Re: Br!n: On the Saudis

2004-10-31 Thread Doug Pensinger
Dan wrote: On the other hand, Saudi Arabia does have extensive -- around $100 billion -- foreign assets, which provide a substantial fiscal cushion. end quote http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2202781.stm Saudi investors have threatened to withdraw some of the $750bn (£487bn; 766bn euros) they

Re: Br!n: On the Saudis

2004-10-27 Thread JDG
At 09:02 PM 10/26/2004 -0700 Doug Pensinger wrote: On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:56:47 -0400, JDG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Protecting the Saudi government from what? The fact that members of the Saudi royal family and Saudi agents ergo the Saudi government were directly involved in the planning and

Re: Br!n: On the Saudis

2004-10-27 Thread JDG
At 09:25 PM 10/26/2004 -0700 Doug Pensinger wrote: The world is full of possibilities Doug, but this is a long shot. Political pressure comes from leverage. Who would we get involved in a coalition to push on Saudi, and what would be the leverage. A trillion dollars worth of investments in

Re: Br!n: On the Saudis

2004-10-27 Thread JDG
At 07:17 AM 10/26/2004 -0700 Nick Arnett wrote: No poster has questioned more people's patriotism on this List than Dr. Brin, and no person has launched more overheated insults than Dr. Brin. And quite frankly, it is a bit appalling when your only response is to go after the *targets* of said

Re: Br!n: On the Saudis

2004-10-27 Thread Alberto Monteiro
JDG asked: Let me put it another way. Let's say that it is March of 2002, you are National Security Advisor to the President of the United States, and you are presented with evidence that the Saudi Royal Family helped fund 9/11. What is your policy reccomendation? Nuke Mecca and Medina!

Re: Br!n: On the Saudis

2004-10-27 Thread Dan Minette
- Original Message - From: Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 11:25 PM Subject: Re: Br!n: On the Saudis Dan wrote: The world is full of possibilities Doug, but this is a long shot. Political pressure comes

Re: Br!n: On the Saudis

2004-10-27 Thread Robert Seeberger
Gautam Mukunda wrote: --- Robert Seeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The first two sentences above really set me off. And I can only hope that you can understand why. Actually, after everything I've heard on this list, I have no sympathy whatsoever, Rob, and I really don't appreciate

Re: Br!n: On the Saudis

2004-10-26 Thread JDG
At 10:56 PM 10/25/2004 -0700 Nick Arnett wrote: Brin has very loudly proclaimed that we're on opposite sides. Well, okay. I know whose side I'm on, though. If he said this, and your response was I'm on America's side, it's easy for me to hear that as implying that David is not on America's

Re: Br!n: On the Saudis

2004-10-26 Thread Nick Arnett
JDG wrote: No poster has questioned more people's patriotism on this List than Dr. Brin, and no person has launched more overheated insults than Dr. Brin. And quite frankly, it is a bit appalling when your only response is to go after the *targets* of said comments. Only response appears to be

Re: Br!n: On the Saudis

2004-10-26 Thread Dan Minette
- Original Message - From: Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 9:17 AM Subject: Re: Br!n: On the Saudis Taking off my list manager hat... Are you saying that there are victims of David's criticism who have behaved

Re: Br!n: On the Saudis

2004-10-26 Thread Dan Minette
- Original Message - From: Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 10:14 AM Subject: Re: Br!n: On the Saudis - Original Message - From: Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED

Re: Br!n: On the Saudis

2004-10-26 Thread Dan Minette
- Original Message - From: Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 2:11 AM Subject: Re: Br!n: On the Saudis But, in fact, isn't it just possible that with the right amount of political pressure, brought to bear

Re: Br!n: On the Saudis

2004-10-26 Thread Doug Pensinger
Dan wrote: I find myself arguing someone I think is a bad president is simply a bad president, not a traitor...so my stakes are more analytical than heart felt. (I'm roughly assigning odds of 10^-6 that GWB is actually a traitor). So what, to you, are the repercussions if it is shown that Bush is

Re: Br!n: On the Saudis

2004-10-26 Thread Doug Pensinger
Dan wrote: 1) Crooks 2) Throwbacks 3) Idiots I think I mistated 3. It should be Crazy. I think you should add 4. Deluded. I know people that still think Nixon was a good president. -- Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l

Re: Br!n: On the Saudis

2004-10-26 Thread Dan Minette
- Original Message - From: Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 10:49 AM Subject: Re: Br!n: On the Saudis Dan wrote: 1) Crooks 2) Throwbacks 3) Idiots I think I mistated 3. It should be Crazy. I

Re: Br!n: On the Saudis

2004-10-26 Thread Dan Minette
- Original Message - From: Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 10:47 AM Subject: Re: Br!n: On the Saudis Dan wrote: I find myself arguing someone I think is a bad president is simply a bad president

RE: Br!n: On the Saudis

2004-10-26 Thread Horn, John
Behalf Of Dan Minette I think you should add 4. Deluded. I know people that still think Nixon was a good president. As far as defining your viewpoint, no argument. But, I was trying to parse the clearest meaning of David's text. I've always got the impression that David thought

Re: Br!n: On the Saudis

2004-10-26 Thread Nick Arnett
Dan Minette wrote: His flair for the dramatic can be very insulting. I see it that way, too. I don't see how calling those that differ with you idiots is helpful in maintain dialog. Me, neither, which may reflect a certain idiocy on my part, but I doubt it... ;-) Also, David is an award

Re: Br!n: On the Saudis

2004-10-26 Thread Martin Lewis
On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:21:47 -0500, Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: His flair for the dramatic can be very insulting. I get by very easy because I'm a Kerry voter who thinks that his comments on Bush are akin to those of my dear departed aunt and uncle who were Birchers and

Re: Br!n: On the Saudis

2004-10-26 Thread Damon Agretto
His flair for the dramatic can be very insulting. I see it that way, too. Hate to post a me too message but... What bothers me is his penchant to post rebuttals to arguments with words like pathetic rather than deconstructing the argument and presenting a counterargument. He could go

Re: Br!n: On the Saudis

2004-10-26 Thread Dave Land
On Oct 26, 2004, at 9:08 AM, Horn, John wrote: Behalf Of Dan Minette I think you should add 4. Deluded. I know people that still think Nixon was a good president. As far as defining your viewpoint, no argument. But, I was trying to parse the clearest meaning of David's text. I've always got the

Re: Br!n: On the Saudis

2004-10-26 Thread JDG
At 08:47 AM 10/26/2004 -0700 Doug Pensinger wrote: So what, to you, are the repercussions if it is shown that Bush is protecting the Saudi government - members of the Saudi royal family that were directly funding the 9/11 terrorists? Protecting the Saudi government from what? JDG

Re: Br!n: On the Saudis

2004-10-26 Thread Doug Pensinger
On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:56:47 -0400, JDG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: directly funding the 9/11 terrorists? Protecting the Saudi government from what? The fact that members of the Saudi royal family and Saudi agents ergo the Saudi government were directly involved in the planning and funding of the

Re: Br!n: On the Saudis

2004-10-26 Thread Doug Pensinger
Dan wrote: As far as defining your viewpoint, no argument. But, I was trying to parse the clearest meaning of David's text. BTW, the scientist in me would like to see a similar questionnaire with Kerry supporters to see if there is a significant difference in knowledge. The questions would have

Re: Br!n: On the Saudis

2004-10-26 Thread Doug Pensinger
Dan wrote: The world is full of possibilities Doug, but this is a long shot. Political pressure comes from leverage. Who would we get involved in a coalition to push on Saudi, and what would be the leverage. A trillion dollars worth of investments in the U.S. alone, maybe? It would certainly not

Re: Br!n: On the Saudis

2004-10-25 Thread Doug Pensinger
Gautam wrote: There's another common thread, Doug, let me help _you_ find it. Not government agents. It's kind of a significant difference. Except Omar al-Bayoumi, a Saudi agent, who provided extensive assistance to two of the hijackers whom he met after meeting one Fahad al-Thumairy, later

Re: Br!n: On the Saudis

2004-10-25 Thread Erik Reuter
On Sun, Oct 24, 2004 at 09:51:24PM -0700, Gautam Mukunda wrote: Congratulations, you're actually _worse_ than Falwell, you're accusing the President of treason. You have completely forfeited the right to complain about _any_ Republican tactic or accusation without looking hopelessly

Re: Br!n: On the Saudis

2004-10-25 Thread Gautam Mukunda
--- Robert Seeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The first two sentences above really set me off. And I can only hope that you can understand why. Actually, after everything I've heard on this list, I have no sympathy whatsoever, Rob, and I really don't appreciate having you compare me to

Re: Br!n: On the Saudis

2004-10-25 Thread Nick Arnett
Gautam Mukunda wrote: In this case, of course, I was pointing out whose side I am on. I'm not on President Bush's side. I'm not on Senator Kerry's side. I'm just on America's side. This is a wonderful sentiment when it is a reminder that even when we disagree, we have a great deal in common.

Re: Br!n: On the Saudis

2004-10-24 Thread JDG
At 05:02 PM 10/24/2004 -0700 Doug Pensinger wrote: The 9/11 attacks were planed financed and carried out mostly by Saudis. Why haven't we made them accountable for their atrocities? Because the ones who flew the planes are dead, and the remaining planners are still at large? And because group

Re: Br!n: On the Saudis

2004-10-24 Thread Gautam Mukunda
--- Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There's a common thread, Gautam, let me help you see it. Planning: Saudi's and some others, Saudi in charge. Financing: Saudi. Terrorists involved 15 Saudis, 4 others. There's another common thread, Doug, let me help _you_ find it. Not