Re: [Callers] Leading, consent in embellishments

[Jacob or Nancy Bloom via Callers]

One thing is missing from this discussion, and that is a recognition that
some embellishments occur between dancers who are dancing the same role.
For example, if the dance calls for two gents or two ladies to allemande
left once around, one those two dancers might start leading an allemande
twice around instead of once around.  The principles of mutual consent and
of being alert to signals from the other dancer apply in this case as well.

Jacob

On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 12:55 PM, Ron Blechner via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Thanks, Jack.
>
> I think we, as callers, ought to acknowledge there are 2 camps of dancers,
> believing either:
>
> 1. Gents/Larks role is implicitly "led", and ladies/Ravens role is
> implicitly "follow" (along with all of the good comments about consent,
> such as Maia's)
>
> 2. Contra is implicitly not lead/follow, and any initiating can be done
> from either role.
>
> Either way to dance can be valid. Because both are valid, then we cannot
> assume either is default. Thus, technically both viewpoints are wrong.
> Contra is not *implicitly* one or the other. And in fact, I dance both
> styles, depending on partner. Sometimes, I feel like one style and the very
> next dance I might feel like the other. Options!
>
> Neither viewpoint is universal, nor is either rare. Thus, if we don't
> acknowledge that these both exist, we are doing a huge disservice by
> denying dancers to dance the way they want to dance.
>
> Thus, as callers, the view we should treat lead/follow are *style*
> choices. And while some areas may have dominant styles, it's not right to
> stifle either. Thus I have several practical recommendations:
>
> 1. Refer to it as style choice.
> 2. Get to know what your dance partners' preference is. Don't presume one
> or the other.
> 3. Lead/Follow are not appropriate role terms, because they dismiss people
> whose style is not that.
> 4. Teach leading tips for both roles. Like, you have a long lines, and
> then a mad robin or gents/larks allemande left? The ladies/Ravens are
> leading the move by easing the gents/Larks into those moves.
>
> In dance,
> Ron Blechner
>

-- 
jandnbl...@gmail.com
http://jacobbloom.net/
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https://www.youcaring.com/arlington-food-pantry-621657
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Re: [Callers] Leading, consent in embellishments

[John Sweeney via Callers]

My belief:

 

For the actual dance there is only one Leader: that is the caller.

 

All the dancers are Followers, following the caller’s Lead.

 

Any suggestion that one role has a leading responsibility is misleading and 
does disservice to all the dancers in the other role.

 

Historically this was different.  The Men led the Ladies down the set.  The Men 
swung the Ladies.  We try to avoid terminology like that these days.  I don’t 
think we should go backwards.

 

However, within the dance, when a flourish or embellishment takes place, then 
Lead/Follow happens briefly and dynamically just for that couple for that 
embellishment.

 

That is my feeling.

 

Happy dancing,  

   John   



John Sweeney, Dancer, England   j...@modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802 940 
574  

http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive Events & DVDs 
   

http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent   
   

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Re: [Callers] Leading, consent in embellishments

[Ron Blechner via Callers]

Thanks, Jack.

I think we, as callers, ought to acknowledge there are 2 camps of dancers,
believing either:

1. Gents/Larks role is implicitly "led", and ladies/Ravens role is
implicitly "follow" (along with all of the good comments about consent,
such as Maia's)

2. Contra is implicitly not lead/follow, and any initiating can be done
from either role.

Either way to dance can be valid. Because both are valid, then we cannot
assume either is default. Thus, technically both viewpoints are wrong.
Contra is not *implicitly* one or the other. And in fact, I dance both
styles, depending on partner. Sometimes, I feel like one style and the very
next dance I might feel like the other. Options!

Neither viewpoint is universal, nor is either rare. Thus, if we don't
acknowledge that these both exist, we are doing a huge disservice by
denying dancers to dance the way they want to dance.

Thus, as callers, the view we should treat lead/follow are *style* choices.
And while some areas may have dominant styles, it's not right to stifle
either. Thus I have several practical recommendations:

1. Refer to it as style choice.
2. Get to know what your dance partners' preference is. Don't presume one
or the other.
3. Lead/Follow are not appropriate role terms, because they dismiss people
whose style is not that.
4. Teach leading tips for both roles. Like, you have a long lines, and then
a mad robin or gents/larks allemande left? The ladies/Ravens are leading
the move by easing the gents/Larks into those moves.

In dance,
Ron Blechner


On Mon, Mar 12, 2018, 10:09 AM Jack Mitchell via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> My friend Ron Blechner wrote a wonderful piece
> 
>  a
> few years ago about "lead" and "follow" as being how one can dance
> whichever role in contra you are dancing.  I commend it to your attention.
> It's tangentially related, but that's not really what you were asking
> about.
>
> A few thoughts on that:
>
> Any lead *offered *from one dancer to another should be just that -- an
> offer -- and not a command.  It shouldn't be so forceful that it can't be
> refused.  Additionally, the person leading the flourish should be ready for
> the person to refuse (or not to respond) and be ready to continue with
> whatever courtesy turn  or completion of a swing would have normally been
> expected.
>
> I believe that the response to any lead can be one of three (or possibly
> more) response: "Yes!", "No!" and "What was that??!" and that if you get
> either of the latter two responses those should be taken as a "no" and the
> one leading that move should continue on with whatever the default version
> of that move might be.
>
> So, how do you ask that "question"?
>
>- You can just ask verbally.  A long time dancer in our local
>community will, when he encounters me in the line dancing the lady's /
>right side role, ask me "Twirling today?"  And we've been dancing in the
>same community for approaching 20 years now.  I have had others ask as we
>start swinging if I am ok being dipped.  (The answer is almost always yes,
>but occasionally it's not, and it only takes a second.)
>- A lot of swing exits / flourishes, can be "pre-led".  There is some
>part of the lead that you can start just a couple of counts before you
>would actually do it.  This can be a way of asking that question.  It also
>allows your partner to be ready to change which direction they're going,
>and generally to use much less force in the lead.  A few examples
>Starting to bring the joined hands in a swing up just a bit a few counts
>before the twirl would happen, or bringing the "gent's" left hand to the
>"lady's" shoulder, and then using very light pressure on the back of the
>"lady's" left shoulder and the front of her right to cue the twirl out of
>the swing.
>- We will frequently say in the newcomers lesson that a sign of an
>offered twirl is for the twirling person's partner to lift their joined
>hands (either the "pointy end" hands in a swing or the left hand in a
>courtesy turn, and that if one is not desiring a twirl at that particular
>moment, that one should pull that hand back down.  To that I would just add
>that as the person leading the twirl raises the appropriate hand, no
>reaction / limp arm probably is best to take as a "No" or at least as a
>"What was that??" and move along.  If it's your partner, you can always
>talk about the various flourishes and try again.
>
> So I suppose what it mostly comes down to is:
>
>1. Many leads should be able to be able to be refused / ignored
>2. If you're dancing with someone you don't know, and you want to lead
>something that is difficult to do in a refusable way (dips come to mind),
>ask.
>
>
>- Even if you encounter someone you do know if you don't have time to

Re: [Callers] Leading, consent in embellishments

[Jack Mitchell via Callers]

My friend Ron Blechner wrote a wonderful piece

a
few years ago about "lead" and "follow" as being how one can dance
whichever role in contra you are dancing.  I commend it to your attention.
It's tangentially related, but that's not really what you were asking
about.

A few thoughts on that:

Any lead *offered *from one dancer to another should be just that -- an
offer -- and not a command.  It shouldn't be so forceful that it can't be
refused.  Additionally, the person leading the flourish should be ready for
the person to refuse (or not to respond) and be ready to continue with
whatever courtesy turn  or completion of a swing would have normally been
expected.

I believe that the response to any lead can be one of three (or possibly
more) response: "Yes!", "No!" and "What was that??!" and that if you get
either of the latter two responses those should be taken as a "no" and the
one leading that move should continue on with whatever the default version
of that move might be.

So, how do you ask that "question"?

   - You can just ask verbally.  A long time dancer in our local community
   will, when he encounters me in the line dancing the lady's / right side
   role, ask me "Twirling today?"  And we've been dancing in the same
   community for approaching 20 years now.  I have had others ask as we start
   swinging if I am ok being dipped.  (The answer is almost always yes, but
   occasionally it's not, and it only takes a second.)
   - A lot of swing exits / flourishes, can be "pre-led".  There is some
   part of the lead that you can start just a couple of counts before you
   would actually do it.  This can be a way of asking that question.  It also
   allows your partner to be ready to change which direction they're going,
   and generally to use much less force in the lead.  A few examples
   Starting to bring the joined hands in a swing up just a bit a few counts
   before the twirl would happen, or bringing the "gent's" left hand to the
   "lady's" shoulder, and then using very light pressure on the back of the
   "lady's" left shoulder and the front of her right to cue the twirl out of
   the swing.
   - We will frequently say in the newcomers lesson that a sign of an
   offered twirl is for the twirling person's partner to lift their joined
   hands (either the "pointy end" hands in a swing or the left hand in a
   courtesy turn, and that if one is not desiring a twirl at that particular
   moment, that one should pull that hand back down.  To that I would just add
   that as the person leading the twirl raises the appropriate hand, no
   reaction / limp arm probably is best to take as a "No" or at least as a
   "What was that??" and move along.  If it's your partner, you can always
   talk about the various flourishes and try again.

So I suppose what it mostly comes down to is:

   1. Many leads should be able to be able to be refused / ignored
   2. If you're dancing with someone you don't know, and you want to lead
   something that is difficult to do in a refusable way (dips come to mind),
   ask.


   - Even if you encounter someone you do know if you don't have time to
  ask (and haven't made previous arrangement), try to make sure your leads
  are refusable.  [I'm thinking particularly of the various ways that the
  same role dancer can twirl a neighbor as they pass in a hey, and the time
  on the friday of a dance weekend when someone forced a twirl in
a hay on my
  wife when she had already planted her foot and wasn't ready to be
  twirledmessed up her knee for the rest of the weekend and
that was the
  last dance she did.]


I can give you other examples if you'd like, but this is already getting a
bit rambling.  Hope that some of it is useful!  Let us know how the
workshop goes!

Jack


On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 12:22 AM Jeanette Mill via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Hello
>
> I am devising a workshop for a festival here in Australia, and have long
> been of the opinion that there are no "leaders" in contra dance couples.
> Moves should be executed with mutual consent, especially embellishments
> such as turning under out of a ladies' chain. Conventions such as waltz
> hold swings are really useful here. In Australia, other related dance forms
> use a variety of swing holds, which lead to confusion and interruption of
> flow. I plan to place some emphasis on conventions of holds, such as
> allemande and star holds.
>
> I would value people's opinions on this, as it may ruffle some long-held
> conventions. Any words of wisdom from the gender free dance community would
> be especially welcome.
>
> Also, I believe that if dancers are to enjoy embellishments, they must be
> by mutual consent. This is so difficult to establish in a microsecond. I
> would value any thoughts on how to advise reaching this consent in the
> context of a 

Re: [Callers] Leading, consent in embellishments

[John Sweeney via Callers]

Angela’s point about managing your weight is really important.

 

I hate the term “give weight”!

 

I really don’t want your weight, in swings or allemandes or anything else.

 

I am happy, though, to counterbalance your mass in order to stop centrifugal 
force pulling us apart.  It is dancing, not wrestling!

 

Good connection is all you need.

 

Leaning backwards or sideways actually slows you down (check your physics) – 
all it does is tire your partner out as they try to stop you falling over.

 

Strength and lack of weight control can also mess up flourishes.

 

A strong lead is about clarity, not strength.  I often demonstrate by getting 
someone to blow on my hand – as their breath hits my hand I spin – I don’t need 
their help to spin – I just need to know that they want me to spin.  (Though, 
with two good dancers and good technique, a little help can generate multiple 
spins.)

 

Another good rule is: whenever your hand gets up to eye-level relax all your 
arm muscles – tension in moves like that slows the move down or even prevents 
it working.

 

Happy dancing,  

   John   



John Sweeney, Dancer, England   j...@modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802 940 
574  

http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive Events & DVDs 
   

http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent 

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Re: [Callers] Leading, consent in embellishments

[Read Weaver via Callers]

I don’t see the advantage of using the terms lead & follow here, and I do see 
disadvantages. There are dance styles that have true leading and following 
(most ballroom, swing, etc.), and some new-to-contra people already know those 
true-leading/following dance styles, and will know that the leader is the man 
(or perhaps the left/lark/jet) and the follower is the woman (perhaps 
right/raven/ruby). This is not only at odds with the idea that either role can 
initiate a flourish (and the other can accept or decline it), but can also 
easily lead to an idea that throughout the entire dance there’s one leader and 
one follower per couple. (Not that that belief is limited to newbies, but at 
least where I dance it’s decreasing, and I don’t want to be encouraging it.)

Yes, teach initiating flourishes, from either side, and yes teach accepting and 
declining, from either side. Don’t call it leading and following—those words 
already mean something else.

Read Weaver
Jamaica Plain, MA
http://lcfd.org

> On Mar 11, 2018, at 12:39 PM, Maia McCormick via Callers 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Jeanette,
> 
> Exciting workshop! I'm glad to see this discussed!
> 
> So if I'm understanding you correctly, you seem to be contrasting the idea of 
> a "leader" with the fact that moves must be "executed with mutual consent", 
> which I find interesting. For me, those ideas are not at all at odds. I see 
> the "leader" as the person who initiates, or offers, the embellishment, and 
> the "follower" as then deciding to execute it or not. To put it another way: 
> in my opinion, all embellishments are composed of an offer (the "lead") and 
> either an acceptance or declination. In this framework, designating one 
> person the "leader" is not at odds with consensual twirling--the "follower" 
> has agency every step of the way!--and it can be helpful to establish "right 
> of way" in twirling.*
> 
> I teach a workshop on dance floor communication, and I am happy to talk more 
> if you like! But my initial suggestion for a workshop activity/focus is: 
> break down non-verbal communication of flourishes. What does an offer 
> look/feel like? An acceptance? A declination? Have people practice physically 
> declining flourishes: when the lead lifts an arm to offer a twirl, the follow 
> gently tugs down, rather than following that upward twirly momentum. (Note 
> that the twirlee can also do the offering -- e.g. I am a lady doing a chain, 
> and I get to the gent and lift my arm up over my head to indicate that I want 
> to twirl. But the gent still gets to accept or decline! Maybe they have a bad 
> shoulder and can't lift their arm up that far, etc. So that's an idea to put 
> in people's heads as well.)
> 
> Many follows aren't aware that they're allowed to decline flourishes, and 
> many leads have no idea what a declination feels like! So this is a GREAT 
> thing to practice. Emphasize to folks that they can decline a twirl for any 
> reason; and that if someone declines your twirl, not to take it personally. 
> (Cuz boyyy I have seen some men get huffy when I don't want to twirl for 
> them.) And then PRACTICE so people get really aware of what signals to 
> physically "listen" for. (In my workshop I had the crowd do a dance** with 
> lots of flourish opportunities for both roles, and encouraged participants to 
> play with whether they offered flourishes or not, whether they accepted or 
> declined, and to really listen for their partner's signals.)
> 
> Hope some of that was helpful! Like I said, I have lots of ideas on this 
> topic and am happy to talk further. Thanks for teaching this, and best of 
> luck -- let us know how it goes!
> 
> Cheers,
> Maia
> 
> * As John mentioned, twirls etc. can be initiated by either role, and I've 
> certainly danced those dances where both roles are twirling all over the 
> place! They're delightful, but I also find them super confusing because I 
> never know if I should be in "initiate" or "respond" mode -- I appreciate 
> designating one person the "leader", i.e. the person who initiates flourishes 
> (and then switching around the "leader" if need be).
> 
> ** Apogee  by Chris 
> Page, though in retrospect I might have picked something easier... maybe PB 
>  by Bill Olson? If you 
> don't have a crowd that's up for a gent's chain, though, most any dance with 
> a lot of flourish opportunities (chains, balance and swing's, lines down the 
> hall, etc.) will do.
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Re: [Callers] Leading, consent in embellishments

[Angela DeCarlis via Callers]

Hello Jeanette!

So excited about this topic. I help run a genderfree dance in Boston, and
love what happens to a community with genderfree terminology*.

Firstly, I agree with everything Maia has already said, particularly their
point about finding it confusing if there isn't a clearly delegated
"leader" at a given moment. Even though contra doesn't need to be a
lead/followed dance in the conventional sense, it remains true that several
of the most common moves are asymmetric (like swings or chains), so some
leading and following is simply par for the course. Further, it's
unavoidable that many dancers will spice up their dancing with strictly
lead and followed flourishes.

My favorite way of indicating role is via palm direction; if you're in the
traditionally "gent" role, your palms face up; "ladies" palms face down.
This is preferable to me over visual signifiers like arm bands or neck
ties, because you can more easily switch roles with your partner mid-dance.

As a woman-type person who enjoys being in charge (it's like I'm a caller
or something), the opportunity to lead (or follow!) in contra dance is
important to me. I totally agree with Maia's thoughts on teaching consent,
and the mechanisms by which a "lead" or "followed" move occur. I would
further encourage you to teach *all *dancers to better hold their own
weight; I've found that most women who have traditionally danced in the
Lady's role take for granted the upper body strength of a traditional male
gent, such that if I'm leading, I find myself hurting from supporting their
weight during swings. It's worthwhile to call back to what John has already
said about physics, but with the important caveat that body
size/weight/height are the more important factor, not gender.

In short, I would encourage you to teach not only symmetric swing holds
like you mentioned, but also teach techniques by which lead/followed
dancing may be more comfortable and safe for everyone involved, regardless
of whether their gender identity correlates to their chosen dance role.
These methods include the accept/decline system Maia discussed, the issue
of shared weight, the use of palm direction to indicate role intention, and
the use of genderfree or inclusive language**.

Good luck!

Angela

*Our community was already relatively young, queer, and prone to role
switching. After officially switching to genderfree terminology, however
(we use Larks and Ravens), the number of long-time and novice dancers alike
trying new things or dancing in unfamiliar roles had increased drastically!
Not only do I firmly believe that this means our dancers are more skilled
(they're more equipped to understand and deal with confusion in the line,
on the whole), but I also believe that our community is stronger, since
partnering isn't limited.

**By "inclusive language," I mean saying things outright like, "We use the
terms Gents and Ladies to differentiate between dance roles, but those
traditional trends ate totally non-binding! Please feel free to dance in
either role at any time, and see which one you like better. Some days I
like dancing in both roles; other times I want to dance just in one role or
the other!" (Side bar: when I'm teaching a beginners' lesson, I make a
point to model this behavior; sometimes I'll deliberately ask a novice of
the same gender presentation as me to demo a swing; sometimes I'll
deliberately call upon a gender-queer community member to model the "which
role do you prefer?" conversation, and follow through by using their
pronouns as I describe what we're doing to the beginners, i.e., "They are
in the Raven's role, I am dancing as a Lark" etc).


On Sun, Mar 11, 2018, 12:40 PM Maia McCormick via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Hi Jeanette,
>
> Exciting workshop! I'm glad to see this discussed!
>
> So if I'm understanding you correctly, you seem to be contrasting the idea
> of a "leader" with the fact that moves must be "executed with mutual
> consent", which I find interesting. For me, those ideas are not at all at
> odds. I see the "leader" as the person who initiates, or *offers*, the
> embellishment, and the "follower" as then deciding to execute it or not. To
> put it another way: in my opinion, *all embellishments are composed of an
> offer (the "lead") and either an acceptance or declination*. In this
> framework, designating one person the "leader" is *not* at odds with
> consensual twirling--the "follower" has agency every step of the way!--and
> it can be helpful to establish "right of way" in twirling.*
>
> I teach a workshop on dance floor communication, and I am happy to talk
> more if you like! But my initial suggestion for a workshop activity/focus
> is: *break down non-verbal communication of flourishes*. What does an
> offer look/feel like? An acceptance? A declination? Have people practice
> physically declining flourishes: when the lead lifts an arm to offer a
> twirl, the follow gently tugs down, rather than following 

Re: [Callers] Leading, consent in embellishments

[Maia McCormick via Callers]

Hi Jeanette,

Exciting workshop! I'm glad to see this discussed!

So if I'm understanding you correctly, you seem to be contrasting the idea
of a "leader" with the fact that moves must be "executed with mutual
consent", which I find interesting. For me, those ideas are not at all at
odds. I see the "leader" as the person who initiates, or *offers*, the
embellishment, and the "follower" as then deciding to execute it or not. To
put it another way: in my opinion, *all embellishments are composed of an
offer (the "lead") and either an acceptance or declination*. In this
framework, designating one person the "leader" is *not* at odds with
consensual twirling--the "follower" has agency every step of the way!--and
it can be helpful to establish "right of way" in twirling.*

I teach a workshop on dance floor communication, and I am happy to talk
more if you like! But my initial suggestion for a workshop activity/focus
is: *break down non-verbal communication of flourishes*. What does an offer
look/feel like? An acceptance? A declination? Have people practice
physically declining flourishes: when the lead lifts an arm to offer a
twirl, the follow gently tugs down, rather than following that upward
twirly momentum. (Note that the twirlee can also do the offering -- e.g. I
am a lady doing a chain, and I get to the gent and lift my arm up over my
head to indicate that I want to twirl. But the gent still gets to accept or
decline! Maybe they have a bad shoulder and can't lift their arm up that
far, etc. So that's an idea to put in people's heads as well.)

Many follows aren't aware that they're *allowed* to decline flourishes, and
many leads have no idea what a declination feels like! So this is a GREAT
thing to practice. Emphasize to folks that they can decline a twirl for any
reason; and that if someone declines your twirl, not to take it personally.
(Cuz boyyy I have seen some men get huffy when I don't want to twirl for
them.) And then PRACTICE so people get really aware of what signals to
physically "listen" for. (In my workshop I had the crowd do a dance** with
lots of flourish opportunities for both roles, and encouraged participants
to play with whether they offered flourishes or not, whether they accepted
or declined, and to really listen for their partner's signals.)

Hope some of that was helpful! Like I said, I have lots of ideas on this
topic and am happy to talk further. Thanks for teaching this, and best of
luck -- let us know how it goes!

Cheers,
Maia

* As John mentioned, twirls etc. can be initiated by either role, and I've
certainly danced those dances where both roles are twirling all over the
place! They're delightful, but I also find them super confusing because I
never know if I should be in "initiate" or "respond" mode -- I appreciate
designating one person the "leader", i.e. the person who initiates
flourishes (and then switching around the "leader" if need be).

** Apogee  by Chris
Page, though in retrospect I might have picked something easier... maybe
PB  by Bill Olson?
If you don't have a crowd that's up for a gent's chain, though, most any
dance with a lot of flourish opportunities (chains, balance and swing's,
lines down the hall, etc.) will do.

On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 12:21 AM, Jeanette Mill via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Hello
>
> I am devising a workshop for a festival here in Australia, and have long
> been of the opinion that there are no "leaders" in contra dance couples.
> Moves should be executed with mutual consent, especially embellishments
> such as turning under out of a ladies' chain. Conventions such as waltz
> hold swings are really useful here. In Australia, other related dance forms
> use a variety of swing holds, which lead to confusion and interruption of
> flow. I plan to place some emphasis on conventions of holds, such as
> allemande and star holds.
>
> I would value people's opinions on this, as it may ruffle some long-held
> conventions. Any words of wisdom from the gender free dance community would
> be especially welcome.
>
> Also, I believe that if dancers are to enjoy embellishments, they must be
> by mutual consent. This is so difficult to establish in a microsecond. I
> would value any thoughts on how to advise reaching this consent in the
> context of a contra dance.
>
> Looking forward to your thoughts
>
> cheers
> Jeanette
>
> Jeanette Mill
>
> Contra dance caller, musician, workshop facilitator
>
> Canberra, Australia
>
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Re: [Callers] Leading, consent in embellishments

[Tom Hinds via Callers]

see my comments sprinkled...
On Mar 6, 2018, at 12:21 AM, Jeanette Mill via Callers wrote:


Hello

I am devising a workshop for a festival here in Australia, and  
have long been of the opinion that there are no "leaders" in  
contra dance couples.



That's a great issue to discuss.  My thought is that having a  
really fun time requires someone to take the initiative.  Of course  
it's quite possible that dancing in Australia is different than  
dancing here in the states.



Moves should be executed with mutual consent, especially  
embellishments such as turning under out of a ladies' chain.  
Conventions such as waltz hold swings are really useful here. In  
Australia, other related dance forms use a variety of swing holds,  
which lead to confusion and interruption of flow. I plan to place  
some emphasis on conventions of holds, such as allemande and star  
holds.
Would it depend on the situation?  If there are new dancers would  
you expect or appreciate leading from a more experienced dancer?  I  
would say skill level would play a part in this issue even between  
people who are not beginners.


I would value people's opinions on this, as it may ruffle some  
long-held conventions. Any words of wisdom from the gender free  
dance community would be especially welcome.



Also, I believe that if dancers are to enjoy embellishments, they  
must be by mutual consent. This is so difficult to establish in a  
microsecond. I would value any thoughts on how to advise reaching  
this consent in the context of a contra dance.
I know in my small town everyone knows everyone and it's easy to  
adjust your style when it comes to embellishments.  When you meet  
someone in line you know what to expect unless it's a new face.


Would that be very different at a large dance or say at a festival  
where people from other areas attend?


Looking forward to your thoughts
My limited personal experience is that I'm the leader because I'm  
the stronger dancer.


If I verbally suggest that my partner "twirl me" they will, but  
it's usually in the wrong direction or at the wrong time.  There  
are good female leaders out there, but not here in my town.  So how  
about a workshop where people are allowed or encouraged to try the  
role they may not be the most comfortable with?


cheers
Jeanette

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Re: [Callers] Leading, consent in embellishments

[John Sweeney via Callers]

e commonly led by the man.  But that is not a rule - the lady can 
initiate a twirl of herself or her man, or both if she has good leading 
technique and he has good following technique.

 

 

7) Most dancers would benefit from good teaching on this subject, but sadly 
there is very little teaching provided

 

As I have said, elements such as leading, following and twirling work well if 
the dancers have developed good technique.  But where will they learn it in the 
contra world?  I teach workshops on the subject, but that seems to be quite 
rare.  I also occasionally teach flourishes at our regular weekly dances.  
Sometimes it only needs a caller to drop in a few good one-liners into an 
evening's calling to pass along a little bit of knowledge.  If callers don't do 
it who will?

 

Hmmm... I have probably rambled on for too long now.  I hope some of you find 
some of that useful.  If you want to hear me talk on the subject for nearly two 
hours please contact me about getting a cheap copy of my Toolkit DVD: 
http://www.modernjive.com/tmjt.html :-)

 

Happy dancing,  

   John   



John Sweeney, Dancer, England   j...@modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802 940 
574  

http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive Events & DVDs 
   

http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent   
   

 

From: Jeanette Mill <jeanette_m...@yahoo.com.au> 
Sent: 06 March 2018 05:21
To: Callers List <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
Subject: [Callers] Leading, consent in embellishments

 

Hello

 

I am devising a workshop for a festival here in Australia, and have long been 
of the opinion that there are no "leaders" in contra dance couples. Moves 
should be executed with mutual consent, especially embellishments such as 
turning under out of a ladies' chain. Conventions such as waltz hold swings are 
really useful here. In Australia, other related dance forms use a variety of 
swing holds, which lead to confusion and interruption of flow. I plan to place 
some emphasis on conventions of holds, such as allemande and star holds.

 

I would value people's opinions on this, as it may ruffle some long-held 
conventions. Any words of wisdom from the gender free dance community would be 
especially welcome. 

 

Also, I believe that if dancers are to enjoy embellishments, they must be by 
mutual consent. This is so difficult to establish in a microsecond. I would 
value any thoughts on how to advise reaching this consent in the context of a 
contra dance.

 

Looking forward to your thoughts

 

cheers

Jeanette

 

Jeanette Mill

Contra dance caller, musician, workshop facilitator

Canberra, Australia

Phone: +61 (0)449 686 077

Email: jeanette_m...@yahoo.com.au <mailto:jeanette_m...@yahoo.com.au> 

Skype: jeanette.mill

 

"The piano - 88 little mistakes waiting to happen" Kate Barnes

 

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[Callers] Leading, consent in embellishments

[Jeanette Mill via Callers]

Hello
I am devising a workshop for a festival here in Australia, and have long been 
of the opinion that there are no "leaders" in contra dance couples. Moves 
should be executed with mutual consent, especially embellishments such as 
turning under out of a ladies' chain. Conventions such as waltz hold swings are 
really useful here. In Australia, other related dance forms use a variety of 
swing holds, which lead to confusion and interruption of flow. I plan to place 
some emphasis on conventions of holds, such as allemande and star holds.
I would value people's opinions on this, as it may ruffle some long-held 
conventions. Any words of wisdom from the gender free dance community would be 
especially welcome. 
Also, I believe that if dancers are to enjoy embellishments, they must be by 
mutual consent. This is so difficult to establish in a microsecond. I would 
value any thoughts on how to advise reaching this consent in the context of a 
contra dance.
Looking forward to your thoughts
cheersJeanette

Jeanette Mill
 
Contra dance caller, musician, workshop facilitator

Canberra, Australia

Phone: +61 (0)449 686 077
 
Email: jeanette_m...@yahoo.com.au
 
Skype: jeanette.mill
 
  
 
"The piano - 88 little mistakes waiting to happen"Kate Barnes
 
  
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