RE: Release planning?

2015-12-17 Thread Simon Peyton Jones
Thanks Mikhail

When you make the release, do advertise to us non-Cabal-experts about the new 
no-reinstall ability and how to use it.  It's a game-changer.

Edward's blog post describes the issue
http://blog.ezyang.com/2015/09/is-no-reinstall-cabal-coming-to-ghc-8/
Having another blog post describing the solution would be excellent; with 
pointers from the Cabal home page.

Simon

|  -Original Message-
|  From: the.dead.shall.r...@gmail.com
|  [mailto:the.dead.shall.r...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Mikhail Glushenkov
|  Sent: 16 December 2015 22:49
|  To: Simon Peyton Jones <simo...@microsoft.com>
|  Cc: Bardur Arantsson <s...@scientician.net>; cabal-devel ; Gershom B <gersh...@gmail.com>
|  Subject: Re: Release planning?
|  
|  Hi Simon,
|  
|  On 14 December 2015 at 14:03, Simon Peyton Jones
|  <simo...@microsoft.com> wrote:
|  > |  Yes, there will be a release of Cabal/cabal-install together with
|  > | GHC  8.
|  >
|  > Can I ask what will be in it?  Specifically, I would love to know
|  what
|  > you plan concerning the issues in this snip:
|  
|  I've just posted a status update to the cabal-dev mailing list:
|  
|  https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2farticl
|  e.gmane.org%2fgmane.comp.lang.haskell.cabal.devel%2f10456=01%7c01
|  %7csimonpj%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cbf7f44b8e6ba4c9cab0108d3066b1145
|  %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1=lGhYz6fKEwLfalgWZXu7jZve
|  BtnJVBqix8djS1SrIsc%3d
|  
|  Cabal/cabal-install 1.24 will include Duncan's no-reinstall work in
|  some form (likely a "technical preview"). The Cabal library parts have
|  just been merged. Gershom's minimal HP patch is already in Cabal
|  master.
|  
|  It's possible that cabal-install 1.24 will not be released
|  simultaneously with Cabal 1.24, so the HP 8 release may also be
|  delayed a little bit.
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Re: Release planning?

2015-12-16 Thread Mikhail Glushenkov
Hi Simon,

On 14 December 2015 at 14:03, Simon Peyton Jones  wrote:
> |  Yes, there will be a release of Cabal/cabal-install together with GHC
> |  8.
>
> Can I ask what will be in it?  Specifically, I would love to know
> what you plan concerning the issues in this snip:

I've just posted a status update to the cabal-dev mailing list:

http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.haskell.cabal.devel/10456

Cabal/cabal-install 1.24 will include Duncan's no-reinstall work in
some form (likely a "technical preview"). The Cabal library parts have
just been merged. Gershom's minimal HP patch is already in Cabal
master.

It's possible that cabal-install 1.24 will not be released
simultaneously with Cabal 1.24, so the HP 8 release may also be
delayed a little bit.
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RE: Release planning?

2015-12-14 Thread Simon Peyton Jones
Hi Mikhal

Thank you for stepping up to be the Cabal "chair".  

|  Yes, there will be a release of Cabal/cabal-install together with GHC
|  8.

Can I ask what will be in it?  Specifically, I would love to know 
what you plan concerning the issues in this snip:

| As I understand it, the idea is that for the GHC 8.0 release 
| we will also have a new Haskell Platform.  And that new HP will 
| not suffer from at least some of the flaws that have caused angst 
| in the past.
|
| The message from Mark and Michael is attached, but it dates back 
| to July.   Since then Mark has stood down, and Gershom has taken 
| over (thanks Gershom).  So I have a number of questions
| • Does the plan (attached) remain the same?
| • What development work (if any) , in HP or Cabal or 
| stack, is needed to achieve that?  Is it done, or in 
| progress, or not started?
| • GHC has for some time had the hooks to install multiple
| instances of the same library without conflict, but Cabal 
| does not (or did not).  I know Duncan was planning to do 
| this.   Will the Cabal that comes with HP 8.0 have this ability?
|
| I ask because there is lots of traffic about getting GHC 8.0 
| ready for release, but I haven’t seen any about HP or Cabal.  
| Maybe I’m just not on the right mailing lists.
|
| Regardless, would it be worth some announcements so that the 
| Haskell community knows the plan?   If I don’t know, probably 
| many others do not.

I enclose three replies to that message, but the discussion 
never converged to a conclusion.

Since then Gershom did send an update about the HP, also attached,
but that didn't cover Cabal.

Much of this this pre-dates when you became chair, so you won't 
have seen it before, but you will be very familiar with the issues.
I'd love to know in more detail what you plan for Cabal and cabal-install,
esp concerning choices (1) and (2) outlined in Edward Yang's message attached.

thanks again

Simon

--- Begin Message ---
tl;dr: We'd like to incorporate stack into Haskell Platform, and stop shipping 
pre-built packages, so we banish cabal hell, and have a single common way to 
'get Haskell' that just works.

At ICFP '14, there were several long group discussions of the state of "getting 
Haskell", including Haskell Platform, Stackage, and other approaches. Over the 
last year, there have been a few more public discussions and evolution on the 
ideas, and other installer developments. In particular, Stackage's LTS package 
sets are a direct development from this work, and the release of stack has 
offered new options.

Today, drawing from all this good work and ideas from so many, we'd would like 
to propose a concrete plan:

*   Haskell Platform becomes the standard way to get GHC and related tools: 
alex, cabal, happy, hscolour, and stack. It's a user-friendly, cross-platform 
installer that gives a standard way to "get Haskell" for most users.
*   Use the stack model for package installation:


   *The global db has only the GHC packages
   *There is a package db for each curated set, Haskell Platform becomes 
one such set
   *Projects each have their own package db, much like sandboxes.

*   Haskell Platform's installer will no longer include pre-built, 
pre-installed packages other than GHC's set. Instead, it is configured so that 
stack can be used to build and install, on as needed, the corresponding Haskell 
Platform release packages.

We think this plan solves many different community needs:

*   We have a clear way to "get Haskell" that works for a wide variety of 
use cases.
*   HP installer gets much smaller, and about as minimal as a working 
installation can get.
*   By leaving most packages out of the global database, users of 
cabal-install, will now have far fewer problems. Sandbox builds should now 
never give users "cabal hell" like warnings.
*   By building and installing the Platform packages into it's own package 
db, users get the benefit of building and installing these common packages only 
once per system, yet can easily bypass them for any given project if desired.
*   Since the Platform packages are now built and installed as needed, 
installing on smaller systems or servers without OpenGL will work.

To do this, we have a bit of work ahead of us: We need to settle on 
installation layout for each OS (including getting msys into the Windows 
installer); decide on the naming and versioning of the Platform package set (is 
it just LTS? does it have a different life cycle? etc...); getting stack ready 
such a distribution; and configuring (or updating) cabal-install to support the 
three-layer package db scheme. We think we can do this in short order.

We recognize this represents a significant change for the Platform, and will 
require buy-in from the various parts, especially ghc, cabal, and stack. We'd 
like to get your input.

- Michael & Mark
___

Re: Release planning?

2015-12-13 Thread Mikhail Glushenkov
Hi,

On 13 December 2015 at 14:05, Bardur Arantsson  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Where does release planning happen? I'd like to start on merging some
> solver-related PRs, but if there's an imminent release, that might not
> be such a good idea...

Yes, there will be a release of Cabal/cabal-install together with GHC 8.
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Re: Release planning?

2015-12-13 Thread Mikhail Glushenkov
Hi,

On 13 December 2015 at 21:01, Echo Nolan  wrote:
> Is it the general rule that Cabal releases are synced with GHC releases, or
> can Cabal releases be more frequent?

Yes, they can, and we actually want them to. Ideally, a new
Cabal/cabal-install version would be released every six months, though
in this cycle this didn't happen.
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Re: Release planning?

2015-12-13 Thread Echo Nolan
Is it the general rule that Cabal releases are synced with GHC releases, or
can Cabal releases be more frequent?

On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 11:26 AM Mikhail Glushenkov <
mikhail.glushen...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On 13 December 2015 at 14:05, Bardur Arantsson 
> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Where does release planning happen? I'd like to start on merging some
> > solver-related PRs, but if there's an imminent release, that might not
> > be such a good idea...
>
> Yes, there will be a release of Cabal/cabal-install together with GHC 8.
> ___
> cabal-devel mailing list
> cabal-devel@haskell.org
> http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cabal-devel
>
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Re: Release planning?

2015-12-13 Thread Bardur Arantsson
On 12/13/2015 08:26 PM, Mikhail Glushenkov wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On 13 December 2015 at 14:05, Bardur Arantsson  wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Where does release planning happen? I'd like to start on merging some
>> solver-related PRs, but if there's an imminent release, that might not
>> be such a good idea...
> 
> Yes, there will be a release of Cabal/cabal-install together with GHC 8.
> 

I'd gathered as much :).

When (or where, i.e. which commit) is the branch-off point? Does anybody
know? Would it make sense to do it now-ish, or do we need to wait for
GHC 8.0rc1 or something?

Regards,


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