Re: [Callers] More substitute terms for the g-word

[Delia Clark via Callers]

I just wanted to report in that I used “look-see” today with a group of K-8 
elementary students and I thought it worked fabulously! They really understood 
the point of the move much better than the random g-word, and it was so cute to 
watch them intently and playfully gazing at each other as they went around. One 
of the band members particularly called out that she noticed my new language 
and thought it was brilliant and a big improvement. 

Obviously this is a group with little to no prior associations or names for the 
move, so no baggage. It was just a great name that worked, at least with that 
younger crowd and their parents/teachers.

I mentioned the problem to the band that someone on this list raised about not 
offending blind dancers with words referring to eyes and seeing, but they 
pointed out that we say “right hand turn” which would be equally unfair to a 
dancer missing an arm, and they felt that wasn’t a reason not to use it, as 
there are many ways of “seeing”.



> On Mar 16, 2018, at 1:00 PM, Ron Blechner via Callers 
>  wrote:
> 
> I also use "face-to-face", which I learned from Eric. I've heard Steve Z-A 
> and Lisa G switch to these terms, at least where I've heard them call.
> 
> I also use "right shoulder round" when it's a multi-caller event and that's 
> what people like. We agreed to this for Flurry Festival last month, and it 
> worked well all weekend with thousands of dancers.
> 
> I want to also echo that anything that sounds too much like g*psy is going to 
> rub at least some people the wrong way. I also thought jets/rubies was a 
> winner, and I've acknowledged that too many people think jet is a problem.
> 
> In dance,
> Ron Blechner
> 
> On Thu, Mar 15, 2018, 12:00 AM Eric Black via Callers 
> > 
> wrote:
> I’m still bemused and befuddled that not so many years ago, this dance move 
> was decried because of perceived forced invasion of personal space. People 
> did not want to be told that they had to make eye contact when they were not 
> comfortable with it, that they did not like being told to flirt with people 
> they did not choose. Some of us callers told dancers that the eye contact was 
> optional, that the essential part of the move was that it was a face-to-face 
> do-si-do, no spins or twirls, just moving around each other.
> 
> Now the argument against the name of the move has completely lost all ground 
> on that front.
> 
> For some years I’ve used “face-to-face”, teaching it with the memorable 
> description “imagine a short gold chain joining the rings in your noses”.  
> Eye contact is optional, and not directed; dancers will or will not make eye 
> contact as they choose.  In private communication with a young caller who is 
> very vocal in various discussion fora I said there was no need to attribute 
> the term to me. Maybe I should have insisted.
> 
> I’ve tried “right [left] shoulder round” with favorable reception. 
> 
> ANYway, if we’ve been making progress in removing real or perceived invasions 
> of personal space, and gender issues, why regress in order to change the name 
> of a dance move to make progress in removing real or perceived ethnic slurs?
> 
> And no, “spiral” is out of the question. It’s a different move that includes 
> changing the distance between the dancers, whereas the move under discussion 
> does not.  English dancers know the difference.
> 
> Eric Black
> e...@eric-black.com 
> 
> 
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<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>

Delia Clark
PO Box 45
Taftsville, VT 05073
Office/mobile: +1-802-457-2075
deliacla...@gmail.com
www.deliaclarkconfluence.com



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Re: [Callers] Leading, consent in embellishments

[John Sweeney via Callers]

My belief:

 

For the actual dance there is only one Leader: that is the caller.

 

All the dancers are Followers, following the caller’s Lead.

 

Any suggestion that one role has a leading responsibility is misleading and 
does disservice to all the dancers in the other role.

 

Historically this was different.  The Men led the Ladies down the set.  The Men 
swung the Ladies.  We try to avoid terminology like that these days.  I don’t 
think we should go backwards.

 

However, within the dance, when a flourish or embellishment takes place, then 
Lead/Follow happens briefly and dynamically just for that couple for that 
embellishment.

 

That is my feeling.

 

Happy dancing,  

   John   



John Sweeney, Dancer, England   j...@modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802 940 
574  

http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive Events & DVDs 
   

http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent   
   

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[Callers] A Cry for Edits to Your Replies

[K Panton via Callers]

My complaint originates with the "daily summary" email as read on my phone.

I find that if I got to the list archives website, it is much easier to
read and comprehend.

KP
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[Callers] Please cancel

[Walter Daves via Callers]

Please cancel my subscription to the caller's LISTSERV.

Thanks

Walter Daves

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Re: [Callers] More substitute terms for the g-word

[Ron Blechner via Callers]

I also use "face-to-face", which I learned from Eric. I've heard Steve Z-A
and Lisa G switch to these terms, at least where I've heard them call.

I also use "right shoulder round" when it's a multi-caller event and that's
what people like. We agreed to this for Flurry Festival last month, and it
worked well all weekend with thousands of dancers.

I want to also echo that anything that sounds too much like g*psy is going
to rub at least some people the wrong way. I also thought jets/rubies was a
winner, and I've acknowledged that too many people think jet is a problem.

In dance,
Ron Blechner

On Thu, Mar 15, 2018, 12:00 AM Eric Black via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> I’m still bemused and befuddled that not so many years ago, this dance
> move was decried because of perceived forced invasion of personal space.
> People did not want to be told that they had to make eye contact when they
> were not comfortable with it, that they did not like being told to flirt
> with people they did not choose. Some of us callers told dancers that the
> eye contact was optional, that the essential part of the move was that it
> was a face-to-face do-si-do, no spins or twirls, just moving around each
> other.
>
> Now the argument against the name of the move has completely lost all
> ground on that front.
>
> For some years I’ve used “face-to-face”, teaching it with the memorable
> description “imagine a short gold chain joining the rings in your noses”.
> Eye contact is optional, and not directed; dancers will or will not make
> eye contact as they choose.  In private communication with a young caller
> who is very vocal in various discussion fora I said there was no need to
> attribute the term to me. Maybe I should have insisted.
>
> I’ve tried “right [left] shoulder round” with favorable reception.
>
> ANYway, if we’ve been making progress in removing real or perceived
> invasions of personal space, and gender issues, why regress in order to
> change the name of a dance move to make progress in removing real or
> perceived ethnic slurs?
>
> And no, “spiral” is out of the question. It’s a different move that
> includes changing the distance between the dancers, whereas the move under
> discussion does not.  English dancers know the difference.
>
> Eric Black
> e...@eric-black.com
>
>
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>
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Re: [Callers] Leading, consent in embellishments

[Ron Blechner via Callers]

Thanks, Jack.

I think we, as callers, ought to acknowledge there are 2 camps of dancers,
believing either:

1. Gents/Larks role is implicitly "led", and ladies/Ravens role is
implicitly "follow" (along with all of the good comments about consent,
such as Maia's)

2. Contra is implicitly not lead/follow, and any initiating can be done
from either role.

Either way to dance can be valid. Because both are valid, then we cannot
assume either is default. Thus, technically both viewpoints are wrong.
Contra is not *implicitly* one or the other. And in fact, I dance both
styles, depending on partner. Sometimes, I feel like one style and the very
next dance I might feel like the other. Options!

Neither viewpoint is universal, nor is either rare. Thus, if we don't
acknowledge that these both exist, we are doing a huge disservice by
denying dancers to dance the way they want to dance.

Thus, as callers, the view we should treat lead/follow are *style* choices.
And while some areas may have dominant styles, it's not right to stifle
either. Thus I have several practical recommendations:

1. Refer to it as style choice.
2. Get to know what your dance partners' preference is. Don't presume one
or the other.
3. Lead/Follow are not appropriate role terms, because they dismiss people
whose style is not that.
4. Teach leading tips for both roles. Like, you have a long lines, and then
a mad robin or gents/larks allemande left? The ladies/Ravens are leading
the move by easing the gents/Larks into those moves.

In dance,
Ron Blechner


On Mon, Mar 12, 2018, 10:09 AM Jack Mitchell via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> My friend Ron Blechner wrote a wonderful piece
> 
>  a
> few years ago about "lead" and "follow" as being how one can dance
> whichever role in contra you are dancing.  I commend it to your attention.
> It's tangentially related, but that's not really what you were asking
> about.
>
> A few thoughts on that:
>
> Any lead *offered *from one dancer to another should be just that -- an
> offer -- and not a command.  It shouldn't be so forceful that it can't be
> refused.  Additionally, the person leading the flourish should be ready for
> the person to refuse (or not to respond) and be ready to continue with
> whatever courtesy turn  or completion of a swing would have normally been
> expected.
>
> I believe that the response to any lead can be one of three (or possibly
> more) response: "Yes!", "No!" and "What was that??!" and that if you get
> either of the latter two responses those should be taken as a "no" and the
> one leading that move should continue on with whatever the default version
> of that move might be.
>
> So, how do you ask that "question"?
>
>- You can just ask verbally.  A long time dancer in our local
>community will, when he encounters me in the line dancing the lady's /
>right side role, ask me "Twirling today?"  And we've been dancing in the
>same community for approaching 20 years now.  I have had others ask as we
>start swinging if I am ok being dipped.  (The answer is almost always yes,
>but occasionally it's not, and it only takes a second.)
>- A lot of swing exits / flourishes, can be "pre-led".  There is some
>part of the lead that you can start just a couple of counts before you
>would actually do it.  This can be a way of asking that question.  It also
>allows your partner to be ready to change which direction they're going,
>and generally to use much less force in the lead.  A few examples
>Starting to bring the joined hands in a swing up just a bit a few counts
>before the twirl would happen, or bringing the "gent's" left hand to the
>"lady's" shoulder, and then using very light pressure on the back of the
>"lady's" left shoulder and the front of her right to cue the twirl out of
>the swing.
>- We will frequently say in the newcomers lesson that a sign of an
>offered twirl is for the twirling person's partner to lift their joined
>hands (either the "pointy end" hands in a swing or the left hand in a
>courtesy turn, and that if one is not desiring a twirl at that particular
>moment, that one should pull that hand back down.  To that I would just add
>that as the person leading the twirl raises the appropriate hand, no
>reaction / limp arm probably is best to take as a "No" or at least as a
>"What was that??" and move along.  If it's your partner, you can always
>talk about the various flourishes and try again.
>
> So I suppose what it mostly comes down to is:
>
>1. Many leads should be able to be able to be refused / ignored
>2. If you're dancing with someone you don't know, and you want to lead
>something that is difficult to do in a refusable way (dips come to mind),
>ask.
>
>
>- Even if you encounter someone you do know if you don't have time to

[Callers] A Cry for Edits to Your Replies

[K Panton via Callers]

This morning I received an update to this list that was entirely
unintelligible. Not because it was long, or that it had several replies on
a topic (substitute terms for gypsy) but because the submissions were made
without removing all that had gone before.

It was one long mass of words which I had no desire to parse.

This is a shortcoming of the mailing list software, to be sure, but please,
when you reply on a topic, take the time to remove all but the most
necessary of previous words that will form part (the annoying bulk?) of
your message.

I really appreciate being able to hear many voices on this list but when it
is gibberish, I am simply frustrated.

Thanks for reading.

Ken Panton
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