Re: [Catalyst] How to use local::lib
On Tue, 23 Jun 2009, Tobias Kremer wrote:
Cool, but what I really meant to ask was: Is it possible to require a
specific version in your Makefile.PL and have only this version
installed during "make installdeps"? :) This would possibly solve most
of the CPAN-related deployment problems.
FWIW, Module::Build does support this sort of specificity:
prereqs => { 'Test::More', '== 0.55',
'Moose', '> 0.81, != 0.82',
}
-dave
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Re: [Catalyst] How to use local::lib
On 23 Jun 2009, at 09:41, Tobias Kremer wrote: Developers can then use what they like (and whatever OS/versions of modules) they want, if they want to install the app locally, but that's unsupported. I'd also make a 'production like' (i.e. same OS) vmware machine available with the 'standard' dependencies - all of your developers should be given enough horsepower to run vmware, problem solved. Yes, that'd be possible. Nevertheless, it would be nice if you could bring up a new development box with "make installdeps" that "just works" because it has the right module versions installed and not some new, probably incompatible version. Aha, well, the obvious correct solution to that is to spin up and install your environment dependencies with the latest CPAN $everything on a nightly basis, and run your smoke tests, then yell at CPAN authors whos newer module broke your code.. If you're not doing something similar (even if more informally), then you can get into big issues in a couple of years trying to reuse any modern code (or upgrade something due to a bug) - it has newer dependencies, and you can't upgrade, and suddenly you're in a nasty place... I totally appreciate the need to have a 'known environment' for production, but at least testing newer CPAN releases automatically is very worthwhile.. Cool, but what I really meant to ask was: Is it possible to require a specific version in your Makefile.PL and have only this version installed during "make installdeps"? :) This would possibly solve most of the CPAN-related deployment problems. No, unfortunately it isn't.. Cheers t0m ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] How to use local::lib
On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:26 AM, Tomas Doran wrote: > I think you need a better separation between development and staging. If > you're not running something production like in staging, then IMO you're > really screwed. Actually, we do :) > Developers can then use what they like (and whatever OS/versions of modules) > they want, if they want to install the app locally, but that's unsupported. > I'd also make a 'production like' (i.e. same OS) vmware machine available > with the 'standard' dependencies - all of your developers should be given > enough horsepower to run vmware, problem solved. Yes, that'd be possible. Nevertheless, it would be nice if you could bring up a new development box with "make installdeps" that "just works" because it has the right module versions installed and not some new, probably incompatible version. >> By the way: Would it theoretically be possible to install specific >> versions of a CPAN distribution? Is there possibly already work >> underway to achieve this? I think that this would really solve a lot >> of deployment trouble ... > Erm, it's already practically possible. You just need to ask the CPAN shell > for a specific revision. Cool, but what I really meant to ask was: Is it possible to require a specific version in your Makefile.PL and have only this version installed during "make installdeps"? :) This would possibly solve most of the CPAN-related deployment problems. > At work I debian package everything. But you're still going to make one > package per dependency per platform. > That's a lot of work.. And it totally precludes having different > applications with different versions of the same module on the same machine. I tried that with Catalyst::Runtime a couple of weeks ago and it still hurts :) Thanks for your help! --Tobias ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] How to use local::lib
On 23 Jun 2009, at 08:59, Tobias Kremer wrote: These things make the local::lib approach a bit more unappealing for us. For one thing, it appears to be still quite a bit rough around the edges and I doubt that there's anything I personally could do about it because my knowledge there is limited. Secondly, we really would like to have a central repository for our development AND production systems. What proven alternatives are there if you have developers working on OS X, Ubuntu etc. and deploy on a different (Debian) system? Erm, well, the new --self-contained feature is a little rough round the edges, sure. local::lib itself just works given what it was originally trying to accomplish. I think you need a better separation between development and staging. If you're not running something production like in staging, then IMO you're really screwed. Developers can then use what they like (and whatever OS/versions of modules) they want, if they want to install the app locally, but that's unsupported. I'd also make a 'production like' (i.e. same OS) vmware machine available with the 'standard' dependencies - all of your developers should be given enough horsepower to run vmware, problem solved. What about CPAN::Mini? At first, it sounds strange to have a whole copy of the CPAN around (although it's not that big), but then again it sounds really cool to just "make installdeps" and have everything installed in the correct version in a cross-platform compatible way. Yes, you can just point an ftp server at a CPAN::Mini, then set your CPAN shell to use that as your CPAN mirror - it'll just work.. By the way: Would it theoretically be possible to install specific versions of a CPAN distribution? Is there possibly already work underway to achieve this? I think that this would really solve a lot of deployment trouble ... Erm, it's already practically possible. You just need to ask the CPAN shell for a specific revision. So, how are you doing your deployment? :) I believe this is an area where there's still a lot of homebrew stuff going on and it would be nice to have one (or 2-3) ways to do it! I'd be willing to write something up for the wiki if there's enough input. At work I debian package everything. But you're still going to make one package per dependency per platform. That's a lot of work.. And it totally precludes having different applications with different versions of the same module on the same machine. I guess this comes down to how many environments you're prepared to 'officially' support, and what your constraints are. Cheers t0m ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] How to use local::lib
On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 7:04 PM, Tomas Doran wrote: > On 22 Jun 2009, at 16:43, Tobias Kremer wrote: >> Am I missing something here or do I really have to checkout my app on >> a fresh installation with no prerequisites installed and try the above >> there? > Yeah, pretty much at the moment. If you install all your prerequisites in a > local::lib, then if you blank PERL5LIB, then it _just works_. >> Also, am I right that this method won't work for XS-based modules if >> I'm building my local_lib, say on a Ubuntu system, while the >> production system is Debian-based? > Correct. You'll have to build your local::lib on a system with similar > architecture to your production boxen. These things make the local::lib approach a bit more unappealing for us. For one thing, it appears to be still quite a bit rough around the edges and I doubt that there's anything I personally could do about it because my knowledge there is limited. Secondly, we really would like to have a central repository for our development AND production systems. What proven alternatives are there if you have developers working on OS X, Ubuntu etc. and deploy on a different (Debian) system? What about CPAN::Mini? At first, it sounds strange to have a whole copy of the CPAN around (although it's not that big), but then again it sounds really cool to just "make installdeps" and have everything installed in the correct version in a cross-platform compatible way. By the way: Would it theoretically be possible to install specific versions of a CPAN distribution? Is there possibly already work underway to achieve this? I think that this would really solve a lot of deployment trouble ... So, how are you doing your deployment? :) I believe this is an area where there's still a lot of homebrew stuff going on and it would be nice to have one (or 2-3) ways to do it! I'd be willing to write something up for the wiki if there's enough input. Thanks a lot! --Tobias ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] How to use local::lib
On 22 Jun 2009, at 16:43, Tobias Kremer wrote: After reading about local::lib and thinking that it's too good to be true, I just had to try it out as a possible deployment method for one of our apps. I have the app and all dependencies running on my development box. The prerequisites are specified in my app's Makefile.PL. Now, after having bootstrapped local::lib, I ran the following commands - as suggested by t0m in a recent thread - but nothing happens because all required modules are already installed in my system-wide CPAN directory in their correct versions: Yeah, unfortunately, this doesn't work so good unless your dependencies have been installed in a local::lib themselves, and you can remove this from PERL5LIB After rambling about 'just do it like this', I then wandered off and tried to make the new --self-contained feature of this work. Wasn't quite as easy to make it work generically than I'd implied I don't think. $ eval $(perl -I$HOME/perl5/lib/perl5 -Mlocal::lib=--self- contained,local_lib) $ make installdeps Am I missing something here or do I really have to checkout my app on a fresh installation with no prerequisites installed and try the above there? Yeah, pretty much at the moment. If you install all your prerequisites in a local::lib, then if you blank PERL5LIB, then it _just works_. However have a look at: http://bobtfish.livejournal.com/264777.html http://github.com/bobtfish/catalyst-app-example-locallibapp/tree/master This is what I threw together after making that posting, and whilst it's not quite all there yet - it will at least install a self contained Catalyst & etc. Also, am I right that this method won't work for XS-based modules if I'm building my local_lib, say on a Ubuntu system, while the production system is Debian-based? Correct. You'll have to build your local::lib on a system with similar architecture to your production boxen. Cheers t0m ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] How to use local::lib
On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 8:43 AM, Tobias Kremer wrote: > After reading about local::lib and thinking that it's too good to be > true, I just had to try it out as a possible deployment method for one > of our apps. I have the app and all dependencies running on my > development box. The prerequisites are specified in my app's > Makefile.PL. Now, after having bootstrapped local::lib, I ran the > following commands - as suggested by t0m in a recent thread - but > nothing happens because all required modules are already installed in > my system-wide CPAN directory in their correct versions: > > $ eval $(perl -I$HOME/perl5/lib/perl5 > -Mlocal::lib=--self-contained,local_lib) > $ make installdeps > > Am I missing something here or do I really have to checkout my app on > a fresh installation with no prerequisites installed and try the above > there? --self-contained does not work when exporting variables to the environment because of the way the perl runtime works. Basically perl will always setup @INC to include system libraries, regardless of what is in PERL5LIB. You can try this: PERL5OPT="-Mlocal::lib=--self-contained,local_lib" (But you may encounter some problems with taint checking) Rob ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
[Catalyst] How to use local::lib
After reading about local::lib and thinking that it's too good to be true, I just had to try it out as a possible deployment method for one of our apps. I have the app and all dependencies running on my development box. The prerequisites are specified in my app's Makefile.PL. Now, after having bootstrapped local::lib, I ran the following commands - as suggested by t0m in a recent thread - but nothing happens because all required modules are already installed in my system-wide CPAN directory in their correct versions: $ eval $(perl -I$HOME/perl5/lib/perl5 -Mlocal::lib=--self-contained,local_lib) $ make installdeps Am I missing something here or do I really have to checkout my app on a fresh installation with no prerequisites installed and try the above there? Also, am I right that this method won't work for XS-based modules if I'm building my local_lib, say on a Ubuntu system, while the production system is Debian-based? Thanks a lot for any hints! --Tobias ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
