Re: [steering-discuss] Preparing elections for the membership committee

[Norbert Thiebaud]

2011/10/26 André Schnabel :
>
> We had some discussion, if we should freeze again the membership process.
> BoD should decide on that (I personally would not like to have again some
> weeks where we do not accept new members, at the other hand it might be easy
> to challenge the vote, if we don't freeze.)

'Freezing' the membership does not necessarily means stop processing
applications, but just that the list of eligible member for the
election is 'frozen' at that date.
The list of member can still grow, but people that get membershp after
the freeze date are not eligible to vote in that election.

Norbert

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Re: [steering-discuss] Preparing elections for the membership committee

[Andre Schnabel]

Hi,

 Original-Nachricht 
> Datum: Wed, 26 Oct 2011 17:29:34 -0500
> Von: Norbert Thiebaud 

> 2011/10/26 André Schnabel :
> >
> > We had some discussion, if we should freeze again the membership
> process.
> > BoD should decide on that (I personally would not like to have again
> some
> > weeks where we do not accept new members, at the other hand it might be
> easy
> > to challenge the vote, if we don't freeze.)
> 
> 'Freezing' the membership does not necessarily means stop processing
> applications, but just that the list of eligible member for the
> election is 'frozen' at that date.

That's what I meant with "take a snapshot". 

For the BoD elections we agreed to not process membership applications
from start of nomination period until end of elections. Means, MC will
start to accept new members next monday again.

regards,

André

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Re: [steering-discuss] Preparing elections for the membership committee

[Thorsten Behrens]

Norbert Thiebaud wrote:
> 'Freezing' the membership does not necessarily means stop processing
> applications, but just that the list of eligible member for the
> election is 'frozen' at that date.
> The list of member can still grow, but people that get membershp after
> the freeze date are not eligible to vote in that election.
> 
I'd still suggest to suspend MC work during that time - sure, people
can still apply for membership, and sure, MC members can send out
receival confirmations. But since it's the very MC that is then
standing for election, I think it is standard practice that this
body cease to make decisions during that time.

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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Re: [steering-discuss] Preparing elections for the membership committee

[Florian Effenberger]

Hello,

Thorsten Behrens wrote on 2011-10-27 09:45:

I'd still suggest to suspend MC work during that time - sure, people
can still apply for membership, and sure, MC members can send out
receival confirmations. But since it's the very MC that is then
standing for election, I think it is standard practice that this
body cease to make decisions during that time.


I second that. It's not that I do not trust our MC, but I think it would 
be "cleaner" if we didn't have application processing during that time.


Florian

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Re: [steering-discuss] Preparing elections for the membership committee

[Florian Effenberger]

Hello,

André Schnabel wrote on 2011-10-26 21:48:


as we have discussed previously, the paragraphs about the membership
committee in the current statutes draft differ in some points from what
we have in the bylaws. I hope, I can provide a translation of the
relevant paragraphs early next week. But I want to have some discussion
on the matter already in the first BoD meeting.


a short summary from the last call:

- For the legal set-up of the foundation, we need the elected names. 
This would not happen before December 6th.


- In case we have authority approval for the foundation set-up before, 
this would delay the set-up until the 6th. (NB: When we will have 
authority approval is hard to predict, but more on that soon on a blogpost.)


- For the inital set-up of the foundation, the founder (German 
association of FrODeV) is free to name anyone for the MC. They will of 
course stick to the voting decision. As soon as the foundation is in 
place, however, we have to stick to the election rules set forth in our 
statues, and they foresee a 45 day advance notification period of the 
elections.


- In a nutshell, this means: We either can decide to nominate the 
current MC as the first MC and have a "gentlemen's agreement" that they 
step back as soon as the foundation is in place, leading to new 
elections about 45 days later on.


- Or we indeed wait until the current election is done and nominate 
those voted on for the first MC.


Although it might mean a delay, I tend to go for the latter option. This 
is much "cleaner", and as we don't know if we will have authority 
confirmation before the 6th, we're basically talking about a delay of 
2-4 weeks, so be it.


Thoughts?

Florian

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Re: [steering-discuss] Preparing elections for the membership committee

[David Emmerich Jourdain]

Hi,

2011/10/30 Florian Effenberger 

> Hello,
>
> André Schnabel wrote on 2011-10-26 21:48:
>
>  as we have discussed previously, the paragraphs about the membership
>> committee in the current statutes draft differ in some points from what we
>> have in the bylaws. I hope, I can provide a translation of the relevant
>> paragraphs early next week. But I want to have some discussion on the
>> matter already in the first BoD meeting.
>>
>
> a short summary from the last call:
>
> - For the legal set-up of the foundation, we need the elected names. This
> would not happen before December 6th.
>
> - In case we have authority approval for the foundation set-up before,
> this would delay the set-up until the 6th. (NB: When we will have authority
> approval is hard to predict, but more on that soon on a blogpost.)
>
> - For the inital set-up of the foundation, the founder (German association
> of FrODeV) is free to name anyone for the MC. They will of course stick to
> the voting decision. As soon as the foundation is in place, however, we
> have to stick to the election rules set forth in our statues, and they
> foresee a 45 day advance notification period of the elections.
>
> - In a nutshell, this means: We either can decide to nominate the current
> MC as the first MC and have a "gentlemen's agreement" that they step back
> as soon as the foundation is in place, leading to new elections about 45
> days later on.
>

IMHO, I don't see why can we not adopt this option. The current MC proved
that was (and is) impartial and deeply focused on meritocracy, essential
factors for an MC.

For me, the current MC proved that's fully deserving of this gentlemen's
agreement.

I vote for this option.

Best,

David


> - Or we indeed wait until the current election is done and nominate those
> voted on for the first MC.
>
> Although it might mean a delay, I tend to go for the latter option. This
> is much "cleaner", and as we don't know if we will have authority
> confirmation before the 6th, we're basically talking about a delay of 2-4
> weeks, so be it.
>
> Thoughts?
>
>
> Florian
>
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Re: [steering-discuss] Preparing elections for the membership committee

[Florian Effenberger]

Hi,

David Emmerich Jourdain wrote on 2011-10-30 16:28:

IMHO, I don't see why can we not adopt this option. The current MC proved
that was (and is) impartial and deeply focused on meritocracy, essential
factors for an MC.

For me, the current MC proved that's fully deserving of this gentlemen's
agreement.


I have full trust in the current MC, no doubts about that. The issue 
that makes me favor the other option (wait until the new MC is in place) 
is that it would avoid having elections very soon after the legal 
set-up, which is rather time consuming.


Florian

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Re: [steering-discuss] Preparing elections for the membership committee

[Norbert Thiebaud]

On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 10:28 AM, David Emmerich Jourdain
 wrote:
>
> IMHO, I don't see why can we not adopt this option. The current MC proved
> that was (and is) impartial and deeply focused on meritocracy, essential
> factors for an MC.
>
> For me, the current MC proved that's fully deserving of this gentlemen's
> agreement.

With the caveat that Thorsten must resign as MC-deputy, since one
cannot be BoD and MC member at once.

On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 10:33 AM, Florian Effenberger
 wrote:
>I have full trust in the current MC, no doubts about that. The issue that 
>makes me favor the other option (wait until the new MC is in place) is that it 
>would avoid having elections very soon after the legal set-up, which is rather 
>time consuming.

Maybe we can do with the current MC as 'initially designated' for the
first 6 month of the foundation and organize a MC election then, since
it would be a good idea to have BoD election and MC election somewhat
separated to avoid 'oversight'/'membership' issues.

Norbert

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Re: [steering-discuss] Preparing elections for the membership committee

[André Schnabel]

Hi,

Am 30.10.2011 17:09, schrieb Norbert Thiebaud:

Maybe we can do with the current MC as 'initially designated' for the
first 6 month of the foundation and organize a MC election then, since
it would be a good idea to have BoD election and MC election somewhat
separated to avoid 'oversight'/'membership' issues.


Seems reasonable to me - as long as there is a substitude for Thorsten 
and all of the other MC members agree to be on duty for another 6 months.


regards,

André

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Re: [steering-discuss] Preparing elections for the membership committee

[Sophie Gautier]

Hi,

2011/10/30 André Schnabel :
> Hi,
>
> Am 30.10.2011 17:09, schrieb Norbert Thiebaud:
>>
>> Maybe we can do with the current MC as 'initially designated' for the
>> first 6 month of the foundation and organize a MC election then, since
>> it would be a good idea to have BoD election and MC election somewhat
>> separated to avoid 'oversight'/'membership' issues.
>
> Seems reasonable to me - as long as there is a substitude for Thorsten and
> all of the other MC members agree to be on duty for another 6 months.

Agreed on both.

Kind regards
Sophie
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Re: [steering-discuss] Preparing elections for the membership committee

[Florian Effenberger]

Hi,

Norbert Thiebaud wrote on 2011-10-30 17:09:


With the caveat that Thorsten must resign as MC-deputy, since one
cannot be BoD and MC member at once.


good point, indeed. Thorsten, in case you get voted as election officer, 
would you step back from your MC deputy role?


Florian

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Re: [steering-discuss] Preparing elections for the membership committee

[Thorsten Behrens]

Florian Effenberger wrote:
> >With the caveat that Thorsten must resign as MC-deputy, since one
> >cannot be BoD and MC member at once.
> 
> good point, indeed. Thorsten, in case you get voted as election
> officer, would you step back from your MC deputy role?
> 
Hi Florian, all,

yes indeed, as a board member, I resign as Fridrich's MC deputy.

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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Re: [steering-discuss] Preparing elections for the membership committee

[Michael Meeks]

On Sun, 2011-10-30 at 13:28 -0200, David Emmerich Jourdain wrote:
> > - In a nutshell, this means: We either can decide to nominate the current
> > MC as the first MC and have a "gentlemen's agreement" that they step back
> > as soon as the foundation is in place, leading to new elections about 45
> > days later on.
>
> IMHO, I don't see why can we not adopt this option. The current MC proved
> that was (and is) impartial and deeply focused on meritocracy, essential
> factors for an MC.
> 
> For me, the current MC proved that's fully deserving of this gentlemen's
> agreement.

Agreed. I too prefer this for two reasons:

a) it -may- allow us to setup the foundation more quickly, at
   least we are not blocking on a fairly artificial timeline

b) it adds a staggered election into the process from founding,
   such that we are not electing the MC and the Board at the
   same time - which IMHO is critical anyway

So - I too would prefer to stick with the MC we have, and elect it
shortly after founding.

Then again - I'm agnostic on the point; if the founding is further
delayed, perhaps having an elected initial MC in place is fine.

ATB,

Michael.

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Re: [steering-discuss] Preparing elections for the membership committee

[Florian Effenberger]

Hello,

Michael Meeks wrote on 2011-10-31 11:41:


a) it -may- allow us to setup the foundation more quickly, at
   least we are not blocking on a fairly artificial timeline


I think if so, it just would delay two weeks, IMHO noncritical after 
this amount of time.



b) it adds a staggered election into the process from founding,
   such that we are not electing the MC and the Board at the
   same time - which IMHO is critical anyway


That's indeed a very good thing.


So - I too would prefer to stick with the MC we have, and elect it
shortly after founding.


So, we have two choices:

1. Either vote now and have a newly voted-on MC for the legal setup.

2. Keep the existing MC and they do a gentleman's agreement to step back 
by let's say June or July 1st next year.


Legally, it's no problem, since the Founder (FrODeV) simply nominates 
those who should be in charge, for elections thereafter, however, the 
official voting rules in the statutes are enforced.


However, for #2, we need either a replacement for Thorsten and a 
decision by the BoD to go with less MC members (even with Thorsten's 
replacement, the current MC only has 3 members and two deputies, but we 
would need five plus two), or a more MC members.


André, can you talk to the MC tonight and see what they prefer and make 
a proposal? If the BoD then votes on it, we should be good to go.


Florian

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Re: [steering-discuss] Preparing elections for the membership committee

[Florian Effenberger]

Hi,

to sum things up as I have an impression they are diesred:

- We would nominate Thorsten as election officer (who then would step 
back as MC deputy),

- and we would like to elect 5 members and 2 deputies in the new MC,
- and we don't want to freeze membership applications.

Please, all BoD members, cast your vote on these topics in case you 
haven't yet.


What we should agree on soon is whether to run the vote just now and 
wait with the legal set-up until the Foundation is in existence, or 
whether we take the existing MC (needing a deputy for Thorsten, since 
he's in the BoD already) and have a gentlemen's agreement that they step 
back on let's say effective July 1st.


I am in favor of this solution. André, did the MC discuss that during 
yesterday's call? In case we go with the July-1st-solution, all current 
MC members need to agree to be willing to serve in the legal body of the 
future Foundation and be mentioned in the founding documents.


I'm pushing here a bit since November 4th, on which your timeline is 
based, is close.


Florian

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Re: [steering-discuss] Preparing elections for the membership committee

[Olivier Hallot]

Em 01-11-2011 11:26, Florian Effenberger escreveu:

Hi,

to sum things up as I have an impression they are diesred:

- We would nominate Thorsten as election officer (who then would step 
back as MC deputy),


+1


- and we would like to elect 5 members and 2 deputies in the new MC,


+1


- and we don't want to freeze membership applications.


+1



Please, all BoD members, cast your vote on these topics in case you 
haven't yet.


What we should agree on soon is whether to run the vote just now and 
wait with the legal set-up until the Foundation is in existence, or 
whether we take the existing MC (needing a deputy for Thorsten, since 
he's in the BoD already) and have a gentlemen's agreement that they 
step back on let's say effective July 1st.


I am in favor of this solution. André, did the MC discuss that during 
yesterday's call? In case we go with the July-1st-solution, all 
current MC members need to agree to be willing to serve in the legal 
body of the future Foundation and be mentioned in the founding documents.


I'm pushing here a bit since November 4th, on which your timeline is 
based, is close.


Florian



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Re: [steering-discuss] Preparing elections for the membership committee

[Thorsten Behrens]

Florian Effenberger wrote:
> - and we would like to elect 5 members and 2 deputies in the new MC,
+1

> - and we don't want to freeze membership applications.
+1 (going with the flow :))

> take the existing MC (needing a deputy for Thorsten,
> since he's in the BoD already) and have a gentlemen's agreement that
> they step back on let's say effective July 1st.
+1
 
Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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Re: [steering-discuss] Preparing elections for the membership committee

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
I have assumed that Thorsten has not stepped down from MC or something.  
Whatever he was stepping down from was in order for him to be able to do some 
work that he is being blocked from doing anyway right?  So until the job needs 
to be started i think Thorsten is still on whatever it was he was going to step 
down from.

Sorry, i just got a bit muddled.  
Regards from
Tom :)


--- On Tue, 1/11/11, Thorsten Behrens  wrote:

> From: Thorsten Behrens 
> Subject: Re: [steering-discuss] Preparing elections for the membership 
> committee
> To: "Florian Effenberger" 
> Cc: steering-discuss@documentfoundation.org
> Date: Tuesday, 1 November, 2011, 14:23
> Florian Effenberger wrote:
> > - and we would like to elect 5 members and 2 deputies
> in the new MC,
> +1
> 
> > - and we don't want to freeze membership
> applications.
> +1 (going with the flow :))
> 
> > take the existing MC (needing a deputy for Thorsten,
> > since he's in the BoD already) and have a gentlemen's
> agreement that
> > they step back on let's say effective July 1st.
> +1
>  
> Cheers,
> 
> -- Thorsten
> 
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Re: [steering-discuss] Preparing elections for the membership committee

[Italo Vignoli]

> On Tue, 2011-11-01 at 14:26 +0100, Florian Effenberger wrote:

>> - We would nominate Thorsten as election officer (who then would step 
>> back as MC deputy),

+1

>> - and we would like to elect 5 members and 2 deputies in the new MC,

+1

>> - and we don't want to freeze membership applications.

+1

>> we take the existing MC (needing a deputy for Thorsten, since 
>> he's in the BoD already) and have a gentlemen's agreement that they step 
>> back on let's say effective July 1st.

OK

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Re: [steering-discuss] Preparing elections for the membership committee

[Norbert Thiebaud]

On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 9:37 AM, Tom Davies  wrote:
> Hi :)
> I have assumed that Thorsten has not stepped down from MC or something.  
> Whatever he was stepping down from was in order for him to be able to do some 
> work that he is being blocked from doing anyway right?  So until the job 
> needs to be started i think Thorsten is still on whatever it was he was going 
> to step down from.
>
> Sorry, i just got a bit muddled.

The MC is in charge of supervising the BoD election so clearly someone
running for a BoD possition cannot be member of the MC
The MC is in charge of supervising "Solemn Address and Impeachment of
the Board of Directors". again that create a conflict of interest if
one is allowed to be BoD member and MC member.

So, MC membership and BoD membership and candidacy are mutually exclusive.
This has been overlooked during this election cycle. Thorsthen should
have resigned of his MC position as soon as he declared his intention
to run for a BoD position.
I don;t think that there is any suspicion that this 'irregularity' had
any impact on the election, and clearly Thorsten election and behavior
are beyond reproach.
Still, The forms do matter, and even the impression of impropriety can
create un-welcomed drama/suspiction/FUD etc...
Hence the necessity to rectify the situation, hence Thorsten stepping
down from his MC responsibilities.

Does that clarifies it  ?


Norbert

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Re: [steering-discuss] Preparing elections for the membership committee

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Yes, thanks :)  I thought there was an impending problem rather than an 
existing problem.  I doubt anyone here minds and even the most determined drone 
would have trouble trying to state a case even if there were an objection.  So, 
it's all good 
Regards from
Tom :)

  

--- On Tue, 1/11/11, Norbert Thiebaud  wrote:

> From: Norbert Thiebaud 
> Subject: Re: [steering-discuss] Preparing elections for the membership 
> committee
> To: steering-discuss@documentfoundation.org
> Date: Tuesday, 1 November, 2011, 15:16
> On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 9:37 AM, Tom
> Davies 
> wrote:
> > Hi :)
> > I have assumed that Thorsten has not stepped down from
> MC or something.  Whatever he was stepping down from was in
> order for him to be able to do some work that he is being
> blocked from doing anyway right?  So until the job needs to
> be started i think Thorsten is still on whatever it was he
> was going to step down from.
> >
> > Sorry, i just got a bit muddled.
> 
> The MC is in charge of supervising the BoD election so
> clearly someone
> running for a BoD possition cannot be member of the MC
> The MC is in charge of supervising "Solemn Address and
> Impeachment of
> the Board of Directors". again that create a conflict of
> interest if
> one is allowed to be BoD member and MC member.
> 
> So, MC membership and BoD membership and candidacy are
> mutually exclusive.
> This has been overlooked during this election cycle.
> Thorsthen should
> have resigned of his MC position as soon as he declared his
> intention
> to run for a BoD position.
> I don;t think that there is any suspicion that this
> 'irregularity' had
> any impact on the election, and clearly Thorsten election
> and behavior
> are beyond reproach.
> Still, The forms do matter, and even the impression of
> impropriety can
> create un-welcomed drama/suspiction/FUD etc...
> Hence the necessity to rectify the situation, hence
> Thorsten stepping
> down from his MC responsibilities.
> 
> Does that clarifies it  ?
> 
> 
> Norbert
> 
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