Re: [Bug-gnuzilla] Default Search Engine

[Jens Korte]

Am Sun, 28 Jan 2018 14:36:26 +0100
schrieb Marco van Hulten :

> Je 28 jan 13:31 skribis Narcis:
> > MetaGer still has the problem of prioritizing german results.
> > 
> > [examples]
> > 
> > This is not useful for me to set many people MetaGer as default
> > search engine.
>
> Here I also see an issue.
> 
> https://metager.de/returns German results.
> https://metager.de/en/ returns English results.
> https://metager.de/es/ returns German results.
> https://metager.de/nl/ does not exist.
> https://metager.de/eo/ does not exist.
> https://metager.de/no/ does not exist.
> 
> The main issue here is that the Spanish website returns links to
> German websites, instead of Spanish.

I wrote an issue at Metager [1] and linked to the mail archive of this
thread. Though the mail development is in english, I guess it is no
problem to report issues in english.

If someone is interested in translating Metager write an issue in the
gitlab or write a mail to off...@suma-ev.de . I am just a user, I can't
say anything about the priorities of the project.


> 
> Another issue (be it a bug or missing feature) is that, at least in
> IceCat, the language setting is ignored.

I reported it at 
https://gitlab.metager3.de/open-source/MetaGer/issues/666

Jens

> 
> —Marco

[1] https://gitlab.metager3.de/open-source/MetaGer/issues/665

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Re: [Bug-gnuzilla] LibreJS: even when whitelisted, tv.nrk.no does not play

[Marco van Hulten]

Mart—

Je 28 jan 18:42 skribis Mart:
> with NoScript, I found out the following domains that tv.nrk.no uses:
> 
> static.nrk.no
> innlogging.nrk.no
> psapi-ne.nrk.no
> dc.services.visualstudio.com
> 
> With these unblocked, the Flash player launched, and a trailer for a
> new tv show played. Though I don't use LibreJS.

NRK.no (also) works without Flash.

> With Network Inspector, I got a few more:
> 
> az416426.vo.msecnd.net — a Microsoft Azure domain. The important part
> is vo.msecnd.net
> nrk-od-08.akamaized.net — video stream

Thank you, that's useful to know!  But is incredible that public
websites depend on all kind of crap.

I made a proper bug report here: https://savannah.gnu.org/bugs/index.php?52994
Anyone, please, participate there if you have more insights, or similar
problems.

—Marco

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Re: [Bug-gnuzilla] LibreJS: even when whitelisted, tv.nrk.no does not play

[bill-auger]

On 2018-01-28 17:00 GMT +02:00, Marco van Hulten wrote:
> Thank you for your response.  I think I can roughly interpret it as
> that it would be best to wait until the FFv57+ equivalent of IceCat has
> arrived to GuixSD and/or Parabola before using LibreJS again on those
> systems.

rarely would i imply that waiting is the "best" thing to do - the best
thing IMHO especially as you apparently use parabola) would be to
install parabola iceweasel and install the latest librejs into that then
test you troublesome website again - if it has problems with the new
librejs version also then you could send a bug report about it and it
would be more likely to get the devs attention - if the problem is
present in the new version, then it probably still will be present
whenever you begin using it - be that either later or sooner



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Re: [Bug-gnuzilla] LibreJS: even when whitelisted, tv.nrk.no does not play

[Mart Rootamm]

Marco,

with NoScript, I found out the following domains that tv.nrk.no uses:

static.nrk.no
innlogging.nrk.no
psapi-ne.nrk.no
dc.services.visualstudio.com

With these unblocked, the Flash player launched, and a trailer for a
new tv show played. Though I don't use LibreJS.

With Network Inspector, I got a few more:

az416426.vo.msecnd.net — a Microsoft Azure domain. The important part
is vo.msecnd.net
nrk-od-08.akamaized.net — video stream

-M.


2018-01-28 17:00 GMT +02:00, Marco van Hulten :
> Bill—
>
> Thank you for your response.  I think I can roughly interpret it as
> that it would be best to wait until the FFv57+ equivalent of IceCat has
> arrived to GuixSD and/or Parabola before using LibreJS again on those
> systems.
>
> Je 28 jan 07:20 skribis bill-auger:
>> this is probably not related to icecat but a bug in librejs itself -
>> unless you can show that the same behavior is not present using a
>> different browser such as firefox or iceweasel, then this is actually an
>> issue for the librejs mailing list -
>
> On my Debian 9.3 (stretch) laptop with Firefox 52.6.0 with LibreJS
> 6.0.13, videos on https://tv.nrk.no/ do play when I add tv.nrk.no to
> the whitelist.
>
> The same version of LibreJS with IceCat 52.3.0 (on both GuixSD and
> Parabola) does not work when tv.nrk.no is added to the exception list.
> However, I now found out that it does when I add *.nrk.no to that list.
>
> In short, there appears to be difference between the system with
> Firefox and the systems with IceCat, but it may be too minor or unclear
> to report on this at another place.
>
>> although there is little point in
>> reporting it now as the version of librejs in the current version of
>> icecat has been obsoleted by mozilla starting with v57; so that librejs
>> development is now entirely focussed on the new FFv57+ compatible
>> version - what this means unfortunately for now is that it is highly
>> doubtful that the version of librejs in icecat will ever be upgraded or
>> have any bugs fixed - so whatever problems you have today with librejs
>> will remain until the next release of icecat; which should be compatible
>> with the new version of librejs
>
> On my Ubuntu 16.04 laptop I run Firefox 58.0.  There I could not
> install LibreJS 6.0.13.  On the Mozilla Add-ons site there is a newer
> version of LibreJS 7.11 available.  It is where the GNU website links
> to, so it should be an official version, but this is puzzling [1]:
>
>> The LibreJS source files can be found via HTTPS:
>> librejs-6.0.13.tar.gz (462K). Or FTP: ftp://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/librejs/.
>> It can also be found on the GNU mirrors. This link will automatically
>> select a mirror for you. LibreJS is also available at the Mozilla
>> Add-ons site. Due to Mozilla's review process, the version of LibreJS
>> available at the Add-ons site is often outdated. This isn't in our
>> control.
>
> [1]: https://www.gnu.org/software/librejs/
>
> It appears that it is outdated on the official website, or at least
> that GNU only offers the pre-FFv57 version of LibreJS.
>
> With LibreJS 7.11 the issue was more or less the same as for LibreJS
> 6.0.13 (on other systems): the video did not play (whereas it does
> when the extension is disabled).  But now, after removing and
> installing the extension again from Mozilla, it does work, even without
> adding domains to the whitelist.  Furthermore, the LibreJS button is
> an empty icon; I found it by hovering over an apparently empty space at
> the top-right of the window (next to Adblock Plus and so on).  When I
> click on it, nothing happens.  All seems fine and thus according to
> LibreJS 7.11 on this Ubuntu system at this point in time does not use
> any non-free JavaScript.
>
> I realise that all this information can be confusion.  I was not sure
> what was important to mention, so I decided to report all my findings
> here.
>
> —Marco
>

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Re: [Bug-gnuzilla] LibreJS: even when whitelisted, tv.nrk.no does not play

[Marco van Hulten]

Bill—

Thank you for your response.  I think I can roughly interpret it as
that it would be best to wait until the FFv57+ equivalent of IceCat has
arrived to GuixSD and/or Parabola before using LibreJS again on those
systems.

Je 28 jan 07:20 skribis bill-auger:
> this is probably not related to icecat but a bug in librejs itself -
> unless you can show that the same behavior is not present using a
> different browser such as firefox or iceweasel, then this is actually an
> issue for the librejs mailing list -

On my Debian 9.3 (stretch) laptop with Firefox 52.6.0 with LibreJS
6.0.13, videos on https://tv.nrk.no/ do play when I add tv.nrk.no to
the whitelist.

The same version of LibreJS with IceCat 52.3.0 (on both GuixSD and
Parabola) does not work when tv.nrk.no is added to the exception list.
However, I now found out that it does when I add *.nrk.no to that list.

In short, there appears to be difference between the system with
Firefox and the systems with IceCat, but it may be too minor or unclear
to report on this at another place.

> although there is little point in
> reporting it now as the version of librejs in the current version of
> icecat has been obsoleted by mozilla starting with v57; so that librejs
> development is now entirely focussed on the new FFv57+ compatible
> version - what this means unfortunately for now is that it is highly
> doubtful that the version of librejs in icecat will ever be upgraded or
> have any bugs fixed - so whatever problems you have today with librejs
> will remain until the next release of icecat; which should be compatible
> with the new version of librejs

On my Ubuntu 16.04 laptop I run Firefox 58.0.  There I could not
install LibreJS 6.0.13.  On the Mozilla Add-ons site there is a newer
version of LibreJS 7.11 available.  It is where the GNU website links
to, so it should be an official version, but this is puzzling [1]:

> The LibreJS source files can be found via HTTPS:
> librejs-6.0.13.tar.gz (462K). Or FTP: ftp://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/librejs/.
> It can also be found on the GNU mirrors. This link will automatically
> select a mirror for you. LibreJS is also available at the Mozilla
> Add-ons site. Due to Mozilla's review process, the version of LibreJS
> available at the Add-ons site is often outdated. This isn't in our
> control.

[1]: https://www.gnu.org/software/librejs/

It appears that it is outdated on the official website, or at least
that GNU only offers the pre-FFv57 version of LibreJS.

With LibreJS 7.11 the issue was more or less the same as for LibreJS
6.0.13 (on other systems): the video did not play (whereas it does
when the extension is disabled).  But now, after removing and
installing the extension again from Mozilla, it does work, even without
adding domains to the whitelist.  Furthermore, the LibreJS button is
an empty icon; I found it by hovering over an apparently empty space at
the top-right of the window (next to Adblock Plus and so on).  When I
click on it, nothing happens.  All seems fine and thus according to
LibreJS 7.11 on this Ubuntu system at this point in time does not use
any non-free JavaScript.

I realise that all this information can be confusion.  I was not sure
what was important to mention, so I decided to report all my findings
here.

—Marco


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Re: [Bug-gnuzilla] reappearing message on "hidden elements"

[David Hedlund]

Can you please give us a screenshot?


On 2018-01-28 11:25, Marco van Hulten wrote:

Hello—

Every webpage shows in the top right corner hovering over the page two
buttons with this text:

 Click to reveil hidden elements
 remove buttons

When I click the first button, it disappears but keeps on appearing on
new pages.  When I click the second, it disappears but keeps on
appearing on new pages.

I don't know what it means.  Could it be removed from the default
IceCat installation, or is it something (freedom) essential?

I am using IceCat 52.3.0 on GuixSD.

—Marco

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Re: [Bug-gnuzilla] Default Search Engine

[Marco van Hulten]

Hi all—

Before expanding on Narcis' useful criticism below, MetaGer could be a
good addition to the list of search engines in IceCat.

When we're at it, do add La Quadrature du Net as well.

https://searx.laquadrature.net/

Je 28 jan 13:31 skribis Narcis:
> MetaGer still has the problem of prioritizing german results.
> 
> [examples]
> 
> This is not useful for me to set many people MetaGer as default search
> engine.

Here I also see an issue.

https://metager.de/returns German results.
https://metager.de/en/ returns English results.
https://metager.de/es/ returns German results.
https://metager.de/nl/ does not exist.
https://metager.de/eo/ does not exist.
https://metager.de/no/ does not exist.

The main issue here is that the Spanish website returns links to German
websites, instead of Spanish.

Another issue (be it a bug or missing feature) is that, at least in
IceCat, the language setting is ignored.

—Marco

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Re: [Bug-gnuzilla] reappearing message on 'hidden elements'

[Marco van Hulten]

Narcis and others—

Je 28 jan 13:25 skribis Narcis:
> I disable this plugin on all computers, because CUPS webpage
> (localhost:631) doesn't work with it.

I now see it is the «Reveal hidden HTML elements» extension.  So I
disabled it, and the buttons are not displayed anymore.

I understand that you remove the extension when your local CUPS website
does not work.  However, I tested this on Parabola just now, and my
experience is that the CUPS website does not function properly (empty
help page for instance) because of the LibreJS plugin, not the «Reveal
hidden HTML elements» plugin.

Have been discussions already on what extensions to enable by default?
There would be friction between what is needed for privacy on the one
hand, and what is needed for the working of websites on the other hand.
Probably the web is too broken for those things to be reconcilable.

—Marco

P.S. Can anyone tell me if there is a relevant difference between the
terms «plugin», «add-on» and «extension»?  I can see the structure how
Firefox/IceCat uses them (plugins, extensions \in add-ons), but didn't
we use to call these things all plug-ins?  Maybe plugins are external
pieces of software, whereas extensions are using internal
Firefox/IceCat scripting.

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Re: [Bug-gnuzilla] Default Search Engine

[Narcis Garcia]

MetaGer still has the problem of prioritizing german results.

Example: Select language "español" (=spanish) and search the word
Madrid. Most results are in german, when first ones should be in spanish.
Another example: Select language "español" (=spanish) and search the
word Lleida (in catalan). Most results are in german, when first ones
should be in catalan.

This is not useful for me to set many people MetaGer as default search
engine.


El 28/01/18 a les 13:08, Jens Korte ha escrit:
> Hi
> 
> I recommend https://metager.de/en or the developer version
> https://metager3.de/en . The SuMa e.V., a non-commercial
> german organisation (gemeinnütziger, eingetragener Verein [1]) runs and
> develops the search-engine. The source is available under the terms of
> AGPL3 [2].
> 
> 
> Greets
> 
> Jens Korte
> 
> [1] https://suma-ev.de/
> [2] https://gitlab.metager3.de/
> 
> Am Sun, 28 Jan 2018 12:38:35 +0100
> schrieb Marco van Hulten :
> 
>> Hello—
>>
>> When I installed IceCat on Parabola, I got the privacy conscious La
>> Quadrature as the default default search engine*.  When I installed
>> IceCat on GuixSD, I got Google as the default default search engine.
>>
>> What is the upstream default search engine?
>>
>> Should GNU distributions set this themselves?
>>
>> If the latter is the case, it would still be a good idea if the
>> upstream default default search engine were a privacy conscious
>> search engine.
>>
>>
>> Related to this issue, a bit of browsing through the files at
>> https://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/gnuzilla/ ** shows that the Google search
>> engine was removed in icecat-31.2.0 but not anymore in icecat-52.0.2.
>> That is probably fine (and discussed before on this mailinglist), but
>> the default should not fall back to Google.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> —Marco
>>
>> * With this I mean the default search engine that is selected when
>>   IceCat is first start, i.e. there is no ~/.mozilla/ when starting
>>   IceCat.
>> ** These appear builds, not source code as mentioned elsewhere
>>   
>> (https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/265828/cant-find-gnu-icecat-or-firefox-source-code)
>>
>> --
>> http://gnuzilla.gnu.org
> 
> 
> --
> http://gnuzilla.gnu.org
> 

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Re: [Bug-gnuzilla] reappearing message on 'hidden elements'

[Narcis Garcia]

I disable this plugin on all computers, because CUPS webpage
(localhost:631) doesn't work with it.


El 28/01/18 a les 11:25, Marco van Hulten ha escrit:
> Hello—
> 
> Every webpage shows in the top right corner hovering over the page two
> buttons with this text:
> 
> Click to reveil hidden elements
> remove buttons
> 
> When I click the first button, it disappears but keeps on appearing on
> new pages.  When I click the second, it disappears but keeps on
> appearing on new pages.
> 
> I don't know what it means.  Could it be removed from the default
> IceCat installation, or is it something (freedom) essential?
> 
> I am using IceCat 52.3.0 on GuixSD.
> 
> —Marco
> 
> --
> http://gnuzilla.gnu.org
> 

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Re: [Bug-gnuzilla] LibreJS: even when whitelisted, tv.nrk.no does not play

[bill-auger]

Marco -

this is probably not related to icecat but a bug in librejs itself -
unless you can show that the same behavior is not present using a
different browser such as firefox or iceweasel, then this is actually an
issue for the librejs mailing list - although there is little point in
reporting it now as the version of librejs in the current version of
icecat has been obsoleted by mozilla starting with v57; so that librejs
development is now entirely focussed on the new FFv57+ compatible
version - what this means unfortunately for now is that it is highly
doubtful that the version of librejs in icecat will ever be upgraded or
have any bugs fixed - so whatever problems you have today with librejs
will remain until the next release of icecat; which should be compatible
with the new version of librejs



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Re: [Bug-gnuzilla] Default Search Engine

[Jens Korte]

Hi

I recommend https://metager.de/en or the developer version
https://metager3.de/en . The SuMa e.V., a non-commercial
german organisation (gemeinnütziger, eingetragener Verein [1]) runs and
develops the search-engine. The source is available under the terms of
AGPL3 [2].


Greets

Jens Korte

[1] https://suma-ev.de/
[2] https://gitlab.metager3.de/

Am Sun, 28 Jan 2018 12:38:35 +0100
schrieb Marco van Hulten :

> Hello—
> 
> When I installed IceCat on Parabola, I got the privacy conscious La
> Quadrature as the default default search engine*.  When I installed
> IceCat on GuixSD, I got Google as the default default search engine.
> 
> What is the upstream default search engine?
> 
> Should GNU distributions set this themselves?
> 
> If the latter is the case, it would still be a good idea if the
> upstream default default search engine were a privacy conscious
> search engine.
> 
> 
> Related to this issue, a bit of browsing through the files at
> https://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/gnuzilla/ ** shows that the Google search
> engine was removed in icecat-31.2.0 but not anymore in icecat-52.0.2.
> That is probably fine (and discussed before on this mailinglist), but
> the default should not fall back to Google.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> —Marco
> 
> * With this I mean the default search engine that is selected when
>   IceCat is first start, i.e. there is no ~/.mozilla/ when starting
>   IceCat.
> ** These appear builds, not source code as mentioned elsewhere
>   
> (https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/265828/cant-find-gnu-icecat-or-firefox-source-code)
> 
> --
> http://gnuzilla.gnu.org


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[Bug-gnuzilla] LibreJS: even when whitelisted, tv.nrk.no does not play

[Marco van Hulten]

Hello—

When I try to watch a video on https://tv.nrk.no/, LibreJS blocks the
non-free JavaScript that is apparently needed in this website.  When I
whitelist tv.nrk.no in the configuration, LibreJS does not complain,
but the video does not play (also when LibreJS is the only add-on
loaded in IceCat).  Only if I disable the LibreJS extension, videos on
https://tv.nrk.no/ will play properly.

My first guess is that there is an attempt to run JavaScript from a
third-party domain, but if that were the case, why would LibreJS not
show a message about that?

This happens with IceCat 52.3.0 on both GuixSD and Parabola, as
provided by the respective distributions.  LibreJS 6.0.13.

—Marco

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[Bug-gnuzilla] Default Search Engine

[Marco van Hulten]

Hello—

When I installed IceCat on Parabola, I got the privacy conscious La
Quadrature as the default default search engine*.  When I installed
IceCat on GuixSD, I got Google as the default default search engine.

What is the upstream default search engine?

Should GNU distributions set this themselves?

If the latter is the case, it would still be a good idea if the upstream
default default search engine were a privacy conscious search engine.


Related to this issue, a bit of browsing through the files at
https://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/gnuzilla/ ** shows that the Google search
engine was removed in icecat-31.2.0 but not anymore in icecat-52.0.2.
That is probably fine (and discussed before on this mailinglist), but
the default should not fall back to Google.

Thanks!

—Marco

* With this I mean the default search engine that is selected when
  IceCat is first start, i.e. there is no ~/.mozilla/ when starting
  IceCat.
** These appear builds, not source code as mentioned elsewhere
  
(https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/265828/cant-find-gnu-icecat-or-firefox-source-code)

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[Bug-gnuzilla] reappearing message on "hidden elements"

[Marco van Hulten]

Hello—

Every webpage shows in the top right corner hovering over the page two
buttons with this text:

Click to reveil hidden elements
remove buttons

When I click the first button, it disappears but keeps on appearing on
new pages.  When I click the second, it disappears but keeps on
appearing on new pages.

I don't know what it means.  Could it be removed from the default
IceCat installation, or is it something (freedom) essential?

I am using IceCat 52.3.0 on GuixSD.

—Marco

--
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