Hi everyone, Thanks for all the contributions here. Let me try to summarize things and look for the common ground here:
* TDF hiring one (or two) developers This is a common factor - apparently, as was expressed at the beginning of this thread - this is not that controversial. We both want to get new people working on some of the most important under-loved areas in LibreOffice, and ideally quickly. Shrinking the proposal to a minimal set that doesn't include controversial things seems to me the best way to get quick action. A constructive proposal was asked for - and I provided one. Hopefully it can attract some support & the board / TDF can move to executing on it quickly. * Senior developers and mentors are very similar I'm fairly convinced that any developer that TDF should employ should be able to work constructively in our community - which means good communication skills, ability to compromise, and to be able to explain complex technical concepts to persuade other community members around their chosen direction / solution. These seem to me to be nearly the same soft skills we want from a mentor. Open Source development is not and should not take place in ivory towers where developers can work without significant social interaction with others. Indeed to become a senior (as Thorsten suggests) lots of this collaborative behaviour is expected even in closed projects. Software is in large part about people ultimately (for better or worse). So - I think any senior software engineer would be able to do both this job and more focused development tasks; so not a huge divergence. I really think, given our mission, if we have volunteers that are eager to work in an area, and need mentoring it would be altogether better on every axis to get them deeper into the project and help them succeed rather than paying to do the same thing ourselves in isolation. * Some areas of disagreement with Paolo: On 25/05/2022 14:51, Paolo Vecchi wrote:
You may notice that the difference is that I believe that the 2 new members of the team should be managed by our mentors and our ED.
My proposal: https://www.mail-archive.com/board-discuss@documentfoundation.org/msg05723.html leaves that decision to the ED - they should focus on execution: "The Executive Director shall direct day to day management for the Targeted Developers" - if they want to do that via other mentors - that's up to them.
Michael Meeks' prefers to have the ESC controlling the mentor/developers
I think this is the same mis-understanding about how the ESC behaves as some command & control body instead of a co-operate & persuade thing. I wrote a little about that here: https://www.mail-archive.com/board-discuss@documentfoundation.org/msg05667.html But I struggle to see how you get "controlling" out of: "Targeted Developer(s) (as normal dev-mentors) shall attend the ESC call, and report on their progress weekly in the normal way." or was it somewhere else ?
but, while I value their technical input, it's a body that is very well represented by commercial contributors employees. I do not think it's a wise idea to have TDF's employees being directed/controlled by our own suppliers.
Apart from the mis-understanding about what being present and reporting on progress in a transparent, weekly group of peers open to anybody means, this is extraordinary to me. Can you expand on your concern here ? who are "our own suppliers?" can you define the problem there in more detail ? I believe my proposal retains a good balance which has served us well over the years: of the ESC advising the board on engineering matters, the board deciding a course of action, and the ED/staff executing on that. Perhaps clarifying a counter-proposal and rationale for it would help. * Conclusion I would commend the board to getting rapidly to the point where we can hire one to two developers (depending on applications) who can also be mentors (ie. my proposal) - since this is the kind of person we want in the project. I'd also suggest - to the points about it being hard to hire good developers (and it really is!), that we dedicate some budget to advertising widely. I'd also suggest that we look in and/or around academia - where (I guess) people who are competent and like learning and teaching tend to lurk. -- michael.me...@collabora.com <><, GM Collabora Productivity Hangout: mejme...@gmail.com, Skype: mmeeks (M) +44 7795 666 147 - timezone usually UK / Europe -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy