Re: [Callers] Name that Dance, part 3312

[Chet Gray via Callers]

The first one is, indeed, Nils' "Have I Danced This Before".

— Chet Gray
dance caller
Louisville, KY

 (502) 419-7008 <+1-502-419-7008>


On Sat, Feb 23, 2019 at 1:15 PM Alexandra Deis-Lauby via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> If nils called the first one it might be “have I danced this before?” He
> wrote it. I know if has a two hand turn.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Feb 23, 2019, at 12:50 PM, frannie via Callers <
> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> The second dance is one I called: Kindred Spirits version 2 by Chris
> Page.  Becket starts slide circle do si do to wave. The original dance
> Kindred Spirits is a petronella version with a N swing. See Chris' website.
>
> Twirls,
> Frannie
>
> On Sat, Feb 23, 2019, 9:40 AM Maia McCormick via Callers <
> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> Trying to track down name + author for two deliiightful dances I had at
>> Dance Flurry, can anyone help?
>>
>> Dance the first, improper:
>> A1: circle L 1x
>> N two-hand turn 1.5
>> A2: larks alle. L 1.5
>> half hey (P by R)
>> B1: P balance and swing
>> B2: long lines, lark roll partner away
>> circle R 3/4
>>
>> Dance the second, improper, starts in short waves:
>> A1: bal. wave, spin R
>> N pull by L, ravens chain
>> A2: full hey (ravens by R)
>> B1: P balance and swing
>> B2 ...? (circle L 3, pass thru and dosido I think?)
>>
>> Thanks all!
>> - Maia
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Re: [Callers] Another vote for "jets" and "rubies"

[Chet Gray via Callers]

In regards to the present variety in role terminology, I may be fairly
alone in this opinion, but I hope we never intentionally arrive at a grand
consensus.

I love that different terms for roles have sprung up in different
communities, just as I love that so many wonderful terms have sprung up for
eye-turn/shoulder-turn/spiral. I love hearing "allemande", "hand turn", and
"hand 'round" in different communities. I love that "dosado" means
drastically different things in different long-lived community ("square")
dances. I love that some communities default to hands-across stars while
others default to wrist-hold stars. I love that there are at least three
different promenade positions, and each is default in different
communities. As much as my engineer brain would enjoy it, I hope we never
have a CALLERLAB to strictly define terminology and steps for contra dances.

— Chet Gray
dance caller
Louisville, KY
 (502) 419-7008 <+1-502-419-7008>

On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 11:42 AM, Donna Hunt via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> I'm sad to hear that so many groups are using different role terms and
> such a variety to boot.  Not only do our beginners have to learn a brand
> new vocabulary (sometimes in a foreign language) and then remember the
> movement to go with those new words, but now they have to deal with
> remembering a role that there's no basis for, and that role term changes at
> different dance locations.  Augh my head hurts just thinking about it.
>
> Donna
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Ron Blechner via Callers 
> To: Barbara Groh 
> Cc: callers 
> Sent: Thu, Jan 26, 2017 3:37 am
> Subject: Re: [Callers] Another vote for "jets" and "rubies"
>
> Let's please not presume to speak for the feelings of marginalized groups?
>
> Not thinking something is a problem because it doesn't affect you
> personally is super privileged.
>
> Ron Blechner
>
> On Jan 25, 2017 1:36 PM, "Barbara Groh via Callers" <
> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> Michael, if this view makes you a Luddite, sign me up as a member of the
>> Luddite Club.  I think it's realistic to say that the members of all the
>> contra, English, and Square Dance groups will NEVER all agree on which
>> alternative terms to use for ladies and gents, so all these new terms being
>> bounced around will only cause confusion (and some eye-rolling).
>>
>> You've already made a solid argument for the Luddite position, so I won't
>> say anything moreexcept this:  Please, let's not start an argument over
>> whether it's pejorative to use the term Luddite!
>>
>> Barbara Groh
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 24, 2017 at 4:55 PM, Michael Barraclough via Callers <
>> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I guess that I am a Luddite. Here's how I see it.
>>>
>>> Somewhere between 80-90% of the population is 'straight'. Surely, we
>>> want these people as well to come to our dances.  It can be difficult
>>> enough to get past the dance lingo without adding the complexity of
>>> renaming labels for people that almost everyone already understands. To me,
>>> what really matters is that we run dances where everyone accepts everyone
>>> else's sexuality; where individual dancers can feel free to dance either
>>> role; where everyone is welcome. I am not convinced that 'non-straight'
>>> individuals are put off by the historical labels that we use, rather the
>>> lack of the 3 conditions that I have just outlined.
>>>
>>> Census data show the U.S. adult population is about 239m. Searching the
>>> web I can find around 300 contra dances, 150 English Country Dances and
>>> 1000 MWSD clubs. My generous guess is that less than 100,000 people go
>>> to these dances, less than 50,000 if we ignore MWSD. Did you know that
>>> over 700,000 people in the U.S. own a ferret? That means there are 7x as
>>> many people in the USA who own a ferret compared to the number of people
>>> who go to our dances!
>>>
>>> Let's put less rather than more barriers in the way of getting those
>>> who don't dance with us (that's 99.6% of the population) to join us.
>>>
>>> Michael Barraclough
>>> www.michaelbarraclough.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, 2017-01-24 at 16:19 -0500, Ron Blechner via Callers wrote:
>>> > I know I'd appreciate it if people had new suggestions, they'd review
>>> > existing considerations for what makes terms usable. Things like 1:2
>>> > syllable ratio, distinct vowel sounds - these disqualify a lot of
>>> > terms as being unfeasible for the same reason "bare arms / arm bands"
>>> > as terms are not preferable. The PDF spreadsheet that Dugan linked is
>>> > the result of my study with teamwork and sourcing from many dancers.
>>> >
>>> > Best,
>>> > Ron Blechner
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Jan 20, 2017 7:28 PM, "Keith Tuxhorn via Callers" >> > haredweight.net> wrote:
>>> > > This conversation exhausts me,  even though I know and accept it's
>>> 

Re: [Callers] Another vote for "jets" and "rubies"

[Chet Gray via Callers]

Michael, is there any real reason to maintain the conflation that a male
person ends a swing on the left and a female person ends a swing on the
right? I see none.

Nobody is proposing "funny terms for people when [...] we already have
perfectly good terms". There aren't *any* terms for people. Just those dang
terms for dance positions that happen to have historical conflation with
genitalia.

Far too many new (and even not-so-new) dancers of whom I've asked "do you
have a preferred role for this dance?" have never even considered the
possibility that role has *absolutely nothing* to do with one's gender.
They have never considered dancing the "non-traditional" role because of
the subtle (and sometimes, regrettably, overt) reinforcement of the
male-dancer="gent"-position female-dancer="lady"-position.

Why reinforce that conflation at all?

On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 2:26 AM, Michael Barraclough via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> On Fri, 2017-01-27 at 09:04 -0500, Angela DeCarlis via Callers wrote:
> And many people are fine with things the way they are! I get that, and
> that's great for you, but why on earth wouldn't you change things if it
> meant being more inclusive, more just?
>
> I understand that from your perspective we would be more inclusive if
> we used gender-free terminology. It is my belief, however, that the
> majority of the population would see the use of gender-free terminology
> for roles as something that 'excluded' them - additional terms used by
> a private club of people with their own rituals, kind of like masonry.
> They can understand why we might need funny terms for the moves. They
> cannot understand why we need funny terms for people when (as far as
> they are concerned) we already have perfectly good terms -
> men/gents/blokes and women/ladies/sheilas etc. From their perspective
> it is definitely not 'inclusive'.
>
> Michael Barraclough
> www.michaelbarraclough.com
>
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Re: [Callers] Wrist-Lock Stars

[Chet Gray via Callers]

Susan, thanks for relating some of LCD's history! I had figured
Louisville's hands-across was due to historic influence from regional
square dancing. I'm curious of the actual cause of the the (relatively
recent, it seems) switch from wrist-hold to hands-across. I'll ask some
folks next Monday.

On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 9:21 PM, Susan McElroy-Marcus <
smcelroymar...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Just a bit of Louisville dance community history on this subject—when my
> husband started dancing there in the late 70’s and I came in 1982, the
> Monday night dance was a mix of English and contra.  The default
> contradance star grip was the “wrist lock” not hands across as in English.
> We called it a basket handhold or wrist grip.  Our influence came from New
> England because our friend, Norb Spencer, who started the group along with
> Marie and Frank (Cassidy?) and who called much of the time—learned in New
> England.  We then taught it that way when we moved to Cincinnati and
> started that group.  Louisville only became a “bastion of
> hands-across-by-default” sometime in the late 1990’s or ealy 2000’s during
> my calling hiatus.  When I re-entered the calling scene 6-7 years ago, I
> was surprised and bemused upon calling in Louisville to learn of the high
> regard held for their ‘traditional’ hands-across star style.
> Susan McElroy-Marcus
>
> *From:* Chet Gray via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
> *Sent:* Monday, October 10, 2016 9:44 AM
> *To:* Tim Klein <mrtimkl...@yahoo.com>
> *Cc:* callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> *Subject:* Re: [Callers] Wrist-Lock Stars
>
> I tend to consider my home dance, Louisville, KY, and nearby Lexington, as
> two of the last bastions of hands-across-by-default. Wrist-grip seems to be
> the default (for contra; squares are a different matter) even in relatively
> nearby cities: Indianapolis, Bloomington, IN, Nashville, Cincinnati. Not
> sure about Berea and Somerset, KY, also nearby.
>
> I'd be hesitant to use weekends, Flurry in particular, as bellwethers of
> what is typical in anything but weekends. I'd wager that the vast majority
> of contra dancers, even habitual dancers, have never been to a dance
> weekend, perhaps not even their "home" weekend. Just as there is a sort of
> "weekend-style" dance program, there is a "weekend-style" of dancing that
> is a pidgin not necessarily representative of any particular regional style.
>
> On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 9:41 AM, Tim Klein via Callers <
> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> I call for dances in Knoxville, TN and occasionally in the surrounding
>> area (Jonesboro, Chattanooga). I've been dancing here for 30 years. Kaufman
>> was correct. I recall hands across stars in Knoxville, Atlanta, Brasstown,
>> Asheville and points between, but wrist grip stars in Lexington, Louisville
>> and Nashville. I'm certain about Knoxville, but perhaps others can confirm
>> for the other cities.
>>
>> The wrist star has gradually taken over as the default in the area, but a
>> couple of us old-timers are still holding out. I still teach the hands
>> across star in the pre-dance lesson because it's quicker, but acknowledge
>> that there are variations. When I call and dance, I still prompt and
>> encourage the hands-across grip. We've got to hold onto our traditions and
>> fight the globalization of contra, right?
>>
>> Of course, there are situations where one variety works better than
>> another - to/from a move with an adjacent person (star to alemande,
>> courtesy turn to star) suggests a wrist star, while moves where the contact
>> is across (star old neighbors to star with new, ladies start star then
>> gents join in) suggest the hands across. In those cases, I'll explicitly
>> suggest one version in the walk through.
>>
>> Tim Klein
>> Knoxville, TN
>>
>> --
>> *From:* Dave Casserly via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
>> *To:* John Sweeney <j...@modernjive.com>
>> *Cc:* "callers@lists.sharedweight.net" <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
>> *Sent:* Monday, October 10, 2016 8:37 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: [Callers] Wrist-Lock Stars
>>
>> Jeff Kaufman wrote a paper on regional variations in contra dance.
>> Here's what he found
>> <https://www.swarthmore.edu/sites/default/files/assets/documents/linguistics/2007_kaufman_jeff.pdf>
>> for wrist-grip stars (page 31 of the link).  Basically, they're common
>> everywhere in the US except in some parts of the South.  This is based on
>> data from ten or more years ago, so I'm not sure if that's still true.  I
>> would not be surpr

Re: [Callers] Wrist-Lock Stars

[Chet Gray via Callers]

I tend to consider my home dance, Louisville, KY, and nearby Lexington, as
two of the last bastions of hands-across-by-default. Wrist-grip seems to be
the default (for contra; squares are a different matter) even in relatively
nearby cities: Indianapolis, Bloomington, IN, Nashville, Cincinnati. Not
sure about Berea and Somerset, KY, also nearby.

I'd be hesitant to use weekends, Flurry in particular, as bellwethers of
what is typical in anything but weekends. I'd wager that the vast majority
of contra dancers, even habitual dancers, have never been to a dance
weekend, perhaps not even their "home" weekend. Just as there is a sort of
"weekend-style" dance program, there is a "weekend-style" of dancing that
is a pidgin not necessarily representative of any particular regional style.

On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 9:41 AM, Tim Klein via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> I call for dances in Knoxville, TN and occasionally in the surrounding
> area (Jonesboro, Chattanooga). I've been dancing here for 30 years. Kaufman
> was correct. I recall hands across stars in Knoxville, Atlanta, Brasstown,
> Asheville and points between, but wrist grip stars in Lexington, Louisville
> and Nashville. I'm certain about Knoxville, but perhaps others can confirm
> for the other cities.
>
> The wrist star has gradually taken over as the default in the area, but a
> couple of us old-timers are still holding out. I still teach the hands
> across star in the pre-dance lesson because it's quicker, but acknowledge
> that there are variations. When I call and dance, I still prompt and
> encourage the hands-across grip. We've got to hold onto our traditions and
> fight the globalization of contra, right?
>
> Of course, there are situations where one variety works better than
> another - to/from a move with an adjacent person (star to alemande,
> courtesy turn to star) suggests a wrist star, while moves where the contact
> is across (star old neighbors to star with new, ladies start star then
> gents join in) suggest the hands across. In those cases, I'll explicitly
> suggest one version in the walk through.
>
> Tim Klein
> Knoxville, TN
>
> --
> *From:* Dave Casserly via Callers 
> *To:* John Sweeney 
> *Cc:* "callers@lists.sharedweight.net" 
> *Sent:* Monday, October 10, 2016 8:37 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Callers] Wrist-Lock Stars
>
> Jeff Kaufman wrote a paper on regional variations in contra dance.  Here's 
> what
> he found
> 
> for wrist-grip stars (page 31 of the link).  Basically, they're common
> everywhere in the US except in some parts of the South.  This is based on
> data from ten or more years ago, so I'm not sure if that's still true.  I
> would not be surprised if it isn't-- there's enough cross-contamination
> that wrist-grips could have taken over even in the South.  We do have
> people from Georgia and North Carolina on the list; hopefully they'll chime
> in.
>
> -Dave
> Washington, DC
>
> On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 4:31 AM, John Sweeney via Callers <
> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> I have been to contra dances and festivals all over America and
> everywhere I have danced everyone automatically uses a wrist-lock star
> (unless the caller has specified hands-across because of the subsequent
> choreography).
>
> But I am constantly challenged in England by people claiming that
> wrist-lock stars are not the standard in America.
>
> When I go to somewhere like The Flurry and see 600 people from all
> over the country all doing wrist-locks it seems to me that it must be the
> standard way of doing things.
>
> And obviously it has been common in America for a long time; this
> video is from 1964 in Northern Vermont and shows wrist-lock stars:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=pZubTju7g_s
> 
>
> So, are there still significant communities that don't use
> wrist-locks?
>
> Is the wrist-lock the de facto standard?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Happy dancing,
>John
>
> John Sweeney, Dancer, England   j...@modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802
> 940 574
> http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive Events & DVDs
> http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent
>
>
>
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>
>
>
>
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> (cell) 781 258-2761
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Re: [Callers] On Balances, Box circulates, Allemandes, Circles & Timing

[Chet Gray via Callers]

Thanks for your commentary, Erik.

In regards to the direction of balances before allemandes, I agree for the
most part, but I see one aspect you left out: eye contact. I know not
everybody uses eye contact when balancing towards someone, just as not
everybody uses eye contact in swings or allemandes, but many folks do, and
I know folks who find the eye contact first with one person, then with
another during a right-left (or left-right) balance to be not only very
satisfying, but an important social component of the figure.

I have a tendency to look at dances in a very technical manner, when
calling as well as when dancing or playing. I consciously try to let that
go when it is unnecessary. When deciding on the wording to use for a dance,
I try to consider whether it **really** matters to the momentum to specify
what direction the dancers balance in, or to let them enjoy it as they will
(coming from what may be a last bastion of hands-across-star-by-default, I
do this for star grip as well).

For a different point, if the balance before the allemande is by one hand
only—instead of, say, from a wave—balancing toward-away-from the person
often makes more physical sense than a half-supported forward-back.

In regards to circles, circumference, and styling, I love the points you
make. I enjoy when callers bring up (carefully selected) style notes for
oft-ignored aspects of the dance, such as how radial distance affects speed
(and, therefore timing) in not only circles, but allemandes and
two-hand-turns. My recent crusade (to be a bit hyperbolic) has been
"turning takes time" during down-the-halls. Time will tell how effective it
is at alleviating line drift...

On Sun, Aug 21, 2016 at 4:31 PM, Erik Hoffman via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> There’s been a discussion on balancing forward & back, or right & left, or
> starting the balance left, then right when the balance precedes a left
> allemande. And there’s been a discussion on the timing of circles. Like,
> does a circle left ¾ take 6 or 8 beats? And how long should a circle  left
> 1¼ take?
>
>
>
> *Balances & Direction*
>
>
>
> I think it was Cammy Kaynor who told me he always teaches, “Balance in the
> direction you’re going to go.” This, as stated, is obvious in a box
> circulate: you’re going to go forward after the balance. It’s also obvious
> in a Rory O’More type balance: the balance is right, then left making that
> right slide or twirl gratifying. And it’s the one place where we do teach
> the left then right balance, to make that slide/twirl left so cool. Now,
> consider the allemande:
>
>
>
> The initial motion of an allemande is forward. The connection of arms is
> what turns the forward motion into a circular motion. It is not very
> satisfying to balance right—tension in the left arm—then left—no tension in
> the left arm—then go into an allemande left. But a forward & back creates
> some loss of tension in both arms, then tension in both arms, and you can
> even favor tension in the left arm facilitating a wonderful launch into
> that left allemande. When doing this there is no need to alter our “normal”
> right then left balance. Thus I’ve strongly adopted the above rule: *Balance
> in the Direction you’re going to go*. And remember: the initial direction
> of an allemande—any allemande—is forward. Thus following this rule yields
> satisfying results whether the balance precedes a left or a right
> allemande. I try to bring this up whenever I teach a dance.
>
>
>
> *Circles, Allemandes, & Circumference*
>
>
>
> Back in the old days (when I started dancing in the 1980s), callers could
> and would give styling points. We did dances where, in 8 beats, we might
> allemande left once, dances with an 8 beat 1½ allemande, and dances, like
> Hull’s Victory, where we’d make it twice around in 8 beats. Some of us were
> taught that we could get a good connection and give good weight by varying
> the circumference of the circle we traveled. Keep arms wide, travel a
> larger circle, and once around in 8 beats feels great! Pull in close, and
> you can make it around twice in 8 beats.
>
>
>
> At times there has been discussion about how a circle left ¾, swing
> someone is a 6, then 10 beat set of figures. I think of it as 8 & 8, but
> let dancers do whatever they want. Then we have a circle left ¾, ring
> balance, California twirl. The timing of this is definitely 8, 4, 4.
>
>
>
> It is easy to have a good connection, give good weight in a circle ¾, and
> make it last 6 or 8 beats by expanding or contracting the circle. Aware
> dancers will adjust to make the move fit the timing of the dance. Circle
> left ¾ into a balance: make the circle bigger so the path is a bit longer.
> Want that extra two beats of swing? Contract the circle, and get there
> early…
>
>
>
> I do agree that a circle left 1¼ in 8 beats does not work well. So, make
> the circle a bit bigger and turn it into a zesty 12 beats.
>
>
>
> Erik Hoffman
>
> Oakland, CA

Re: [Callers] videos of rolling starts / musical walk thrus

[Chet Gray via Callers]

Gallimaufry at Sandywoods (I don't know the caller):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqhxqdRsuSs . The drone of a (giant)
hurdy-gurdy lends itself well to a rolling start.

I recall seeing one of Nils Fredland and Elixir, but I haven't been able to
find it again.

Any others out there? This is something I have been keeping an eye out for,
as well.

On Mon, Apr 4, 2016 at 8:27 AM, Tepfer, Seth via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Are there any videos out there of band/callers doing rolling starts or
> musical walk thrus?
>
>
> Seth Tepfer
> Director of Administrative Computing
> Oxford College
> 770-784-8487
> seth.tep...@emory.edu
>
> Use AskIT for fastest response: Oxford.emory.edu/AskIT
> 
>
>
> 
>
>>
>>
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[Callers] Organizing open calling

[Chet Gray via Callers]

Hello, all,

After losing monthly open-calling evenings to venue schedule conflicts last
year, the local contra group where I live (Louisville, KY) are
re-implementing them on 5th-week dances (so, about four or so times a
year). I am "organizing caller" for the first of these, next Monday, and
I'm wondering if any of y'all have advice on coordinating an evening of
open-calling.

The extent of organization for our previous open-calling dances had been,
essentially, callers put their name on a list and everyone hopes it works
out, and, while this was usually serendipitous fun, it often led to
long-running dances (both individually and for the evening overall) and
less-than-enjoyable experiences for newer dancers. When our board was
discussing re-starting open calling, I had recently been at the Jan Jam
(Champaign/Urbana, IL) after party, where Lauren Peckman had coordinated
open calling, and where I'd had the best open-calling experience—as both a
dancer and a caller—I'd ever encountered. I suggested to our board that,
this time around, the evenings each have an "organizing caller" to help
ensure overall program flow, coordinate callers/dances with an eye to
complexity/energy/time, incorporate and assist novice callers, wrangle
callers if need be for time limits, fill in gaps in the program, have
back-pocket dances at the ready, etc.

Lo, they asked me to take a go at coordinating. Suggest a change, be the
change, I suppose. ^_^

The open calling has been announced at our weekly dances leading up, and
tonight (a week before) I'll be asking (but not requiring) prospective
callers to talk to me to help me get an idea for how I can best help the
evening flow.

Any suggestions/anecdotes/warnings from my more-experienced fellows would
be greatly appreciated.

— Chet Gray