Re:Independence Day
I guess it didn't occur to me to start a thread about that... July 1 marked the 136th anniversary of the passing of the British North America Act that established Canada as a nation. It is known as Canada Day (although there is a small movement that wishes to change the name back to the original Dominion Day). Anyway, happy 4th of July! -J - Original Message - From: Martin Malmkvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: David Brin Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 6:18 AM Subject: SV: Independence Day Sure. I meant to wish everybody a happy 4th of July (I also hope my 4th of July will be good, but its not special to me), but that came to me too late. The mail was already sent, and I didn't want to spam the list. Besides, I didn't realise that this was a special day for the Canadians as well. Happa Canada Day to all Canadians :D Med Venlig Hilsen / Sincerely Martin Malmkvist -- Behold the monster with the pointed tail. Who cleaves the hills and breaketh walls and weapons. Behold Him who infecteth all the World. - Dante: The Inferno, verse 17 --- [Sponsored by:] _ The newest lyrics on the Net! http://lyrics.astraweb.com Click NOW! [Sponsored by:] _ The newest lyrics on the Net! http://lyrics.astraweb.com Click NOW!
Re:Re:Re:Re:It's not just Bowie, or is it?
Why do so many europeans want to leave the discussion just when it get's down to the details? You know? You get over the usual yelling and screeming, down to the point where you are just starting to be able to form some kind of consistent model, and the europeans loose intrest. Could it be that they don't like what is -in- the details? Could it be that they know what you will dind there? Or are they so unmoveable from their opinions that they don't want to focus when it get's to the point that those opinons are chalanged? Such statements would also be conductive to anti-American sentiment. I was able to form (what I believe to be) a consistent model of the tolerance in europe and the US, and to describe the interaction of components in that model. I also beleive that this model shows the superior effectiveness of tolerance in America. But I have heard no agreement or disagreement. By your silence can I assume that you agree? I for one find that theories that reduce complex human interactions to simple models (thus cutting out a remarkable amount of detail) are generally rather troubling. Perhaps that is just egoism, though. -J [Sponsored by:] _ The newest lyrics on the Net! http://lyrics.astraweb.com Click NOW!
Re:Re:Re:Re:It's not just Bowie, or is it?
Regardless of their political views, our elected leaders to be reasonable and intelligent people. They know very well that if they screw up, they'll pay the price for that at the next election. Does the American public actually have any idea about how we perceive your extreme distrust of government and anything that reeks of government involvement? No please explain. Besides as someoen who has a website and list dedicated to DB, and knowing DBs opinons on Otherness and a healthy distrust of governement I would liek to hear your opinons. We distrust governement becouse nearly all of us were, or have ancestors who were burned by one governement or another (even the USA). So I would not say that our distrust is unwarented. Why should we care what your perception of our governemtnal distrust is? Didn't this whole thread start out as an attempt to better understand why Americans sometimes regard themselves as being mistreated in foreign countries? Could this not be a matter of the perception of this governmental mistrust? -J [Sponsored by:] _ The newest lyrics on the Net! http://lyrics.astraweb.com Click NOW!
Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It's not just Bowie, or is it?
Regardless of their political views, our elected leaders to be reasonable and intelligent people. They know very well that if they screw up, they'll pay the price for that at the next election. Does the American public actually have any idea about how we perceive your extreme distrust of government and anything that reeks of government involvement? No please explain. Besides as someoen who has a website and list dedicated to DB, and knowing DBs opinons on Otherness and a healthy distrust of governement I would liek to hear your opinons. We distrust governement becouse nearly all of us were, or have ancestors who were burned by one governement or another (even the USA). So I would not say that our distrust is unwarented. Why should we care what your perception of our governemtnal distrust is? Didn't this whole thread start out as an attempt to better understand why Americans sometimes regard themselves as being mistreated in foreign countries? Could this not be a matter of the perception of this governmental mistrust? Something of that sort. It was more, what do Europeans have against us. This thread was an attempt for each side to better understand eachother. But in any event, you are correct. It could make a difference in this reguard. But once again. it comes back to an inherent ownes of acceptance. A Eropean may say you should change your method of interacting with us becouse we see you as being paranoid becouse you don't trust governemnts. Or some such thing -please correct this statment if you feel the need-. But the point is this may sound like the appropriate and correct thing for someoen outside (like an alien or something) who shares the ethical model of Europe. I would say that the situation is not so simplistic. If Americans do not trust governments in general, then when in a foreign country, they would be mistrusting of the duly elected representatives of the people who they put their trust in. By extension, they would be saying that these people do not know how to govern themselves, which can be quite insulting. This goes beyond mere cultural understanding, I'd say. But that's just my view. It still seems to me that the level of violence in the United States is not something that one would expect from a supposedly tolerant country. And need I mention freedom fries? Put quite clearly we are not paranoid. We have a very recent example which we can reference. The UN had 3 resolutions (the numbers escape me at the moment, two in the 600 range and, I beleive, 1441) in any even we made strategic decisions based on these resolutions as if they were international -law-. We were willing to, once again, be the inforcement of this law. But when that time came, we were put in a precarious position by several countries renigging on that law. It would seem then that our distrust of athority is once again supported. So you're not paranoid; you just mistrust all governments? -J [Sponsored by:] _ The newest lyrics on the Net! http://lyrics.astraweb.com Click NOW!
Re:ICC was Re:It's not just Bowie, or is it?
Okay... If Outlook Express crashes before I finish writing this message, I will give up and not bother replying. One might argue that the Vietnamese were not using herbicides so extensively at the time, and certainly never asked to have it forced upon them in such quantities. Which Vietnamese would that be? Were there any Vietnamese who were willing and capable of seeking out such advanced agricultural technology? What you will learn is that federal chriminal law is a very fragile creature. The only reason that our system works is becouse we have seperate bodies of governemnt. Legislative making the laws, Executive inforcing the laws, and Judicial judging the law in practice. Each of these branches is equaly as powerful. Without such a system federalization of criminal (or other) law would have too many issues to be maintainable. There is a three sided system of checks and balances. Sure this makes things move slowly. We may know that one thing or another is broken, but we also know that slaping on a solution is going to break something else. It is a natural system (if your a proggrammer, spegetti code) and it has to be that way. Why? becouse if it were any other way it would resemble the facism or communism or totalitarianism that failed in the last century. Can it not be said that a lot of this is ultimately under the control of the rich? Another thing is that our government today is not the same government we had 20 years ago. It changes. This is sometimes hard for others to understand. You may blame the US governement for some small decision made 30 or 40 years ago, and we will recognize it. It is nothing new. We are constantly metating our governemnt to make it better, it does not supprise us that the governement of the past did something we find distastefull today. But it doesn't bother us either if we have already fixed it. At the same time we know that the gerneral structure is sound becouse things do continue to get better. snip And yes we think our way is better. And we also think that it is obvious. We are arogant becouse of what we have done. We are the outsiders, the lost, the shuned, the exiled, the escaped, the opressed, the tierd and hungry and we have risen to the top. These two paragraphs seem to be contradictory. Our ancestors were correct when they told your ancestors that their way was better, and now we have prooven that it is in fact better. Your ancestors shuned ours and now look what we have acomplished. I'm sure that does piss you off, but you know if you were smart it wouldn't. If you were smart you would recognize it for what it is. France did for a while. We don't expect every other country to be a carbon copy of the US, that would be a shame and it would be boring. But we do expect others to recognize when we have made some better decisions, some need to grow up and stop acting like children. In my tribe there is a folkeway that allows for a child to take a new name when they become an adult. After that, expression they are treated as an adult. Before that expression they are treated as children. I think the US is waiting for some countries to step up and be adults. This is probably cuase for much anti-americanism. But you know what, we as a people are use to it. That's why our ancestors left your countries in the first place. Well, if you're used to it, why are you complaining? If this is a representative attitude of the American people, why are you surprised that people in these countries that are acting like children are resentful towards tourists? Maybe the American way is best (I have no idea). Other countries also have their own ways and probably have many people who feel just as strongly that their way is best and probably resent it when someone comes along and tells them that they're all wrong. -J [Sponsored by:] _ The newest lyrics on the Net! http://lyrics.astraweb.com Click NOW!
Re:Question
Yep, I'm receiving a copy of every message I send out. Perhaps you just need to wait a minute? -J - Original Message - From: Reggie Bautista [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: David Brin Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 12:52 PM Subject: Question I've sent some messages to the list but haven't seen any of them yet. Does this list send copies of messages sent to list to the sender of those messages? If not, could someone please forward the messages I've sent back to me at this email address? Thanks, Reggie Bautista _ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail [Sponsored by:] _ The newest lyrics on the Net! http://lyrics.astraweb.com Click NOW! [Sponsored by:] _ The newest lyrics on the Net! http://lyrics.astraweb.com Click NOW!
