[Bug-XBoard] [bug #34972] Several issues regarding lokalization
Update of bug #34972 (project xboard): Status: In Progress = Fixed Open/Closed:Open = Closed ___ Reply to this item at: http://savannah.gnu.org/bugs/?34972 ___ Message sent via/by Savannah http://savannah.gnu.org/ ___ Bug-XBoard mailing list Bug-XBoard@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-xboard
Re: [Bug-XBoard] [bug #34972] Several issues regarding lokalization
On 03-12-2011 19:02, h.g.mul...@hccnet.nl wrote: BTW, WinBoard did also not have a Danish translation yet. So if you have a taste for it now, there is no need to stop, as the winboard/language.txt template file of the source distro is still ready and waiting to be converted to a winboard/language/dansk.lng. ;-) Anyway, thanks for the good work and the feedback! H.G. Well, if you are able to use or convert the po-file, you are welcome. If would be difficult for me to make a winboard file, as I don't use MSWindows, and thus cannot even test if I messed up the file by some accident. And if I should make a translation for Winboard, I wouldn't even know what charset to use. UTF-8 or ISO-8859-1 or some non-standard MS charset which I don't know? I think a much more sound approach would be to also make Winboard use gettext. The po file format is much easier to work with for a translator as we can use special po file editor programs that make sure that only the translation and translation comments can edited, while the original text and the file structure cannot be accidentially damaged. These programs normally also have translation memory used to propose translations based on similar texts in the same or other po files, good search and replace functions etc. - Byrial ___ Bug-XBoard mailing list Bug-XBoard@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-xboard
[Bug-XBoard] [bug #34972] Several issues regarding lokalization
Follow-up Comment #3, bug #34972 (project xboard): Thanks, that was fast. PGN files should not be changed. The PGN specification does not allow for that, and it would not be portable. But I think the move notation should be changed in the Move list window and other places where a move is shown to the user. And it should also be changed for typing in the Type a move window. ___ Reply to this item at: http://savannah.gnu.org/bugs/?34972 ___ Message sent via/by Savannah http://savannah.gnu.org/ ___ Bug-XBoard mailing list Bug-XBoard@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-xboard
Re: [Bug-XBoard] [bug #34972] Several issues regarding lokalization
Some quick remarks: At 23:09 2-12-2011 +, Byrial Jensen wrote: 1) My testing shows several untranslatable strings: Unrecognized argument shuffle (in File New Shuffle Game) randomize (in File New Shuffle Game) pick fixed (in File New Shuffle Game) I think in 4.6 this dialog is now done by the generic popup, so this probably means we forgot to put the N_() macro around the strings in the defiing table (shuffleOptions ?) Browse (title for File Load/Save Game/Position) Filter on extensions: (in File Load/Save Game/Position) OK (in File Load/Save Game/Position) Cancel (in File Load/Save Game/Position) The above are all in the Ghostview file browser, which might not have been gettextized yet save changes (in Edit Tags + Comment) clear (in Edit Comment) Polyglot book not valid Engine (in Engine Output) Game-list options (window title) Hidden tags (in Game-list options) The latter is one of the entries in the listbox. In general these must not be translated, because they are names of tags in the PGN standard. But this one could be an exception. we must make sure that it would still be recognized as the separator on reading it back from the listbox to create the tag-order string, though. Stalemate (one of multiple game results) Black mates (one more of multiple game results) Xboard adjudication: Something (multiple strings) Some of these strings might come from the engine or a PGN file. The 'XBoard' adjudication' strings are tricky. They are used both for printing in the messge field above the board, as well as for writing into the PGN file. I discussed this on TalkChess, and the conclusion was that it is undesirable to have the messages translated in PGN, as this is supposed to be a format for interchanging files, and the one who cretes it will not always use the same laguage as the one who reads it. There is no harm in translating the strings just before they are printed in the message field. (This is whatWinBoard currently does.) But when the original result-details string comes from a PGN file made by an appliation other than XBoard, or directly from the engine, there is no limit to the variation such messages can take. Everything in Engine #1/#2 Settings (Seems unfinished with dummy examples) The options shown in the Engine Settigs dialogs are defined by the engine To get them translated you would have to use a translated version of the engine. Nothing XBoard can do about that; there are may hundreds of engines, and new ones emerge every day, and there is no way to predict what option names they wil try to display in the settings dialogs. Tourney participants (in Match Options) Everything in About Xboard window I figured that for legal reasons copyright notices should better not be translated Direct command Send to chess program: P (pause button in board window) %s vs. %s (board title when playing) Game list not loaded or empty first (engineNames value) second (engineNames value) There may be more untranslatable strings. The strings above is just what I found in a test run. 2) The browse buttons in all windows are not resized to be able hold the translated text for the word browse. They are all generated by the generic popup, which gives them a pre-defined width. I subtract that width from the preceeding text widget to get good alignment at the right margin. Xaw does not seem to support automatic sizing of the widget to align both margins; the only way I could get a non-ragged right margin is specify the size of every element. This makes it difficult to adapt the size of the browse buttons to the text they contain. It seems to need a two-step process, where we first realize the widget with a ragged right margin, but auto-sized browse buttons, and then adjust the width of the preceeding text widgets accordingly. This might ot be too difficult, though, as I seem to recall I do a second pass anyway for adjusting the width of the preceeding text labels to that of the longest. Presumably I could read otthe width of an auto-sized browse button before that, and then also adjustthe width of the text widgets acordingly in that second pass. 3) Move notation is not translatable. The letter used for pieces in algebraic notation depends on the language. It would require major changes in XBoard to do anything about that. Moves are not only used for display, but also saved on PGN, communicated with engines, and with ICS. I think using other move notation in PGN is acceptable, but require an extra tag redefining the notation, which is currently not implemented. But engines and ICS would not accept foreign notation (for promotion piece or FEN). XBoard already has a -pieceToCharTable option which can be used to set other piece IDs, which could be used to read foreign PGN in game viewer mode, but these IDs are then used globally throughout XBoard, which would break it for using engines or ICS. To avoid that, XBoard would have to be re-written
Re: [Bug-XBoard] [bug #34972] Several issues regarding lokalization
At 11:00 3-12-2011 +, Byrial Jensen wrote: Follow-up Comment #3, bug #34972 (project xboard): Thanks, that was fast. PGN files should not be changed. The PGN specification does not allow for that, and it would not be portable. But I think the move notation should be changed in the Move list window and other places where a move is shown to the user. And it should also be changed for typing in the Type a move window. I agree. But this is something that transcends the normal localization by string translation by far, and would require the XBoard routines for parsing and generating moves to use different pieceToCharTables depending on the source and intended destination of the move. Even the -pieceNickNames option is now applied globally to all input moves. This means you can only use it to define nick names that do not collide with existing names fromother sources. So it would be OK to define B and N as nicknames for E and H in Xiangqi. But defining Dutch names OPLTD.opltd. with it would make any P be interpreted as Knight rather than Pawn, interfering with reading FENs from PGN. It is a hard problem, because changing variant has to redefine the pieceToCharTable anyway, so to make it work would require XBoard to have a national version of the pieceToCharTable for every variant, to be used as a default there. I don't expect this could be fixed on ay short term, mainly for lack of ideas how it should be done. ___ Bug-XBoard mailing list Bug-XBoard@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-xboard
[Bug-XBoard] [bug #34972] Several issues regarding lokalization
Follow-up Comment #4, bug #34972 (project xboard): Just tried the new git version. Remember to update po/POTFILES.in with all source files which strings marked for translation. ___ Reply to this item at: http://savannah.gnu.org/bugs/?34972 ___ Message sent via/by Savannah http://savannah.gnu.org/ ___ Bug-XBoard mailing list Bug-XBoard@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-xboard
[Bug-XBoard] [bug #34972] Several issues regarding lokalization
Follow-up Comment #5, bug #34972 (project xboard): done... I also did a new developer release and emailed a new pot-file to the translation project. ___ Reply to this item at: http://savannah.gnu.org/bugs/?34972 ___ Message sent via/by Savannah http://savannah.gnu.org/ ___ Bug-XBoard mailing list Bug-XBoard@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-xboard
Re: [Bug-XBoard] [bug #34972] Several issues regarding lokalization
BTW, WinBoard did also not have a Danish translation yet. So if you have a taste for it now, there is no need to stop, as the winboard/language.txt template file of the source distro is still ready and waiting to be converted to a winboard/language/dansk.lng. ;-) Anyway, thanks for the good work and the feedback! H.G. ___ Bug-XBoard mailing list Bug-XBoard@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-xboard
Re: [Bug-XBoard] [bug #34972] Several issues regarding lokalization
At 20:38 3-12-2011 +0100, Byrial Jensen wrote: Well, if you are able to use or convert the po-file, you are welcome. If would be difficult for me to make a winboard file, as I don't use MSWindows, and thus cannot even test if I messed up the file by some accident. Unfortunately I have only a WinBoard .lng fileto .po coverter,and not the other way around. The conversion is non-trivial, because may of the English strings are ust a bit different (e.g. menu keys separated from item text by tabs, in stead of spaces). And if I should make a translation for Winboard, I wouldn't even know what charset to use. UTF-8 or ISO-8859-1 or some non-standard MS charset which I don't know? That is not very critical, as there are converters for that. That is also how I do the conversion .lng to .po: use an ed script to change the format without altering the translated strings, and then run the converter on the .pofiletomake it UTF-8. I don't know what a Danish Windows would use as charset, but I would guess it is Latin-1 (like all of Western Europe) I think a much more sound approach would be to also make Winboard use gettext. Unfortunately gettext does not work at all on WinBoard, because all menu and dialog texts are not in the C code, but in a Windows 'resource' file, which has to be compiled by the resource compiler, which does not understand gettext stuff. But the WinBoard system is not bad at all. You cannot damage anything, because the translation is just a data file, loaded by WinBoard when you select the language. So you can change language during the session, by simply picking another language from the menu. You don't even have to recompile for adding a new laguage. Just put the .lng file in the directory, and the next session the laguage will appear in the menu. H.G. The po file format is much easier to work with for a translator as we can use special po file editor programs that make sure that only the translation and translation comments can edited, while the original text and the file structure cannot be accidentially damaged. These programs normally also have translation memory used to propose translations based on similar texts in the same or other po files, good search and replace functions etc. - Byrial ___ Bug-XBoard mailing list Bug-XBoard@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-xboard
[Bug-XBoard] [bug #34972] Several issues regarding lokalization
Update of bug #34972 (project xboard): Category:None = XBoard (X11) Status:None = Confirmed Assigned to:None = apersaud ___ Follow-up Comment #1: Getting the translation to work is a recent effort and there are probably quite a few things that are wrong in the code, so thanks for reporting these. I'll try to fix the reported issues this weekend and will send an updated pot file to the translation project. ___ Reply to this item at: http://savannah.gnu.org/bugs/?34972 ___ Message sent via/by Savannah http://savannah.gnu.org/ ___ Bug-XBoard mailing list Bug-XBoard@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-xboard
