Re: [board-discuss] Apache ODF Toolkit migration

2018-11-30 Thread Michael Stahl



hi Dennis,

On 28.11.18 12:49, Dennis Roczek wrote:

On 28.11.2018 11:00, Michael Meeks wrote:

2. the web site, in SVN (will also be changed to read-only):

https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/odf/site/

the SVN repo contains some MarkDown files that are converted to

...

presumably there should be a way to preserve the (relatively small
and simple) content of the repo to either Wiki markup, or something
that some other MarkDown-to-HTML tool can understand; volunteers are
certainly welcome to help with this.



Sounds sensible - what is the scale of the problem: how many lines/tags
of markdown ?


so most of the SVN repo is binary releases, and generated JavaDoc 
documentation.


there are 10570 lines worth of files with ".mdtext" suffix.


there are converters (see
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/9824489/any-markdown-to-wikimarkup-converter-available
) so especially pandoc.


sounds promising.


I offer the help for the MWiki migration. ;-)


thanks for the offer, much appreciated :)

from my point of view, having most of the site in Wiki would be easiest 
to maintain, except perhaps for the release download page.


regards,
 michael

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Re: [board-discuss] Apache ODF Toolkit migration

2018-11-30 Thread Michael Stahl



thanks Simon, Michael, Thorsten for the support!

i suppose we should wait for a formal decision of the TDF board before 
proceeding with the migration.



On 28.11.18 12:37, Simon Phipps wrote:

Hi!

On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 11:12 AM Thorsten Behrens 
mailto:t...@documentfoundation.org>> wrote:


Michael Meeks wrote:
 > On 28/11/2018 09:40, Michael Stahl wrote:
 > > so i'll propose to migrate the ODF Toolkit to The Document
Foundation.
 >
 >       Seems like something the BoD should vote on, In general,
subject to the
 > marketing concerns at the end, it seems like a good idea to me. I
assume
 > there are no current contributors to be upset either way.
 >
Indeed, very supportive of that idea. I'd be quite happy if the ASF
would formally agree handing this over to TDF.


  I agree. I would be very pleased for TDF to host this as a service, 
and would prefer that it happened with the co-operation of the ASF.


S.




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Re: [board-discuss] Apache ODF Toolkit migration

2018-11-28 Thread Dennis Roczek
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Hash: SHA256


Hi *,

On 28.11.2018 11:00, Michael Meeks wrote:
>> 2. the web site, in SVN (will also be changed to read-only):
>>
>>https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/odf/site/
>>
>>the SVN repo contains some MarkDown files that are converted to
> ...
>>presumably there should be a way to preserve the (relatively small
>>and simple) content of the repo to either Wiki markup, or somethin
g
>>that some other MarkDown-to-HTML tool can understand; volunteers a
re
>>certainly welcome to help with this.
>   Sounds sensible - what is the scale of the problem: how many lines/ta
gs
> of markdown ?
> 

there are converters (see
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/9824489/any-markdown-to-wikimarkup-c
onverter-available
) so especially pandoc.

I offer the help for the MWiki migration. ;-)

Best regards,

Dennis Roczek
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Re: [board-discuss] Apache ODF Toolkit migration

2018-11-28 Thread Simon Phipps
Hi!

On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 11:12 AM Thorsten Behrens <
t...@documentfoundation.org> wrote:

> Michael Meeks wrote:
> > On 28/11/2018 09:40, Michael Stahl wrote:
> > > so i'll propose to migrate the ODF Toolkit to The Document Foundation.
> >
> >   Seems like something the BoD should vote on, In general, subject
> to the
> > marketing concerns at the end, it seems like a good idea to me. I assume
> > there are no current contributors to be upset either way.
> >
> Indeed, very supportive of that idea. I'd be quite happy if the ASF
> would formally agree handing this over to TDF.
>

 I agree. I would be very pleased for TDF to host this as a service, and
would prefer that it happened with the co-operation of the ASF.

S.


Re: [board-discuss] Apache ODF Toolkit migration

2018-11-28 Thread Thorsten Behrens
Hi *,

Michael Meeks wrote:
> On 28/11/2018 09:40, Michael Stahl wrote:
> > so i'll propose to migrate the ODF Toolkit to The Document Foundation.
> 
>   Seems like something the BoD should vote on, In general, subject to the
> marketing concerns at the end, it seems like a good idea to me. I assume
> there are no current contributors to be upset either way.
> 
Indeed, very supportive of that idea. I'd be quite happy if the ASF
would formally agree handing this over to TDF.

The functionality the code provides is rather important to the ODF
ecosystem, and LibreOffice in particular.  Being able to maintain it
(if only occasionally), and having an official upstream that is not
read-only is crucial at least to me.

>   From a licensing / contributor / compliance perspective - I'd expect
> this to be adapted to fit with our existing policies & practice.
> 
Yes. Though I think that is a 2nd or a 3rd step, after consensus has
emerged if/where to host this project (assuming that whoever commits
to hosting it, can then set policies).

>   I like the idea of immediately sub-setting this - so if people want to
> come along and resurrect the full project they can do so at Apache -
> while we continue to maintain the bits that we need.
> 
Agreed.

>   As such I think we should scope and frame this as "We are hosting and
> maintaining a validation tool we use, while we use it" - rather than
> creating an expectation that we're going to start a significant
> evangelism effort around investing in, promoting, and improving a
> Java-based ODF DOM implementation. Does that fit with your goal ?
> 
???

That is certainly nothing someone would want to do over here. But
perhaps worth stating the obvious. ;)

Cheers,

-- Thorsten


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Re: [board-discuss] Apache ODF Toolkit migration

2018-11-28 Thread Michael Meeks
Hi Michael,

First - thanks for working on this, (and Svante too) - it looks
positive overall.

On 28/11/2018 09:40, Michael Stahl wrote:
> so i'll propose to migrate the ODF Toolkit to The Document Foundation.

Seems like something the BoD should vote on, In general, subject to the
marketing concerns at the end, it seems like a good idea to me. I assume
there are no current contributors to be upset either way.

From a licensing / contributor / compliance perspective - I'd expect
this to be adapted to fit with our existing policies & practice.

Then some other random preferences that I'm not deeply wedded.

>  the obvious options are:
>    a) move the git repository to gerrit.libreoffice.org

Sounds sensible.

> 2. the web site, in SVN (will also be changed to read-only):
> 
>    https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/odf/site/
> 
>    the SVN repo contains some MarkDown files that are converted to
...
>    presumably there should be a way to preserve the (relatively small
>    and simple) content of the repo to either Wiki markup, or something
>    that some other MarkDown-to-HTML tool can understand; volunteers are
>    certainly welcome to help with this.

Sounds sensible - what is the scale of the problem: how many lines/tags
of markdown ?

> 3. the domain "odftoolkit.org" - this currently redirects to
>    "http://incubator.apache.org/odftoolkit/;
> 
>    this domain would need to be transferred from ASF to TDF before it
>    expires.

Sounds sensible, if the ASF is willing of course.

> 4. mailing list: the "odf-...@incubator.apache.org" will be retired;
>    probably the amount of traffic is going to be quite small, hence
>    suggest to just use "libreoff...@freedesktop.org" for now; if the
>    traffic increases and becomes a problem a dedicated list can be
>    set up later.

Sounds great.

> 5. currently the ASF JIRA is used as bug tracker, with project
>    "ODFTOOLKIT":
>  
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/ODFTOOLKIT-479?jql=project%20%3D%20ODFTOOLKIT
> 
>    there are currently 137 issues that are neither RESOLVED nor CLOSED.
> 
>    so there are 2 decisions to be made here:
> 
>    a) do we want a new component in "bugs.documentfoundation.org"
>   Bugzilla,

I'd say yes; but Xisco should make the call.

>    b) should open issues be migrated? as long as they will be accessible
>   read-only in ASF JIRA (and i don't see any reason why not), i
>   don't see much value in it, since there aren't currently
>   developers available with time to fix the issues; if anybody feels
>   strongly about their issue they can re-create/copy it over
>   manually.

Sounds very sensible.

> another point that we should probably discuss after the migration is
> finished is whether the so-called "Simple API" should be removed from
> ODFDOM due to being duplicative and unmaintained for years.

I like the idea of immediately sub-setting this - so if people want to
come along and resurrect the full project they can do so at Apache -
while we continue to maintain the bits that we need.

I am slightly wary of how the LibreOffice / TDF support could be used
in a marketing context around whatever new stuff goes into odf-dom. I'm
not eager for this to become a distraction to our core mission around
LibreOffice.

As such I think we should scope and frame this as "We are hosting and
maintaining a validation tool we use, while we use it" - rather than
creating an expectation that we're going to start a significant
evangelism effort around investing in, promoting, and improving a
Java-based ODF DOM implementation. Does that fit with your goal ?

That may sound an odd request =) however there have been innumerable
proposals in the past by well meaning, but not terribly technically
competent people to "Re-write LibreOffice based on an ODF DOM" - and I
want to stop that (damaging) hot-air before it re-starts - it has the
potential to be quite harmful to our credibility.

From a marketing perspective we should probably continue to emphasize
that LibreOffice has no Java dependency - and that this is not going to
change.

Anyhow; I support the proposal, thanks Michael - waiting for other BoD
members' input.

ATB,

Michael.

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