Re: Gulags L3
On 7/1/05, Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Gary Denton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Answering your thoughtful post. Then it would seem that all AQ has to answer is name rank and serial number, right? I don't think so. What is prohibited is usually considered, based on article 130: grave breaches to which the preceding Article relates shall be those involving any of the following acts, if committed against persons or property protected by the Convention: willful killing, torture or inhuman treatment, including biological experiments, willfully causing great suffering or serious injury to body or health, compelling a prisoner of war to serve in the forces of the hostile Power, or willfully depriving a prisoner of war of the rights of fair and regular trial prescribed in this Convention. That would mean things that are not torture and is not causing great suffering or serious injury to body or health might be permitted depending on how far you go. A lot of the debate within officials with long experience and the new political appointees based on leaked memos are explorations as to what extent techniques like water boarding (drowning without killing) and sleep deprivation and long periods of times in uncomfortable positions (that actually do cause long-term damage) and techniques that are extremely painful but leave no permanent damage (electrodes anyone?) are lawful. Do we really want to explore this? You want to interrogate someone - should you have the guards rough up the prisoners for several days before the interrogation as long as they leave no permanent physical scars? Several of the people released after over a year and never charged have long-term disabilities now. No carrot, no stick at all, is the way I read the Geneva Conventions on POWs. Is that what you think should be the case? I think that must come from the controversial Article 17 - No physical or mental torture, nor any other form of coercion, may be inflicted on prisoners of war to secure from them information of any kind whatever. Prisoners of war who refuse to answer may not be threatened, insulted, or exposed to any unpleasant or disadvantageous treatment of any kind. This does not preclude classic plea bargaining - that is, the offer of leniency in return for cooperation - or other incentives. Plea bargaining and related incentives has been used repeatedly with success to induce cooperation from members of other violent criminal enterprises such as the Mafia or drug traffickers. Unpleasant results... I am opposed to using torture in the name of democracy. I am wondering if you are minimizing or are truly unaware of some of the things classified under unpleasant results which in places outside of Gitmo have included torturing people to death. No, I'm not doing that. I'm trying to obtain first and understanding of what has been going on, and then trying to form a reasonable opinion about it. I don't think that when the Geneva Convention talks about unpleasantness that they were using a euphemism for torture. I took it as, well, unpleasantness. For example, you could not interrupt the sleep of people who aren't talking. You couldn't change their diet from a tasty one to one that is nutritious, follows their dietary laws, but is rather tasteless and bland. You couldn't impose solitary confinement for refusing to talk. You couldn't shine lights in their cell. 1st - I think historically article 17 has not been interpreted strictly. 2nd - Who do you want to cause unpleasantness to and why? 3rd To what degree do you want to cause unpleasantness? 4th - Is there any evidence this unpleasantness is effective? 5th Aren't there undesirable consequence to using these techniques, in the reliability of information obtained, in brutalizing our guards as well as the prisoners, in our standards of decency, in the world's opinion of us, in God's eyes? 6th A long history of research in torture and brutal interrogation techniques shows it is not effective. What might be called plea bargaining deals and a long process of extracting information in a relatively cooperative atmosphere has been shown to be much more accurate. Basically, it appears that prisoners should be as well treated as one's own soldiers until the war is over. You can't even refuse them cigarettes as a means of getting them to talk. That's what I'm referring to when I write of unpleasantness. And where did you find this interpretation? I eventually found article 17 in looking through the articles. The killing of prisoners who are not engaged in life threatening activities (e.g. an armed prison riot) is not acceptable. Torturing prisoners is not acceptable; particularly ones that are not likely to have information that can save hundreds or thousands of lives. The actions depicted in the Time report looks to be on the borderline to me. That's why I copied the details of that and asked
Re: The Oldest American?
On Wed, 6 Jul 2005 12:02:28 -0700 Warren wrote: Maybe the earliest settlers came over in skin boats? Were washed out to sea by a typhoon and fetched up on the shores of, say, what's now Chile? After all the Polynesians were astoundingly good seafarers. It's not that far from Rapa Nui to the continent, if you've already crossed the Pacific island chains. -- ...especially if one has the balls to do it.. LeonardMatusik [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l - Discover Yahoo! Use Yahoo! to plan a weekend, have fun online more. Check it out! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Oldest American?
Julia Thompson wrote: BTW: the article says that Luiza is pt_BR version of Lucy, and this is wrong [Lucy becomes Lucia, Luiza is a different name] Luiza would maybe be Louise or Louisa? That's my guess, anyway Yep. And Julia is Julia :-) Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Oldest American?
Warren Ockrassa wrote: Maybe the earliest settlers came over in skin boats? Were washed out to sea by a typhoon and fetched up on the shores of, say, what's now Chile? After all the Polynesians were astoundingly good seafarers. It's not that far from Rapa Nui to the continent, if you've already crossed the Pacific island chains. I would bet the same way Pedro Alvares Cabral allegedly[*] came: by navigating away from African's coast, being caught in the Brazilian Sea Current, and hitting Brazil's Northeast. Alberto Monteiro [*] the official version is that he came here by accident - but skeptics doubted it even back in 1500. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Oldest American?
On Jul 7, 2005, at 2:33 PM, Alberto Monteiro wrote: Julia Thompson wrote: BTW: the article says that Luiza is pt_BR version of Lucy, and this is wrong [Lucy becomes Lucia, Luiza is a different name] Luiza would maybe be Louise or Louisa? That's my guess, anyway Yep. And Julia is Julia :-) And may be pronounced HOO-lee-ah or YOO-lee-ah. Dave ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Oldest American?
Gary Denton wrote: The problem with any new theory is old professors who made their reputations on the old theories and control research grants and publication usually until they die off. No, the problem with any new theory is that it was probably proposed by some loony outsider who knows nothing about the old theory, and doesn't fear being ridiculed. For each 1,000 crazy theories, one [or less] comes true. Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Oldest American?
Dave Land wrote: Yep. And Julia is Julia :-) And may be pronounced HOO-lee-ah or YOO-lee-ah. No. This is Spanish pronunciation. Brazilian _J-_ sounds like French. Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Oldest American?
On Jul 7, 2005, at 2:43 PM, Alberto Monteiro wrote: Dave Land wrote: Yep. And Julia is Julia :-) And may be pronounced HOO-lee-ah or YOO-lee-ah. No. This is Spanish pronunciation. Brazilian _J-_ sounds like French. So it's a kind of ZHOO-lee-ah, I guess? I had a friend who spent some time in Brazil who told me that the R in Rio is pronounced something like the American H. Was she full of it? Dave ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Oldest American?
Dave Land wrote: No. This is Spanish pronunciation. Brazilian _J-_ sounds like French. So it's a kind of ZHOO-lee-ah, I guess? Yes - whatever ZH means :-) I had a friend who spent some time in Brazil who told me that the R in Rio is pronounced something like the American H. Was she full of it? She is half right, because Portuguese has two different _r_ sounds. Words like caro and carro are different words, and pronounced differently. The first one sounds like Italian, Spanish, or Austrian-German _r_. The second one sounds like French or German _r_. It's the second one that becomes the _h_. Alberto [*] Monteiro [*] sounds like Aw-beh-to :-) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Oldest American?
Alberto Monteiro wrote: Dave Land wrote: Yep. And Julia is Julia :-) And may be pronounced HOO-lee-ah or YOO-lee-ah. No. This is Spanish pronunciation. Brazilian _J-_ sounds like French. I like the French pronunciation better than the Spanish one. My Spanish teacher in high school called me Juliana (with proper Spanish pronunciation, of course). I think she just liked saying that better than saying Julia. :) Neither Spanish nor English was her first language, but she was fluent in Spanish and not quite fluent in English. (Some weird constructions, such as conditionals, she used Spanish grammar and English words, which sounded a little weird, but I learned the Spanish conditional more easily because she did that.) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Fwd: Top5 - 7/7/05 - Things You Don't Want to Hear From Tech Support
== Betcha can't read just one. T H E T O P 5 L I S T http://www.topfive.com == July 7, 2005 Today's list was originally published on January 28, 1997. The Top 5 Things You Don't Want to Hear From Tech Support 5 I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that. 4 In layman's terms, we call that the Hindenburg Effect. 3 Hold on a second... Mom! Timmy's hitting me! 2 Okay, turn to page 523 in your copy of 'Dianetics.' and TopFive.com's Number 1 Thing You Don't Want to Hear From Tech Support... 1 Please hold for Mr. Gates' attorney. Join ClubTop5 to see the whole 15-item list! http://www.topfive.com/html/clubtop5.shtml [ The Top 5 List www.topfive.com ] [ Copyright 1997, 2005 by Chris White ] == Selected from 83 submissions from 31 contributors. Today's Top Five List authors are: -- George Olson, Colorado Springs, CO-- 1 (9th #1) R.M. Weiner, Brighton, MA -- 2 John Voigt, Chicago, IL -- 3 Alan Smithee, Sugar Land, TX -- 4 Jeff Downey, Raleigh, NC -- 5 Chris White, New York, NY -- List owner/editor == Rumination of the Day If I had the chance to go on The Jerry Springer Show, I would kill everyone I know the night before, so that when Jerry says, Well, Andrew, we've got a surprise for you, I could say, No, Jerry -- I have a surprise for you!! (Andrew) To subscribe to Ruminations: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == Copyright 2005 by Chris White All rights reserved. Do not publish or broadcast without permission. -- To subscribe, send e-mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe: Click on the EASY UNSUBSCRIBE link below. Address changes? Problems? General bitching? Lonely? Let us know: http://www.topfive.com/contact.shtml -- T H E T O P 5 L I S T TOPFIVE -- The Web's Best Original Humor http://www.topfive.com == Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: --- Need a Laptop? Get a Sony Vaio Laptop Free! http://click.topica.com/caadHlxclvXASbpbeb3f/ProductTestPanel --- ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Oldest American?
At 04:35 PM Thursday 7/7/2005, Dave Land wrote: On Jul 7, 2005, at 2:33 PM, Alberto Monteiro wrote: Julia Thompson wrote: BTW: the article says that Luiza is pt_BR version of Lucy, and this is wrong [Lucy becomes Lucia, Luiza is a different name] Luiza would maybe be Louise or Louisa? That's my guess, anyway Yep. And Julia is Julia :-) And may be pronounced HOO-lee-ah or YOO-lee-ah. Particularly during the months of Hoon and Hooly . . . -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Oldest American?
At 04:41 PM Thursday 7/7/2005, Alberto Monteiro wrote: Gary Denton wrote: The problem with any new theory is old professors who made their reputations on the old theories and control research grants and publication usually until they die off. No, the problem with any new theory is that it was probably proposed by some loony outsider who knows nothing about the old theory, and doesn't fear being ridiculed. For each 1,000 crazy theories, one [or less] comes true. Or C. Both of the above. The Looney Outsider Was Often A Respected Insider Until He Disagreed With The PTB Maru -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Oldest American?
At 05:38 PM Thursday 7/7/2005, Julia Thompson wrote: Alberto Monteiro wrote: Dave Land wrote: Yep. And Julia is Julia :-) And may be pronounced HOO-lee-ah or YOO-lee-ah. No. This is Spanish pronunciation. Brazilian _J-_ sounds like French. I like the French pronunciation better than the Spanish one. My Spanish teacher in high school called me Juliana (with proper Spanish pronunciation, of course). I think she just liked saying that better than saying Julia. :) Neither Spanish nor English was her first language, What was? but she was fluent in Spanish and not quite fluent in English. (Some weird constructions, such as conditionals, she used Spanish grammar and English words, which sounded a little weird, but I learned the Spanish conditional more easily because she did that.) Curious Maru -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Oldest American?
Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 05:38 PM Thursday 7/7/2005, Julia Thompson wrote: Alberto Monteiro wrote: Dave Land wrote: Yep. And Julia is Julia :-) And may be pronounced HOO-lee-ah or YOO-lee-ah. No. This is Spanish pronunciation. Brazilian _J-_ sounds like French. I like the French pronunciation better than the Spanish one. My Spanish teacher in high school called me Juliana (with proper Spanish pronunciation, of course). I think she just liked saying that better than saying Julia. :) Neither Spanish nor English was her first language, What was? Greek. She was born in Greece, studied in Spain at one point. She was quite a character. (And it's too darn late for me to elaborate; one of the better stories that I have would take too long for me to type at this point.) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Software installation progress
I think I've got all the software installed except the genealogical program. And I got pictures off my digital camera and onto my Palm this evening. :) (Got some nice ones of each of the kids in the last few days. Well, one great one of each, and some nice action shots.) And we send the defective hard drive back tomorrow. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
