Re: Wikileaks?
Or maybe it's everyone and their dog trying to access their new Facebook profile page: (...) Why do people join Facebook, when it's owned by sociopaths and perverts? Alberto Monteiro ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Wikileaks?
On Dec 7, 2010, at 3:44 AM, Alberto Monteiro wrote: Or maybe it's everyone and their dog trying to access their new Facebook profile page: (...) Why do people join Facebook, when it's owned by sociopaths and perverts? Well, of course the sociopaths and perverts to which you refer are not on my friends list, so they don't have any meaningful impact on my Facebook experience. I believe that there are sociopaths and perverts at Honda and Volkswagen and ATT and Apple, but I still use their products. And as to others who may actually enjoy the company of sociopaths and perverts: who are you to judge? :-) Dave ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Wikileaks
On 06/12/2010, at 8:46 AM, Nick Arnett wrote: On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 3:29 PM, trent shipley trent.ship...@gmail.com wrote: How many secrets does Australia have that are worth leaking. Does a significant fraction of the World's population believe it is The Great Satan? Reminds me of the story of the lady who was applying for a visa to enter Australia. When the clerk asked her if she had a criminal record, she replied, I had no idea one was still required. Have I used that joke here before? Well, if so, enjoy it again. Billy Connolly originally, I think. I think? Od anyway. Still funny though. Charlie ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Wikileaks
On 02/12/2010, at 10:29 AM, trent shipley wrote: How many secrets does Australia have that are worth leaking. Does a significant fraction of the World's population believe it is The Great Satan? They released the list of blacklisted domains that was itself secret... stupid policy. Charlie. ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Wikileaks?
At 08:06 PM Monday 12/6/2010, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: Is someone running a DDoS attack on Wikileaks tonight (US time)? I'm getting a lot more slow and dropped connections on the Web tonight than usual, so I wondered if it's all over the Net or just here . . . Or maybe it's everyone and their dog trying to access their new Facebook profile page: I just went to a site to read a political opinion article, and they apparently use Facebook for comments and replies, as down below the article in the comments section I saw a box full of the message one of the add-ons¹ I have installed which instead of just showing a 404 error message puts up when it can't get to a page which allows multiple options such as Try again or trying to access that page at various web archive sites which informed me said that The site www.facebook.com is taking too long to respond. . . . In any case, grrr . . . _ ¹Firefox is currently stuck trying to load another site so I can't access the list of add-ons to tell what that add-on is called, so if anyone is interested, ask me later . . . . . . ronn! :) ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Wikileaks
The Manhattan Project was spied on by the Soviets. On Dec 1, 2010 4:18 AM, Alberto Monteiro albm...@centroin.com.br wrote: Doug Pensinger wrote: I'm generally for transparency and haven't heard of anything yet that ... I think the worst source of embarassment is the use by .govs of security-weak softwares and OSes. What if this happened 70 years ago and Manhattan Project was leaked to the nazis (or even the soviets)? Alberto Monteiro ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l... ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Wikileaks
How many secrets does Australia have that are worth leaking. Does a significant fraction of the World's population believe it is The Great Satan? On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 1:12 PM, Wayne Eddy darkenf...@gmail.com wrote: It is interesting to hear that there is overwhelming sentiment against Wikileaks in the US. From the comments I have read on newspaper articles about Wikileaks here in Australia, I would think a majority of people here (maybe about 75%) are supportive. Personally, I think there is good and bad in what Julian Assange and his team are doing, but that the good definitely outweighs the bad. Regards, Wayne Eddy. On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 2:51 PM, Doug Pensinger brig...@zo.com wrote: There seems to be overwhelming sentiment against Wikileaks' release of confidential documents and I was wondering how people here (some of whom may have read Brin's Transparent Society) felt about it. I'm generally for transparency and haven't heard of anything yet that is beyond mildly embarrassing to the U. S. government. I do think where the safety of our troops is concerned confidentially is important, but that government secrets should have a relatively short shelf life in all cases. Doug ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Wikileaks
On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 3:29 PM, trent shipley trent.ship...@gmail.comwrote: How many secrets does Australia have that are worth leaking. Does a significant fraction of the World's population believe it is The Great Satan? Reminds me of the story of the lady who was applying for a visa to enter Australia. When the clerk asked her if she had a criminal record, she replied, I had no idea one was still required. Have I used that joke here before? Well, if so, enjoy it again. Nick ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: WikiLeaks
On Dec 2, 2010, at 7:51 AM, Jon Louis Mann wrote: Having consensual sex in Sweden without a condom is punishable by a term of imprisonment of a minimum of two years for rape. That strikes me as very strange indeed. is there more to that law than that? Does this apply only to extramarital sex, for example? ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Wikileaks
On 01/12/2010, at 3:51 PM, Doug Pensinger wrote: There seems to be overwhelming sentiment against Wikileaks' release of confidential documents and I was wondering how people here (some of whom may have read Brin's Transparent Society) felt about it. Judging by how they do it - letting the powers-that-be know quite a while in advance what they have and what they're planning to release, and giving time for operations to be moved/ended and some redactions to occur, I think it's a good thing that this material gets released. Also, it's not top secret - about 3 million US govt employees would have had access to most of this anyway, according to an article I was reading earlier. I'm generally for transparency and haven't heard of anything yet that is beyond mildly embarrassing to the U. S. government. I do think where the safety of our troops is concerned confidentially is important, but that government secrets should have a relatively short shelf life in all cases. Precisely. Situations like here in Victoria where the contracts for building the new railway station in Melbourne are sealed for FIFTY YEARS are ridiculous - they're anti-democratic and foster corruption. Charlie. ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Wikileaks
Doug Pensinger wrote: I'm generally for transparency and haven't heard of anything yet that is beyond mildly embarrassing to the U. S. government. I do think where the safety of our troops is concerned confidentially is important, but that government secrets should have a relatively short shelf life in all cases. I think the worst source of embarassment is the use by .govs of security-weak softwares and OSes. What if this happened 70 years ago and Manhattan Project was leaked to the nazis (or even the soviets)? Alberto Monteiro ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: Wikileaks
What if this happened 70 years ago and Manhattan Project was leaked to the nazis (or even the soviets)? It was leaked to the Soviets. While Joe McCarthy was able to find 100% of the communist activists working for the Soviet Union in the United States (names kept in his locked briefcase), there were indeed sympathizers to the Soviet Union who got them some information. People were convicted of this. The latest I got was that the information given allowed them to skip the dangerous step of tickling the dragon's tail to determine experimentally what critical mass was. http://www.cfo.doe.gov/me70/manhattan/espionage.htm Dan M. ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Wikileaks
It is interesting to hear that there is overwhelming sentiment against Wikileaks in the US. From the comments I have read on newspaper articles about Wikileaks here in Australia, I would think a majority of people here (maybe about 75%) are supportive. Personally, I think there is good and bad in what Julian Assange and his team are doing, but that the good definitely outweighs the bad. Regards, Wayne Eddy. On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 2:51 PM, Doug Pensinger brig...@zo.com wrote: There seems to be overwhelming sentiment against Wikileaks' release of confidential documents and I was wondering how people here (some of whom may have read Brin's Transparent Society) felt about it. I'm generally for transparency and haven't heard of anything yet that is beyond mildly embarrassing to the U. S. government. I do think where the safety of our troops is concerned confidentially is important, but that government secrets should have a relatively short shelf life in all cases. Doug ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Wikileaks
I don't know; I think it still remains to be seen if the good outweighs the bad. While so far the damage to the US appears to be fairly light, I have to wonder about the damage done to US allies and other countries across the globe. I'm sure the Yemeni president (who has been allegedly lying to his parliament) probably looks at this a bit different, and the dynamic of the Iranian nuclear weapons issue might change with the revelations that many of the Arab states are largely aligned with Israel on this. Also, I have to wonder -- given current events -- how China's revelation to North Korea might pan out. While I'm optimistic and hope that goes for the best (and I think it likely will), I can also see it going for the worse too. Also there might be other revelations that come about that have yet to be revealed. Not to mention potential trust issues US allies might have because we're not able to safeguard their dirty laundry sufficiently... Damon. On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 3:12 PM, Wayne Eddy darkenf...@gmail.com wrote: It is interesting to hear that there is overwhelming sentiment against Wikileaks in the US. From the comments I have read on newspaper articles about Wikileaks here in Australia, I would think a majority of people here (maybe about 75%) are supportive. Personally, I think there is good and bad in what Julian Assange and his team are doing, but that the good definitely outweighs the bad. Regards, Wayne Eddy. On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 2:51 PM, Doug Pensinger brig...@zo.com wrote: There seems to be overwhelming sentiment against Wikileaks' release of confidential documents and I was wondering how people here (some of whom may have read Brin's Transparent Society) felt about it. I'm generally for transparency and haven't heard of anything yet that is beyond mildly embarrassing to the U. S. government. I do think where the safety of our troops is concerned confidentially is important, but that government secrets should have a relatively short shelf life in all cases. Doug ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: Wikileaks
I'm generally for transparency and haven't heard of anything yet that is beyond mildly embarrassing to the U. S. government. I do think where the safety of our troops is concerned confidentially is important, but that government secrets should have a relatively short shelf life in all cases. Most of the critiques I read that see the leaks as harmful emphasize the fact that statements made to the US by various people in confidence are now out in the open. An example of this is the King of Saudi Arabia's repeated worry about an Iranian nuclear weapon. This included his suggestion that the US bomb their facilities and his promise to provide China with oil in case Iran cuts off their oil supply after they failed to veto sanctions. Or the embarrassment for the leader of Yeman who protested the US bombing of AQ positions, while quietly telling the US he had to be shocked shocked to find gambling at Rick's Café Americana but that was just a necessary political fig leaf. So, the real damage is that it is now reasonable to conclude that it is impossible for the US to keep anything told it in confidence. One very interesting fact is that they didn't come up with smoking guns about secret illegal activities that Cheney authorized. I actually expected to see something like that...if it's there, I haven't seen where it was reported. Dan M. ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Wikileaks
Those are just the loudest voices at the moment. I'm wondering, where are the juicy bits that would justify someone to turn whistleblower? Where are the docs to prove that Soylent Green is really people? It would be a shame to waste such an opportunity on something merely embarrassing. -- Matt From: Wayne Eddy darkenf...@gmail.com To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Wed, December 1, 2010 12:12:23 PM Subject: Re: Wikileaks It is interesting to hear that there is overwhelming sentiment against Wikileaks in the US. From the comments I have read on newspaper articles about Wikileaks here in Australia, I would think a majority of people here (maybe about 75%) are supportive. Personally, I think there is good and bad in what Julian Assange and his team are doing, but that the good definitely outweighs the bad. Regards, Wayne Eddy. On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 2:51 PM, Doug Pensinger brig...@zo.com wrote: There seems to be overwhelming sentiment against Wikileaks' release of confidential documents and I was wondering how people here (some of whom may have read Brin's Transparent Society) felt about it. I'm generally for transparency and haven't heard of anything yet that is beyond mildly embarrassing to the U. S. government. I do think where the safety of our troops is concerned confidentially is important, but that government secrets should have a relatively short shelf life in all cases. Doug ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: WikiLeaks
Jon wrote: Anyone with clearance to that level is personally responsible and signed an oath. 23-year-old, Bradley Manning, a US army intelligence analyst, e-mailed former hacker, Adrian Lamo, bragging that he leaked the diplomatic cables to WikiLeaks, along with a highly classified video of U.S. forces killing unarmed civilians in Baghdad. He is currently being held and charged with transferring classified national defense information to an unauthorized source. He faces court martial and up to 52 years in prison. Jon Mann They teach you in the military that there are such things as illegal orders. I would argue that there should also be illegal secrecy. Keeping a war crime a secret would qualify. Doug ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: WikiLeaks
On 02/12/2010, at 3:23 PM, Doug Pensinger wrote: Jon wrote: Anyone with clearance to that level is personally responsible and signed an oath. 23-year-old, Bradley Manning, a US army intelligence analyst, e-mailed former hacker, Adrian Lamo, bragging that he leaked the diplomatic cables to WikiLeaks, along with a highly classified video of U.S. forces killing unarmed civilians in Baghdad. He is currently being held and charged with transferring classified national defense information to an unauthorized source. He faces court martial and up to 52 years in prison. Jon Mann They teach you in the military that there are such things as illegal orders. I would argue that there should also be illegal secrecy. Keeping a war crime a secret would qualify. Precisely. If that argument is not successfully made in his defence, then the USA is further down the road to hell than I have feared. Charlie. ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
