Re: [board-discuss] Procedure Of TDF Board Elections

[Andreas Mantke]

Hi Simon, Cor, all,

Am 31.10.2017 um 20:46 schrieb Simon Phipps:
> 
> 
> On 31 Oct 2017 18:54, "Andreas Mantke"  > wrote:
> 
> Hi Simon, Cor, all,
> 
> Am 31.10.2017 um 19:19 schrieb Simon Phipps:
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 5:22 PM, Andreas Mantke  
> > >> wrote:
> >
> >     Hi Cor, all,
> >
> >     Am 31.10.2017 um 17:12 schrieb Cor Nouws:
> >     > Hi Andreas,
> >     >
> >     > Andreas Mantke wrote on 31-10-17 13:44:
> >     >
> >     >> that's not the topic, I wrote about. I wrote about very
> close personal
> >     >> or economic connections, not the usual friendship etc.
> >     >
> >     > In business, one often makes the most deals with people
> you're friendly
> >     > with ;)
> >     > So let's try to all be friends and use the appropriate rules
> to prevent
> >     > personal relations being the stronger argument than rational
> considerations.
> >     >
> >
> >     I'm not talking about not being friendly with each other
> (that's also a
> >     rule written in the statutes), but about the fact that TDF is an
> >     organization with rules and a lot of credit based also on good
> behavior
> >     and transparent administration/organization.
> >
> >
> > Andreas, do you have a specific request or proposal?
> >
> 
> yes, as I already mentioned and quoted here:
> 
> "Thus the people acting on both bodies shouldn't have immunity of
> witness because of a or economic dependence to a member of the the other
> body."
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, I don't know what this means. Are you requesting
> disqualification of a candidate?
> 

no, because if I don't miss anything, there is only one candidate yet.

Cheers,
Andreas

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Re: [board-discuss] Procedure Of TDF Board Elections

[Andreas Mantke]

Hi Cor, all,

Am 31.10.2017 um 20:41 schrieb Cor Nouws:
> Hi Andreas,
> 
> Andreas Mantke wrote on 31-10-17 19:54:
(...)
> 
>> I don't think that a good organization/community need to put this into
>> rules/statutes, but should have it in their DNA.
> 
> If you think about possibilities to help with that, you're really
> welcome to join/oversee the procedures from the MC in the current
> elections, which is at least one side of that.
>

it's not the best idea to ask a board deputy)( member to oversee the
elections of the board, is it?

And it was not my suggestion to do such things. My recommendation (and
this for the candidacy for both bodies) states that is not the best idea
to try to jump over the fence, because one of them has to have an eye on
the work of the other. But everyone has to think about this situation
himself and decide on himself.

Personal note: I myself would feel very comfortable if I would candidate
for the MC half a year after I left the BoD.

And to illustrate my personal view a bit more: We had already regional
elections and the old government was voted down. A lot of them stayed in
the parliament, but they will not be member of parliamentary
commissions, that debate about topics of their former position (it's no
written rule, but an agreement and everyone knows what to do).

Kind regards,
Andreas
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[board-discuss] announcing chairman of the Membership Committee

[Cor Nouws]

Dear members, dear board,

I'm more than happy to announce that yesterday in its meeting, the
Membership Committee has chosen Gabriele Ponzo as chairman.

As written before: I stepped down from this role since I'm a candidate
with the elections of the board. And of course, at this place too, I
express my gratitude to the MC for the cooperation (up until now - still
there..). It was fruitful and often brought me inspiration.

Most important now: congratulations Gabriele: wishing you all success
and a good time in your new role!

Cor

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Re: [board-discuss] Procedure Of TDF Board Elections

[Simon Phipps]

On 31 Oct 2017 18:54, "Andreas Mantke"  wrote:

Hi Simon, Cor, all,

Am 31.10.2017 um 19:19 schrieb Simon Phipps:
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 5:22 PM, Andreas Mantke  > wrote:
>
> Hi Cor, all,
>
> Am 31.10.2017 um 17:12 schrieb Cor Nouws:
> > Hi Andreas,
> >
> > Andreas Mantke wrote on 31-10-17 13:44:
> >
> >> that's not the topic, I wrote about. I wrote about very close
personal
> >> or economic connections, not the usual friendship etc.
> >
> > In business, one often makes the most deals with people you're
friendly
> > with ;)
> > So let's try to all be friends and use the appropriate rules to
prevent
> > personal relations being the stronger argument than rational
considerations.
> >
>
> I'm not talking about not being friendly with each other (that's also
a
> rule written in the statutes), but about the fact that TDF is an
> organization with rules and a lot of credit based also on good
behavior
> and transparent administration/organization.
>
>
> Andreas, do you have a specific request or proposal?
>

yes, as I already mentioned and quoted here:

"Thus the people acting on both bodies shouldn't have immunity of
witness because of a or economic dependence to a member of the the other
body."


I'm sorry, I don't know what this means. Are you requesting
disqualification of a candidate?



And another recommendation that I think would be worth to follow:

"I think it would be too bad to have a longer break before one get
elected for another body."

I don't think that a good organization/community need to put this into
rules/statutes, but should have it in their DNA.


But that's not an actionable proposal. What should we do?

S.

Re: [board-discuss] Procedure Of TDF Board Elections

[Cor Nouws]

Hi Andreas,

Andreas Mantke wrote on 31-10-17 19:54:
> yes, as I already mentioned and quoted here:
> 
> "Thus the people acting on both bodies shouldn't have immunity of
> witness because of a or economic dependence to a member of the the other
> body."
> 
> And another recommendation that I think would be worth to follow:
> 
> "I think it would be too bad to have a longer break before one get
> elected for another body."

Though I think I do not fully understand (technically) what you suggest.
it reads as: we must be really fair (and transparent). Especially
because of:

> I don't think that a good organization/community need to put this into
> rules/statutes, but should have it in their DNA.

If you think about possibilities to help with that, you're really
welcome to join/oversee the procedures from the MC in the current
elections, which is at least one side of that.

regards,
Cor

-- 
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The Document Foundation, Kurfürstendamm 188, 10707 Berlin
Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint

GPD key ID: 0xB13480A6 - 591A 30A7 36A0 CE3C 3D28  A038 E49D 7365 B134 80A6
mobile  : +31 (0)6 25 20 7001
skype   : cornouws
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twitter : cor4office
jabber  : cor4off...@jabber.org


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Re: [board-discuss] Procedure Of TDF Board Elections

[Andreas Mantke]

Hi Simon, Cor, all,

Am 31.10.2017 um 19:19 schrieb Simon Phipps:
> 
> 
> On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 5:22 PM, Andreas Mantke  > wrote:
> 
> Hi Cor, all,
> 
> Am 31.10.2017 um 17:12 schrieb Cor Nouws:
> > Hi Andreas,
> >
> > Andreas Mantke wrote on 31-10-17 13:44:
> >
> >> that's not the topic, I wrote about. I wrote about very close personal
> >> or economic connections, not the usual friendship etc.
> >
> > In business, one often makes the most deals with people you're friendly
> > with ;)
> > So let's try to all be friends and use the appropriate rules to prevent
> > personal relations being the stronger argument than rational 
> considerations.
> >
> 
> I'm not talking about not being friendly with each other (that's also a
> rule written in the statutes), but about the fact that TDF is an
> organization with rules and a lot of credit based also on good behavior
> and transparent administration/organization.
> 
> 
> Andreas, do you have a specific request or proposal?
> 

yes, as I already mentioned and quoted here:

"Thus the people acting on both bodies shouldn't have immunity of
witness because of a or economic dependence to a member of the the other
body."


And another recommendation that I think would be worth to follow:

"I think it would be too bad to have a longer break before one get
elected for another body."

I don't think that a good organization/community need to put this into
rules/statutes, but should have it in their DNA.

Kind regards,
Andreas

-- 
## Infrastructure Developer LibreOffice
## Freie Office-Suite für Windows, Linux, Mac
## http://LibreOffice.org
## Support the Document Foundation (http://documentfoundation.org)
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Re: [board-discuss] Procedure Of TDF Board Elections

[Simon Phipps]

On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 5:22 PM, Andreas Mantke  wrote:

> Hi Cor, all,
>
> Am 31.10.2017 um 17:12 schrieb Cor Nouws:
> > Hi Andreas,
> >
> > Andreas Mantke wrote on 31-10-17 13:44:
> >
> >> that's not the topic, I wrote about. I wrote about very close personal
> >> or economic connections, not the usual friendship etc.
> >
> > In business, one often makes the most deals with people you're friendly
> > with ;)
> > So let's try to all be friends and use the appropriate rules to prevent
> > personal relations being the stronger argument than rational
> considerations.
> >
>
> I'm not talking about not being friendly with each other (that's also a
> rule written in the statutes), but about the fact that TDF is an
> organization with rules and a lot of credit based also on good behavior
> and transparent administration/organization.
>

Andreas, do you have a specific request or proposal?

S.

Re: [board-discuss] Procedure Of TDF Board Elections

[Andreas Mantke]

Hi Cor, all,

Am 31.10.2017 um 17:12 schrieb Cor Nouws:
> Hi Andreas,
> 
> Andreas Mantke wrote on 31-10-17 13:44:
> 
>> that's not the topic, I wrote about. I wrote about very close personal
>> or economic connections, not the usual friendship etc.
> 
> In business, one often makes the most deals with people you're friendly
> with ;)
> So let's try to all be friends and use the appropriate rules to prevent
> personal relations being the stronger argument than rational considerations.
> 

I'm not talking about not being friendly with each other (that's also a
rule written in the statutes), but about the fact that TDF is an
organization with rules and a lot of credit based also on good behavior
and transparent administration/organization.

Kind regards,
Andreas
-- 
## Infrastructure Developer LibreOffice
## Freie Office-Suite für Windows, Linux, Mac
## http://LibreOffice.org
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Re: [board-discuss] Procedure Of TDF Board Elections

[Cor Nouws]

Hi Andreas,

Andreas Mantke wrote on 31-10-17 13:44:

> that's not the topic, I wrote about. I wrote about very close personal
> or economic connections, not the usual friendship etc.

In business, one often makes the most deals with people you're friendly
with ;)
So let's try to all be friends and use the appropriate rules to prevent
personal relations being the stronger argument than rational considerations.

Ciao,
Cor

-- 
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The Document Foundation, Kurfürstendamm 188, 10707 Berlin
Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint

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Re: [board-discuss] Procedure Of TDF Board Elections

[Andreas Mantke]

Hi Cor, all,

Am 31.10.2017 um 08:45 schrieb Cor Nouws:
> Hi Andreas, all,
> 
> Andreas Mantke wrote on 30-10-17 23:08:
>> The number of remaining active members of the MC is one issue. The other
>> one is the role of the MC in connection to the board (and the other way
>> around). The tasks (and power) of the MC are written in § 12 I of the
>> statutes. The statutes foresee that the MC act as independent as
>> possible from the board (and the other way around too). Thus the people
>> acting on both bodies shouldn't have immunity of witness because of a or
>> economic dependence to a member of the the other body.
> 
> There is indeed always the situation that people have contact with each
> other, either for work in TDF, business, because of friendship, or
> avoiding because of (ancient) conflict. These may influence how one acts

that's not the topic, I wrote about. I wrote about very close personal
or economic connections, not the usual friendship etc.

Kind regards,
Andreas
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Re: [board-discuss] Procedure Of TDF Board Elections

[Cor Nouws]

Hi Andreas, all,

Andreas Mantke wrote on 30-10-17 23:08:
> The number of remaining active members of the MC is one issue. The other
> one is the role of the MC in connection to the board (and the other way
> around). The tasks (and power) of the MC are written in § 12 I of the
> statutes. The statutes foresee that the MC act as independent as
> possible from the board (and the other way around too). Thus the people
> acting on both bodies shouldn't have immunity of witness because of a or
> economic dependence to a member of the the other body.

There is indeed always the situation that people have contact with each
other, either for work in TDF, business, because of friendship, or
avoiding because of (ancient) conflict. These may influence how one acts
in the role and tasks in any body - luckily we're not machines. Because
the board and MC have a multiple members, and we encourage each other to
communicate clear and open, I'm always starting from the optimistic
side: that the outcome of the processes will be fair and balanced.

On the other hand: looking out for ways to improve our process/rules is
always good. So thanks a lot for sharing your concerns here and the
discussion - of course the others too. I expect that, maybe with e.g.
larger membership, these topics will be looked at for sure.

For now: in the coming days you may expect information, more probably
than usual, from the MC how the current elections will be run in the
most transparent and fair way.

Regards,
Cor

-- 
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The Document Foundation, Kurfürstendamm 188, 10707 Berlin
Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint

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