Re: The wikipedia trolls may win again (III) :-/
... It seems like they are running a seek-and-destroy against every Brin stuff in wikipedia. After Alvin, the trolls will delete Streaker. The Troll is targeting for deletion: Gubru, G'Kek, EarthClan, Tymbrimi, Streaker (David Brin), Jophur, and Alvin Hph-wayuo. ... If we want the articles to stay up on Wikipedia, the best defense is references to them in books not written by David Brin. Does anybody know any? ---David ___ Jumping in here without reading the whole thread (bad form, I know, but I have no time to even be reading what I've read and replying *now*), but an amazon.com search might turn something up. It's given me stupid references to things inside books when I've been looking for just one thing in particular, so, at least in theory, that should work now. Julia ... Julia-- Thanks for the suggestion. Google Book Search seems better, though. I found a synopsis in _What do I read next? 97_ that way. (Or little snippets of it, since that's what the search returned.) So I put that and some other references in the Alvin article, removed the tags from it, and put it (and 15 more Brin-related pages) on my watchlist. The sense I get is that Abductive is on a crusade against poorly-sourced articles. It's silly in a way, since it's easy enough to hunt up sources, and putting them in doesn't really improve the articles. The best spin I can put on his actions are that he's trying to get people to improve their articles. Once people have put enough effort into an article to add references, it WILL probably be a good article. ---David Oh, and Happy New Year to everybody! ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: The wikipedia trolls may win again (III) :-/
-Original Message- From: brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com [mailto:brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com] On Behalf Of David Hobby Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 2:42 PM To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion Subject: Re: The wikipedia trolls may win again (III) :-/ ... It seems like they are running a seek-and-destroy against every Brin stuff in wikipedia. After Alvin, the trolls will delete Streaker. The Troll is targeting for deletion: Gubru, G'Kek, EarthClan, Tymbrimi, Streaker (David Brin), Jophur, and Alvin Hph-wayuo. It must be a Brin-hater. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php? title=Special:Contributionslimit=50target=Abductive So the user is Abductive, and he seems to spend a lot of time proposing articles for deletion. All except Streaker now just have notability tags, which seem mild enough to leave. But it could well be the first step in a campaign. He seems to not have status much higher than the rest of us editors, so the articles won't be deleted without due process. If we want the articles to stay up on Wikipedia, the best defense is references to them in books not written by David Brin. Does anybody know any? ---David ___ Jumping in here without reading the whole thread (bad form, I know, but I have no time to even be reading what I've read and replying *now*), but an amazon.com search might turn something up. It's given me stupid references to things inside books when I've been looking for just one thing in particular, so, at least in theory, that should work now. Julia and no, I don't have time to do the searches myself any time this week ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
The wikipedia trolls may win again (III) :-/
It seems like they are running a seek-and-destroy against every Brin stuff in wikipedia. After Alvin, the trolls will delete Streaker. The Troll is targeting for deletion: Gubru, G'Kek, EarthClan, Tymbrimi, Streaker (David Brin), Jophur, and Alvin Hph-wayuo. It must be a Brin-hater. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php? title=Special:Contributionslimit=50target=Abductive Alberto Monteiro ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: The wikipedia trolls may win again (III) :-/
-Original Message- From: brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com [mailto:brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com] On Behalf Of Alberto Monteiro Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 6:35 AM To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion Subject: The wikipedia trolls may win again (III) :-/ It seems like they are running a seek-and-destroy against every Brin stuff in wikipedia. After Alvin, the trolls will delete Streaker. The Troll is targeting for deletion: Gubru, G'Kek, EarthClan, Tymbrimi, Streaker (David Brin), Jophur, and Alvin Hph-wayuo. It must be a Brin-hater. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php? title=Special:Contributionslimit=50target=Abductive Alberto Monteiro ___ Any clue to the identity of the troll? Julia ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: The wikipedia trolls may win again (III) :-/
Julia wrote: The Troll is targeting for deletion: Gubru, G'Kek, EarthClan, Tymbrimi, Streaker (David Brin), Jophur, and Alvin Hph-wayuo. It must be a Brin-hater. Any clue to the identity of the troll? Who cares? Unless you are the owner of a Death Note, there's nothing we could do. Alberto Monteiro ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: The wikipedia trolls may win again (III) :-/
... It seems like they are running a seek-and-destroy against every Brin stuff in wikipedia. After Alvin, the trolls will delete Streaker. The Troll is targeting for deletion: Gubru, G'Kek, EarthClan, Tymbrimi, Streaker (David Brin), Jophur, and Alvin Hph-wayuo. It must be a Brin-hater. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php? title=Special:Contributionslimit=50target=Abductive So the user is Abductive, and he seems to spend a lot of time proposing articles for deletion. All except Streaker now just have notability tags, which seem mild enough to leave. But it could well be the first step in a campaign. He seems to not have status much higher than the rest of us editors, so the articles won't be deleted without due process. If we want the articles to stay up on Wikipedia, the best defense is references to them in books not written by David Brin. Does anybody know any? ---David ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: The wikipedia trolls may win again (III) :-/
David Hobby wrote: So the user is Abductive, and he seems to spend a lot of time proposing articles for deletion. It's probably an attack account: a sock puppet of a known user, created to give anonimity to a coward behavior (if it used the _real_ account, we might retaliate by proposing for deletion _its_ articles!). In the Portuguese wikipedia those trolls are severely repressed; one editor who abused sock-puppeteering was banned until after 2012-12-21. If we want the articles to stay up on Wikipedia, the best defense is references to them in books not written by David Brin. Does anybody know any? Probably some science fiction magazines have material about Brin's characters, races, etc. Also, there's GURPS Uplift, who is _not_ by Him. (and I still think Category should not be in the magma table!!!) Alberto Monteiro ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: The wikipedia trolls may win again (III) :-/
Don't you also need a picture of his face for that? -- Matt - Original Message From: Alberto Monteiro albm...@centroin.com.br To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Tue, December 29, 2009 8:08:00 AM Subject: RE: The wikipedia trolls may win again (III) :-/ Julia wrote: The Troll is targeting for deletion: Gubru, G'Kek, EarthClan, Tymbrimi, Streaker (David Brin), Jophur, and Alvin Hph-wayuo. It must be a Brin-hater. Any clue to the identity of the troll? Who cares? Unless you are the owner of a Death Note, there's nothing we could do. Alberto Monteiro ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: The wikipedia trolls may win again (III) :-/
Matt Grimaldi wrote: It must be a Brin-hater. Any clue to the identity of the troll? Who cares? Unless you are the owner of a Death Note, there's nothing we could do. Don't you also need a picture of his face for that? Yes - but it's easier to get the picture from the name than the name from the picture, unless you have Shinigami eyes. Alberto Monteiro ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: The wikipedia trolls may win again (III) :-/
Alberto Monteiro wrote: David Hobby wrote: So the user is Abductive, and he seems to spend a lot of time proposing articles for deletion. It's probably an attack account: a sock puppet of a known user, created to give anonimity to a coward behavior (if it used the _real_ account, we might retaliate by proposing for deletion _its_ articles!). In the Portuguese wikipedia those trolls are severely repressed; one editor who abused sock-puppeteering was banned until after 2012-12-21. If we want the articles to stay up on Wikipedia, the best defense is references to them in books not written by David Brin. Does anybody know any? Probably some science fiction magazines have material about Brin's characters, races, etc. Also, there's GURPS Uplift, who is _not_ by Him. (and I still think Category should not be in the magma table!!!) Alberto Monteiro ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com All of which does not change the fact that Abductive is correct. The articles previously mentioned in this family of threads simply do not meet en-Wikipedia's notablity guidelines. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability_%28books%29 gives: *This page in a nutshell:* A book is generally notable if it verifiably http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:V meets through reliable sources http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources, *one* or more of the following criteria: 1. The book has been the subject^[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability_%28books%29#cite_note-subject-0 of multiple, non-trivial^[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability_%28books%29#cite_note-nontrivial-1 published works whose sources are independent of the book itself,^[3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability_%28books%29#cite_note-independent-2 with at least some of these works serving a general audience. This includes published works in all forms, such as newspaper articles, other books, television documentaries and reviews. Some of these works should contain sufficient critical commentary to allow the article to grow past a simple plot summary http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:PLOT. * The immediately preceding criterion excludes media re-prints of press releases, flap copy, or other publications where the author, its publisher, agent, or other self-interested parties advertise or speak about the book.^[4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability_%28books%29#cite_note-selfpromotion-3 2. The book has won a major literary award http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Literary_awards. 3. The book has been considered by reliable sources to have made a significant contribution to a notable motion picture, or other art form, or event or political or religious movement. 4. The book is the subject of instruction at multiple grade schools, high schools, universities /or/ post-graduate programs in any particular country.^[5] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability_%28books%29#cite_note-textbooks-4 5. The book's author is so historically significant that any of his or her written works may be considered notable.^[6] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability_%28books%29#cite_note-study-5 And Derivative articles Shortcut http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Shortcut: WP:BKD http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:BKD It is a general consensus on Wikipedia that articles should not be split and split again into ever more minutiae of detail treatment, with each split normally lowering the level of notability. What this means is that while a book may be notable, it is not normally advisable to have a separate article on a character or thing from the book, and it is often the case that despite the book being manifestly notable, a derivative article from it is not. Exceptions do, of course, exist—especially in the case of very famous books. For example few would argue that Charles Dickens http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Dickens' /A Christmas Carol http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Christmas_Carol/ does not warrant a 'subarticle' on its protagonist, Ebenezer Scrooge http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebenezer_Scrooge. In some situations, where the book itself does not fit the established criteria for notability, or if the book is notable but the author has an article in Wikipedia, it may be better to feature material about the book in the author's article, rather than creating a separate article for that book. So there would seem to be a hierarchy acceptable to en-Wikipedia's content guidelines. Article/biography on David Brin preferably written by an objective party. Uplift universe Section on Brightness
