Detroit Auto Show/Hybrids and Electrics (was: Re: Scouted: U.S. to collapse in next two years?
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/business/11electric.html?ref=autoshow http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/automobiles/autoshow/11SHOW.html?em Ford http://www.freep.com/article/20090111/BUSINESS03/90111045/1016/BUSINESS01/Ford+outlines+electric++hybrid+plans http://www.autoweek.com/article/20090111/FREE/901119989 http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/markets/industries/industrials/magna-ford-motor-company-partner-introduce-ero-emission-battery-electric-1518830864/ Chrysler http://www.autoweek.com/article/20090111/FREE/901109991 http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087sid=aHCn5mV9BjR4refer=home GM http://info.detnews.com/redesign/blogs/autoshowblog/index.cfm?blogid=363 http://blog.wired.com/cars/2009/01/gm-promises-a-4.html http://jalopnik.com/343835/detroit-auto-show--2009-saturn-vue-green-line-2-mode-hybrid http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/automobiles/autoshow/11BATTERY.html?_r=1ref=autoshow Toyota http://uk.reuters.com/article/marketsNewsUS/idUKN1129586120090111 http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2009/01/toyota-ftev-concept-at-2009-detroit-auto-show.html http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/toyota-plug-in-hybrid-coming-this-year/ Honda http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2009/01/2010-honda-insi.html Mercedes http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/01/10/detroit-2009-mercedes-benz-unveils-the-concept-bluezero/ BYD (China) http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/01/09/detroit-preview-byds-f3dm-plug-in-hybrid-will-be-unveiled-mond/ xponent In Cars Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Scouted: U.S. to collapse in next two years?
Dan M wrote: Personally, I'd bet a beer that bioengineered fuels, that have 10x the efficiency of ethanol production will have a significant market share in 10 years (say 10% of jet fuel), but electric cars will not be a significant player (5% of cars sold worldwide in 2019) in that time. But, I have no problem in placing chips on battery development, because the payoff from a given winner should be substantialwe just don't know which bet will pay off. Why there are no natural gas cars in the USA? Argentina lead South America into this, and now we have tetrafuel cars in Brazil: they run on ethanol, compressed natural gas, the brazilian 75% vol gasoline / 25% vol ethanol and gasoline. Probably they could also run on methanol or propane (both are illegal in Brazil - as is pure, unmixed gasoline). Not to mention those extravagant vehicles that run on liquid hydrogen... Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Scouted: U.S. to collapse in next two years?
Dan wrote: But, let's just take 30. At $1.50/gal, that's 5 cents/mile. Lets say these cars are kept for 150k, which is on the high side...that's 7.5k for gas. The break even point, assuming CDs pay zero, with the MSRP discount, is close to $6.00/gal. And, that's comparing with a smaller car. and: They talked about 5 people, they talked about 240 miles, but never said that 5 people could be taken 240 miles. My guess is that the 5 person seating is tight, and only for the 80 mile version of the carotherwise they'd explicitly say otherwise (If I were the project manager I'd be all over the tech. writer's back to make sure that the capacity was stated explicitly if it existed...if it wasn't there, I'd be happy with what they wrote). Now tell me Dan. Does your Escort get 30 mpg with 5 adults aboard, or are you engaging in the same kind of deceptive language you're accusing others of? Not that nine out of ten cars has more than one person in it. And by the way, gas prices around here are back up to $2/gal and will probably go higher soon. So if your getting 23miles/gallon (with your five people in the car) for 150k at $2.50/gal that's 16k for gas. And if batteries become cheaper and wind/solar interests buy up used batteries to store power generated at off peak times, http://www.its.berkeley.edu/sustainabilitycenter/newsandevents/CEFISrelated_sandia_report.pdf the maintenance cost of electrics is probably a lot cheaper than gas powered cars that are much more mechanically complex. But none of that is as important or as relevant as the fact that there is _no_ future for petroleum based energy for this country. We spend billions upon billions of dollars on maintaining a presence in the Middle East to protect our sources while we finance our enemies with the money we spend on oil. Factoring the political costs of our dependence on oil makes it quite a bit more expensive than you imply. By providing ourselves with alternatives, even if they are initially more expensive, we provide ourselves with a future and make the terrorists irrelevant (not to mention broke.) Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
