Re: Adressing Global Warming
Ronn! Blankenship wrote: Yeah, bwana, an whail we remane poor and unpoluising, we coze no poblema to the envrinoment. Just to be clear: you speak (or at least write) English well. That's natural: English is almost a second language, professionally it sometimes becomes the first language, and I write in English from 10% to 25% of everything I write. Reading English takes even a higher percentage. And obviously have enough money to have a computer. That's not an obvious consequence. I could be writing from my job's computer (not mine), or from Web Cafés. (TTBOMK I have never seen you so I have no information concerning the other item. :)) FWIW, I am melanine challenged, which is an environmental risk for someone living in the Tropics. I avoid the Sun as much as I can, which is very difficult. The point, however, is that you seldom hear of any rich, white, American environmentalists offering to stop polluting and green the planet by composting themselves . . . ;) Aren't enviromentalists like anyone else? Brazilian environmentalists who live in Rio or São Paulo (2500 km away from the Rain Forest) are very talkative about protecting the Rain Forest, while those that live right there in the hot spot usually are more concerned about bringing themselves to the consumer society. A recent issue was raised by a general that works with native brazilians in Roraima [NB: if you have no idea where or what is Roraima, don't be too worried: probably most brazilians don't know either]. Most environmentalists want to protect the natives, keeping their culture and traditions. The natives want to buy cars, mp3 players, computers, etc. Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Adressing Global Warming
On 28/04/2008, at 1:48 AM, Alberto Vieira Ferreira Monteiro wrote: Charlie Bell wrote: Seriously, if we want to save the planet, domestic solar power should be banned! People should live and work in the smallest possible area, and it means packing families in huge buildings. Solar hot water, not solar electric. Black pipes in a glass cabinet on the roof. Does it matter? Yes, if you want a hot shower. The more area of the surface each family takes, less surface is available to the environment. People can live well in packed spaces, wildlife can't. Even tower blocks in Cyprus had solar hot water. So, it's immoral to allow people to live in houses with gardens and pools. And what if my garden doesn't have a pool, but does have food growing in it? Charlie. Organic Vegetables Grown At Point Of Consumption Maru ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Adressing Global Warming
In a message dated 4/27/2008 6:37:07 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The point, however, is that you seldom hear of any rich, white, American environmentalists offering to stop polluting and green the planet by composting themselves . . . ;) . . . ronn! :) I pay no attention to anyone who talks about Global Warming without mentioning Abbot Charles Greeley 431 titles via Addall.com/used Then search again with sunspot or solar variation for the title. Zero. It's a Men In Black conspiracy, I tell ya. So what if the sun has an 11 3/4 year peak energy cycle. That's a 91 year cycle for peak solar output to hit the Pacific at just the right time. Gotta go now--there's a knock at t Vilyehm **Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp0030002851) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Longshot has a point....
As for the runway... upwind landings must be tricky. Nick On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 3:09 PM, Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://longshot14.livejournal.com/914186.html He's blogging about a North Korean military installation being captured on a satellite image by Google Earth, and what that reminds him of. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l -- Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Messages: 408-904-7198 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: What were they thinking? (MS Office 2007)
Heh, I'm definitely _not_ going to get in a text editor religious war with you along the lines of emacs is evil; why it should be eradicated, however true that may be. :-). Personally, when I don't use vim, I use BBEdit, and have done for more than a decade. Over my 20-odd years as a Mac user, I've used BBEdit almost exclusively. Vim came into regular use in the last couple of years, because a co-worker and I have written a bunch of scripts that help us be productive in our company's codebase. Dave On Apr 27, 2008, at 6:18 PM, William T Goodall wrote: On 24 Apr 2008, at 19:08, Dave Land wrote: If only because nobody makes money from vi, it hasn't been fscked- around with over the years. If you learned to use vi on a VT-52 hooked up to a PDP-11, as I did, then today's Mac OS X copy of Vim (VI iMproved) is as familiar as you'd want it to be. I never liked vi although vim was better. I mostly used to use Emacs but my favourite text editor now is TextMate on OS X. http://macromates.com/ Worth every penny Maru -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ Computers in the future may weigh no more than 1.5 tons. - Popular Mechanics, forecasting the relentless march of science, 1949 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Looking for the mouse
Excellent, excellent article posted on Slashdot today: http://www.herecomeseverybody.org/2008/04/looking-for-the-mouse.html Clay Shirky has been giving talks on his book Here Comes Everybody - his masterpiece, per Cory Doctorow - and BoingBoing picks up one of http://www.boingboing.net/2008/04/27/death-of-the-sitcom.html them, from the Web 2.0 conference. Shirky has come up with a quantification http://www.herecomeseverybody.org/2008/04/looking-for-the-mouse.html of the attention that TV has been absorbing for more than half a century. Shirky defines as a unit of attention the Wikipedia: 100 million person-hours of thought. As a society we have been burning 2,000 Wikipedias per year watching mostly sitcoms. We're stopping now. Here's a video of another http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/interactive/events/2008/02/shirky information-dense Shirky talk, this one at Harvard. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Global Warming
The point, however, is that you seldom hear of any rich, white, American environmentalists offering to stop polluting and green the planet by composting themselves . . . ;) . . . ronn! :) poor dark skinned people pollute less, but there are more of them, and rich white people don't want others sharing our comparatively high living standard. . . . jon! :) Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Global Warming
Seriously, if we want to save the planet, domestic solar power should be banned! People should live and work in the smallest possible area and it means packing families in huge buildings. Alberto Monteiro i like the arcology model: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcosanti jon mann Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
culling the species
I believe that a major die off is inevitable. (including humanity, which could be a good thing for the planet). the causes will include famine, disease, war and natural disasters, etc. unfortunately, the ethnic cleansing will occur mostly in undeveloped countries. the worst case scenario would be a breakdown in the food chain, perhaps starting in the oceans, that may threaten all life on earth. personally, i care more about the extinction of plant and animal species than humanity. billions of years ago life on earth switched from primeval anaerobic respiration (without oxygen) to aerobic (oxygen respiration). could it happen again, or perhaps to a methane atmosphere, or something even stranger? a best case scenario is the singularity will save us, or civilization will survive in pockets, depending on location, and condition where the infrastructure is more developed. at the very least the survivors will have to adapt to a reduced lifestyle. if the infrastructure suffers a sudden crash, which may happen in some cities there will be panic, chaos and death. i doubt it will be that sudden unless there is a disaster on the order of a 10.0 earthquake, thermonuclear war, or asteroid impact. when transportation systems start to break down i expect it will be a gradual process (in the developed countries) and there will be a transition from air and truck cargo, to rail and ship distribution. automobiles will have much higher emission and mileage standards and will be heavily taxed based on mpg. gasoline will also be heavily taxed and the revenues will be invested in cheap, eco-friendly, rapid mass transit. technology has made conspicuous consumption possible and the collapse of that market will make the dot.com crash look like a minor adjustment. i look forward to a drastic reduction in materialism and greed. what we do with technology is what matters and i believe the profit motive will be replaced by more research in clean technology, which just may save western civilization and force people to reuse, recycle and reduce consumption. a crisis in the water supply will force people to stop watering their lawns, etc. there will still be enough water to drink (except in countries where there is already a critical water shortage). priorities will be given to necessities, and luxury items will no longer be produced on the scale industrialized nations are accustomed to. that will be a good thing because it will put the brakes on conspicuous consumption and planned obsolescence. mega-capitalists, like bill gates, will become public scapegoats, along with the automobile and oil companies, etc. the plutocrats will be coerced and regulated into producing green products. remaining resources will be rationed. we can see it happening already with inflation forcing people to reduce their spending on non essential items. this election in america should mark a major change in voter awareness that war has been the wrong course. there is hope we can undo the damage from bush/cheney and change direction. hopefully, an all out emphasis on solar, wind, tidal, geothermal and other renewable energy alternatives.if obama is nominated, all bets are off. i believe there may well be a racial backlash and mc cain could win. that will mean a continuation of many of the bush policies, even though the last eight years have been the most disastrous in history. if the western world goes into a super depression, the chinese will lose their biggest markets, but by then they will be already suffering from the pollution and other consequences of rapid industrialization. their government already does very little to curb the steadily increasing cancer rates, etc. they may or may not start sequestering carbon emission from their coal plants, once that technology is developed. police states will emerge all over the world. jon Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Adressing Global Warming
Ronn! wrote: The point, however, is that you seldom hear of any rich, white, American environmentalists offering to stop polluting and green the planet by composting themselves . . . ;) The message I'm getting is that you think environmentalists are inherently racist, but that seems to be a rather bizarre opinion. Care to set me straight? Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Adressing Global Warming
- Original Message - From: Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 6:14 AM Subject: Re: Adressing Global Warming Ronn! wrote: The point, however, is that you seldom hear of any rich, white, American environmentalists offering to stop polluting and green the planet by composting themselves . . . ;) The message I'm getting is that you think environmentalists are inherently racist, but that seems to be a rather bizarre opinion. Care to set me straight? Doug Seems to me, he is just pointing out the irony in the fact that the Green Movement is a product of affluence which is a product of technology. And more specifically that the Green movement is antipathetic to the technology that has given them the time and resources to become environmentally aware. Am I right? Regards, Wayne Eddy. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Looking for the mouse
On 4/28/08, Curtis Burisch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Excellent, excellent article posted on Slashdot today: http://www.herecomeseverybody.org/2008/04/looking-for-the-mouse.html That was a truly insightful article. Thanks for sharing. And for those who might be avoiding the article because they think the mouse in the URL refers to Disney, don't worry, it refers to a computer mouse. And a four-year-old girl. And a DVD player. Trust me on this, it's worth it. -- Mauro Diotallevi Alcohol and calculus don't mix. Don't drink and derive. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: culling the species
On 4/28/08, jon louis mann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I believe that a major die off is inevitable. (including humanity, which could be a good thing for the planet). the causes will include famine, disease, war and natural disasters, etc. unfortunately, the ethnic cleansing will occur mostly in undeveloped countries. I disagree. I think the biggest impact will be on industrialized countries. If you are not very far removed from being an agrarian society, it is easier for you to adapt to growing your own food if you have to. In the school where I work, I don't think most of the students truly understand that the food they eat is actually grown on farms or raised on ranches. If you show them hamburgers, many of them won't be able to make the connection that it was once a cow. But they can tell you all of the special moves on Street Fighter or any of the other computer fighting games. That won't be much help once the electricity fails. Maybe wealthy Americans who currently own land will be able to get by, but the working, inner-city poor who have zero concept of agriculture are gonna have a very hard time of it. Mauro Diotallevi Post-Apocalypse Maru Alcohol and calculus don't mix. Don't drink and derive. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
David Brin's The Architechs plays again May 2 on History Channel
In case you missed The Architechs* the first time around, set your Tivo to May 2 5am on the History Channel. Fun worthwhile. (I sure had fun making it.) And it may be the last chance... Thrive-on! david brin *(Five geniuses are challenged: Design better safety/rescue systems for skyscrapers... in 48 hours! http://htyp.org/The_ArchiTECHS.) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Adressing Global Warming
Wayne wrote: Seems to me, he is just pointing out the irony in the fact that the Green Movement is a product of affluence which is a product of technology. And more specifically that the Green movement is antipathetic to the technology that has given them the time and resources to become environmentally aware. Am I right? But that's a false dichotomy. We've become environmentally aware because the technology is what fouls the environment. The first time I flew into LA in 1970 there was a thick, foul, yellow-brown haze that enveloped the city. Did they figure out that millions of cars spewing lead tainted toxins was at the root of the problem because they had the time and the resources? Are we then saying saying that dark complected people that don't speak English very well are too stupid to understand why the food tastes funny and makes you sick when you shit in the river upstream of where you draw your cook-water? Doug Common Sense Maru ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Adressing Global Warming
On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 8:39 PM, Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wayne wrote: Seems to me, he is just pointing out the irony in the fact that the Green Movement is a product of affluence which is a product of technology. And more specifically that the Green movement is antipathetic to the technology that has given them the time and resources to become environmentally aware. Am I right? But that's a false dichotomy. We've become environmentally aware because the technology is what fouls the environment. The first time I flew into LA in 1970 there was a thick, foul, yellow-brown haze that enveloped the city. Did they figure out that millions of cars spewing lead tainted toxins was at the root of the problem because they had the time and the resources? Are we then saying saying that dark complected people that don't speak English very well are too stupid to understand why the food tastes funny and makes you sick when you shit in the river upstream of where you draw your cook-water? Doug Common Sense Maru I suspect that people who are caught up in the daily struggle of survival, getting shelter, water, some grains to eat aren't placing the same weight on environmental issues as we in the affluent countries are. john ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Adressing Global Warming
John Garcia wrote: I suspect that people who are caught up in the daily struggle of survival, getting shelter, water, some grains to eat aren't placing the same weight on environmental issues as we in the affluent countries are. Shelter, water and food _are_ environmental issues aren't they? But let's go back to Ronn!'s original argument; that the dirty little secret of the environmental movement is that we have too many (poor, dark skinned, non-Anglophile) people. If we use the river analogy again, would the dirty little secret be that there are too many people, or that more sanitary habits should be enforced? By the same token, is the key to a clean environment a reduction in the number of people or a responsible stewardship of the planet? I believe that with proper management we could sustain a much larger population than we have now, but that without proper stewardship you could have a much smaller population and _still_ screw up the environment. It's true that if the Chinese continue to adopt modern technology without heeding environmental concerns, the environment is in trouble, but the answer isn't in denying them technology, it's in convincing them that they must adopt the technology in a responsible manner. We might be able to convince them the importance of the later, but short of nuclear annihilation the former is next to impossible. Ronn!'s argument seems to imply that the environmental movement requires some sort of eugenics to succeed and I find the implication offensive. Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Addressing Global Warming
At 09:29 PM Monday 4/28/2008, Doug Pensinger wrote: Ronn!'s argument seems to imply that the environmental movement requires some sort of eugenics to succeed and I find the implication offensive. And what I find offensive is the implication I often get from members of the environmental movement that accomplishing their goals requires some sort of eugenics, with statements like some of them have made like the carrying capacity of the Earth with people practicing a sustainable lifestyle is at most something like half a billion people. And not just because certainly I and everyone else who has any sort of health problems or otherwise are not in perfect health and physical shape will be among the 90%+ who will find themselves considered part of the surplus population under such circumstances . . . . . . ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: culling the species
At 03:09 PM Monday 4/28/2008, jon louis mann wrote: personally, i care more about the extinction of plant and animal species than humanity. Through early morning fog I see visions of the things to be the pains that are withheld for me I realize and I can see... that suicide is painless It brings on many changes and I can take or leave it if I please. I try to find a way to make all our little joys relate without that ever-present hate but now I know that it's too late, and... Suicide is painless It brings on many changes and I can take or leave it if I please. The game of life is hard to play I'm gonna lose it anyway The losing card I'll someday lay so this is all I have to say. Suicide is painless It brings on many changes and I can take or leave it if I please. The only way to win is cheat And lay it down before I'm beat and to another give my seat for that's the only painless feat. Suicide is painless It brings on many changes and I can take or leave it if I please. The sword of time will pierce our skins It doesn't hurt when it begins But as it works its way on in The pain grows stronger...watch it grin, but... Suicide is painless It brings on many changes and I can take or leave it if I please. A brave man once requested me to answer questions that are key is it to be or not to be and I replied 'oh why ask me?' 'Cause suicide is painless it brings on many changes and I can take or leave it if I please. ...and you can do the same thing if you please. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Adressing Global Warming
Original Message: - From: Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 18:29:54 -0800 To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Re: Adressing Global Warming It's true that if the Chinese continue to adopt modern technology without heeding environmental concerns, the environment is in trouble, but the answer isn't in denying them technology, it's in convincing them that they must adopt the technology in a responsible manner. We might be able toconvince them the importance of the later One of the themes of my very long post that started this was that we could do this _only if_ we could develop a green energy source that was inexpensive enough to be a reasonable alternative for developing countries. The reality is, for China, solar power is something to export to rich countries for foreign exchance. Coal makes sense locally. With China's cost structure, I'd guess that the difference in cost is more than a factor of 10. I also took Ron's comment as alluding to some of the same actions by rich Western countries that I discussed did when I was accused of a crime a while back here. I never did folllow up with the data on that because I think that, short of the 18 minutes of secret tapes :-), it would be very hard to get my point about the relative political power of the environmental movement and the interests of Africans in the US and the EU. My daughter, who sat in on US congressional committee meetings and has been working for years with NGOs, lobbying the US government, etc. was considered (in a post) a scurrious source, not worth mentioning. (Personally, to have someone connected to me with a MA in ecconomics and professional understanding of the actual workings of Afican aid facinates me, but maybe that's just me. So, I see Ronn's point. I think he overstates the situation a bit for effect, but I think that the average American or European worry more about low possibilities of undemonstrated risks to them and their own than real deaths of others who are not like them. And yea, I do take this personally. Dan M. As an aside, some of Charlie's posts are not replied to _yet_ because I wanted to set out my own position on global warming first before responding to what he saidand I'm fortunate enough to be a bit busy now. So, in case he's wondering, I do not consider him as one of the average Americans or Europeans referenced above. :-) Rather, he seems like a reasonable chap who I differ with on some issues from time to time. mail2web.com Enhanced email for the mobile individual based on Microsoft® Exchange - http://link.mail2web.com/Personal/EnhancedEmail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
survival...
I suspect that people who are caught up in the daily struggle of survival, getting shelter, water, some grains to eat aren't placing the same weight on environmental issues as we in the affluent countries are. john nor can they afford the luxury of being informed. even if they were, poor people can be just as unscrupulous as rich folks. they are the often the ones who poach gorillas, tigers and elephants to sell on the black market. it is not racist to condemn any kind of environmentally destructive behavior... jon Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
culling the species
i care more about the extinction of plant and animal species than humanity. jon ... suicide is painless... ...I can take or leave it if I please... I try to find a way to make all our little joys relate without that ever present hate... ...The game of life is hard to play, I'm gonna lose it anyway... h... i really don't think taking my own life will help matters... jon Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Global Warming
what I find offensive is the implication I often get from members of the environmental movement that accomplishing their goals requires some sort of eugenics, with statements like some of them have made like the carrying capacity of the Earth with people practicing a sustainable lifestyle is at most something like half a billion people. And not just because certainly I and everyone else who has any sort of health problems or otherwise are not in perfect health and physical shape will be among the 90%+ who will find themselves considered part of the surplus population under such circumstances. . . . . . ronn! :) i doubt that there are many environmentalists who actually advocate drastic measures to attain sustainability. i think balance will be achieved either through technology, or through collapse. jon Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
