swig or something. Swig is quite
good at generating bindings for many programming languages.

Note: I'm not volunteering to write it, just want to get the debate 
going.

Thoughts?

Rynhardt

On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 5:11 PM, Damien Garwood
<dam...@dcpendleton.plus.com

wrote:
Hi,
BGT might come with many conveniences. But it also lacks many 
others. It

also isn’t indicative of real world programming. Once you realise BGT’s
limitations and want to move away from it, it’s much harder to do so
because you end up relying on it. Especially if you’re a programming
newbie
and don’t have a clue how to write audio engines, let alone audio 
engines

that can play multiple file types, whether packed or on disk, whether
encrypted or open. Not to mention keyboard, mouse, joystick support,
screenreader and SAPI support, timers, pathfinders, combination
generators
and calendars. The way I see it, scripting with something like BGT is
like
having an overprotective clingy parent that just won’t let go, whereas
programming something like C++ or Python wants you to bend down and 
kiss

its furry rosy smelling derriere before you can get it to work.
Talking from experience here.
Cheers.
Damien.

*From:* Josh Kennedy <joshknnd1...@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Sunday, February 18, 2018 2:54 PM
*To:* blind-gamers@groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine

You could use BGT blind game maker toolkit, from BlastBay studios. It's
free.


















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Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine

2018-02-19 Thread Damien Garwood

Hi John,
I initially thought that about Python, until I used NVDA.
Granted, there is a part of NVDA that is programmed in C++, but a good 90% 
of it is Python-driven, and I don't find it slow in the slightest.
While I do agree that Python programs will naturally be slower due to it 
being an interpreted language, the majority of slowdowns in applications is 
your implementation, and I'm sure I remember the SoundRTS developer saying 
that the implementation could do with a bit of tidying up.
Some interpreters do better than others. AutoIt is slower than BGT, BGT is 
slower than Python, and Python is apparently 15% slower than straight 
Assembly.

Cheers.
Damien.
-Original Message- 
From: john

Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 2:17 AM
To: blind-gamers@groups.io
Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine

Python has numerous issues, not the least of which is its huge amount of
overhead and performance.
An example: Sound RTS is written in python. Its an awesome game, but
anything stressful (large maps) bogs down badly.

--
From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.ever...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2018 21:09
To: <blind-gamers@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine

The bgt concepts are quite old made with directx 8 tech.

Python seems to be the bgt of the future at least it could be, nvda is
after all a python 2 application, and it maybe a python3 one.

So if python2 can manage something like a screen reader or python itself
then a game should be no problem.




On 20/02/2018 12:00 a.m., Rynhardt Kruger wrote:

The BGT argument is one I have scene a few times on this list now. It
seams
what we need then is all the functions of BGT wrapped up in a nice
platform
independent library. It could be written in something like portable C,
with
all the platform dependent stuff in platform specific modules, and
bindings
for different languages generated with Swig or something. Swig is quite
good at generating bindings for many programming languages.

Note: I'm not volunteering to write it, just want to get the debate going.
Thoughts?

Rynhardt

On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 5:11 PM, Damien Garwood
<dam...@dcpendleton.plus.com

wrote:
Hi,
BGT might come with many conveniences. But it also lacks many others. It
also isn’t indicative of real world programming. Once you realise BGT’s
limitations and want to move away from it, it’s much harder to do so
because you end up relying on it. Especially if you’re a programming
newbie
and don’t have a clue how to write audio engines, let alone audio engines
that can play multiple file types, whether packed or on disk, whether
encrypted or open. Not to mention keyboard, mouse, joystick support,
screenreader and SAPI support, timers, pathfinders, combination
generators
and calendars. The way I see it, scripting with something like BGT is
like
having an overprotective clingy parent that just won’t let go, whereas
programming something like C++ or Python wants you to bend down and kiss
its furry rosy smelling derriere before you can get it to work.
Talking from experience here.
Cheers.
Damien.

*From:* Josh Kennedy <joshknnd1...@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Sunday, February 18, 2018 2:54 PM
*To:* blind-gamers@groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine

You could use BGT blind game maker toolkit, from BlastBay studios. It's
free.












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Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine

2018-02-19 Thread john
Python has numerous issues, not the least of which is its huge amount of 
overhead and performance.
An example: Sound RTS is written in python. Its an awesome game, but 
anything stressful (large maps) bogs down badly.

--
From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.ever...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2018 21:09
To: <blind-gamers@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine

The bgt concepts are quite old made with directx 8 tech.

Python seems to be the bgt of the future at least it could be, nvda is
after all a python 2 application, and it maybe a python3 one.

So if python2 can manage something like a screen reader or python itself
then a game should be no problem.




On 20/02/2018 12:00 a.m., Rynhardt Kruger wrote:
> The BGT argument is one I have scene a few times on this list now. It 
> seams
> what we need then is all the functions of BGT wrapped up in a nice 
> platform
> independent library. It could be written in something like portable C, 
> with
> all the platform dependent stuff in platform specific modules, and 
> bindings
> for different languages generated with Swig or something. Swig is quite
> good at generating bindings for many programming languages.
>
> Note: I'm not volunteering to write it, just want to get the debate going.
> Thoughts?
>
> Rynhardt
>
> On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 5:11 PM, Damien Garwood 
> <dam...@dcpendleton.plus.com
>> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> BGT might come with many conveniences. But it also lacks many others. It
>> also isn’t indicative of real world programming. Once you realise BGT’s
>> limitations and want to move away from it, it’s much harder to do so
>> because you end up relying on it. Especially if you’re a programming 
>> newbie
>> and don’t have a clue how to write audio engines, let alone audio engines
>> that can play multiple file types, whether packed or on disk, whether
>> encrypted or open. Not to mention keyboard, mouse, joystick support,
>> screenreader and SAPI support, timers, pathfinders, combination 
>> generators
>> and calendars. The way I see it, scripting with something like BGT is 
>> like
>> having an overprotective clingy parent that just won’t let go, whereas
>> programming something like C++ or Python wants you to bend down and kiss
>> its furry rosy smelling derriere before you can get it to work.
>> Talking from experience here.
>> Cheers.
>> Damien.
>>
>> *From:* Josh Kennedy <joshknnd1...@gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, February 18, 2018 2:54 PM
>> *To:* blind-gamers@groups.io
>> *Subject:* Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine
>>
>> You could use BGT blind game maker toolkit, from BlastBay studios. It's
>> free.
>>
>>
>>


 


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Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine

2018-02-19 Thread Shaun Everiss

The bgt concepts are quite old made with directx 8 tech.

Python seems to be the bgt of the future at least it could be, nvda is 
after all a python 2 application, and it maybe a python3 one.


So if python2 can manage something like a screen reader or python itself 
then a game should be no problem.





On 20/02/2018 12:00 a.m., Rynhardt Kruger wrote:

The BGT argument is one I have scene a few times on this list now. It seams
what we need then is all the functions of BGT wrapped up in a nice platform
independent library. It could be written in something like portable C, with
all the platform dependent stuff in platform specific modules, and bindings
for different languages generated with Swig or something. Swig is quite
good at generating bindings for many programming languages.

Note: I'm not volunteering to write it, just want to get the debate going.
Thoughts?

Rynhardt

On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 5:11 PM, Damien Garwood <dam...@dcpendleton.plus.com

wrote:
Hi,
BGT might come with many conveniences. But it also lacks many others. It
also isn’t indicative of real world programming. Once you realise BGT’s
limitations and want to move away from it, it’s much harder to do so
because you end up relying on it. Especially if you’re a programming newbie
and don’t have a clue how to write audio engines, let alone audio engines
that can play multiple file types, whether packed or on disk, whether
encrypted or open. Not to mention keyboard, mouse, joystick support,
screenreader and SAPI support, timers, pathfinders, combination generators
and calendars. The way I see it, scripting with something like BGT is like
having an overprotective clingy parent that just won’t let go, whereas
programming something like C++ or Python wants you to bend down and kiss
its furry rosy smelling derriere before you can get it to work.
Talking from experience here.
Cheers.
Damien.

*From:* Josh Kennedy <joshknnd1...@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Sunday, February 18, 2018 2:54 PM
*To:* blind-gamers@groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine

You could use BGT blind game maker toolkit, from BlastBay studios. It's
free.






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Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine

2018-02-19 Thread Damien Garwood

Hi John,
Even if that were to be the case, BGT is a game engine on top of an 
interpreted scripting engine. So if, all of a sudden you wanted to be able 
to make applications as well as games, or large games that need more 
resources than BGT/AngelScript can handle, or need a lot more speed accuracy 
than BGT can provide (especially thanks to AngelScript's garbage collector 
which seems to steal most of a BGT game's valuable time and energy), then 
you'd be facing the same situation. Trying to switch away from BGT without a 
clue on how or where to start only to find that you feel tied to it.
While BGT takes 27 seconds to create a 500 by 500 by 500 array, C can do the 
same thing in less than a second because it's running machine code and 
you're telling it to directly access memory. Of course it would be a memory 
hogger, especially if you added sounds with that, and I'm sure there are a 
lot more optimised ways of making game worlds, but I'm using it as an 
example of just how much faster alternatives can be. That is of course 
assuming you know how to use them.
Just goes to show just how much abstract layers can end up slowing something 
down. I'm nowhere near an expert so don't feel qualified to talk about 
whether BGT or AngelScript are designed well or have gaping holes and flaws, 
but assuming AngelScript and BGT are well designed, if a well designed 
abstract can slow you down, then just imagine how much a poorly designed 
abstract will worsen it. At least if you work in a compiled language like C 
or C++, you have a lot more control over that and can fix any design issues 
with your code if you know what's wrong with them.

Cheers.
Damien.
-Original Message- 
From: john

Sent: Monday, February 19, 2018 4:28 PM
To: blind-gamers@groups.io
Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine

Our other hope is that an update to BGT comes out.
We know (because of VG storm) that some work has been done on it. Maybe
we'll get lucky.

--
From: "Damien Garwood" <dam...@dcpendleton.plus.com>
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2018 10:59
To: <blind-gamers@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine

Hi,
Oh, I thought you meant have BGT as a library. If you're talking about
building a whole new library from scratch, obviously that would take a lot
of time, effort, and advanced programming expertise. Given that I've made a
resolution to try to switch to C++ and I can't even do a basic timer
yet...Let's just say that I'm currently feeling way beyond my depths when it
comes to managing memory and threads, so I'm a complete alien when it comes
to writing audio engines and looking for pathfinders.
As for porting JavaScript libraries to C++. That'll be harder than you
think, since JavaScripts does a lot of the deep memory process for you to
start with. There also seems to be a few different JS dialects, like
Vanilla, Node, Typescript etc.
Those who have had much more experience with other programming languages
than BGT, either because of work or programming classes etc, will more or
less know everything they need to to learn any language and get along well
with it.
Considering I spent the better part of five years parroting from VB6 and
AutoIt code to get something workable without actually understanding
anything, then actually being able to understand BGT to such a point that
I've been relying on that for about five years, it's a lot harder.
1. High level to low level. No more music.play() for me until I can write a
library that can do that for me. Hello multithreading, streams and buffers,
dynamic memory allocation...Ugh. Already I feel queasy...
2. Single click compilation to heavy build manuals. Run Make. Run Scons. Run
blah blah blah. Install this. Delete that. Move /blah to /bleh. Oh, and
we're not going to tell you how to do this in Windows because we're Unix
geeks. If it doesn't work, tough luck squire.
3. Self contained to resolving dependencies. The fact that BGT had all its
resources in one application and could compile in a similar manner,
including pack files, is just astounding. None of that with C++.
4. Difficulty porting. Short of literally getting BGT as a library and
writing a C++ wrapper, there is no chance of porting my literally dozens of
BGT modules straight over to C++ and have it work. That would just be too
much to ask.
So. Looks like I have a twenty year headache sentence ahead of me while I
learn, or at least attempt to learn, as much technical crap as I can
possibly retain in what I currently feel is a rather small and inadequate
brain, and then try to somehow port this mess over.
Cheers.
Damien.
-Original Message- 
From: Jude DaShiell

Sent: Monday, February 19, 2018 3:37 PM
To: blind-gamers@groups.io
Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine

No you wouldn't, just add stuff to the library that clear the crashes
and make the whole library better over time.  The stuff from bgt could

Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine

2018-02-19 Thread john
Our other hope is that an update to BGT comes out.
We know (because of VG storm) that some work has been done on it. Maybe 
we'll get lucky.

--
From: "Damien Garwood" <dam...@dcpendleton.plus.com>
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2018 10:59
To: <blind-gamers@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine

Hi,
Oh, I thought you meant have BGT as a library. If you're talking about
building a whole new library from scratch, obviously that would take a lot
of time, effort, and advanced programming expertise. Given that I've made a
resolution to try to switch to C++ and I can't even do a basic timer
yet...Let's just say that I'm currently feeling way beyond my depths when it
comes to managing memory and threads, so I'm a complete alien when it comes
to writing audio engines and looking for pathfinders.
As for porting JavaScript libraries to C++. That'll be harder than you
think, since JavaScripts does a lot of the deep memory process for you to
start with. There also seems to be a few different JS dialects, like
Vanilla, Node, Typescript etc.
Those who have had much more experience with other programming languages
than BGT, either because of work or programming classes etc, will more or
less know everything they need to to learn any language and get along well
with it.
Considering I spent the better part of five years parroting from VB6 and
AutoIt code to get something workable without actually understanding
anything, then actually being able to understand BGT to such a point that
I've been relying on that for about five years, it's a lot harder.
1. High level to low level. No more music.play() for me until I can write a
library that can do that for me. Hello multithreading, streams and buffers,
dynamic memory allocation...Ugh. Already I feel queasy...
2. Single click compilation to heavy build manuals. Run Make. Run Scons. Run
blah blah blah. Install this. Delete that. Move /blah to /bleh. Oh, and
we're not going to tell you how to do this in Windows because we're Unix
geeks. If it doesn't work, tough luck squire.
3. Self contained to resolving dependencies. The fact that BGT had all its
resources in one application and could compile in a similar manner,
including pack files, is just astounding. None of that with C++.
4. Difficulty porting. Short of literally getting BGT as a library and
writing a C++ wrapper, there is no chance of porting my literally dozens of
BGT modules straight over to C++ and have it work. That would just be too
much to ask.
So. Looks like I have a twenty year headache sentence ahead of me while I
learn, or at least attempt to learn, as much technical crap as I can
possibly retain in what I currently feel is a rather small and inadequate
brain, and then try to somehow port this mess over.
Cheers.
Damien.
-Original Message- 
From: Jude DaShiell
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2018 3:37 PM
To: blind-gamers@groups.io
Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine

No you wouldn't, just add stuff to the library that clear the crashes
and make the whole library better over time.  The stuff from bgt could
be a sbase then build on that base.  Sounds like a long-term project for
a team of programmers totaling more than one.  Best not put a team like
that together until all candidates have done a few fishing trips
together to figure out who is and is not compatible enough to work
together though.

On Mon, 19 Feb 2018, Damien Garwood wrote:

> Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2018 08:34:39
> From: Damien Garwood <dam...@dcpendleton.plus.com>
> Reply-To: blind-gamers@groups.io
> To: blind-gamers@groups.io
> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine
>
> Hi,
> Even if that were the case, it would still have its audio limitations,
> HTTPS crashes and UDP-only networking. So we would still end up having to
> ransack the internet just to find something decent. But yeah. I could
> certainly use the pathfinder, calendar, timer, tone synth, input-related
> functions etc as a library. That would be neat indeed. I mean, programmers
> often stress the brilliance of code reuse, right?
> Cheers.
> Damien.
>
>
> From: Rynhardt Kruger
> Sent: Monday, February 19, 2018 11:00 AM
> To: blind-gamers@groups.io
> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine
>
> The BGT argument is one I have scene a few times on this list now. It
> seams what we need then is all the functions of BGT wrapped up in a nice
> platform independent library. It could be written in something like
> portable C, with all the platform dependent stuff in platform specific
> modules, and bindings for different languages generated with Swig or
> something. Swig is quite good at generating bindings for many programming
> languages.
>
>
> Note: I'm not volunteering to write it, just want to get the debate going.
> Thoughts?
>
>
> Rynhardt
>
&

Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine

2018-02-19 Thread Damien Garwood

Hi,
Oh, I thought you meant have BGT as a library. If you're talking about 
building a whole new library from scratch, obviously that would take a lot 
of time, effort, and advanced programming expertise. Given that I've made a 
resolution to try to switch to C++ and I can't even do a basic timer 
yet...Let's just say that I'm currently feeling way beyond my depths when it 
comes to managing memory and threads, so I'm a complete alien when it comes 
to writing audio engines and looking for pathfinders.
As for porting JavaScript libraries to C++. That'll be harder than you 
think, since JavaScripts does a lot of the deep memory process for you to 
start with. There also seems to be a few different JS dialects, like 
Vanilla, Node, Typescript etc.
Those who have had much more experience with other programming languages 
than BGT, either because of work or programming classes etc, will more or 
less know everything they need to to learn any language and get along well 
with it.
Considering I spent the better part of five years parroting from VB6 and 
AutoIt code to get something workable without actually understanding 
anything, then actually being able to understand BGT to such a point that 
I've been relying on that for about five years, it's a lot harder.
1. High level to low level. No more music.play() for me until I can write a 
library that can do that for me. Hello multithreading, streams and buffers, 
dynamic memory allocation...Ugh. Already I feel queasy...
2. Single click compilation to heavy build manuals. Run Make. Run Scons. Run 
blah blah blah. Install this. Delete that. Move /blah to /bleh. Oh, and 
we're not going to tell you how to do this in Windows because we're Unix 
geeks. If it doesn't work, tough luck squire.
3. Self contained to resolving dependencies. The fact that BGT had all its 
resources in one application and could compile in a similar manner, 
including pack files, is just astounding. None of that with C++.
4. Difficulty porting. Short of literally getting BGT as a library and 
writing a C++ wrapper, there is no chance of porting my literally dozens of 
BGT modules straight over to C++ and have it work. That would just be too 
much to ask.
So. Looks like I have a twenty year headache sentence ahead of me while I 
learn, or at least attempt to learn, as much technical crap as I can 
possibly retain in what I currently feel is a rather small and inadequate 
brain, and then try to somehow port this mess over.

Cheers.
Damien.
-Original Message- 
From: Jude DaShiell

Sent: Monday, February 19, 2018 3:37 PM
To: blind-gamers@groups.io
Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine

No you wouldn't, just add stuff to the library that clear the crashes
and make the whole library better over time.  The stuff from bgt could
be a sbase then build on that base.  Sounds like a long-term project for
a team of programmers totaling more than one.  Best not put a team like
that together until all candidates have done a few fishing trips
together to figure out who is and is not compatible enough to work
together though.

On Mon, 19 Feb 2018, Damien Garwood wrote:


Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2018 08:34:39
From: Damien Garwood <dam...@dcpendleton.plus.com>
Reply-To: blind-gamers@groups.io
To: blind-gamers@groups.io
Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine

Hi,
Even if that were the case, it would still have its audio limitations, 
HTTPS crashes and UDP-only networking. So we would still end up having to 
ransack the internet just to find something decent. But yeah. I could 
certainly use the pathfinder, calendar, timer, tone synth, input-related 
functions etc as a library. That would be neat indeed. I mean, programmers 
often stress the brilliance of code reuse, right?

Cheers.
Damien.


From: Rynhardt Kruger
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2018 11:00 AM
To: blind-gamers@groups.io
Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine

The BGT argument is one I have scene a few times on this list now. It 
seams what we need then is all the functions of BGT wrapped up in a nice 
platform independent library. It could be written in something like 
portable C, with all the platform dependent stuff in platform specific 
modules, and bindings for different languages generated with Swig or 
something. Swig is quite good at generating bindings for many programming 
languages.



Note: I'm not volunteering to write it, just want to get the debate going.
Thoughts?


Rynhardt


On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 5:11 PM, Damien Garwood 
<dam...@dcpendleton.plus.com> wrote:


 Hi,
 BGT might come with many conveniences. But it also lacks many others. It 
also isn?t indicative of real world programming. Once you realise BGT?s 
limitations and want to move away from it, it?s much harder to do so 
because you end up relying on it. Especially if you?re a programming 
newbie and don?t have a clue how to write audio engines, let alone audio 
engines that can play multiple file types, whether packe

Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine

2018-02-19 Thread Jude DaShiell
No you wouldn't, just add stuff to the library that clear the crashes 
and make the whole library better over time.  The stuff from bgt could 
be a sbase then build on that base.  Sounds like a long-term project for 
a team of programmers totaling more than one.  Best not put a team like 
that together until all candidates have done a few fishing trips 
together to figure out who is and is not compatible enough to work 
together though.


On Mon, 19 Feb 2018, Damien Garwood wrote:


Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2018 08:34:39
From: Damien Garwood <dam...@dcpendleton.plus.com>
Reply-To: blind-gamers@groups.io
To: blind-gamers@groups.io
Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine

Hi,
Even if that were the case, it would still have its audio limitations, HTTPS 
crashes and UDP-only networking. So we would still end up having to ransack the 
internet just to find something decent. But yeah. I could certainly use the 
pathfinder, calendar, timer, tone synth, input-related functions etc as a 
library. That would be neat indeed. I mean, programmers often stress the 
brilliance of code reuse, right?
Cheers.
Damien.


From: Rynhardt Kruger
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2018 11:00 AM
To: blind-gamers@groups.io
Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine

The BGT argument is one I have scene a few times on this list now. It seams 
what we need then is all the functions of BGT wrapped up in a nice platform 
independent library. It could be written in something like portable C, with all 
the platform dependent stuff in platform specific modules, and bindings for 
different languages generated with Swig or something. Swig is quite good at 
generating bindings for many programming languages.


Note: I'm not volunteering to write it, just want to get the debate going.
Thoughts?


Rynhardt


On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 5:11 PM, Damien Garwood <dam...@dcpendleton.plus.com> 
wrote:

 Hi,
 BGT might come with many conveniences. But it also lacks many others. It also 
isn?t indicative of real world programming. Once you realise BGT?s limitations 
and want to move away from it, it?s much harder to do so because you end up 
relying on it. Especially if you?re a programming newbie and don?t have a clue 
how to write audio engines, let alone audio engines that can play multiple file 
types, whether packed or on disk, whether encrypted or open. Not to mention 
keyboard, mouse, joystick support, screenreader and SAPI support, timers, 
pathfinders, combination generators and calendars. The way I see it, scripting 
with something like BGT is like having an overprotective clingy parent that 
just won?t let go, whereas programming something like C++ or Python wants you 
to bend down and kiss its furry rosy smelling derriere before you can get it to 
work.
 Talking from experience here.
 Cheers.
 Damien.


 From: Josh Kennedy
 Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2018 2:54 PM
 To: blind-gamers@groups.io
 Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine

 You could use BGT blind game maker toolkit, from BlastBay studios. It's free.




--


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Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine

2018-02-19 Thread Oriol Gómez
Hi.
You can look around on the network for a pathfinder, there are tons.

as for input, 2d and 3d audio, we have javascript libraries that might
help with all this. They can of course be ported to other languages.

Cheers.

On 2/19/18, Damien Garwood <dam...@dcpendleton.plus.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> Even if that were the case, it would still have its audio limitations, HTTPS
> crashes and UDP-only networking. So we would still end up having to ransack
> the internet just to find something decent. But yeah. I could certainly use
> the pathfinder, calendar, timer, tone synth, input-related functions etc as
> a library. That would be neat indeed. I mean, programmers often stress the
> brilliance of code reuse, right?
> Cheers.
> Damien.
>
>
> From: Rynhardt Kruger
> Sent: Monday, February 19, 2018 11:00 AM
> To: blind-gamers@groups.io
> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine
>
> The BGT argument is one I have scene a few times on this list now. It seams
> what we need then is all the functions of BGT wrapped up in a nice platform
> independent library. It could be written in something like portable C, with
> all the platform dependent stuff in platform specific modules, and bindings
> for different languages generated with Swig or something. Swig is quite good
> at generating bindings for many programming languages.
>
>
> Note: I'm not volunteering to write it, just want to get the debate going.
> Thoughts?
>
>
> Rynhardt
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 5:11 PM, Damien Garwood
> <dam...@dcpendleton.plus.com> wrote:
>
>   Hi,
>   BGT might come with many conveniences. But it also lacks many others. It
> also isn’t indicative of real world programming. Once you realise BGT’s
> limitations and want to move away from it, it’s much harder to do so because
> you end up relying on it. Especially if you’re a programming newbie and
> don’t have a clue how to write audio engines, let alone audio engines that
> can play multiple file types, whether packed or on disk, whether encrypted
> or open. Not to mention keyboard, mouse, joystick support, screenreader and
> SAPI support, timers, pathfinders, combination generators and calendars. The
> way I see it, scripting with something like BGT is like having an
> overprotective clingy parent that just won’t let go, whereas programming
> something like C++ or Python wants you to bend down and kiss its furry rosy
> smelling derriere before you can get it to work.
>   Talking from experience here.
>   Cheers.
>   Damien.
>
>
>   From: Josh Kennedy
>   Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2018 2:54 PM
>   To: blind-gamers@groups.io
>   Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine
>
>   You could use BGT blind game maker toolkit, from BlastBay studios. It's
> free.
>
>

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Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine

2018-02-19 Thread Damien Garwood
Hi,
Even if that were the case, it would still have its audio limitations, HTTPS 
crashes and UDP-only networking. So we would still end up having to ransack the 
internet just to find something decent. But yeah. I could certainly use the 
pathfinder, calendar, timer, tone synth, input-related functions etc as a 
library. That would be neat indeed. I mean, programmers often stress the 
brilliance of code reuse, right?
Cheers.
Damien.


From: Rynhardt Kruger 
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2018 11:00 AM
To: blind-gamers@groups.io 
Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine

The BGT argument is one I have scene a few times on this list now. It seams 
what we need then is all the functions of BGT wrapped up in a nice platform 
independent library. It could be written in something like portable C, with all 
the platform dependent stuff in platform specific modules, and bindings for 
different languages generated with Swig or something. Swig is quite good at 
generating bindings for many programming languages.


Note: I'm not volunteering to write it, just want to get the debate going.
Thoughts?


Rynhardt


On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 5:11 PM, Damien Garwood <dam...@dcpendleton.plus.com> 
wrote:

  Hi,
  BGT might come with many conveniences. But it also lacks many others. It also 
isn’t indicative of real world programming. Once you realise BGT’s limitations 
and want to move away from it, it’s much harder to do so because you end up 
relying on it. Especially if you’re a programming newbie and don’t have a clue 
how to write audio engines, let alone audio engines that can play multiple file 
types, whether packed or on disk, whether encrypted or open. Not to mention 
keyboard, mouse, joystick support, screenreader and SAPI support, timers, 
pathfinders, combination generators and calendars. The way I see it, scripting 
with something like BGT is like having an overprotective clingy parent that 
just won’t let go, whereas programming something like C++ or Python wants you 
to bend down and kiss its furry rosy smelling derriere before you can get it to 
work.
  Talking from experience here.
  Cheers.
  Damien.


  From: Josh Kennedy 
  Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2018 2:54 PM
  To: blind-gamers@groups.io 
  Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine

  You could use BGT blind game maker toolkit, from BlastBay studios. It's free.



Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine

2018-02-19 Thread Rynhardt Kruger
The BGT argument is one I have scene a few times on this list now. It seams
what we need then is all the functions of BGT wrapped up in a nice platform
independent library. It could be written in something like portable C, with
all the platform dependent stuff in platform specific modules, and bindings
for different languages generated with Swig or something. Swig is quite
good at generating bindings for many programming languages.

Note: I'm not volunteering to write it, just want to get the debate going.
Thoughts?

Rynhardt

On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 5:11 PM, Damien Garwood <dam...@dcpendleton.plus.com
> wrote:

> Hi,
> BGT might come with many conveniences. But it also lacks many others. It
> also isn’t indicative of real world programming. Once you realise BGT’s
> limitations and want to move away from it, it’s much harder to do so
> because you end up relying on it. Especially if you’re a programming newbie
> and don’t have a clue how to write audio engines, let alone audio engines
> that can play multiple file types, whether packed or on disk, whether
> encrypted or open. Not to mention keyboard, mouse, joystick support,
> screenreader and SAPI support, timers, pathfinders, combination generators
> and calendars. The way I see it, scripting with something like BGT is like
> having an overprotective clingy parent that just won’t let go, whereas
> programming something like C++ or Python wants you to bend down and kiss
> its furry rosy smelling derriere before you can get it to work.
> Talking from experience here.
> Cheers.
> Damien.
>
> *From:* Josh Kennedy <joshknnd1...@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Sunday, February 18, 2018 2:54 PM
> *To:* blind-gamers@groups.io
> *Subject:* Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine
>
> You could use BGT blind game maker toolkit, from BlastBay studios. It's
> free.
> 
>
>


Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine

2018-02-18 Thread Shaun Everiss

Yeah, and because of how its written its detected by antivirus as a problem.

I mean the antivirus makers do target the blind anyway because they want 
us to suffer but bgt well its old and the the way it handles stuff aint 
supposed to be that good at least if the file is compiled.





On 19/02/2018 4:11 a.m., Damien Garwood wrote:

Hi,
BGT might come with many conveniences. But it also lacks many others. It also 
isn’t indicative of real world programming. Once you realise BGT’s limitations 
and want to move away from it, it’s much harder to do so because you end up 
relying on it. Especially if you’re a programming newbie and don’t have a clue 
how to write audio engines, let alone audio engines that can play multiple file 
types, whether packed or on disk, whether encrypted or open. Not to mention 
keyboard, mouse, joystick support, screenreader and SAPI support, timers, 
pathfinders, combination generators and calendars. The way I see it, scripting 
with something like BGT is like having an overprotective clingy parent that 
just won’t let go, whereas programming something like C++ or Python wants you 
to bend down and kiss its furry rosy smelling derriere before you can get it to 
work.
Talking from experience here.
Cheers.
Damien.


From: Josh Kennedy
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2018 2:54 PM
To: blind-gamers@groups.io
Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine

You could use BGT blind game maker toolkit, from BlastBay studios. It's free.




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Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine

2018-02-18 Thread john
Agreed here, with sadness.
I've written a lot more software in bgt than I have games, and I hit those 
limits a lot. Its frustrating, because the engine is so amazingly good at what 
it does do that you really want to keep using it. The problem is that it works 
in a sort of walled garden; anything outside its limits is entirely unreachable 
to the programmer (multithreading, binary file support, other sound formats, 
libraries, braille support and worst of all advanced data structures).


From: Damien Garwood 
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2018 10:11
To: blind-gamers@groups.io 
Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine


Hi,
BGT might come with many conveniences. But it also lacks many others. It also 
isn’t indicative of real world programming. Once you realise BGT’s limitations 
and want to move away from it, it’s much harder to do so because you end up 
relying on it. Especially if you’re a programming newbie and don’t have a clue 
how to write audio engines, let alone audio engines that can play multiple file 
types, whether packed or on disk, whether encrypted or open. Not to mention 
keyboard, mouse, joystick support, screenreader and SAPI support, timers, 
pathfinders, combination generators and calendars. The way I see it, scripting 
with something like BGT is like having an overprotective clingy parent that 
just won’t let go, whereas programming something like C++ or Python wants you 
to bend down and kiss its furry rosy smelling derriere before you can get it to 
work.
Talking from experience here.
Cheers.
Damien.


From: Josh Kennedy 
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2018 2:54 PM
To: blind-gamers@groups.io 
Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine

You could use BGT blind game maker toolkit, from BlastBay studios. It's free.


Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine

2018-02-18 Thread Damien Garwood
Hi,
BGT might come with many conveniences. But it also lacks many others. It also 
isn’t indicative of real world programming. Once you realise BGT’s limitations 
and want to move away from it, it’s much harder to do so because you end up 
relying on it. Especially if you’re a programming newbie and don’t have a clue 
how to write audio engines, let alone audio engines that can play multiple file 
types, whether packed or on disk, whether encrypted or open. Not to mention 
keyboard, mouse, joystick support, screenreader and SAPI support, timers, 
pathfinders, combination generators and calendars. The way I see it, scripting 
with something like BGT is like having an overprotective clingy parent that 
just won’t let go, whereas programming something like C++ or Python wants you 
to bend down and kiss its furry rosy smelling derriere before you can get it to 
work.
Talking from experience here.
Cheers.
Damien.


From: Josh Kennedy 
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2018 2:54 PM
To: blind-gamers@groups.io 
Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine

You could use BGT blind game maker toolkit, from BlastBay studios. It's free.


Re: [blind-gamers] accessible game engine

2018-02-18 Thread Josh Kennedy
You could use BGT blind game maker toolkit, from BlastBay studios. It's free.