Re: Greens add to Greenhouse gasses

2012-12-03 Thread ALBERTO VIEIRA FERREIRA MONTEIRO
Klaus Stock wrote: Nope. In Germany, political reasons are the real reasons, not common sense. The europeans are crazy. They don't know what to do, they add a lot of uncertainty to the economy with all those subsidies that come and go, taxes that come and go, and regulations that come and go.

Re: Greens add to Greenhouse gasses

2012-12-02 Thread Klaus Stock
Of course, it would make sense to integrate water and wind plants, probably even using the wind turbines to power the pumps directly. But that's a problem with politics, not technology. I beg to differ. The obvious problem is geography. Pump storage is highly used in Switzerland, and they

Re: Greens add to Greenhouse gasses

2012-12-02 Thread Keith Henson
On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 11:00 AM, Dan Minette danmine...@att.net wrote: (Keith) If you have a better way to get humanity off fossil fuels, don't keep it to yourself. I have actions that, given historical precident, have a much better chance of suceeeding. Make a good case that it's cheaper

Re: Greens add to Greenhouse gasses

2012-12-02 Thread Kevin O'Brien
On 12/1/2012 6:36 PM, Dan Minette wrote: How is that going to happen. Are you arguing that the US will impose a carbon tax that is so high that we will be paying more in carbon taxes than fuel costs? Given the fact that we've been unable to raise the gas tax in decades, how will we impose a

RE: Greens add to Greenhouse gasses

2012-12-01 Thread Dan Minette
If you have a better way to get humanity off fossil fuels, don't keep it to yourself. I have actions that, given historical precident, have a much better chance of suceeeding. Make a good case that it's cheaper and I will support that instead of working on power satellites and laser

RE: Greens add to Greenhouse gasses

2012-12-01 Thread Dan Minette
Of course, it would make sense to integrate water and wind plants, probably even using the wind turbines to power the pumps directly. But that's a problem with politics, not technology. I beg to differ. The obvious problem is geography. Pump storage is highly used in Switzerland, and they

RE: Greens add to Greenhouse gasses

2012-12-01 Thread Dan Minette
-Original Message- From: brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com [mailto:brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com] On Behalf Of Kevin O'Brien Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 8:13 AM To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Re: Greens add to Greenhouse gasses On 11/30/2012 8:49 AM, Dan Minette wrote: So, they were

Re: Greens add to Greenhouse gasses

2012-11-30 Thread ALBERTO VIEIRA FERREIRA MONTEIRO
Dan Minette wrote: Wind just needs one, effective storage. The lack of it is why wind power cannot be counted on as part of peak demand. It only made sense when natural gas was expensive. Here in Brazil, Wind is used as part of the electric grid (there is a country-wide electric grid, only

Re: Greens add to Greenhouse gasses

2012-11-30 Thread Klaus Stock
Wind just needs one, effective storage. The lack of it is why wind power cannot be counted on as part of peak demand. It only made sense when natural gas was expensive. Here in Brazil, Wind is used as part of the electric grid (there is a country-wide electric grid, only some parts of the

RE: Greens add to Greenhouse gasses

2012-11-30 Thread Dan Minette
Here in Brazil, Wind is used as part of the electric grid (there is a country-wide electric grid, only some parts of the Rain Forest are outside it). It helps save water and not consume natural gas when the wind blows. So, Wind is _not_ one black swam away, it can be used complementary to other

Re: Greens add to Greenhouse gasses

2012-11-30 Thread Kevin O'Brien
On 11/29/2012 6:38 PM, Dan Minette wrote: They used the low price tactic to drive out virtually all other rare earth suppliers a bit over a decade ago, and are now in a position where the startup costs are high for other countries, and any country with pollution regulations would have a hard

Re: Greens add to Greenhouse gasses

2012-11-30 Thread Kevin O'Brien
On 11/30/2012 8:49 AM, Dan Minette wrote: So, they were fired up when the windmills were down due to low wind. Now, with cheap natural gas, the building of windmills has slown down to a virtual halt. Well, cheap currently. It is just one carbon tax away from being expensive. And to my mind the

Re: Greens add to Greenhouse gasses

2012-11-30 Thread Klaus Stock
So, they were fired up when the windmills were down due to low wind. Now, with cheap natural gas, the building of windmills has slown down to a virtual halt. Well, cheap currently. It is just one carbon tax away from being expensive. And to my mind the only question is when that tax comes,

RE: Greens add to Greenhouse gasses (Keith Henson)

2012-11-29 Thread Dan Minette
With all due respect, Keith, I've been hearing arguments like this for 50 years. That's impressive hearing considering that the big, high efficiency lasers that make this concept possible have been around for less than 5 years. This particular combination, I haven't heard for 50 years.

Re: Greens add to Greenhouse gasses (Keith Henson)

2012-11-29 Thread Kevin O'Brien
On 11/28/2012 7:05 PM, Keith Henson wrote: In regard to Kevin B. O'Brien's comments, the Chinese are far more likely to build propulsion lasers and power sats than the US. It's possible they have already made the decision, see the recent announcement about building power sats with the Indians.

RE: Greens add to Greenhouse gasses

2012-11-29 Thread Keith Henson
On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 11:00 AM, Dan Minette danmine...@att.net wrote: snip I was basically asking if you've been around the block. That's not an appeal to authority, just the result of the observation that folks who've walked the walk are more likely to be accurate the next time they talk

RE: Greens add to Greenhouse gasses

2012-11-29 Thread Dan Minette
Yup, oil production is not as harmless as nuclear bomb tests. It depends on how close you are to the nuclear bomb test. But, oil is generally lower in radioactivity than bananas. If you are far enough away from the test, then the radiation is so low, it's orders of magnitude below what you get

RE: Greens add to Greenhouse gasses

2012-11-29 Thread Dan Minette
-Original Message- From: brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com [mailto:brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com] On Behalf Of Kevin O'Brien Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2012 9:06 AM To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Re: Greens add to Greenhouse gasses On 11/27/2012 5:18 PM, Dan Minette wrote: Really cheap

Re: Greens add to Greenhouse gasses

2012-11-28 Thread Kevin O'Brien
On 11/27/2012 5:18 PM, Dan Minette wrote: Really cheap power if we bootstrap by building one power satellite and use it for propulsion lasers to bring up parts for thousands. With all due respect, Keith, I've been hearing arguments like this for 50 years. One thing would help you establish

Re: Greens add to Greenhouse gasses (Keith Henson)

2012-11-28 Thread Keith Henson
On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 11:00 AM, Klaus Stock k...@stock-consulting.com wrote: snip Our political leaders don't need solutions, they need fear. Once you control voters by fear, you can do literally everything. snip However, Angela Merkel, Chancellor of Germany, has studied physics. I'm

Re: Greens add to Greenhouse gasses

2012-11-27 Thread ALBERTO VIEIRA FERREIRA MONTEIRO
For God's sake (written as 日本酒), Japan had the earthquake of the century, it hit hard on the nuclear plants, and almost nothing happened. If this is not a very good security test on nuclear power, then I don't know what could be. Maybe hit a nuclear plant with an airplane? Alberto Monteiro

Re: Greens add to Greenhouse gasses

2012-11-27 Thread Kevin O'Brien
On 11/26/2012 9:21 PM, Dan Minette wrote: Since we don't want this list dominated by carved Norwegian tourist shop items, I thought I'd throw out an argument. I have seen Germany and Japan shutting down nuclear energy, after the Greens have suceeded in making it non-PC. They had argued that the

Re: Greens add to Greenhouse gasses

2012-11-27 Thread Klaus Stock
I think you are correct in that. The only thing I would add is that the design of the Fukushima plant was very old, and that modern designs are even safer. Um, like the german SNR-300 design? Yup, the first reactor with a core catcher! Which was, of course, dismantled. Apparently, there's only

Re: Greens add to Greenhouse gasses

2012-11-27 Thread Klaus Stock
This issue is not being resolved rationally, but then very few people approach problems that way. Twitter compressed solution Really cheap power if we bootstrap by building one power satellite and use it for propulsion lasers to bring up parts for thousands. If anyone wants to know more,

RE: Greens add to Greenhouse gasses

2012-11-27 Thread Dan Minette
Really cheap power if we bootstrap by building one power satellite and use it for propulsion lasers to bring up parts for thousands. With all due respect, Keith, I've been hearing arguments like this for 50 years. One thing would help you establish credibility. Can you point to a design of

Greens add to Greenhouse gasses

2012-11-26 Thread Dan Minette
Since we don't want this list dominated by carved Norwegian tourist shop items, I thought I'd throw out an argument. I have seen Germany and Japan shutting down nuclear energy, after the Greens have suceeded in making it non-PC. They had argued that the energy will be replaced by renewaable