Re: [Bloat] [aqm] the side effects of 330ms lag in the real world

2014-04-29 Thread Fred Baker (fred)
On Apr 29, 2014, at 3:08 AM, Mikael Abrahamsson swm...@swm.pp.se wrote: On Mon, 28 Apr 2014, Dave Taht wrote: pretty wonderful experiment and video http://livingwithlag.com/ Just so that everybody realises that this is an advertisement. Also, what access method has 300 ms access

Re: [Bloat] [aqm] the side effects of 330ms lag in the real world

2014-04-29 Thread Mikael Abrahamsson
On Tue, 29 Apr 2014, Fred Baker (fred) wrote: Well, we could discuss international communications. I happen to be at Infocom in Toronto, VPN’d into Cisco San Jose, and did a ping to you: Yes, but as soon as you hit the long distance network the latency is the same regardless of access

Re: [Bloat] [aqm] the side effects of 330ms lag in the real world

2014-04-29 Thread Dave Taht
On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 12:56 AM, Mikael Abrahamsson swm...@swm.pp.se wrote: On Tue, 29 Apr 2014, Fred Baker (fred) wrote: A couple points here. 1) The video went viral, and garnered over 600,000 new hits in the 12 hours since I posted it here. there is pent up demand for less latency. While

Re: [Bloat] [aqm] the side effects of 330ms lag in the real world

2014-04-29 Thread Aaron Wood
On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 5:46 PM, Dave Taht dave.t...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, but as soon as you hit the long distance network the latency is the same regardless of access method. So while I agree that understanding the effect of latency is important, it's no longer a meaningful way of

Re: [Bloat] [aqm] the side effects of 330ms lag in the real world

2014-04-29 Thread Jim Gettys
On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 12:44 PM, Jim Gettys j...@freedesktop.org wrote: On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 3:56 AM, Mikael Abrahamsson swm...@swm.pp.sewrote: On Tue, 29 Apr 2014, Fred Baker (fred) wrote: Well, we could discuss international communications. I happen to be at Infocom in Toronto,

Re: [Bloat] [aqm] the side effects of 330ms lag in the real world

2014-04-29 Thread Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
Jim Gettys j...@freedesktop.org writes: Now, if someone gives me real fiber to the home, with a real switch fabric upstream, rather than gpon life might be somewhat better (if the switches aren't themselves overbuffered But so far, it isn't. As a data point for this, I have fibre to my

Re: [Bloat] [aqm] the side effects of 330ms lag in the real world

2014-04-29 Thread Dave Taht
On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 9:44 AM, Jim Gettys j...@freedesktop.org wrote: On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 3:56 AM, Mikael Abrahamsson swm...@swm.pp.se wrote: On Tue, 29 Apr 2014, Fred Baker (fred) wrote: Well, we could discuss international communications. I happen to be at Infocom in Toronto,

Re: [Bloat] [aqm] the side effects of 330ms lag in the real world

2014-04-29 Thread Jim Gettys
On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 1:01 PM, Toke Høiland-Jørgensen t...@toke.dkwrote: Jim Gettys j...@freedesktop.org writes: Now, if someone gives me real fiber to the home, with a real switch fabric upstream, rather than gpon life might be somewhat better (if the switches aren't themselves

Re: [Bloat] [aqm] the side effects of 330ms lag in the real world

2014-04-29 Thread Hal Murray
Also, what access method has 300 ms access latency, let alone 3 seconds? None that I know of, the meaningful comparison would be ADSL2+ at around 25ms and 3G at around 50-100ms. I have an old/slow 256Kbit SDSL link. I frequently see download bloat delays of over 3 seconds. I haven't seen

Re: [Bloat] [aqm] the side effects of 330ms lag in the real world

2014-04-29 Thread Michael Spacefalcon
Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote: I have an old/slow 256Kbit SDSL link. 256? Really? Which ISP/CLEC is that? I thought there were no SDSL providers left besides Covad/Megapath, and the latter has Nokia (former Diamond Lane) D50 DSLAMs, whose SDSL speed options are 192, 384, 768, 1152

Re: [Bloat] [aqm] the side effects of 330ms lag in the real world

2014-04-29 Thread Steinar H. Gunderson
On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 11:26:55PM +, Michael Spacefalcon wrote: Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote: 256? Really? Which ISP/CLEC is that? His email address might give a hint? :-) /* Steinar */ -- Homepage: http://www.sesse.net/ ___ Bloat

Re: [Bloat] [aqm] the side effects of 330ms lag in the real world

2014-04-29 Thread Hal Murray
256? Really? Which ISP/CLEC is that? I thought there were no SDSL providers left besides Covad/Megapath, and the latter has Nokia (former Diamond Lane) D50 DSLAMs, whose SDSL speed options are 192, 384, 768, 1152 and 1536 kbps - no 256 in that list. Thanks for the heads-up. I wonder

Re: [Bloat] [aqm] the side effects of 330ms lag in the real world

2014-04-29 Thread Dave Taht
On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 10:01 AM, Toke Høiland-Jørgensen t...@toke.dk wrote: Jim Gettys j...@freedesktop.org writes: Now, if someone gives me real fiber to the home, with a real switch fabric upstream, rather than gpon life might be somewhat better (if the switches aren't themselves

[Bloat] SDSL speeds (was: the side effects of 330ms lag in the real world)

2014-04-29 Thread Michael Spacefalcon
Steinar H. Gunderson sgunder...@bigfoot.com wrote: His email address might give a hint? :-) Yes, I am quite familiar with that domain name, hence my ??? comment: I know what speeds are supported by Megapath's DSLAMs (got a DSLAM just like theirs in my own lab), and 256 kbps isn't one of them.