Re: [Callers] On Balances, Box circulates, Allemandes, Circles & Timing

[Alan Winston via Callers]

On 8/23/16 8:10 PM, Don Veino via Callers wrote:
Following this logic, where an on-time arrival is essential out of a 
star it would be best to make it hands-across (H-A). In a H-A star, 
folks can use a similar arm angle adjustment to vary the star 
circumference (and resulting speed). Due to the configuration, there's 
less opportunity to gently* influence star speed with the pack 
saddle/hand-on-wrist form.


BTW, in dances featuring a star where a pair drop out I mention 
there's no need to shove your opposite away at disengagement - 
centrifugal force will gently take care of it once you let go of them. 
This is a curious bit which only seems to happen in this case - I've 
never received a parting shove when an "everybody" H-A star breaks up, 
but there's always someone in the line doing it in the drop out variant.


*
I find that a lot - maybe most - gents in the SF Bay Area will do a push 
off on dropping out of a hands-across star, and since I'm expecting it I 
kind of like it and offer a rigid-enough arm to be pushed off from.


On the other hand, it's a very small minority of gents who'll push off 
from a star promenade, and I wish it were more.  (There's a lot of 'em 
who'll just drop the allemande hand once they've picked up the lady 
they're promenading with, and then the figure is really, really 
unsatisfying.)


-- Alan

Re: [Callers] On Balances, Box circulates, Allemandes, Circles & Timing

[Don Veino via Callers]

Following this logic, where an on-time arrival is essential out of a star
it would be best to make it hands-across (H-A). In a H-A star, folks can
use a similar arm angle adjustment to vary the star circumference (and
resulting speed). Due to the configuration, there's less opportunity to
gently* influence star speed with the pack saddle/hand-on-wrist form.

BTW, in dances featuring a star where a pair drop out I mention there's no
need to shove your opposite away at disengagement - centrifugal force will
gently take care of it once you let go of them. This is a curious bit which
only seems to happen in this case - I've never received a parting shove
when an "everybody" H-A star breaks up, but there's always someone in the
line doing it in the drop out variant.

*I've witnessed some dancers "expediting" those ahead in a star using their
free palm applied to a shoulder or back. :(

On Sun, Aug 21, 2016 at 4:31 PM, Erik Hoffman via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> It is easy to have a good connection, give good weight in a circle ¾, and
> make it last 6 or 8 beats by expanding or contracting the circle. Aware
> dancers will adjust to make the move fit the timing of the dance. Circle
> left ¾ into a balance: make the circle bigger so the path is a bit longer.
> Want that extra two beats of swing? Contract the circle, and get there
> early…

Re: [Callers] On Balances, Box circulates, Allemandes, Circles & Timing

[Read Weaver via Callers]

I’d say the place where the timing on circle 3/4 is crucial is when it’s circle 
3/4 and pass through to the next. Either this move is being called more 
frequently or it’s being done (make that “done”) as 8+0 more frequently than 
was true up until a few years ago, because as a dancer I run in to bad timing 
with it a lot more than I used to. I’d urge callers to either avoid dances that 
end with this, or explicitly teach it as 6+2 in the walk through, and again 
while calling as needed. It invariably leads to many many instances of starting 
the next move (with a new couple) late, either everyone arriving late or some 
arriving late and some on time.

Read Weaver
Jamaica Plain, MA
http://lcfd.org

> On Aug 21, 2016, at 4:31 PM, Erik Hoffman via Callers 
>  wrote:
> ...
>  Circles, Allemandes, & Circumference
> ...
> At times there has been discussion about how a circle left ¾, swing someone 
> is a 6, then 10 beat set of figures. I think of it as 8 & 8, but let dancers 
> do whatever they want. Then we have a circle left ¾, ring balance, California 
> twirl. The timing of this is definitely 8, 4, 4.
>  
> It is easy to have a good connection, give good weight in a circle ¾, and 
> make it last 6 or 8 beats by expanding or contracting the circle. Aware 
> dancers will adjust to make the move fit the timing of the dance. Circle left 
> ¾ into a balance: make the circle bigger so the path is a bit longer. Want 
> that extra two beats of swing? Contract the circle, and get there early…
>  

Re: [Callers] On Balances, Box circulates, Allemandes, Circles & Timing

[Chet Gray via Callers]

Thanks for your commentary, Erik.

In regards to the direction of balances before allemandes, I agree for the
most part, but I see one aspect you left out: eye contact. I know not
everybody uses eye contact when balancing towards someone, just as not
everybody uses eye contact in swings or allemandes, but many folks do, and
I know folks who find the eye contact first with one person, then with
another during a right-left (or left-right) balance to be not only very
satisfying, but an important social component of the figure.

I have a tendency to look at dances in a very technical manner, when
calling as well as when dancing or playing. I consciously try to let that
go when it is unnecessary. When deciding on the wording to use for a dance,
I try to consider whether it **really** matters to the momentum to specify
what direction the dancers balance in, or to let them enjoy it as they will
(coming from what may be a last bastion of hands-across-star-by-default, I
do this for star grip as well).

For a different point, if the balance before the allemande is by one hand
only—instead of, say, from a wave—balancing toward-away-from the person
often makes more physical sense than a half-supported forward-back.

In regards to circles, circumference, and styling, I love the points you
make. I enjoy when callers bring up (carefully selected) style notes for
oft-ignored aspects of the dance, such as how radial distance affects speed
(and, therefore timing) in not only circles, but allemandes and
two-hand-turns. My recent crusade (to be a bit hyperbolic) has been
"turning takes time" during down-the-halls. Time will tell how effective it
is at alleviating line drift...

On Sun, Aug 21, 2016 at 4:31 PM, Erik Hoffman via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> There’s been a discussion on balancing forward & back, or right & left, or
> starting the balance left, then right when the balance precedes a left
> allemande. And there’s been a discussion on the timing of circles. Like,
> does a circle left ¾ take 6 or 8 beats? And how long should a circle  left
> 1¼ take?
>
>
>
> *Balances & Direction*
>
>
>
> I think it was Cammy Kaynor who told me he always teaches, “Balance in the
> direction you’re going to go.” This, as stated, is obvious in a box
> circulate: you’re going to go forward after the balance. It’s also obvious
> in a Rory O’More type balance: the balance is right, then left making that
> right slide or twirl gratifying. And it’s the one place where we do teach
> the left then right balance, to make that slide/twirl left so cool. Now,
> consider the allemande:
>
>
>
> The initial motion of an allemande is forward. The connection of arms is
> what turns the forward motion into a circular motion. It is not very
> satisfying to balance right—tension in the left arm—then left—no tension in
> the left arm—then go into an allemande left. But a forward & back creates
> some loss of tension in both arms, then tension in both arms, and you can
> even favor tension in the left arm facilitating a wonderful launch into
> that left allemande. When doing this there is no need to alter our “normal”
> right then left balance. Thus I’ve strongly adopted the above rule: *Balance
> in the Direction you’re going to go*. And remember: the initial direction
> of an allemande—any allemande—is forward. Thus following this rule yields
> satisfying results whether the balance precedes a left or a right
> allemande. I try to bring this up whenever I teach a dance.
>
>
>
> *Circles, Allemandes, & Circumference*
>
>
>
> Back in the old days (when I started dancing in the 1980s), callers could
> and would give styling points. We did dances where, in 8 beats, we might
> allemande left once, dances with an 8 beat 1½ allemande, and dances, like
> Hull’s Victory, where we’d make it twice around in 8 beats. Some of us were
> taught that we could get a good connection and give good weight by varying
> the circumference of the circle we traveled. Keep arms wide, travel a
> larger circle, and once around in 8 beats feels great! Pull in close, and
> you can make it around twice in 8 beats.
>
>
>
> At times there has been discussion about how a circle left ¾, swing
> someone is a 6, then 10 beat set of figures. I think of it as 8 & 8, but
> let dancers do whatever they want. Then we have a circle left ¾, ring
> balance, California twirl. The timing of this is definitely 8, 4, 4.
>
>
>
> It is easy to have a good connection, give good weight in a circle ¾, and
> make it last 6 or 8 beats by expanding or contracting the circle. Aware
> dancers will adjust to make the move fit the timing of the dance. Circle
> left ¾ into a balance: make the circle bigger so the path is a bit longer.
> Want that extra two beats of swing? Contract the circle, and get there
> early…
>
>
>
> I do agree that a circle left 1¼ in 8 beats does not work well. So, make
> the circle a bit bigger and turn it into a zesty 12 beats.
>
>
>
> Erik Hoffman
>
> Oakland, CA

[Callers] On Balances, Box circulates, Allemandes, Circles & Timing

[Erik Hoffman via Callers]

There’s been a discussion on balancing forward & back, or right & left, or 
starting the balance left, then right when the balance precedes a left 
allemande. And there’s been a discussion on the timing of circles. Like, does a 
circle left ¾ take 6 or 8 beats? And how long should a circle  left 1¼ take?

Balances & Direction

I think it was Cammy Kaynor who told me he always teaches, “Balance in the 
direction you’re going to go.” This, as stated, is obvious in a box circulate: 
you’re going to go forward after the balance. It’s also obvious in a Rory 
O’More type balance: the balance is right, then left making that right slide or 
twirl gratifying. And it’s the one place where we do teach the left then right 
balance, to make that slide/twirl left so cool. Now, consider the allemande:

The initial motion of an allemande is forward. The connection of arms is what 
turns the forward motion into a circular motion. It is not very satisfying to 
balance right—tension in the left arm—then left—no tension in the left arm—then 
go into an allemande left. But a forward & back creates some loss of tension in 
both arms, then tension in both arms, and you can even favor tension in the 
left arm facilitating a wonderful launch into that left allemande. When doing 
this there is no need to alter our “normal” right then left balance. Thus I’ve 
strongly adopted the above rule: Balance in the Direction you’re going to go. 
And remember: the initial direction of an allemande—any allemande—is forward. 
Thus following this rule yields satisfying results whether the balance precedes 
a left or a right allemande. I try to bring this up whenever I teach a dance.

Circles, Allemandes, & Circumference

Back in the old days (when I started dancing in the 1980s), callers could and 
would give styling points. We did dances where, in 8 beats, we might allemande 
left once, dances with an 8 beat 1½ allemande, and dances, like Hull’s Victory, 
where we’d make it twice around in 8 beats. Some of us were taught that we 
could get a good connection and give good weight by varying the circumference 
of the circle we traveled. Keep arms wide, travel a larger circle, and once 
around in 8 beats feels great! Pull in close, and you can make it around twice 
in 8 beats.

At times there has been discussion about how a circle left ¾, swing someone is 
a 6, then 10 beat set of figures. I think of it as 8 & 8, but let dancers do 
whatever they want. Then we have a circle left ¾, ring balance, California 
twirl. The timing of this is definitely 8, 4, 4.

It is easy to have a good connection, give good weight in a circle ¾, and make 
it last 6 or 8 beats by expanding or contracting the circle. Aware dancers will 
adjust to make the move fit the timing of the dance. Circle left ¾ into a 
balance: make the circle bigger so the path is a bit longer. Want that extra 
two beats of swing? Contract the circle, and get there early…

I do agree that a circle left 1¼ in 8 beats does not work well. So, make the 
circle a bit bigger and turn it into a zesty 12 beats.

Erik Hoffman
Oakland, CA