Re: [Catalyst] Debugging Catalyst with Eclipse
On Tue, Jan 22, 2008 at 2:21 AM, Matt S Trout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Mon, Jan 21, 2008 at 11:22:37AM -0600, Nathan Waddell wrote: >> Matt, >> I guess what I'm trying to express is that - in my opinion - there is >> a learning curve to Catalyst. I think more documentation could ease >> that learning curve and help people get up to speed faster on how to >> write, debug, and use Catalyst apps. > > What -I'm- trying to express is that all the documentation we have so far has > been written by volunteers. > > We know we could do with ten times as much documentation as we have. > > Matt S Trout Need help with your Catalyst or DBIx::Class project? There you go guys: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/new-wiki/gettingstarted/howtos/debugging_catalyst_applications.highlight I managed to get ActiveState Komodo IDE 4.4 to interactively debug Catalyst applications by running the test script: perl -d myapp_test.pl http://mysite.com/troublemaker_url Komodo IDE is a full-blown debugging IDE and supports all you'd want from a debugger: stepping through, over, out of subs; watches; call stack; conditional breakpoints etc. I also wrote on the wiki instructions on how to debug remotely with Komodo IDE. NOTE: apparently it's impossible to debug a live Catalyst app, because Komodo IDE can never pass over a while ( accept( Remote, $daemon ) ) loop in Catalyst::Engine::HTTP. Any idea about how to fix/work around that? Best regards, Dan Dascalescu ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] Debugging Catalyst with Eclipse
On Thu, Jan 17, 2008 at 8:37 AM, Nathan Waddell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Does anyone have experience with using the Eclipse IDE to debug > Catalyst applications? Any updates on this? If so, please update http://www.wikivs.com/wiki/Catalyst_vs_Ruby_on_Rails#Debugging and http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/new-wiki/gettingstarted/howtos/debugging_catalyst_applications. Thanks, Dan Dascalescu ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] Debugging Catalyst with Eclipse
Thanks a ton. Your answer gave me exactly what I needed. cheers N > Hope that's some help. > > cheers > RET ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] Debugging Catalyst with Eclipse
On 24/01/2008, at 3:49 AM, Nathan Waddell wrote:
One thing that I can't seem to find (and maybe I don't know where to
look) is an intermediate overview of how to use the stash in
coordination with templating systems. For example, I know that I can:
Example TT template:
A very basic template.
Here's the variable you passed to this page: [% foo %]
Example catalyst snippet:
my $foo = "bar";
$c->stash->{'foo'} = $foo;
So the resulting template will print the following html:
A very basic template.
Here's the variable you passed to this page: bar
However, the template toolkit also allows for hashes to be passed
to it, like:
my $foo = ( bar => 'Foobar');
Which can then be accessed as [% foo.bar %] - if I'm understanding
it correctly.
How do you pass this hash to catalyst? By deriving a reference?
i.e.
my $foo_ref = \%foo;
$c->stash->{'foo'}= $foo_ref;
If this is so, do you have to worry about dereferencing {foo} if you
need to check its value in the stash with another Catalyst controller?
i.e.
my $foobar_ref = $c->stash->{'foo'};
my $foobar = %{$foobar_ref};
Nathan
Unless I misunderstand your question (and that's certainly not beyond
the realms of possibility...), you should be able to simplify this with:
my $foo = { bar => 'Foobar', ... };
$c->stash->{foo} = $foo;
The template will correctly interpret [ % foo.bar %]
and there should be no reason another controller/action that gets
forwarded to can't retrieve $c->stash->{foo}->{bar}
However, if what you're after is sending the hash back from the
template to the controller (via some href action), then you can
return the hash contents as named parameters:
[% href = c.uri_for($something, foo), which will become a link like /
something?bar=Foobar etc. If that's not what you want, I'd be
inclined to put the hash into session data, since it sounds like
you're trying to persist it, which is what the session is for.
Hope that's some help.
cheers
RET
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Re: [Catalyst] Debugging Catalyst with Eclipse
I'll be sure to pass the message on to my boss. Yeah, there's few good reasons to maintain a private fork... and that line of reasoning is definitely not one of them. On Jan 23, 2008 11:49 AM, Daniel Hulme <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > That's great. Be sure to thank your employer on my behalf (and probably > all of our behalves) for being so supportive. Many places let their > employees have pet projects, because it often produces real value for > the company that it would otherwise miss out through being too > narrow-minded, but I've never worked anywhere that encouraged people to > contribute to open-source projects they use. > > In fact, going the other way, I've worked in one place where they > maintained a private fork of SQLite rather than allow programmers to > submit changes upstream. Needless to say, this piece of stupidity was > quite representative of management attitudes and the codebase as a whole. ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] Debugging Catalyst with Eclipse
On Wed, Jan 23, 2008 at 10:49:03AM -0600, Nathan Waddell wrote: > I'm signing up for the wiki as I write this. If that is the direction > the documentation effort is going, I'm going to concentrate on it. My > employer allows me to dedicate some of my time each week to 'creative > projects unrelated to our core business' and is a big consumer of Open > Source and Free Software - so they support my giving back to OSS/FS. That's great. Be sure to thank your employer on my behalf (and probably all of our behalves) for being so supportive. Many places let their employees have pet projects, because it often produces real value for the company that it would otherwise miss out through being too narrow-minded, but I've never worked anywhere that encouraged people to contribute to open-source projects they use. In fact, going the other way, I've worked in one place where they maintained a private fork of SQLite rather than allow programmers to submit changes upstream. Needless to say, this piece of stupidity was quite representative of management attitudes and the codebase as a whole. -- It's not paranoia if the requirements changes really are out to get you. http://surreal.istic.org/ It's like a DEATH CIRCUS! signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] Debugging Catalyst with Eclipse
I'm signing up for the wiki as I write this. If that is the direction
the documentation effort is going, I'm going to concentrate on it. My
employer allows me to dedicate some of my time each week to 'creative
projects unrelated to our core business' and is a big consumer of Open
Source and Free Software - so they support my giving back to OSS/FS.
I will definitely comb the mailing list archives to see what I can
come up with that can be fleshed out in documentation. However, I'm
keen to avoid deprecated code, so I may ask if things are still valid
or if my understanding of them is complete before I post docs.
One thing that I can't seem to find (and maybe I don't know where to
look) is an intermediate overview of how to use the stash in
coordination with templating systems. For example, I know that I can:
Example TT template:
A very basic template.
Here's the variable you passed to this page: [% foo %]
Example catalyst snippet:
my $foo = "bar";
$c->stash->{'foo'} = $foo;
So the resulting template will print the following html:
A very basic template.
Here's the variable you passed to this page: bar
However, the template toolkit also allows for hashes to be passed to it, like:
my $foo = ( bar => 'Foobar');
Which can then be accessed as [% foo.bar %] - if I'm understanding it correctly.
How do you pass this hash to catalyst? By deriving a reference?
i.e.
my $foo_ref = \%foo;
$c->stash->{'foo'}= $foo_ref;
If this is so, do you have to worry about dereferencing {foo} if you
need to check its value in the stash with another Catalyst controller?
i.e.
my $foobar_ref = $c->stash->{'foo'};
my $foobar = %{$foobar_ref};
Nathan
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Re: [Catalyst] Debugging Catalyst with Eclipse
Try going through the mailing list archives and extracting useful information. I got some useful advice on several sticking points, and I am sure others did too. Take that out and organise it. On 23/01/2008, Matt S Trout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Tue, Jan 22, 2008 at 09:13:51AM -0600, Nathan Waddell wrote: > > Matt, > > I'd love to help write more docs. What format do I use and who do I > > submit them to? > > That's where my "what can't you find that you want to know?" question > comes > from. There's a lot in various lists members' heads that isn't in the docs > because it's either (a) obvious to us (b) we're crap writers (me, for > example) > (c) we didn't get round to it. > > If you ask for info/techniques/etc. from people and make it clear that > you're > planning to turn the results into docs, I think you'll find you get an > excellent response. > > -- > Matt S Trout Need help with your Catalyst or DBIx::Class > project? >Technical Director > http://www.shadowcat.co.uk/catalyst/ > Shadowcat Systems Ltd. Want a managed development or deployment platform? > http://chainsawblues.vox.com/ > http://www.shadowcat.co.uk/servers/ > > ___ > List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk > Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst > Searchable archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ > Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/ > -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] Debugging Catalyst with Eclipse
On Tue, Jan 22, 2008 at 09:13:51AM -0600, Nathan Waddell wrote: > Matt, > I'd love to help write more docs. What format do I use and who do I > submit them to? That's where my "what can't you find that you want to know?" question comes from. There's a lot in various lists members' heads that isn't in the docs because it's either (a) obvious to us (b) we're crap writers (me, for example) (c) we didn't get round to it. If you ask for info/techniques/etc. from people and make it clear that you're planning to turn the results into docs, I think you'll find you get an excellent response. -- Matt S Trout Need help with your Catalyst or DBIx::Class project? Technical Directorhttp://www.shadowcat.co.uk/catalyst/ Shadowcat Systems Ltd. Want a managed development or deployment platform? http://chainsawblues.vox.com/http://www.shadowcat.co.uk/servers/ ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] Debugging Catalyst with Eclipse
I'd love to help write more docs. What format do I use POD and who do I submit them to? I'd suggest starting on the catalyst-dev list. Carl ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] Debugging Catalyst with Eclipse
Matt, I'd love to help write more docs. What format do I use and who do I submit them to? On Jan 22, 2008 3:21 AM, Matt S Trout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I understand what you're trying to express. > > What -I'm- trying to express is that all the documentation we have so far has > been written by volunteers. > > We know we could do with ten times as much documentation as we have. > > If you want there to be more docs, let us help you write some! ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] Debugging Catalyst with Eclipse
On Mon, Jan 21, 2008 at 11:22:37AM -0600, Nathan Waddell wrote: > Matt, > I guess what I'm trying to express is that - in my opinion - there is > a learning curve to Catalyst. I think more documentation could ease > that learning curve and help people get up to speed faster on how to > write, debug, and use Catalyst apps. I understand what you're trying to express. What -I'm- trying to express is that all the documentation we have so far has been written by volunteers. We know we could do with ten times as much documentation as we have. If you want there to be more docs, let us help you write some! -- Matt S Trout Need help with your Catalyst or DBIx::Class project? Technical Directorhttp://www.shadowcat.co.uk/catalyst/ Shadowcat Systems Ltd. Want a managed development or deployment platform? http://chainsawblues.vox.com/http://www.shadowcat.co.uk/servers/ ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: Re[2]: [Catalyst] Debugging Catalyst with Eclipse
On Mon, 2008-01-21 at 13:35 -0600, Nathan Waddell wrote:
> Dmitriy,
> I've been using Catalyst::Log to create debugging statements,
> combined with Data::Dump to output my data structures in certain
> places. It's crude, but it works.
>
> I'm going to try your method. Does it support breakpoints from within
> Eclipse? What limitations have you noticed?
You can set debugger breakpoints from within any editor. Just add this
to your code where you want the debugger to stop:
$DB::single = 1;
You can make it a conditional breakpoint also:
$DB::single = defined $c->req->params->{break};
Enjoy.
Regards,
Jonathan Rockway
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Re: Re[2]: [Catalyst] Debugging Catalyst with Eclipse
Dmitriy, Are you using the Perl CGI, Perl Local, or Perl Remote debugging configuration in Eclipse? On Jan 21, 2008 1:35 PM, Nathan Waddell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Dmitriy, > I've been using Catalyst::Log to create debugging statements, > combined with Data::Dump to output my data structures in certain > places. It's crude, but it works. > > I'm going to try your method. Does it support breakpoints from within > Eclipse? What limitations have you noticed? > > N > > > On Jan 21, 2008 1:21 PM, Dmitriy S. Sinyavskiy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hello, Nathan. > > You write 18 ?? 2008 ?., 18:28:45: > > > > NW> Wow, thanks for all the responses. > > > > NW> Troy, I'll subscribe to the EPIC list and see if I can get a > > NW> conversation started on their end. > > > > NW> Matt, I guess you're a member of the EPIC list? > > > > NW> Dmitriy, how did you set up Eclipse+EPIC to debug Catalyst apps? > > > > NW> Peter, the Devel::ebug as remote debugger sounds promising. However, > > NW> I'm brand new to Catalyst, so I'll have to dig into the docs on that > > NW> and see if I can figure it out. Thanks for the suggestion! > > > > NW> Nathan > > > > NW> ___ > > NW> List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk > > NW> Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst > > NW> Searchable archive: > > NW> http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ > > NW> Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/ > > > > I've installed EPIC Pad::Walker as shown in EPIC docs. > > Every time I debug *_server.pl file and using internal browser to > > create action events. > >I'm not so experienced to do automated tests. But it's enough > >information for me in debug Eclipse Perspective. > > Could you tell what are you usually debug? > > > > > > -- > > dreelmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Dmitriy S. Sinyavskiy > > Web-developerPerl, Catalyst, MSSQL > > FGUE EZANTelecommunication, data transfer networks and > > devices. > > > > > > ___ > > > > List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk > > Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst > > Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ > > Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/ > > > ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: Re[2]: [Catalyst] Debugging Catalyst with Eclipse
Dmitriy, I've been using Catalyst::Log to create debugging statements, combined with Data::Dump to output my data structures in certain places. It's crude, but it works. I'm going to try your method. Does it support breakpoints from within Eclipse? What limitations have you noticed? N On Jan 21, 2008 1:21 PM, Dmitriy S. Sinyavskiy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hello, Nathan. > You write 18 ?? 2008 ?., 18:28:45: > > NW> Wow, thanks for all the responses. > > NW> Troy, I'll subscribe to the EPIC list and see if I can get a > NW> conversation started on their end. > > NW> Matt, I guess you're a member of the EPIC list? > > NW> Dmitriy, how did you set up Eclipse+EPIC to debug Catalyst apps? > > NW> Peter, the Devel::ebug as remote debugger sounds promising. However, > NW> I'm brand new to Catalyst, so I'll have to dig into the docs on that > NW> and see if I can figure it out. Thanks for the suggestion! > > NW> Nathan > > NW> ___ > NW> List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk > NW> Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst > NW> Searchable archive: > NW> http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ > NW> Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/ > > I've installed EPIC Pad::Walker as shown in EPIC docs. > Every time I debug *_server.pl file and using internal browser to > create action events. >I'm not so experienced to do automated tests. But it's enough >information for me in debug Eclipse Perspective. > Could you tell what are you usually debug? > > > -- > dreelmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Dmitriy S. Sinyavskiy > Web-developerPerl, Catalyst, MSSQL > FGUE EZANTelecommunication, data transfer networks and > devices. > > > ___ > > List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk > Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst > Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ > Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/ > ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re[2]: [Catalyst] Debugging Catalyst with Eclipse
Hello, Nathan. You write 18 ?? 2008 ?., 18:28:45: NW> Wow, thanks for all the responses. NW> Troy, I'll subscribe to the EPIC list and see if I can get a NW> conversation started on their end. NW> Matt, I guess you're a member of the EPIC list? NW> Dmitriy, how did you set up Eclipse+EPIC to debug Catalyst apps? NW> Peter, the Devel::ebug as remote debugger sounds promising. However, NW> I'm brand new to Catalyst, so I'll have to dig into the docs on that NW> and see if I can figure it out. Thanks for the suggestion! NW> Nathan NW> ___ NW> List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk NW> Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst NW> Searchable archive: NW> http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ NW> Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/ I've installed EPIC Pad::Walker as shown in EPIC docs. Every time I debug *_server.pl file and using internal browser to create action events. I'm not so experienced to do automated tests. But it's enough information for me in debug Eclipse Perspective. Could you tell what are you usually debug? -- dreelmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Dmitriy S. Sinyavskiy Web-developerPerl, Catalyst, MSSQL FGUE EZANTelecommunication, data transfer networks and devices. ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] Debugging Catalyst with Eclipse
Matt, I guess what I'm trying to express is that - in my opinion - there is a learning curve to Catalyst. I think more documentation could ease that learning curve and help people get up to speed faster on how to write, debug, and use Catalyst apps. Please understand that I'm certainly not trying to incite an editor war here or criticize Catalyst in any way other than constructively. >From the perspective of a newbie to Catalyst, there are a lot of hurdles to jump - and removing those hurdles (or at least lowering them ;) with more documentation would help a lot ... in my opinion. I program in Perl for a living, so I'm fortunate that I have a lot of familiarity with the Perlish way to do things. I can't imagine being a newcomer to Perl as well as Catalyst. The hurdles (again, just in my opinion, so take it for what it's worth) are: Installation The biggest help here is the shadowcat installer. Of course, it's not apparent to people who are very new to Perl that this installer script uses Perl and CPAN to install the required modules. I've also used Task::Catalyst to install things - and it is very cleanly done. However, a default config of CPAN has the user stuck at the CPAN screen hitting 'y' over and over ... so some education on this could go a long way. Additionally, I had a very bad experience trying to install Catalyst via PPMs with ActiveState's Active Perl. Those PPMs need a lot of work. Getting started The tutorial on CPAN is great help here, but it only goes so far. The Cookbook was actually more helpful where it counted, so expanding the Cookbook with lots of examples of how to do things with Catalyst would be helpful. Jonathan's book really fills the gap here. Some in-depth articles could really help though - for example, a tutorial on how to use TT and TTSite with Catalyst. Debugging Ideally, I would find the articles I mentioned above, so I can read an article and know how to debug Catalyst with my preferred IDE, in the way that is most advantageous for me (i.e. logging vs Perl debugger vs other debugging methods). An article that walked through the different options for debugging catalyst apps and highlighted their strengths and weaknesses would be nice. An article on how to set up Eclipse to remotely debug Catalyst apps would be nice as well. Eclipse is a widely used application, and many programmers prefer a graphical IDE. An article on how to set up Komodo for remote debugging Catalyst apps would also be nice to have. Komodo is gaining a lot of reputation as 'The' Perl IDE. I would actually prefer to use it myself, but my company has standardized on Eclipse - so I'm stuck with it. That's another good point to make here - many companies have standardized development tools that the programming peons *have* to use. I don't think "keep practicing your vi/emacs" is a good answer to the question of how to code and debug Catalyst apps in an IDE. That choice may have already been made for them, and if they can't figure it out easily on their own, they may give Catalyst a pass and move on to CGI::Application or some other framework. Sure, each user has the right to make that choice, and those frameworks have their particular strengths. However, missing out on Catalyst's elegance and power simply because you can't get an IDE to play nice with it seems criminal. Deployment Jonathan covers this in his book, but the topic could certainly stand a more in-depth treatment. What options do I have for deploying my application? Executable? Makefile.PL? Tarball? CPAN? Production How can I set up my infrastructure to make my Catalyst app as robust as possible? What are the different ways I can configure my infrastructure to support my application? Load-balanced? Write a front-end server that hands requests to backend servers? Should I use Apache 1 and mod_perl or Apache 2 and mod_perl2? Are there any advantageous things I can do when I am setting up mod_perl/mod_perl2 to make development easier, less tedious, or provide more performance in Catalyst? What about Fast CGI? What about the other Catalyst::Engine options? All this additional documentation may not be necessary, but it would be *helpful*, especially to those who are new to Perl. It would also be helpful to those coming to Perl and Catalyst from the Micro$oft paradigm - they will generally expect to use a graphical IDE with inline debugging/inline remote debugging to write code. I'm not advocating turning away from using CPAN to contain and maintain the documentation. I'm advocating adding to the documentation and providing it in a more friendly format on the catalyst.perl.org site. Integrate the documentation with the look and feel of the site and don't just shuffle the user to CPAN. Add some articles and such to the site that showcase how to do things and how easily those things can be done with Catalyst. Maybe even open up the catalyst.perl.org site for user contributions. If someone asked me what Catalyst was a
Re: Re: [Catalyst] Debugging Catalyst with Eclipse
Good rant ;-) On Jan 21, 2008 1:13 PM, Jonathan Rockway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Mon, 2008-01-21 at 13:35 +0300, dreel wrote: > > I'm using Eclipse. I'm so tired to write code in notepad-like editors > and switching between Terminal windows to debug. > > I've tried to use Vi for Win32 but my Win-oriented brain doesn't > understand it ( > > Like anything, it takes practice to get used to. I "used" emacs for > years before I was good at it. You just have to be dedicated... learn > one thing and consciously remember to use it when you have a chance (and > if you remember after you do something manually, undo that and try doing > it automatically). When you've mastered that, you open up the manual, > scan it for something interesting and then learn that. Repeat for 10 > years. Every day you will become more and more efficient, which makes > it easier for you to concentrate on writing your program, not typing it > into the computer. > > At this point, I've learned emacs well enough to have it syntax-check my > code automatically, switch to any file in a project with just a few > keystrokes (even if the file has a long name), switch to any other > project in a few keystrokes, automatically maintain my Makefile.PLs, > help me resolve test failures, show me documentation for any module I'm > using, etc. The point is, a little time investing in a real editor will > mean that you spend most of your time thinking about intelligent things, > not which menu to move your mouse to. Can eclipse do that? If not, can > you make it? If the answer's no, you're wasting your time. > > It's the same reason we use Perl... there's a lot of syntax to learn, > but that little bit of learning saves thousands of hours over the span > over your career (compared to, say, Java or PHP). > > > > Regards, > Jonathan Rockway > > ___ > List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk > Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst > Searchable archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ > Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/ > > -- Nothing is ever easy ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: Re: [Catalyst] Debugging Catalyst with Eclipse
On Mon, 2008-01-21 at 13:35 +0300, dreel wrote: > I'm using Eclipse. I'm so tired to write code in notepad-like editors and > switching between Terminal windows to debug. > I've tried to use Vi for Win32 but my Win-oriented brain doesn't understand > it ( Like anything, it takes practice to get used to. I "used" emacs for years before I was good at it. You just have to be dedicated... learn one thing and consciously remember to use it when you have a chance (and if you remember after you do something manually, undo that and try doing it automatically). When you've mastered that, you open up the manual, scan it for something interesting and then learn that. Repeat for 10 years. Every day you will become more and more efficient, which makes it easier for you to concentrate on writing your program, not typing it into the computer. At this point, I've learned emacs well enough to have it syntax-check my code automatically, switch to any file in a project with just a few keystrokes (even if the file has a long name), switch to any other project in a few keystrokes, automatically maintain my Makefile.PLs, help me resolve test failures, show me documentation for any module I'm using, etc. The point is, a little time investing in a real editor will mean that you spend most of your time thinking about intelligent things, not which menu to move your mouse to. Can eclipse do that? If not, can you make it? If the answer's no, you're wasting your time. It's the same reason we use Perl... there's a lot of syntax to learn, but that little bit of learning saves thousands of hours over the span over your career (compared to, say, Java or PHP). Regards, Jonathan Rockway signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: Re: [Catalyst] Debugging Catalyst with Eclipse
I'm using Eclipse. I'm so tired to write code in notepad-like editors and switching between Terminal windows to debug. I've tried to use Vi for Win32 but my Win-oriented brain doesn't understand it ( ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] Debugging Catalyst with Eclipse
On Fri, Jan 18, 2008 at 12:26:24PM -0600, Nathan Waddell wrote: > It would be really nice if there were some detailed articles on > dev.catalyst.perl.org regarding different options for debugging and > how to implement them. The documentation for the various things Peter already mentioned describes them in detail; there's nothing particularly Catalyst-specific about the debuggers. What are you looking for that isn't already in the documentation? -- Matt S Trout Need help with your Catalyst or DBIx::Class project? Technical Directorhttp://www.shadowcat.co.uk/catalyst/ Shadowcat Systems Ltd. Want a managed development or deployment platform? http://chainsawblues.vox.com/http://www.shadowcat.co.uk/servers/ ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] Debugging Catalyst with Eclipse
On Fri, Jan 18, 2008 at 09:28:45AM -0600, Nathan Waddell wrote: > Wow, thanks for all the responses. > > Troy, I'll subscribe to the EPIC list and see if I can get a > conversation started on their end. > > Matt, I guess you're a member of the EPIC list? No, not at all. As I already said, I consider heavyweight graphical IDEs a waste of CPU and RAM. I write using vi, interact with code using Devel::REPL and navigate round my project tree using standard UNIX shell tools. IDEs strike me as a perverse beast that evolved only because Windows doesn't have a usable CLI. Therefore, I use a workstation oriented OS for develop and leave Windows as a somewhat memory-hungry game launcher, the one task at which I've found it mostly works. -- Matt S Trout Need help with your Catalyst or DBIx::Class project? Technical Directorhttp://www.shadowcat.co.uk/catalyst/ Shadowcat Systems Ltd. Want a managed development or deployment platform? http://chainsawblues.vox.com/http://www.shadowcat.co.uk/servers/ ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
RE: [Catalyst] Debugging Catalyst with Eclipse
I have been using Komodo for a few years now and I am very happy with it in general. Thanks, -- Ali Mesdaq (CISSP, GIAC-GREM) Security Researcher II Websense Security Labs http://www.WebsenseSecurityLabs.com -- -Original Message- From: Dmitriy S. Sinyavskiy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 4:33 PM To: The elegant MVC web framework Subject: Re: [Catalyst] Debugging Catalyst with Eclipse Hello, Nathan. You write 17 2008 ., 18:37:19: I'm using Eclipse IDE + EPIC to debug my Catalyst apps. With Pad::Walker it can show values on variables even objects it's very useful to understand insides of processing) I'm using it in complex: internal browser, error output, debugger In the most of cases it helps me. What things are you interested in? P.S. Really I'm still looking for good Perl IDE, but it still very poor assortment. -- dreelmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Dmitriy S. Sinyavskiy Web-developerPerl, Catalyst, MSSQL FGUE EZANTelecommunication, data transfer networks and devices. ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/ TO REPORT THIS AS SPAM, PLEASE CLICK THE FOLLOWING LINK: https://www.mailcontrol.com/sr/wQw0zmjPoHdJTZGyOCrrhg== MPslwhtT67Y9M35BDPAcmHYMJdx3EW4E5RVe9IPGZ63g!70mmXD6RRwpuDI8VP!NwraIKwwc oF4hLIFg9snnNRfRDRJONuPMzxHzkR!TnqQfkRhUsQAIgDbOm2hcWZrtJcnyCORpn8dKo8Nz dFcGl2hqcv+SQosHdtj59w2k+qd72ZgirMTZHhU Protected by Websense Messaging Security -- www.websense.com ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] Debugging Catalyst with Eclipse
It would be really nice if there were some detailed articles on dev.catalyst.perl.org regarding different options for debugging and how to implement them. On Jan 18, 2008 10:38 AM, Peter Edwards <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > -Original Message- > >From: Nathan Waddell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Sent: 18 January 2008 15:29 > >To: The elegant MVC web framework > >Subject: Re: [Catalyst] Debugging Catalyst with Eclipse > > > >Wow, thanks for all the responses. > > > >Troy, I'll subscribe to the EPIC list and see if I can get a > >conversation started on their end. > > > >Matt, I guess you're a member of the EPIC list? > > > >Dmitriy, how did you set up Eclipse+EPIC to debug Catalyst apps? > > > >Peter, the Devel::ebug as remote debugger sounds promising. However, > >I'm brand new to Catalyst, so I'll have to dig into the docs on that > >and see if I can figure it out. Thanks for the suggestion! > > Hi Nathan. Hooking Eclipse + EPIC to Devel::ebug is a separate issue from > using Catalyst. I'd suggest aiming first to be able to remotely debug a > "hello world!" program. > > Catalyst has a lot of debugging stuff built in, script/myapp_test.pl front > end, Test::WWW::Mechanize wrapper, mock objects, fake requests and so on, > which is where Matt's offer to help might come in handy if you want to add > some Catalyst-specific goodies to the Eclipse front end that make use of its > internals. > > Finally, to debug mod_perl problems (the few that you can't fix with > log4perl prints, Mech tests and so on), it would be handy to have a front > end option to invoke a debug Apache. You can do this with something like > "httpd -f myhttpdebug.conf -X -DPERLDB" and use Apache::DB ins the .conf > file. More pointers here > http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2006/02/09/debug_mod_perl.html?page=2 > > > > Regards, Peter > http://perl.dragonstaff.co.uk > > > > ___ > List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk > Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst > Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ > Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/ > ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] Debugging Catalyst with Eclipse
-Original Message- >From: Nathan Waddell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Sent: 18 January 2008 15:29 >To: The elegant MVC web framework >Subject: Re: [Catalyst] Debugging Catalyst with Eclipse > >Wow, thanks for all the responses. > >Troy, I'll subscribe to the EPIC list and see if I can get a >conversation started on their end. > >Matt, I guess you're a member of the EPIC list? > >Dmitriy, how did you set up Eclipse+EPIC to debug Catalyst apps? > >Peter, the Devel::ebug as remote debugger sounds promising. However, >I'm brand new to Catalyst, so I'll have to dig into the docs on that >and see if I can figure it out. Thanks for the suggestion! Hi Nathan. Hooking Eclipse + EPIC to Devel::ebug is a separate issue from using Catalyst. I'd suggest aiming first to be able to remotely debug a "hello world!" program. Catalyst has a lot of debugging stuff built in, script/myapp_test.pl front end, Test::WWW::Mechanize wrapper, mock objects, fake requests and so on, which is where Matt's offer to help might come in handy if you want to add some Catalyst-specific goodies to the Eclipse front end that make use of its internals. Finally, to debug mod_perl problems (the few that you can't fix with log4perl prints, Mech tests and so on), it would be handy to have a front end option to invoke a debug Apache. You can do this with something like "httpd -f myhttpdebug.conf -X -DPERLDB" and use Apache::DB ins the .conf file. More pointers here http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2006/02/09/debug_mod_perl.html?page=2 Regards, Peter http://perl.dragonstaff.co.uk ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] Debugging Catalyst with Eclipse
Wow, thanks for all the responses. Troy, I'll subscribe to the EPIC list and see if I can get a conversation started on their end. Matt, I guess you're a member of the EPIC list? Dmitriy, how did you set up Eclipse+EPIC to debug Catalyst apps? Peter, the Devel::ebug as remote debugger sounds promising. However, I'm brand new to Catalyst, so I'll have to dig into the docs on that and see if I can figure it out. Thanks for the suggestion! Nathan ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
RE: [Catalyst] Debugging Catalyst with Eclipse
>On Thu, Jan 17, 2008 at 11:11:13AM -0500, Troy Davis wrote: > On Jan 17, 2008, at 10:37 AM, Nathan Waddell wrote: > >I'm specifically looking for some tips on how to set up Eclipse (with > >EPIC, of course) to debug Catalyst applications - either locally or > >remotely. I'm ok with using the Catalyst built-in development server > >for this, so no worries about Apache, etc. >.. I was having a look at Devel::ebug yesterday, which has a sane split of client and server components. If Eclipse/EPIC has remote debugger support you could lash it up to that. There's already a Devel::ebug::HTTP Catalyst app which uses AJAX to do something similar except of course you'd want to single step and examine variables from Eclipse not a web page. In the past, about 7 years ago I think, I tried using ActiveState from Windows dev PC using remote access to the perl debugger running on Linux (PERLDB_OPTSD="RemotePort=127.0.0.1:010 ReadLine=0" perl -d test.pl etc.) It was too much hassle to use and too slow for the edit/test cycle (I needed to debug the web apps under Linux) so I gave up and stuck with the command line debugger. The most useful thing I find with it in Catalyst is using 'm' on an object to see all the object methods it supports. Regards, Peter http://perl.dragonstaff.co.uk ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] Debugging Catalyst with Eclipse
On Thu, Jan 17, 2008 at 11:11:13AM -0500, Troy Davis wrote: > On Jan 17, 2008, at 10:37 AM, Nathan Waddell wrote: > >I'm specifically looking for some tips on how to set up Eclipse (with > >EPIC, of course) to debug Catalyst applications - either locally or > >remotely. I'm ok with using the Catalyst built-in development server > >for this, so no worries about Apache, etc. > > I use eclipse when working on my catalyst apps. I'm using EPIC as > well, which helps me catch many bugs. But I've never found a way to > debug an app interactively from within eclipse. EPIC claims to > contain a debugger, so I suppose it's theoretically possible, but I'm > not sure how it would work in a Catalyst context. I also have a few > errors that eclipse lists, but which don't cause and problems in the > app. Tweaking paths and such hasn't helped so far, and the authors of > EPIC were kind enough to reply to my messages about that issue, but > didn't work with Catalyst so didn't have a recommended solution. > > I'd also like to see a better debugging environment for Catalyst apps > under EPIC, so post a message to the EPIC email list. Hopefully an > increase in message traffic about Catalyst on EPIC will result in > more attention being paid to getting it to work. I'd be perfectly happy to act as "the guy who understands Catalyst" in order to help make this happen. Personally, I consider screen+vi+Devel::REPL to be my IDE but it doesn't mean I don't want to see other people's preferences supported too :) -- Matt S Trout Need help with your Catalyst or DBIx::Class project? Technical Directorhttp://www.shadowcat.co.uk/catalyst/ Shadowcat Systems Ltd. Want a managed development or deployment platform? http://chainsawblues.vox.com/http://www.shadowcat.co.uk/servers/ ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] Debugging Catalyst with Eclipse
Hello, Nathan. You write 17 2008 ., 18:37:19: I'm using Eclipse IDE + EPIC to debug my Catalyst apps. With Pad::Walker it can show values on variables even objects it's very useful to understand insides of processing) I'm using it in complex: internal browser, error output, debugger In the most of cases it helps me. What things are you interested in? P.S. Really I'm still looking for good Perl IDE, but it still very poor assortment. -- dreelmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Dmitriy S. Sinyavskiy Web-developerPerl, Catalyst, MSSQL FGUE EZANTelecommunication, data transfer networks and devices. ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] Debugging Catalyst with Eclipse
--- Troy Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Jan 17, 2008, at 10:37 AM, Nathan Waddell wrote: > > I'm specifically looking for some tips on how to > set up Eclipse (with > > EPIC, of course) to debug Catalyst applications - > either locally or > > remotely. I'm ok with using the Catalyst built-in > development server > > for this, so no worries about Apache, etc. > > I use eclipse when working on my catalyst apps. I'm > using EPIC as > well, which helps me catch many bugs. But I've never > found a way to > debug an app interactively from within eclipse. EPIC > claims to > contain a debugger, so I suppose it's theoretically > possible, but I'm > not sure how it would work in a Catalyst context. I > also have a few > errors that eclipse lists, but which don't cause and > problems in the > app. Tweaking paths and such hasn't helped so far, > and the authors of > EPIC were kind enough to reply to my messages about > that issue, but > didn't work with Catalyst so didn't have a > recommended solution. > > I'd also like to see a better debugging environment > for Catalyst apps > under EPIC, so post a message to the EPIC email > list. Hopefully an > increase in message traffic about Catalyst on EPIC > will result in > more attention being paid to getting it to work. > > You can still get interactive debugging to work in a > terminal, though: > > http://search.cpan.org/~jrockway/Catalyst-Manual-5.701003/lib/ > > Catalyst/Manual/Tutorial/ > Debugging.pod#RUNNING_CATALYST_UNDER_THE_PERL_DEBUGGER > > Cheers, > Troy I also use Eclipse quite a bit, mostly because I like it's XML and HTML editor as well as some Javascript plugins. EPIC works okay for me, but I don't expect very much, just variable completion, and other stuff that works just as good in VI. Mostly I just like having one place for all my editing that is friendly to me For debugging I use either lots of logging or the commandline debugger. -john > > ___ > List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk > Listinfo: > http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst > Searchable archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ > Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/ > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] Debugging Catalyst with Eclipse
On Jan 17, 2008, at 10:37 AM, Nathan Waddell wrote: I'm specifically looking for some tips on how to set up Eclipse (with EPIC, of course) to debug Catalyst applications - either locally or remotely. I'm ok with using the Catalyst built-in development server for this, so no worries about Apache, etc. I use eclipse when working on my catalyst apps. I'm using EPIC as well, which helps me catch many bugs. But I've never found a way to debug an app interactively from within eclipse. EPIC claims to contain a debugger, so I suppose it's theoretically possible, but I'm not sure how it would work in a Catalyst context. I also have a few errors that eclipse lists, but which don't cause and problems in the app. Tweaking paths and such hasn't helped so far, and the authors of EPIC were kind enough to reply to my messages about that issue, but didn't work with Catalyst so didn't have a recommended solution. I'd also like to see a better debugging environment for Catalyst apps under EPIC, so post a message to the EPIC email list. Hopefully an increase in message traffic about Catalyst on EPIC will result in more attention being paid to getting it to work. You can still get interactive debugging to work in a terminal, though: http://search.cpan.org/~jrockway/Catalyst-Manual-5.701003/lib/ Catalyst/Manual/Tutorial/ Debugging.pod#RUNNING_CATALYST_UNDER_THE_PERL_DEBUGGER Cheers, Troy ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
[Catalyst] Debugging Catalyst with Eclipse
Does anyone have experience with using the Eclipse IDE to debug Catalyst applications? I've searched the web and the archives, and didn't find anything that guided me in the right direction. Perhaps my search-fu isn't very powerful this morning, so if there's an existing thread, I apologize. I'm specifically looking for some tips on how to set up Eclipse (with EPIC, of course) to debug Catalyst applications - either locally or remotely. I'm ok with using the Catalyst built-in development server for this, so no worries about Apache, etc. I'd appreciate any help you can offer. N ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
