Keith, when you buy a dado blade, I would suggest you buy a stack set and not the kind that wobble.
earlier, Keith Christian, wrote: >Hi Dale, > > >I hope you are healing well. > >I do have a new Porter Cable router. My last router threw a bit my way >and I trashed it. Pretty scary. The shaft had a slight bend in it. My >new router is variable speed and feels much more comfortable than my old >one. It is not a plunge router but the shaft is straight! > >I also have a table saw, but I do not have a dato blade yet. It looks >like it may be the next purchase. But it will need to wait a while. >Let's just say I have been buying more than I can afford lately. > > >Thank you for your detailed description of joints and how they are made. >It really helped. I believe I have quite a few dove tail bits and I'll >give them a go soon. A friend has a dove tail jig that he said he would >like to show me how to use some time. > > >My brother would make a joint that was pretty strong but I do not know >what it is called. He would raise the blade on the table saw so it >would cut half way through the wood. Then he would turn the wood on its >side and cut the other direction. It would make a small square or >rectangular groove along the edge of the wood. He would do the same >thing on the other piece of wood. When the corners are joined, they >would fit flush on both sides and you would have a large gluing >surface. What is this joint called and when is it appropriate to use? >He seemed to use it a lot. > >Thanks again, > >Keith > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: <mailto:blindhandyman%40yahoogroups.com>blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dale Leavens >Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 9:50 PM >To: <mailto:blindhandyman%40yahoogroups.com>blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] Cutting some joints [Was:] cutting dove >tails > >Hello Keith, > >I will try to help you understand some of these joints and how you might > >create them. I assume if you have router bits that you also have a >router. I >wonder if you have a plunge router and what other tools you may have. >Some >joints like dados and rabbets can as easily be made with a table saw as >can >a finger or box joint with the right jig. > >You specified : >Dovetail >Blind Dovetail >Box Joint >Basic Dado >Lap Joint >Locked Rabbet Drawer Joint > >Dovetail > >A dove tail joint is when one end of a board meets at right angles with >the >end of another board such as when the side of a drawer meets the front >of a >drawer where there are tails or short pegs cut in the end of the side of >the >drawer. These pegs are wider at their ends and narrow as they approach >the >rest of the side board of the drawer. Between them then there are spaces > >which are wider and narrow as they approach the ends of the pegs. These >pegs >are called the tails and give their name as they look the shape of the >tail >of a pigeon or dove. > >Pins are cut in the edge of the drawer face to fit between the tails. If > >these pins are the full thickness of the face of the drawer then the >joint >is known as an open dove tail. This sort is often used on the corner of >a >cabinet where the contrasting end grain on both sides of the joint can >be >visually striking and of course the joint is very strong particularly in >one >direction. The number of gluing surfaces provide great sticking >capability, >a very strong joint to be sure. > >Blind Dovetail > >If the pins are not cut the full depth of the face of the drawer or >joining >piece so that the tails fit into pockets the joint is known as a blind >dove >tail. This too is a very strong joint, can be equally strong or even mor > >secure than the through dove tail but you won't see the tips of the >tails >out the front of the drawer. > >The bit you will use is known as a dove tail bit. You will recognize it >by >the shape, the shape of a dove tail. It is wider at the end of the >cutter >and tapers in toward the shaft. They come in a few sizes generally about > >half an inch across the end but there are a couple of common angles. The > >angle mostly is a question of taste. > >Most of the jigs, maybe all of the jigs also require that you instal a >collar in the base of your router. This is like a washer filling in the >hole >in the middle of the router base plate with a sleeve projecting down at >least a quarter of an inch below the plate through which you instal the >router bit. You follow the teeth of a comb with this collar which guides >the >bit in and out of the work. > >There are various jigs for guiding a router to cut dove tail joints the >least expensive and most durable and easily used by the blind in my >opinion >only properly cut blind dove tail joints but I don't have sufficient >experience to say for certain that the more sophisticated jigs can't be >used >efficiently by the blind. This is often a question of just what is meant >by >use. Doubtless there is a way to use them all just as there is a way to >fly >an microlite aeroplane from England to Australia with a pilot in the >back >seat to land you and guide you around runways and to fuel pumps and >watch >that you don't fly into the path of other aircraft. I hope to be able to > >investigate the more sophisticated jigs within the next several months >and >maybe then will be better able to comment. If anyone else has I would >love >to hear of it. > >The more sophisticated jigs will allow you to alter size and spacing of >the >tails, leaving gaps if necessary for specific features and all that. > >Box Joint > >A box joint or finger joint is similar to a dove tail except that the >pins >have straight edges and are of equal width and spacing and depth. They >fit >together much like interspacing your fingers. These are often used to >connect the edges of boxes. They do provide a load of glue surface but >don't >lock in quite the same way as a dove tail. They can nevertheless be very > >attractive and if they really need tight locking sometimes a hole will >be >bored at the junction of a pair of pins and a dowel glued and banged in >maybe even in both directions at different points to really lock the >corner >up solidly. > >A dove tail jig can be used to produce this joint using a half inch >straight >edge bit through a collar. If you have room you set adjoining boards >vertically offset by the width of a pin and cutting them together. > >You can also make a box joint jig to be used in conjunction with the >miter >gauge of a table saw or a router table appropriately sized for the pins >and >spaces you will want. If doing this on a router table you are limited by >the >size of cutters available. You may have more flexibility using a table >saw >with a dado set which can be nearly infinitely variable. > >Basic Dado > >I learned recently or maybe relearned that a dado is a flat bottomed >groove >running across the direction of the grain while the same thing running >with >the grain is called a groove. If you cut a flat bottomed groove say >across >the inside of a shelving unit then slide a shelf into that groove you >have >made a dado joint. These are often used to fit the rear of a drawer into >the >sides along with a number of other types. > >With a router you might get lucky and be able to select a straight edge >bit >exactly the width you need, if not then select a slightly smaller one >and >widen the dado by moving the cut a little. Depending on the depth you >need >to cut you may have to make the cut in deepening passes. > >In a router table you may be able to use the fence to guide your work >depending on the distance from the edge and assuming a parallel to edge >groove. You may be able to use one of those guide fences attached to the > >base of a free-hand router or you may prefer to clamp a batten or >straight >edge to guide the router. There are also several ways to make jigs for >this >purpose as well. > >A stopped dado is one where you plunge the router part way into the >distance >and maybe raise it before the end so as to hide the ends where the >mating >piece comes to the edge or where the mating piece is narrower as for >example >a shelf which does not come all the way to the front of a cabinet and >you >don't wish to show the dado. You will have to square up the ends with a >chisel or round over the edge of the inserted piece to make this sort >fit. > >This is similar to a sliding or locking dovetail only instead of using a > >straight bit in the router you use a dove tail bit to cut the flat >bottom >groove which will have walls which expand toward the bottom of the >groove. >You will then have to cut matching edges on the shelf and slide the >shelf >into the groove. This sort might be used to hold the front of a drawer >to >the walls or the rear of the drawer between the walls. Even without glue > >these joints can be wonderful but they need precise cutting and when >glued >the wood will break before the joint will fail. > >Using a table saw you would use a dado set to cut dados. Stopped or >blind >dados are a little more difficult to cut with a table saw but not >impossible, I have done it many times and I have even done it with a >hand-held circular saw by making several passes moving the saw about the > >width of the blade over with each pass. This usually wants a little >cleaning >up with a chisel when done. > >Lap Joint > >There are a couple of varieties of lap joint and probably they all >require >some mechanical fixing in addition to glue. A half lap joint is when you >cut >away half the thickness of the end of a board the length of the width of >a >board you will join it too for example and lay it over another cut half >way >through with the width of the original board so one is recessed into the > >other. Doesn't have to be half of course depending on how much >structural >strength you wish. This method is often used for building gates because >the >shoulders of the slot can support a board against it's cheeks and help >reduce racking off square.Nails or screws will usually have to be used >to >reinforce such a joint. Sometimes this joinery will be used for making >face >frames for cabinets or where boards will cross as in an 'X' formation >but >must preserve a flat surface. > >Ship lapping is where a rabbet is cut on the edges but on opposite faces >of >boards so that they overlap but still lay flat. > >A router with straight cutting bits can be used for these sorts of >joints >and a ship lap edge can certainly be cut with a straight edge bit and >guide >or fence in a table or with a special rabbet bit which has a pilot bit >which >is smaller in diameter than the cutter and which follows the edge of the > >board. The larger lap joints will require several passes with a router, >I >more usually cut them with a table saw or a circular saw plowing out >several >cuts and cleaning up with a chisel. > >Locked Rabbet Drawer Joint > >I used these for making drawers a lot many years ago when all I had was >a >table saw. You remove a large sort of rabbet across the inside face at >each >end of a drawer front but extend the floor deeper toward the center of >the >drawer front forming an under cut of the wall of the rabbet. this leaves >a >short tongue. On the inside very near the end of the side wall of the >drawer >you cut a dado the width of the tongue and the distance from the end of >the >drawer wall which is the thickness of the under cut. You then slip the >dado >over the tongue and glue it up with a brad or two to reinforce the >joint. >This dado though is fairly fragile remembering that it is thin and >across >end grain. > >There are a couple of router bits which can help you with this cut, >there is >a 'T' slot bit which cuts a wider end than the wall and of course thin >and >wide straight cutters. > >I hope all this is helpful in understanding the various joints of >interest. > >Dale Leavens, Cochrane Ontario Canada >[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:DLeavens%40puc.net> net >Skype DaleLeavens >Come and meet Aurora, Nakita and Nanook at our polar bear habitat. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Keith Christian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] ><mailto:kchristian%40surfside.net> .net> >To: <blindhandyman@ <mailto:blindhandyman%40yahoogroups.com> >yahoogroups.com> >Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 5:00 PM >Subject: RE: [BlindHandyMan] cutting dove tails > > > Hello, > > > > I would be interested in learning how to make different kinds of >joints. > > Are there some basic jigs that help you create a variety of joints for > > making drawers, boxes, shelves, etc? > > > > I have a good selection of router bits. I just don't know what they >all > > do and what kinds of joints I can make with them. Many of the bits >have > > a bearing on the end, while many others do not. > > > > Below are some joints that I would like to learn more about. I'd like > > to know what they are used for, how they are made, and what jigs are > > available to help a blind guy make them. > > > > Dovetail > > Blind Dovetail > > Box Joint > > Basic Dado > > Lap Joint > > Locked Rabbet Drawer Joint > > > > Ray Boyce sent an article to the list that made me want to understand > > different types of joints and how to make them. Thanks, > > > > Keith > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: blindhandyman@ <mailto:blindhandyman%40yahoogroups.com> >yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:blindhandyman@ <mailto:blindhandyman%40yahoogroups.com> >yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dale Leavens > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 12:18 PM > > To: blindhandyman@ <mailto:blindhandyman%40yahoogroups.com> >yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] cutting dove tails > > > > > > > > Hi Lenny, > > > > I use a bench top jig. I am sorry I can't tell you the brand right off > > hand > > there are a few very similar, I think I have the manual up stairs so > > next > > time I stump up there I'll have a look for it. > > > > This is not the sort which allows through dove tails or adjustable >ones, > > I > > am not sure the blind can use those satisfactorily, when I hear Norm >use > > his > > on the New Yankee Workshop he speaks of registering his with a scale >and > > you > > need both a dove tail bit and a straight bit to use them. You will >know > > them > > because instructions are that you flip the comb over to cut the pins. >Be > > > > sure I don't know that we can't use those jigs but I haven't had one >in > > my > > hands to assess it. At over a hundred and fifty bucks I have been > > reluctant > > to buy one on spec. > > > > What I have then is a free-hand used jig. You mount it at the edge of >a > > work > > bench so that the wall of a drawer say can be fitted against the front > > edge > > and hang below the edge of the bench. There is a cam lock clamp > > arrangement > > with a spring return which you have to adjust to the thickness of the > > wall > > to clamp it vertically into place. You place the wall good side in > > against > > the face of the jig than slide it to one or other edge of this clamp > > depending on which wall you are cutting. There is a vertical stop to > > align > > the edge of the wall at each edge of the jig to help aline and get it > > vertical. > > > > There is a similar arrangement at the top of the jig. You slide the > > front or > > rear of the drawer horizontally under the top clamp and against a stop > > on > > one or other side of the top surface until the end comes against the > > wall > > already installed in the front clamp. Again it is front face down. You > > make > > your adjustments as necessary so that the top of the front edge is >flush > > > > with the inside face of the front member of the drawer. If both are >snug > > > > against the stops and the stops are accurately set the edges will be > > offset > > half an inch. > > > > There is a comb with slots at half inch intervals which lies over the > > junction of the side wall and front face boards. > > > > You instal a collar into the base plate of your router and your dove > > tail > > cutter then just gently follow the teeth of the comb with the collar >in > > the > > router. The cutter cuts out the space between the tails on the side >wall > > and > > the space between the pins on the back side of the front panel at the > > same > > time. > > > > You reverse the top, that is the front member and slide it against the > > opposite side stop and you place the other side member into the front > > clamp > > against the opposite side stop to make the dove tails for the other >side > > of > > the drawer and of course a similar thing for the rear. > > > > I use short bits of duct tape to mark sides near one end so I don't >get > > them > > mixed up. > > > > This sort of jig is only good for about 14 inches I think and I did > > recently > > have a project which wanted more so I changed to using a miter with > > biscuits. I would have preferred the dove tail just for showing off. > > > > There are a couple of other adjustments, you need to cut to a fixed > > distance > > and there is a fence for that and cutting a few test pieces, the depth > > of > > the cutter will determine how tight the joint will be, you don't want >it > > too > > tight. > > > > You might like a load of scrap to reduce any risk of tear-out along >the > > edges although this is the inside face of the side so mostly hidden. > > > > I haven't used my big Triton router for this and don't think I would > > like to > > but my little Porter Cable does work well. I would really like to get >my > > > > hands on the fancier jig, you can set different spacing which can be > > attractive or even practical where your joint isn't a multiple of half > > inches. > > > > Hope this is helpful, I will find out the make I just don't recall and >I > > am > > still very much limiting my trips up stairs for now. > > > > Dale Leavens, Cochrane Ontario Canada > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:DLeavens%40puc.net> net > > Skype DaleLeavens > > Come and meet Aurora, Nakita and Nanook at our polar bear habitat. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Lenny McHugh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:lmchugh%40verizon.net> > > net> > > To: "Handyman-Blind" <blindhandyman@ > > <mailto:blindhandyman%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 10:20 AM > > Subject: [BlindHandyMan] cutting dove tails > > > >> Dale, > >> A while back you mentioned that you were cutting dove tails. I would > > like > >> to know what equipment that you are using? > >> Also does the jig require a free hand router or do you invert it on a > >> router table? > >> I have been toying with the idea for a while but so far hadn't really > > had > >> the need. > >> Lenny <http://www.geocitie>http://www.geocitie > <<http://www.geocitie>http://www.geocitie ><<http://www.geocities.com/lenny_mchugh/>http://www.geocities.com/lenny_mchugh/> > >s.com/lenny_mchugh/> > > s.com/lenny_mchugh/ > >> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >> > >> > >> > >> To listen to the show archives go to link > >> <http://acbradio.>http://acbradio. <<http://acbradio.>http://acbradio. ><<http://acbradio.org/handyman.html>http://acbradio.org/handyman.html> >org/handyman.html> org/handyman.html > >> or > >> <ftp://ftp.acbradio.>ftp://ftp.acbradio. > > <<ftp://ftp.acbradio.>ftp://ftp.acbradio. ><<ftp://ftp.acbradio.org/acbradio-archives/handyman/>ftp://ftp.acbradio.org/acbradio-archives/handyman/> >org/acbradio-archives/handyman/> > > org/acbradio-archives/handyman/ > >> > >> The Pod Cast address for the Blind Handy Man Show is. > >> <http://www.acbradio>http://www.acbradio > > <<http://www.acbradio>http://www.acbradio ><<http://www.acbradio.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday>http://www.acbradio.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday> >.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday> > > .org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday > >> > >> The Pod Cast address for the Cooking In The Dark Show is. > >> <http://www.gcast.>http://www.gcast. <<http://www.gcast.>http://www.gcast. ><<http://www.gcast.com/u/cookingindark/main.xml>http://www.gcast.com/u/cookingindark/main.xml> >com/u/cookingindark/main.xml> > > com/u/cookingindark/main.xml > >> > >> Visit The Blind Handy Man Files Page To Review Contributions From > > Various > >> List Members At The Following address: > >> <http://www.jaws->http://www.jaws- <<http://www.jaws->http://www.jaws- ><<http://www.jaws-users.com/handyman/>http://www.jaws-users.com/handyman/> >users.com/handyman/> > > users.com/handyman/ > >> > >> Visit the new archives page at the following address > >> <http://www.mail->http://www.mail- > > <<http://www.mail->http://www.mail- ><<http://www.mail-archive.com/blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com/>http://www.mail-archive.com/blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com/> ><mailto:archive.com%2Fblindhandyman%40yahoogroups.com>archive.com/blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com/> > > archive.com/ <mailto:archive.com%2Fblindhandyman%40yahoogroups.com> ><mailto:blindhandyman%40yahoogroups.com>blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com/ > >> For a complete list of email commands pertaining to the Blind Handy > > Man > >> list just send a blank message to: > >> blindhandyman- <mailto:blindhandyman-help%40yahoogroups.com> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:help%40yahoogroups.com> com > >> Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> No virus found in this incoming message. > >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. > >> Version: 7.1.413 / Virus Database: 268.18.17/730 - Release Date: > >> 22/03/2007 > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > To listen to the show archives go to link > > <http://acbradio.>http://acbradio. > <http://acbradio.org/handyman.html> org/handyman.html > > or > > <ftp://ftp.acbradio.>ftp://ftp.acbradio. ><ftp://ftp.acbradio.org/acbradio-archives/handyman/> >org/acbradio-archives/handyman/ > > > > The Pod Cast address for the Blind Handy Man Show is. > > <http://www.acbradio>http://www.acbradio ><http://www.acbradio.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday> >.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday > > > > The Pod Cast address for the Cooking In The Dark Show is. > > <http://www.gcast.>http://www.gcast. > <http://www.gcast.com/u/cookingindark/main.xml> >com/u/cookingindark/main.xml > > > > Visit The Blind Handy Man Files Page To Review Contributions From >Various > > List Members At The Following address: > > <http://www.jaws->http://www.jaws- <http://www.jaws-users.com/handyman/> >users.com/handyman/ > > > > Visit the new archives page at the following address > > <http://www.mail->http://www.mail- ><http://www.mail-archive.com/blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com/> ><mailto:archive.com%2Fblindhandyman%40yahoogroups.com>archive.com/blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com/ > > For a complete list of email commands pertaining to the Blind Handy >Man > > list just send a blank message to: > > blindhandyman- <mailto:blindhandyman-help%40yahoogroups.com> ><mailto:help%40yahoogroups.com>[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.413 / Virus Database: 268.18.17/730 - Release Date: > > 22/03/2007 > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.17/731 - Release Date: >3/23/2007 3:27 PM John -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.17/731 - Release Date: 3/23/2007 3:27 PM To listen to the show archives go to link http://acbradio.org/handyman.html or ftp://ftp.acbradio.org/acbradio-archives/handyman/ The Pod Cast address for the Blind Handy Man Show is. http://www.acbradio.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday The Pod Cast address for the Cooking In The Dark Show is. http://www.gcast.com/u/cookingindark/main.xml Visit The Blind Handy Man Files Page To Review Contributions From Various List Members At The Following address: http://www.jaws-users.com/handyman/ Visit the new archives page at the following address http://www.mail-archive.com/blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com/ For a complete list of email commands pertaining to the Blind Handy Man list just send a blank message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! 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