Re: [Catalyst] RFC: Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC
On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 7:31 PM, Mark Trostler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > You don't need 'create' & 'update' & 'delete' parts of your URL - those > should be denoted by the request type - POST, PUT, or DELETE right? Yes - you are right about REST, but what something more than that. We want to have is a REST interface together with something REST-like that will work for browsers. > Similarly you don't need 'id' in the url - so POST to /api/rest/cd will > create a cd. A PUT to /api/rest/cd/5 will update that CD - a DELETE to > /api/rest/cd/5 will delete that CD... Additionally we would like to have other non REST actions in the same controller. This mixing will require some separation between the method names and the object id (which is data). This is why I propose /cd/instance/5 for the retrieve action. -- Zbigniew ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC
You don't need 'create' & 'update' & 'delete' parts of your URL - those
should be denoted by the request type - POST, PUT, or DELETE right?
Similarly you don't need 'id' in the url - so POST to /api/rest/cd will
create a cd. A PUT to /api/rest/cd/5 will update that CD - a DELETE to
/api/rest/cd/5 will delete that CD...
Mark
Zbigniew Lukasiak wrote:
Hi there,
This is a frequently recurring conversation - so I created a wiki page
to gather all the points where we reached some consensus:
http://catwiki.toeat.com/crud. For the start I just dumped my
opinions. I tried to be not controversial - but it is a wiki - if you
don't agree then you can edit it and make it more acceptable for you.
I am especially waiting for people with opinions on the REST and
browser REST part - I have got much knowledge in that area.
Cheers,
Zbigniew
On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 2:38 AM, luke saunders <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I have started to write a Catalyst base controller for REST style CRUD
via DBIC. I have noticed that a number of other people have been
working on or are thinking about working on something similar, most
notabley J. Shirley who seems to be creating
Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC::Item
(http://dev.catalystframework.org/svnweb/Catalyst/browse/Catalyst-Controller-REST-DBIC-Item/)
and some chaps from a recent thread on this list (entitled
"Dispatching with Chained vs HTTP method").
Ideally I would like to merge J. Shirley's effort into mine (or visa
versa) along with anything that anyone else has. Basically I want to
avoid ending up with a load of modules that all do the same thing.
My effort is heavily based on something mst wrote a while ago, and
since then I've ended up writing something very similar for every
project I've worked on which indicates it's worth OSing. Essentially
it is used like so:
package MyApp::Controller::API::REST::CD;
use base qw/Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC/;
...
__PACKAGE__->config
( action => { setup => { PathPart => 'cd', Chained =>
'/api/rest/rest_base' } },
class => 'RestTestDB::CD',
create_requires => ['artist', 'title', 'year' ],
update_allows => ['title', 'year']
);
And this gets you the following endpoints to fire requests at:
/api/rest/cd/create
/api/rest/cd/id/[cdid]/update
/api/rest/cd/id/[cdid]/delete
/api/rest/cd/id/[cdid]/add_to_rel/[relation]
/api/rest/cd/id/[cdid]/remove_from_rel/[relation]
The full source is here:
http://lukesaunders.me.uk/dists/Catalyst-Controller-REST-DBIC-1.00.tar.gz
If you have a few moments please have a look, especially if you are
working on something similar. Today I even wrote a test suite which
has a test app and is probably the best place to look to see what it
does.
Note that it lacks:
- list and view type methods which dump objects to JSON (or whatever)
- clever validation - it should validate based on the DBIC column
definitions but it doesn't
- any auth - not sure if it should or not, but it's possible
Also it doesn't distinguish between POST, PUT, DELETE and GET HTTP
requests favouring instead entirely separate endpoints, but that's up
for discussion.
So, J. Shirley, do you have any interest in a merge? And others, do
you have ideas and would you like to contribute?
Thanks,
Luke.
___
List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk
Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/
Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
___
List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk
Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/
Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC
Hi there,
This is a frequently recurring conversation - so I created a wiki page
to gather all the points where we reached some consensus:
http://catwiki.toeat.com/crud. For the start I just dumped my
opinions. I tried to be not controversial - but it is a wiki - if you
don't agree then you can edit it and make it more acceptable for you.
I am especially waiting for people with opinions on the REST and
browser REST part - I have got much knowledge in that area.
Cheers,
Zbigniew
On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 2:38 AM, luke saunders <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have started to write a Catalyst base controller for REST style CRUD
> via DBIC. I have noticed that a number of other people have been
> working on or are thinking about working on something similar, most
> notabley J. Shirley who seems to be creating
> Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC::Item
> (http://dev.catalystframework.org/svnweb/Catalyst/browse/Catalyst-Controller-REST-DBIC-Item/)
> and some chaps from a recent thread on this list (entitled
> "Dispatching with Chained vs HTTP method").
>
> Ideally I would like to merge J. Shirley's effort into mine (or visa
> versa) along with anything that anyone else has. Basically I want to
> avoid ending up with a load of modules that all do the same thing.
>
> My effort is heavily based on something mst wrote a while ago, and
> since then I've ended up writing something very similar for every
> project I've worked on which indicates it's worth OSing. Essentially
> it is used like so:
>
> package MyApp::Controller::API::REST::CD;
>
> use base qw/Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC/;
>
> ...
>
> __PACKAGE__->config
>( action => { setup => { PathPart => 'cd', Chained =>
> '/api/rest/rest_base' } },
> class => 'RestTestDB::CD',
> create_requires => ['artist', 'title', 'year' ],
> update_allows => ['title', 'year']
> );
>
> And this gets you the following endpoints to fire requests at:
>/api/rest/cd/create
>/api/rest/cd/id/[cdid]/update
>/api/rest/cd/id/[cdid]/delete
>/api/rest/cd/id/[cdid]/add_to_rel/[relation]
>/api/rest/cd/id/[cdid]/remove_from_rel/[relation]
>
> The full source is here:
> http://lukesaunders.me.uk/dists/Catalyst-Controller-REST-DBIC-1.00.tar.gz
>
> If you have a few moments please have a look, especially if you are
> working on something similar. Today I even wrote a test suite which
> has a test app and is probably the best place to look to see what it
> does.
>
> Note that it lacks:
> - list and view type methods which dump objects to JSON (or whatever)
> - clever validation - it should validate based on the DBIC column
> definitions but it doesn't
> - any auth - not sure if it should or not, but it's possible
>
> Also it doesn't distinguish between POST, PUT, DELETE and GET HTTP
> requests favouring instead entirely separate endpoints, but that's up
> for discussion.
>
> So, J. Shirley, do you have any interest in a merge? And others, do
> you have ideas and would you like to contribute?
>
> Thanks,
> Luke.
>
> ___
> List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk
> Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
> Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/
> Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
>
--
Zbigniew Lukasiak
http://brudnopis.blogspot.com/
___
List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk
Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/
Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC
On 05/05/2008 02:33 PM, luke saunders wrote: > On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 7:28 PM, Peter Karman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> On 05/05/2008 12:16 PM, J. Shirley wrote: >> >> > >> > The discussions about a better CRUD base class with REST and RPC >> > adapters is obviously the better (best?) solution, but I also think >> > there will be significant disagreement between appropriate URI >> > resource conventions (as my exchange with zby is an example of.) >> >> As has been mentioned before, there is an existing REST + CRUD >> implementation already on CPAN: >> >> http://search.cpan.org/dist/CatalystX-CRUD/lib/CatalystX/CRUD/REST.pm >> > > Out of interest, why did you not use Catalyst::Controller::REST here? > A few reasons. One, the CRUD::REST primary design goal is to allow you to simply change your @ISA list in order to switch from RPC to REST style URIs. If you are already using a CX::CRUD::Controller-based class, you just put CX::CRUD::REST at the front of your @ISA list and voila. That goal would have required a bit more method aliasing and other hackery in order to support the *_VERB API in C::C::REST. Two, the C::C::REST module (and related Action class) have a lot of support for automatic serialization. CX::CRUD is completely agnostic about response type. Maybe it shouldn't be. But it is. Three, C::C::REST does not have "real-world" browser HTTP use in mind, as REST::ForBrowsers does. That's not bad; it's just more "pure" imo. CX::CRUD tries to support both, and as of yesterday, svn has support for the 'x-tunneled-method' param like REST::ForBrowsers does. Four, I didn't need the overhead. :) Having said all that, I expect that C::C::REST could work well with CX::CRUD::REST, and I'd love to see a patch that implements it, bearing in mind the points above. -- Peter Karman . [EMAIL PROTECTED] . http://peknet.com/ ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 11:36 PM, luke saunders <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> > > To me the /foo/{token} URI is only acceptable if it is understood that
> > > no further custom object level URIs can then be added
> > > (/foo/{token}/disable for example) and that lookup can only ever be by
> > > {token} rather than {name} or something else. For REST I can see that
> > > this is possible but I do feel that putting something between the base
> > > and the token to clearly identify it as object level is generally the
> > > safest option.
> >
> > I like to map my URLs out in a definitive hierarchy. If people want
> > an implicit create action, a /foo/-/create looks better to me than
> > having /foo/create, because I have the level of /foo to be the plural,
> > /foo/{id} to be the singular (in a simple CRUD example).
> > /foo/-/create is fine, because you can have a rule that "-" is never
> > an acceptable record identifier.
>
> I think that's a pretty reasonable suggestion. It doesn't solve the
> different object lookup methods point, but I think it's reasonable for
> that to justify a subclass.
>
> However, I do still have a nagging feeling that having /foo/create and
> /foo/-/{token} is preferable because it's easier to not make an action
> with a PathPart of "-" than it is to not have a record whose identifer
> is "-". But I accept that your method would mean that the "-" is only
> seen if you want non-standard methods.
How about /foo/instance/{token} ? This way it would be clear that
'foo' is just the name of the object class and that the object for
REST operations is in /foo/instance/{token}.
--
Zbigniew Lukasiak
http://brudnopis.blogspot.com/
___
List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk
Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/
Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC
On May 5, 2008, at 2:36 PM, luke saunders wrote:
I think that's fine.
Now, I do vote against having an explicit create action, since "POST
/foo" (or "POST /foo/{token}") seems to be a more reasonable create
action.
Agreed :-)
This doesn't strictly seem REST but I do a find_or_create on these,
using
a non-pk, unlikely name field like "__new__", or even an illegal name
like
"" (illegal at App level, not Model) so that I don't get a stack of
unused
records. Then redirect a GET to the /foo/{created_or_found_token}
I'd shy away from any implementation where a user (or an agent) could
just pound away at a POST-point and fill up the DB with useless,
abandoned records.
-Ashley
___
List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk
Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/
Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 9:29 PM, J. Shirley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 1:10 PM, luke saunders <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 6:16 PM, J. Shirley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 9:51 AM, luke saunders <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 5:19 PM, J. Shirley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 8:18 AM, Andrew Rodland <[EMAIL
> PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > > On Monday 05 May 2008 09:50:08 am J. Shirley wrote:
> > > > > > > On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 4:31 AM, Matt S Trout <[EMAIL
> PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Sun, May 04, 2008 at 09:06:30AM -0700, J. Shirley
> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I fail to see how whether the PK is the lookup key or not
> has any
> > > > > > > > relevance at all to the original point, which was "your
> lookup key and
> > > > > > > > names of actions might clash so it can be nice to have
> an extra path
> > > > > > > > component such as 'id' for the lookup part to
> disambiguate".
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Because I'm talking about REST and a verb in the URI
> doesn't need to be
> > > > > > > there.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But those nouns you're talking about aren't verbs at all.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Andrew
> > > > >
> > > > > How is /create, /edit or /delete not a verb?
> > > > > My argument is separate to the /create is valid in the
> /foo/{token}
> > > > > bit. I'm saying that /foo/create is silly to have in the first
> place ...
> > > >
> > > > Okay, let me clear this up. Originally the plan was to have a
> > > > centralised REST-style action which dispatched POST/PUT/GET/DELETE
> > > > requests to the appropriate actions while also providing RPC-style
> > > > verb actions as an alternative for use if the client didn't properly
> > > > support the REST request methods. Having listened to discussion in
> > > > this thread I think it would be better to make the module pure REST
> > > > and then provide the RPC alternative through a subclass, perhaps
> also
> > > > integrating Catalyst::Request::REST::ForBrowsers into the REST
> version
> > > > as suggested.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > If you apply actual REST principles, you don't have such
> nonsense.
> > > > > But again, as I said, this is if you are working with REST. If
> REST
> > > > > doesn't fit your application model, don't use it. Just don't
> name
> > > > > things REST when they are really CRUD.
> > > >
> > > > Why can't CRUD be RESTful?
> > > >
> > > > In fact my revised plan is to glue together a base REST module and a
> > > > base CRUD module and add the list method discussed somewhere else in
> > > > this thread to provide a complete default RESTful module. Ideally
> the
> > > > REST base module could be swapped for an RPC style base module to
> > > > easily provide an RPC alternative of the same thing.
> > > >
> > >
> > > REST and CRUD are not mutually exclusive, but implementations can be.
> > >
> > > When I see things like /book/create, /book/1/edit I see CRUD (or RPC)
> > > but not REST. REST also doesn't have to be CRUD. I have a REST
> > > application that is more CR. It just posts immutable records and
> > > provides findability on those records.
> > >
> > > The discussions about a better CRUD base class with REST and RPC
> > > adapters is obviously the better (best?) solution, but I also think
> > > there will be significant disagreement between appropriate URI
> > > resource conventions (as my exchange with zby is an example of.) I
> > > haven't had enough time to actually proffer any code, but since this
> > > is a central focus of my development as late I'm very opinionated in
> > > these matters :)
> >
> > I think that the /foo/{token} vs /foo/id/{token} is the only point of
> > contention. And it would definitely be nice if an agreement could be
> > reached on this. Indeed, if I do develop this further it would make
> > sense if the REST base class is your own
> > Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC::Item.
>
> If people are ok with the verbs being in the URL as a sacrifice to
> broken browsers, agreed :)
I think the consensus is probably the opposite. I already agreed that
the verbs shouldn't be in the REST module but there should be an RPC
variant.
> I'm going to be rounding out the tests for my work, and I'm giving a
> talk on it at YAPC::Asia. It's mostly just my thoughts on how things
> go, but the work is from a web-services point of view, with some
> browser views. I'll post my slides up (and there may be video fo the
> talk) afterwards.
Nice.
> > To me the /foo/{token} URI is only acceptable if it is understood that
> > no further custom object level URIs ca
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC
On 05/05/2008 03:29 PM, J. Shirley wrote:
>
> My vote is hierarchy like:
> /foo
>/{token} # Can be pk1 if you so desire
>/- # - is never acceptable as an identifier
> /create # if you want an empty action here
>
> Now, I do vote against having an explicit create action, since "POST
> /foo" (or "POST /foo/{token}") seems to be a more reasonable create
> action.
fwiw, CX::CRUD::REST uses:
http://search.cpan.org/~karman/CatalystX-CRUD-0.25/lib/CatalystX/CRUD/REST.pm#SYNOPSIS
I use 0 (zero) as my reserved PK value since seq PKs start at 1 and zero
evaluates as
false in Perl.
my ($self, $c, $oid) = @_;
if (!$oid) {
# could be absent or zero, either is fine
# ...
}
Also, I adopted drolsky's suggestion of /create_form instead of /create in
order to keep
the RESTful no-verb style URIs.
--
Peter Karman . [EMAIL PROTECTED] . http://peknet.com/
___
List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk
Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/
Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 1:10 PM, luke saunders <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 6:16 PM, J. Shirley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 9:51 AM, luke saunders <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 5:19 PM, J. Shirley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 8:18 AM, Andrew Rodland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > > > > On Monday 05 May 2008 09:50:08 am J. Shirley wrote:
> > > > > > On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 4:31 AM, Matt S Trout <[EMAIL
> PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > > > On Sun, May 04, 2008 at 09:06:30AM -0700, J. Shirley wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > > I fail to see how whether the PK is the lookup key or not
> has any
> > > > > > > relevance at all to the original point, which was "your
> lookup key and
> > > > > > > names of actions might clash so it can be nice to have an
> extra path
> > > > > > > component such as 'id' for the lookup part to disambiguate".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Because I'm talking about REST and a verb in the URI doesn't
> need to be
> > > > > > there.
> > > > >
> > > > > But those nouns you're talking about aren't verbs at all.
> > > > >
> > > > > Andrew
> > > >
> > > > How is /create, /edit or /delete not a verb?
> > > > My argument is separate to the /create is valid in the /foo/{token}
> > > > bit. I'm saying that /foo/create is silly to have in the first
> place ...
> > >
> > > Okay, let me clear this up. Originally the plan was to have a
> > > centralised REST-style action which dispatched POST/PUT/GET/DELETE
> > > requests to the appropriate actions while also providing RPC-style
> > > verb actions as an alternative for use if the client didn't properly
> > > support the REST request methods. Having listened to discussion in
> > > this thread I think it would be better to make the module pure REST
> > > and then provide the RPC alternative through a subclass, perhaps also
> > > integrating Catalyst::Request::REST::ForBrowsers into the REST version
> > > as suggested.
> > >
> > >
> > > > If you apply actual REST principles, you don't have such nonsense.
> > > > But again, as I said, this is if you are working with REST. If REST
> > > > doesn't fit your application model, don't use it. Just don't name
> > > > things REST when they are really CRUD.
> > >
> > > Why can't CRUD be RESTful?
> > >
> > > In fact my revised plan is to glue together a base REST module and a
> > > base CRUD module and add the list method discussed somewhere else in
> > > this thread to provide a complete default RESTful module. Ideally the
> > > REST base module could be swapped for an RPC style base module to
> > > easily provide an RPC alternative of the same thing.
> > >
> >
> > REST and CRUD are not mutually exclusive, but implementations can be.
> >
> > When I see things like /book/create, /book/1/edit I see CRUD (or RPC)
> > but not REST. REST also doesn't have to be CRUD. I have a REST
> > application that is more CR. It just posts immutable records and
> > provides findability on those records.
> >
> > The discussions about a better CRUD base class with REST and RPC
> > adapters is obviously the better (best?) solution, but I also think
> > there will be significant disagreement between appropriate URI
> > resource conventions (as my exchange with zby is an example of.) I
> > haven't had enough time to actually proffer any code, but since this
> > is a central focus of my development as late I'm very opinionated in
> > these matters :)
>
> I think that the /foo/{token} vs /foo/id/{token} is the only point of
> contention. And it would definitely be nice if an agreement could be
> reached on this. Indeed, if I do develop this further it would make
> sense if the REST base class is your own
> Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC::Item.
If people are ok with the verbs being in the URL as a sacrifice to
broken browsers, agreed :)
I'm going to be rounding out the tests for my work, and I'm giving a
talk on it at YAPC::Asia. It's mostly just my thoughts on how things
go, but the work is from a web-services point of view, with some
browser views. I'll post my slides up (and there may be video fo the
talk) afterwards.
> To me the /foo/{token} URI is only acceptable if it is understood that
> no further custom object level URIs can then be added
> (/foo/{token}/disable for example) and that lookup can only ever be by
> {token} rather than {name} or something else. For REST I can see that
> this is possible but I do feel that putting something between the base
> and the token to clearly identify it as object level is generally the
> safest option.
I like to map my URLs out in a definitive hierarchy. If people want
an implicit create action, a /foo/-/create looks better to me than
having /foo/create, because I hav
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 6:16 PM, J. Shirley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 9:51 AM, luke saunders <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 5:19 PM, J. Shirley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 8:18 AM, Andrew Rodland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > > > On Monday 05 May 2008 09:50:08 am J. Shirley wrote:
> > > > > On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 4:31 AM, Matt S Trout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > > > > > On Sun, May 04, 2008 at 09:06:30AM -0700, J. Shirley wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > > I fail to see how whether the PK is the lookup key or not has
> any
> > > > > > relevance at all to the original point, which was "your lookup
> key and
> > > > > > names of actions might clash so it can be nice to have an
> extra path
> > > > > > component such as 'id' for the lookup part to disambiguate".
> > > > >
> > > > > Because I'm talking about REST and a verb in the URI doesn't need
> to be
> > > > > there.
> > > >
> > > > But those nouns you're talking about aren't verbs at all.
> > > >
> > > > Andrew
> > >
> > > How is /create, /edit or /delete not a verb?
> > > My argument is separate to the /create is valid in the /foo/{token}
> > > bit. I'm saying that /foo/create is silly to have in the first place
> ...
> >
> > Okay, let me clear this up. Originally the plan was to have a
> > centralised REST-style action which dispatched POST/PUT/GET/DELETE
> > requests to the appropriate actions while also providing RPC-style
> > verb actions as an alternative for use if the client didn't properly
> > support the REST request methods. Having listened to discussion in
> > this thread I think it would be better to make the module pure REST
> > and then provide the RPC alternative through a subclass, perhaps also
> > integrating Catalyst::Request::REST::ForBrowsers into the REST version
> > as suggested.
> >
> >
> > > If you apply actual REST principles, you don't have such nonsense.
> > > But again, as I said, this is if you are working with REST. If REST
> > > doesn't fit your application model, don't use it. Just don't name
> > > things REST when they are really CRUD.
> >
> > Why can't CRUD be RESTful?
> >
> > In fact my revised plan is to glue together a base REST module and a
> > base CRUD module and add the list method discussed somewhere else in
> > this thread to provide a complete default RESTful module. Ideally the
> > REST base module could be swapped for an RPC style base module to
> > easily provide an RPC alternative of the same thing.
> >
>
> REST and CRUD are not mutually exclusive, but implementations can be.
>
> When I see things like /book/create, /book/1/edit I see CRUD (or RPC)
> but not REST. REST also doesn't have to be CRUD. I have a REST
> application that is more CR. It just posts immutable records and
> provides findability on those records.
>
> The discussions about a better CRUD base class with REST and RPC
> adapters is obviously the better (best?) solution, but I also think
> there will be significant disagreement between appropriate URI
> resource conventions (as my exchange with zby is an example of.) I
> haven't had enough time to actually proffer any code, but since this
> is a central focus of my development as late I'm very opinionated in
> these matters :)
I think that the /foo/{token} vs /foo/id/{token} is the only point of
contention. And it would definitely be nice if an agreement could be
reached on this. Indeed, if I do develop this further it would make
sense if the REST base class is your own
Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC::Item.
To me the /foo/{token} URI is only acceptable if it is understood that
no further custom object level URIs can then be added
(/foo/{token}/disable for example) and that lookup can only ever be by
{token} rather than {name} or something else. For REST I can see that
this is possible but I do feel that putting something between the base
and the token to clearly identify it as object level is generally the
safest option.
Peter made a fair point that if you don't like it you can subclass and
change, but agreeing on a best practice and making that default is
obviously desirable.
> I just want to be an advocate of standards and not slip into the
> "Internet Explorer Development Methodology". Eventually browsers will
> support this stuff, in the mean time, using strict REST makes
> webservices so much easier.
>
>
>
> ___
> List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk
> Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
> Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/
> Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
>
___
List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk
Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
Searchable archive: ht
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 7:28 PM, Peter Karman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On 05/05/2008 12:16 PM, J. Shirley wrote: > > > > > The discussions about a better CRUD base class with REST and RPC > > adapters is obviously the better (best?) solution, but I also think > > there will be significant disagreement between appropriate URI > > resource conventions (as my exchange with zby is an example of.) > > As has been mentioned before, there is an existing REST + CRUD > implementation already on CPAN: > > http://search.cpan.org/dist/CatalystX-CRUD/lib/CatalystX/CRUD/REST.pm > Out of interest, why did you not use Catalyst::Controller::REST here? > It definitely has URI styles in place already, though overriding fetch() to > chain to a > different root (like /id instead of /) seems trivial to me. > > There is also work started on a DBIC adapter, and existing model stores in > place already > for RDBO and filesystem (LDAP is on my TODO list). SVN is here: > > http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/repos/Catalyst/CatalystX-CRUD/ > > I hope to push a new release of CX::CRUD soon that will support the > 'x-tunneled-method' > syntax of drolsky's REST::ForBrowsers in addition to the '_http_method' > syntax of prior > CX::CRUD::REST releases. > > Please, consider building on existing code like CX::CRUD and/or suggesting > changes to the > current implementation, rather than starting a new project. There are > already too many > CRUD-style Catalyst modules on CPAN imho. > > -- > Peter Karman . [EMAIL PROTECTED] . http://peknet.com/ > > > > > ___ > List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk > Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst > Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ > Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/ > ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 11:28 AM, Peter Karman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On 05/05/2008 12:16 PM, J. Shirley wrote: > > > > > The discussions about a better CRUD base class with REST and RPC > > adapters is obviously the better (best?) solution, but I also think > > there will be significant disagreement between appropriate URI > > resource conventions (as my exchange with zby is an example of.) > > As has been mentioned before, there is an existing REST + CRUD > implementation already on CPAN: > > http://search.cpan.org/dist/CatalystX-CRUD/lib/CatalystX/CRUD/REST.pm > > It definitely has URI styles in place already, though overriding fetch() to > chain to a > different root (like /id instead of /) seems trivial to me. > > There is also work started on a DBIC adapter, and existing model stores in > place already > for RDBO and filesystem (LDAP is on my TODO list). SVN is here: > > http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/repos/Catalyst/CatalystX-CRUD/ > > I hope to push a new release of CX::CRUD soon that will support the > 'x-tunneled-method' > syntax of drolsky's REST::ForBrowsers in addition to the '_http_method' > syntax of prior > CX::CRUD::REST releases. > > Please, consider building on existing code like CX::CRUD and/or suggesting > changes to the > current implementation, rather than starting a new project. There are > already too many > CRUD-style Catalyst modules on CPAN imho. > > -- > Peter Karman . [EMAIL PROTECTED] . http://peknet.com/ > > karpet++ ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC
On 05/05/2008 12:16 PM, J. Shirley wrote: > > The discussions about a better CRUD base class with REST and RPC > adapters is obviously the better (best?) solution, but I also think > there will be significant disagreement between appropriate URI > resource conventions (as my exchange with zby is an example of.) As has been mentioned before, there is an existing REST + CRUD implementation already on CPAN: http://search.cpan.org/dist/CatalystX-CRUD/lib/CatalystX/CRUD/REST.pm It definitely has URI styles in place already, though overriding fetch() to chain to a different root (like /id instead of /) seems trivial to me. There is also work started on a DBIC adapter, and existing model stores in place already for RDBO and filesystem (LDAP is on my TODO list). SVN is here: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/repos/Catalyst/CatalystX-CRUD/ I hope to push a new release of CX::CRUD soon that will support the 'x-tunneled-method' syntax of drolsky's REST::ForBrowsers in addition to the '_http_method' syntax of prior CX::CRUD::REST releases. Please, consider building on existing code like CX::CRUD and/or suggesting changes to the current implementation, rather than starting a new project. There are already too many CRUD-style Catalyst modules on CPAN imho. -- Peter Karman . [EMAIL PROTECTED] . http://peknet.com/ ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 9:51 AM, luke saunders <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 5:19 PM, J. Shirley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 8:18 AM, Andrew Rodland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > On Monday 05 May 2008 09:50:08 am J. Shirley wrote:
> > > > On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 4:31 AM, Matt S Trout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > > > > On Sun, May 04, 2008 at 09:06:30AM -0700, J. Shirley wrote:
> > >
> > > > > I fail to see how whether the PK is the lookup key or not has any
> > > > > relevance at all to the original point, which was "your lookup
> key and
> > > > > names of actions might clash so it can be nice to have an extra
> path
> > > > > component such as 'id' for the lookup part to disambiguate".
> > > >
> > > > Because I'm talking about REST and a verb in the URI doesn't need to
> be
> > > > there.
> > >
> > > But those nouns you're talking about aren't verbs at all.
> > >
> > > Andrew
> >
> > How is /create, /edit or /delete not a verb?
> > My argument is separate to the /create is valid in the /foo/{token}
> > bit. I'm saying that /foo/create is silly to have in the first place ...
>
> Okay, let me clear this up. Originally the plan was to have a
> centralised REST-style action which dispatched POST/PUT/GET/DELETE
> requests to the appropriate actions while also providing RPC-style
> verb actions as an alternative for use if the client didn't properly
> support the REST request methods. Having listened to discussion in
> this thread I think it would be better to make the module pure REST
> and then provide the RPC alternative through a subclass, perhaps also
> integrating Catalyst::Request::REST::ForBrowsers into the REST version
> as suggested.
>
>
> > If you apply actual REST principles, you don't have such nonsense.
> > But again, as I said, this is if you are working with REST. If REST
> > doesn't fit your application model, don't use it. Just don't name
> > things REST when they are really CRUD.
>
> Why can't CRUD be RESTful?
>
> In fact my revised plan is to glue together a base REST module and a
> base CRUD module and add the list method discussed somewhere else in
> this thread to provide a complete default RESTful module. Ideally the
> REST base module could be swapped for an RPC style base module to
> easily provide an RPC alternative of the same thing.
>
REST and CRUD are not mutually exclusive, but implementations can be.
When I see things like /book/create, /book/1/edit I see CRUD (or RPC)
but not REST. REST also doesn't have to be CRUD. I have a REST
application that is more CR. It just posts immutable records and
provides findability on those records.
The discussions about a better CRUD base class with REST and RPC
adapters is obviously the better (best?) solution, but I also think
there will be significant disagreement between appropriate URI
resource conventions (as my exchange with zby is an example of.) I
haven't had enough time to actually proffer any code, but since this
is a central focus of my development as late I'm very opinionated in
these matters :)
I just want to be an advocate of standards and not slip into the
"Internet Explorer Development Methodology". Eventually browsers will
support this stuff, in the mean time, using strict REST makes
webservices so much easier.
___
List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk
Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/
Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 10:02 AM, Matt S Trout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Mon, May 05, 2008 at 07:50:08AM -0700, J. Shirley wrote:
> > On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 4:31 AM, Matt S Trout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > On Sun, May 04, 2008 at 09:06:30AM -0700, J. Shirley wrote:
> > > > On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 8:52 AM, Zbigniew Lukasiak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Sorry but I don't understand your point - so maybe first I'll
> restate
> > > > > mine. If you have primary key in the database that is of type
> varchar
> > > > > (or char or ...) then 'create' is a legitimage value for that
> primary
> > > > > key.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you just don't like the string 'id' in the URI - then I have not
> > > > > any preference to that - it can be /foo/primary_key/ for me.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > My point is that you do not have to use the primary key as the record
> > > > lookup identifier.
> > > >
> > > > A user has no control over the record lookup identifier (ID) when you
> > > > do things like /user/{primary_key} (or /user/id/{primary_key}, which
> > > > is just converting named params to positional in a weird way). In a
> > > > lot of cases, the record lookup identifier makes more sense to be
> > > > somewhat bound to the user. As an example, lets say registering for a
> > > > web service where you have to have a unique login:
> > > > POST /user/jshirley
> > > > ---
> > > > login: jshirley
> > > > first_name: Jay
> > > > last_name: Shirley
> > > > ...
> > > >
> > > > Now, it's a simple check here - does /user/jshirley exist? If so,
> > > > reject the request appropriately. If not, create the user at
> > > > /user/jshirley.
> > > >
> > > > The primary key that the database uses is completely useless to the
> > > > user. /user/1634254 is silly, /user/jshirley is meaningful.
> > >
> > > I fail to see how whether the PK is the lookup key or not has any
> > > relevance at all to the original point, which was "your lookup key and
> > > names of actions might clash so it can be nice to have an extra path
> component
> > > such as 'id' for the lookup part to disambiguate".
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Because I'm talking about REST and a verb in the URI doesn't need to be
> there.
>
> You'd never have a /user/recent or similar URL? I guess if you assume that
> all views onto the collection are done via query parameters, or just
> move that funcationality to /recent-users or similar then it doesn't matter.
>
> But that's a different sort of uglification of the URL; it doesn't get rid
> of it.
>
> And it still doesn't help if you want to allow lookup by more than one
> name so far as I can see.
>
>
Search vs. Browse is separate user actions and deserves separate resource space.
/user implies a single user.
/users implies browsing.
So in this hypothetical case I would probably have a top level
namespace for /browse that had its own hierarchy (since most people
are going to browse more than just people)
/browse/users/recent
But... I also would do /browse/people/recent
Now you have a better (read-only) browse namespace on your site and it
descends into a hierarchy appropriately.
___
List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk
Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/
Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 9:49 AM, Zbigniew Lukasiak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 6:19 PM, J. Shirley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 8:18 AM, Andrew Rodland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > On Monday 05 May 2008 09:50:08 am J. Shirley wrote:
> > > > On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 4:31 AM, Matt S Trout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > > > > On Sun, May 04, 2008 at 09:06:30AM -0700, J. Shirley wrote:
> > >
> > > > > I fail to see how whether the PK is the lookup key or not has any
> > > > > relevance at all to the original point, which was "your lookup
> key and
> > > > > names of actions might clash so it can be nice to have an extra
> path
> > > > > component such as 'id' for the lookup part to disambiguate".
> > > >
> > > > Because I'm talking about REST and a verb in the URI doesn't need to
> be
> > > > there.
> > >
> > > But those nouns you're talking about aren't verbs at all.
> > >
> > > Andrew
> >
> > How is /create, /edit or /delete not a verb?
> >
> > My argument is separate to the /create is valid in the /foo/{token}
> > bit. I'm saying that /foo/create is silly to have in the first place,
> > and the /foo/id/{id} is nothing more than a conversion from named
> > parameters to positional, and ugly.
> >
> > If you apply actual REST principles, you don't have such nonsense.
> > But again, as I said, this is if you are working with REST. If REST
> > doesn't fit your application model, don't use it. Just don't name
> > things REST when they are really CRUD.
>
> The point is about having something that will work as REST for
> automated agents and also work for browsers by some emulation or what
> ever - so you'll have some additional actions on the controller as
> well. Additionally if we really want to make this REST Role (assuming
> Moose Catalyst by that time) - then the user of the library can have
> his own actions. In both way you'll have a clash if we go your way.
>
> Because /foo/id/{id} looks like a parameter - which is the only
> argument agains it and is just a bit of pedantry on your side - you
> would allow for broken logic?
>
That's just one argument that is most obvious. The other argument is
that it adds additional entry points into an entity that you have to
keep in sync.
If you have /foo/id/{id} and /foo/name/{name} that are two paths to
the same entity, but {name} is not immutable you have broken
navigation at some point (bookmarks, etc). So you have two immutable
entities for the same thing? I fail to see why that works. Which
leads into my main argument that using the primary key as the record
lookup identifier (in many cases) is simply bad design.
This strategy is redundancy of the oddest form to me, and it yields
more complications down the road as applications become more complex.
If you remove the redundancy, and each object has a well-defined
identifier, a POST to /foo will create a new entity which redirects to
/foo/{identifier}. It's easy to duplicate functionality that a POST
to /foo/{identifier} works the same as a POST to just /foo, and can
generate $identifier. I fail to see why a /create action needs to
exist in the first place on /foo.
Now, for browser-compatibility methods it isn't a bad thing having
/foo/{identifier}/(edit|delete). The business with /foo/id/{ident}
there so that you don't conflict with a "/create" action on /foo is
just silly, and a sign of inadequate forethought into your resource
structure. But again, this has very little to do with REST and more
to do with a sane URI structure (although not having an explicit
/create action is more on the RESTful side, I never have encountered
an issue having "POST /foo" handle item creation).
So, yes, it is pedantic but I don't view it as broken logic. I view
it as tidy logic that doesn't employ the use of URI hacks to get
around browser deficiencies.
-J
___
List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk
Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/
Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC
On Mon, May 05, 2008 at 07:50:08AM -0700, J. Shirley wrote:
> On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 4:31 AM, Matt S Trout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > On Sun, May 04, 2008 at 09:06:30AM -0700, J. Shirley wrote:
> > > On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 8:52 AM, Zbigniew Lukasiak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Sorry but I don't understand your point - so maybe first I'll restate
> > > > mine. If you have primary key in the database that is of type varchar
> > > > (or char or ...) then 'create' is a legitimage value for that primary
> > > > key.
> > > >
> > > > If you just don't like the string 'id' in the URI - then I have not
> > > > any preference to that - it can be /foo/primary_key/ for me.
> > > >
> > >
> > > My point is that you do not have to use the primary key as the record
> > > lookup identifier.
> > >
> > > A user has no control over the record lookup identifier (ID) when you
> > > do things like /user/{primary_key} (or /user/id/{primary_key}, which
> > > is just converting named params to positional in a weird way). In a
> > > lot of cases, the record lookup identifier makes more sense to be
> > > somewhat bound to the user. As an example, lets say registering for a
> > > web service where you have to have a unique login:
> > > POST /user/jshirley
> > > ---
> > > login: jshirley
> > > first_name: Jay
> > > last_name: Shirley
> > > ...
> > >
> > > Now, it's a simple check here - does /user/jshirley exist? If so,
> > > reject the request appropriately. If not, create the user at
> > > /user/jshirley.
> > >
> > > The primary key that the database uses is completely useless to the
> > > user. /user/1634254 is silly, /user/jshirley is meaningful.
> >
> > I fail to see how whether the PK is the lookup key or not has any
> > relevance at all to the original point, which was "your lookup key and
> > names of actions might clash so it can be nice to have an extra path
> > component
> > such as 'id' for the lookup part to disambiguate".
> >
> >
>
> Because I'm talking about REST and a verb in the URI doesn't need to be there.
You'd never have a /user/recent or similar URL? I guess if you assume that
all views onto the collection are done via query parameters, or just
move that funcationality to /recent-users or similar then it doesn't matter.
But that's a different sort of uglification of the URL; it doesn't get rid
of it.
And it still doesn't help if you want to allow lookup by more than one
name so far as I can see.
--
Matt S Trout Need help with your Catalyst or DBIx::Class project?
Technical Directorhttp://www.shadowcat.co.uk/catalyst/
Shadowcat Systems Ltd. Want a managed development or deployment platform?
http://chainsawblues.vox.com/http://www.shadowcat.co.uk/servers/
___
List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk
Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/
Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 5:19 PM, J. Shirley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 8:18 AM, Andrew Rodland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Monday 05 May 2008 09:50:08 am J. Shirley wrote:
> > > On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 4:31 AM, Matt S Trout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > On Sun, May 04, 2008 at 09:06:30AM -0700, J. Shirley wrote:
> >
> > > > I fail to see how whether the PK is the lookup key or not has any
> > > > relevance at all to the original point, which was "your lookup key
> and
> > > > names of actions might clash so it can be nice to have an extra path
> > > > component such as 'id' for the lookup part to disambiguate".
> > >
> > > Because I'm talking about REST and a verb in the URI doesn't need to be
> > > there.
> >
> > But those nouns you're talking about aren't verbs at all.
> >
> > Andrew
>
> How is /create, /edit or /delete not a verb?
> My argument is separate to the /create is valid in the /foo/{token}
> bit. I'm saying that /foo/create is silly to have in the first place ...
Okay, let me clear this up. Originally the plan was to have a
centralised REST-style action which dispatched POST/PUT/GET/DELETE
requests to the appropriate actions while also providing RPC-style
verb actions as an alternative for use if the client didn't properly
support the REST request methods. Having listened to discussion in
this thread I think it would be better to make the module pure REST
and then provide the RPC alternative through a subclass, perhaps also
integrating Catalyst::Request::REST::ForBrowsers into the REST version
as suggested.
> If you apply actual REST principles, you don't have such nonsense.
> But again, as I said, this is if you are working with REST. If REST
> doesn't fit your application model, don't use it. Just don't name
> things REST when they are really CRUD.
Why can't CRUD be RESTful?
In fact my revised plan is to glue together a base REST module and a
base CRUD module and add the list method discussed somewhere else in
this thread to provide a complete default RESTful module. Ideally the
REST base module could be swapped for an RPC style base module to
easily provide an RPC alternative of the same thing.
___
List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk
Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/
Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 6:19 PM, J. Shirley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 8:18 AM, Andrew Rodland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Monday 05 May 2008 09:50:08 am J. Shirley wrote:
> > > On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 4:31 AM, Matt S Trout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > On Sun, May 04, 2008 at 09:06:30AM -0700, J. Shirley wrote:
> >
> > > > I fail to see how whether the PK is the lookup key or not has any
> > > > relevance at all to the original point, which was "your lookup key
> and
> > > > names of actions might clash so it can be nice to have an extra path
> > > > component such as 'id' for the lookup part to disambiguate".
> > >
> > > Because I'm talking about REST and a verb in the URI doesn't need to be
> > > there.
> >
> > But those nouns you're talking about aren't verbs at all.
> >
> > Andrew
>
> How is /create, /edit or /delete not a verb?
>
> My argument is separate to the /create is valid in the /foo/{token}
> bit. I'm saying that /foo/create is silly to have in the first place,
> and the /foo/id/{id} is nothing more than a conversion from named
> parameters to positional, and ugly.
>
> If you apply actual REST principles, you don't have such nonsense.
> But again, as I said, this is if you are working with REST. If REST
> doesn't fit your application model, don't use it. Just don't name
> things REST when they are really CRUD.
The point is about having something that will work as REST for
automated agents and also work for browsers by some emulation or what
ever - so you'll have some additional actions on the controller as
well. Additionally if we really want to make this REST Role (assuming
Moose Catalyst by that time) - then the user of the library can have
his own actions. In both way you'll have a clash if we go your way.
Because /foo/id/{id} looks like a parameter - which is the only
argument agains it and is just a bit of pedantry on your side - you
would allow for broken logic?
--
Zbigniew Lukasiak
http://brudnopis.blogspot.com/
___
List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk
Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/
Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 8:18 AM, Andrew Rodland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Monday 05 May 2008 09:50:08 am J. Shirley wrote:
> > On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 4:31 AM, Matt S Trout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > On Sun, May 04, 2008 at 09:06:30AM -0700, J. Shirley wrote:
>
> > > I fail to see how whether the PK is the lookup key or not has any
> > > relevance at all to the original point, which was "your lookup key and
> > > names of actions might clash so it can be nice to have an extra path
> > > component such as 'id' for the lookup part to disambiguate".
> >
> > Because I'm talking about REST and a verb in the URI doesn't need to be
> > there.
>
> But those nouns you're talking about aren't verbs at all.
>
> Andrew
How is /create, /edit or /delete not a verb?
My argument is separate to the /create is valid in the /foo/{token}
bit. I'm saying that /foo/create is silly to have in the first place,
and the /foo/id/{id} is nothing more than a conversion from named
parameters to positional, and ugly.
If you apply actual REST principles, you don't have such nonsense.
But again, as I said, this is if you are working with REST. If REST
doesn't fit your application model, don't use it. Just don't name
things REST when they are really CRUD.
___
List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk
Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/
Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC
On Monday 05 May 2008 09:50:08 am J. Shirley wrote: > On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 4:31 AM, Matt S Trout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Sun, May 04, 2008 at 09:06:30AM -0700, J. Shirley wrote: > > I fail to see how whether the PK is the lookup key or not has any > > relevance at all to the original point, which was "your lookup key and > > names of actions might clash so it can be nice to have an extra path > > component such as 'id' for the lookup part to disambiguate". > > Because I'm talking about REST and a verb in the URI doesn't need to be > there. But those nouns you're talking about aren't verbs at all. Andrew ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 4:31 AM, Matt S Trout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Sun, May 04, 2008 at 09:06:30AM -0700, J. Shirley wrote:
> > On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 8:52 AM, Zbigniew Lukasiak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Sorry but I don't understand your point - so maybe first I'll restate
> > > mine. If you have primary key in the database that is of type varchar
> > > (or char or ...) then 'create' is a legitimage value for that primary
> > > key.
> > >
> > > If you just don't like the string 'id' in the URI - then I have not
> > > any preference to that - it can be /foo/primary_key/ for me.
> > >
> >
> > My point is that you do not have to use the primary key as the record
> > lookup identifier.
> >
> > A user has no control over the record lookup identifier (ID) when you
> > do things like /user/{primary_key} (or /user/id/{primary_key}, which
> > is just converting named params to positional in a weird way). In a
> > lot of cases, the record lookup identifier makes more sense to be
> > somewhat bound to the user. As an example, lets say registering for a
> > web service where you have to have a unique login:
> > POST /user/jshirley
> > ---
> > login: jshirley
> > first_name: Jay
> > last_name: Shirley
> > ...
> >
> > Now, it's a simple check here - does /user/jshirley exist? If so,
> > reject the request appropriately. If not, create the user at
> > /user/jshirley.
> >
> > The primary key that the database uses is completely useless to the
> > user. /user/1634254 is silly, /user/jshirley is meaningful.
>
> I fail to see how whether the PK is the lookup key or not has any
> relevance at all to the original point, which was "your lookup key and
> names of actions might clash so it can be nice to have an extra path
> component
> such as 'id' for the lookup part to disambiguate".
>
>
Because I'm talking about REST and a verb in the URI doesn't need to be there.
If we were talking about RPC, that would be a differently titled
thread and different arguments.
___
List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk
Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/
Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC
On Sun, May 04, 2008 at 09:06:30AM -0700, J. Shirley wrote:
> On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 8:52 AM, Zbigniew Lukasiak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Sorry but I don't understand your point - so maybe first I'll restate
> > mine. If you have primary key in the database that is of type varchar
> > (or char or ...) then 'create' is a legitimage value for that primary
> > key.
> >
> > If you just don't like the string 'id' in the URI - then I have not
> > any preference to that - it can be /foo/primary_key/ for me.
> >
>
> My point is that you do not have to use the primary key as the record
> lookup identifier.
>
> A user has no control over the record lookup identifier (ID) when you
> do things like /user/{primary_key} (or /user/id/{primary_key}, which
> is just converting named params to positional in a weird way). In a
> lot of cases, the record lookup identifier makes more sense to be
> somewhat bound to the user. As an example, lets say registering for a
> web service where you have to have a unique login:
> POST /user/jshirley
> ---
> login: jshirley
> first_name: Jay
> last_name: Shirley
> ...
>
> Now, it's a simple check here - does /user/jshirley exist? If so,
> reject the request appropriately. If not, create the user at
> /user/jshirley.
>
> The primary key that the database uses is completely useless to the
> user. /user/1634254 is silly, /user/jshirley is meaningful.
I fail to see how whether the PK is the lookup key or not has any
relevance at all to the original point, which was "your lookup key and
names of actions might clash so it can be nice to have an extra path component
such as 'id' for the lookup part to disambiguate".
--
Matt S Trout Need help with your Catalyst or DBIx::Class project?
Technical Directorhttp://www.shadowcat.co.uk/catalyst/
Shadowcat Systems Ltd. Want a managed development or deployment platform?
http://chainsawblues.vox.com/http://www.shadowcat.co.uk/servers/
___
List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk
Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/
Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC
On Sun, May 04, 2008 at 09:33:50AM -0700, Steve Atkins wrote: > Part of the problem here might be the wish to avoid a natural > primary key in the database schema, preferring a synthetic > primary key even when there's a perfectly good natural > primary key. > > That's something that I expect to see from the ruby on > rails crowd, not the (presumably more pragmatic) perl folks. Actually, sometimes a synthetic primary key even when there's a perfectly good natural one is important. For e.g. InnoDB always clusters by the PK, so depending on your access patterns it can be a hell of a lot more efficient. Pragmatism is a many-edged sword :) -- Matt S Trout Need help with your Catalyst or DBIx::Class project? Technical Directorhttp://www.shadowcat.co.uk/catalyst/ Shadowcat Systems Ltd. Want a managed development or deployment platform? http://chainsawblues.vox.com/http://www.shadowcat.co.uk/servers/ ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC
Steve Atkins wrote: On May 4, 2008, at 9:02 AM, Christopher Laco wrote: My pet peeve is that /foo/primary_key makes computers happy... but not people. /products/23 /products/ABC-1234 The first is the PK for a product record.. The second is the actual sku for a product... just a unique as the pk...but not the PK itself... Now what does "id" mean in this case? What id your SKU is a numeric just like your PK? Two different and equally useful ways to get at the same resource. If you're talking about an interface where humans know the skus, and computers know the id (restfully and/or remotely).. you need a sane uri: /products/id/ /products/sku/ In the end, I always run into a situation where humans (think marketing SEO pushers who know not of REST) want something other than a true restful uri. Part of the problem here might be the wish to avoid a natural primary key in the database schema, preferring a synthetic primary key even when there's a perfectly good natural primary key. That's something that I expect to see from the ruby on rails crowd, not the (presumably more pragmatic) perl folks. If your SKU is unique, then it's a perfectly good primary key, and having a synthetic numeric primary key isn't necessary. Not really. SKU is unique yes, but it can change (renamed, reconfigured when companies merge, etc) for the same physical product. It's a poor PK for the purposes of joining records to it, but a great key for the purposes of lookup and selling the item. One could argue that UPC is a better key than sku, but that's not very friendly. -=Chris ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC
On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 6:06 PM, J. Shirley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 8:52 AM, Zbigniew Lukasiak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
>
> > Sorry but I don't understand your point - so maybe first I'll restate
> > mine. If you have primary key in the database that is of type varchar
> > (or char or ...) then 'create' is a legitimage value for that primary
> > key.
> >
> > If you just don't like the string 'id' in the URI - then I have not
> > any preference to that - it can be /foo/primary_key/ for me.
> >
>
> My point is that you do not have to use the primary key as the record
> lookup identifier.
>
> A user has no control over the record lookup identifier (ID) when you
> do things like /user/{primary_key} (or /user/id/{primary_key}, which
> is just converting named params to positional in a weird way). In a
> lot of cases, the record lookup identifier makes more sense to be
> somewhat bound to the user. As an example, lets say registering for a
> web service where you have to have a unique login:
> POST /user/jshirley
> ---
> login: jshirley
> first_name: Jay
> last_name: Shirley
> ...
>
> Now, it's a simple check here - does /user/jshirley exist? If so,
> reject the request appropriately. If not, create the user at
> /user/jshirley.
>
> The primary key that the database uses is completely useless to the
> user. /user/1634254 is silly, /user/jshirley is meaningful.
>
> If the ID is generated, that gets a bit trickier but I usually handle
> that with a POST to /user with the data and then let the application
> forward me to the final URL of where the resource exists.
>
> The other reason is that this system breaks when you no longer have
> records tied to a database. As an example, if you use an md5 sum of a
> file as the identifier. /file/1234 doesn't work because it isn't in a
> database under that system (think of a MogileFS cluster or something
> with hash keys rather than primary keys in the conventional sense) -
> instead /file/{md5sum} is used.
>
> In brief summary, over-utilization of primary keys as record lookup
> identifiers ends up diminishing the human readability and
> accessibility of your web service. I'm not trying to win over any
> converts, because I think there is a time and a place for each (even
> in the same application, it just depends upon what each action is
> really doing). If I'm not building something that is REST/webservice
> driven I tend to do the /user/{id or token} (with a simple regex to
> check, and if someone has a login of all numbers then screw 'em) - but
> it's a very different strategy when I work with webservices -- each
> time I always make sure if the record lookup indicator should be the
> primary key, and what cases should it not and then react accordingly.
Then we are talking about two diffrent things. My point is that you
should not have /foo/create and foo/{id or token} - because you mix a
reserverd work 'create' with data, you can never guarantee that the
data, be it primary key or token or whatever, does not contain
'create'.
I do understand that in full REST design you would not have a
'/foo/create/' uri - but if you want to add this REST as an add-on to
a controller you'll still have other methods on the controller that
could conflict with the token/id.
--
Zbigniew Lukasiak
http://brudnopis.blogspot.com/
___
List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk
Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/
Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC
On May 4, 2008, at 9:02 AM, Christopher Laco wrote: My pet peeve is that /foo/primary_key makes computers happy... but not people. /products/23 /products/ABC-1234 The first is the PK for a product record.. The second is the actual sku for a product... just a unique as the pk...but not the PK itself... Now what does "id" mean in this case? What id your SKU is a numeric just like your PK? Two different and equally useful ways to get at the same resource. If you're talking about an interface where humans know the skus, and computers know the id (restfully and/or remotely).. you need a sane uri: /products/id/ /products/sku/ In the end, I always run into a situation where humans (think marketing SEO pushers who know not of REST) want something other than a true restful uri. Part of the problem here might be the wish to avoid a natural primary key in the database schema, preferring a synthetic primary key even when there's a perfectly good natural primary key. That's something that I expect to see from the ruby on rails crowd, not the (presumably more pragmatic) perl folks. If your SKU is unique, then it's a perfectly good primary key, and having a synthetic numeric primary key isn't necessary. (It might be the right choice in some cases, and not in others, but "the primary key is an arbitrary integer" is not a given). Cheers, Steve ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC
On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 2:12 PM, Zbigniew Lukasiak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 1:28 PM, luke saunders <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > I think we can still make it compatible, if we agree on some kind of > > > internal API. > > > > > > > As in make this module compatible with your new module? Perhaps as a > > base class without form generation? > > Yes - I am thinking about something where you have a separate methods > for validating the parameters and updating/creating the object in the > database - so that I could override them in my sub-class. > Yeah, sure. I think the module will provide validation for column types and FK validation, but you can override that if you wish. > > > > > > It is I think quite common convention to use '.' dot for that: > > > > > > param1.some_relation.field_value > > > > > > or > > > > > > some_param.some_multi_relation.1.field_value > > > > > > > Makes sense. I prefer that to the add_to_rel action, especially if > > this is to remain a REST module rather than an RPC module. > > > > It does not bother me if you leave those actions. I might leave them as private actions but if I leave them as public in the REST version I'm going to get shot. > > The piece of functionality I always wanted but didn't see a clean > > solution to was specifying complex conditions to the 'list' action, > > for example only CDs which have a track called 'Badgers', which > > requires specifying a join and a related condition. I wonder if it > > makes sense to represent that this way too. > > > > Well - this is in my plans as well - as search in InstantCRUD :) I am > thinking to base it on the technique I described in my Advent article: > http://catalyst.perl.org/calendar/2007/16 I read your article and it looks ideal, though as you say some method for ordering would be required, probably via some special case query param. Ideally I'd wait for you to implement something along these lines then if you wouldn't mind, pull the general parts upstream. > > -- > > > Zbigniew Lukasiak > http://brudnopis.blogspot.com/ > > ___ > List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk > Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst > Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ > Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/ > ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC
On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 9:02 AM, Christopher Laco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Zbigniew Lukasiak wrote:
>
> > On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 3:54 PM, J. Shirley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 1:52 AM, Zbigniew Lukasiak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > > > On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 7:05 AM, J. Shirley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > > >> > On a side note about REST - REST doesn't mean human readable
> URLs. It
> > > >
> > > > > means representative URLs. The bit about cd/id/{CDID}/ smells
> like
> > > > > named parameters going into positional parameters. What is the
> real
> > > > > difference between cd?id={CDID}&action=delete, aside from
> different
> > > > > characters? Where as with REST, /cd/{id} is a unique identifier
> for
> > > > > that object and hence a full representation.
> > > >
> > > > The problem I see with /cd/{id} is that when you have a primary key
> > > > that is 'create' - this would clash with the 'create' action.
> > > > /cd/id/{id} let's you separate the reserved words from the user
> data.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > A pet peeve of mine is that people seem to have this weird idea that
> > > primary key == id. An id can just be some human readable mechanism to
> > > looking up the item, where as the primary key is what is actually used
> > > by the database to determine the relations.
> > >
> > > They do not have to be the same field but often times they are out of
> > > convenience. In cases like this, they simply shouldn't be though.
> > >
> >
> > Sorry but I don't understand your point - so maybe first I'll restate
> > mine. If you have primary key in the database that is of type varchar
> > (or char or ...) then 'create' is a legitimage value for that primary
> > key.
> >
> > If you just don't like the string 'id' in the URI - then I have not
> > any preference to that - it can be /foo/primary_key/ for me.
> >
>
>
> My pet peeve is that /foo/primary_key makes computers happy... but not
> people.
>
>
> /products/23
> /products/ABC-1234
>
>
> The first is the PK for a product record..
> The second is the actual sku for a product... just a unique as the pk...but
> not the PK itself...
>
>
> Now what does "id" mean in this case?
> What id your SKU is a numeric just like your PK?
>
> Two different and equally useful ways to get at the same resource.
>
> If you're talking about an interface where humans know the skus, and
> computers know the id (restfully and/or remotely).. you need a sane uri:
>
> /products/id/
> /products/sku/
>
> In the end, I always run into a situation where humans (think marketing SEO
> pushers who know not of REST) want something other than a true restful uri.
>
> -=Chris
>
>
>
To be honest, I'd rather see something like /products/-{id} and
/products/{sku}. Simple checks like that make things easy, and the
'-' is inconvenient for a human but then they don't have to type a
(seemingly redundant) /sku at each time.
But also, with an index, a sku lookup should be equal to an id lookup,
so in this particular hypothetical case I would always go with the
sku. If you use DBIC or any other sufficiently sane ORM, you don't
need to ever bother directly with the primary key field, and just do
$obj->relation and be done.
___
List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk
Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/
Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC
On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 8:52 AM, Zbigniew Lukasiak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Sorry but I don't understand your point - so maybe first I'll restate
> mine. If you have primary key in the database that is of type varchar
> (or char or ...) then 'create' is a legitimage value for that primary
> key.
>
> If you just don't like the string 'id' in the URI - then I have not
> any preference to that - it can be /foo/primary_key/ for me.
>
My point is that you do not have to use the primary key as the record
lookup identifier.
A user has no control over the record lookup identifier (ID) when you
do things like /user/{primary_key} (or /user/id/{primary_key}, which
is just converting named params to positional in a weird way). In a
lot of cases, the record lookup identifier makes more sense to be
somewhat bound to the user. As an example, lets say registering for a
web service where you have to have a unique login:
POST /user/jshirley
---
login: jshirley
first_name: Jay
last_name: Shirley
...
Now, it's a simple check here - does /user/jshirley exist? If so,
reject the request appropriately. If not, create the user at
/user/jshirley.
The primary key that the database uses is completely useless to the
user. /user/1634254 is silly, /user/jshirley is meaningful.
If the ID is generated, that gets a bit trickier but I usually handle
that with a POST to /user with the data and then let the application
forward me to the final URL of where the resource exists.
The other reason is that this system breaks when you no longer have
records tied to a database. As an example, if you use an md5 sum of a
file as the identifier. /file/1234 doesn't work because it isn't in a
database under that system (think of a MogileFS cluster or something
with hash keys rather than primary keys in the conventional sense) -
instead /file/{md5sum} is used.
In brief summary, over-utilization of primary keys as record lookup
identifiers ends up diminishing the human readability and
accessibility of your web service. I'm not trying to win over any
converts, because I think there is a time and a place for each (even
in the same application, it just depends upon what each action is
really doing). If I'm not building something that is REST/webservice
driven I tend to do the /user/{id or token} (with a simple regex to
check, and if someone has a login of all numbers then screw 'em) - but
it's a very different strategy when I work with webservices -- each
time I always make sure if the record lookup indicator should be the
primary key, and what cases should it not and then react accordingly.
___
List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk
Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/
Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC
Zbigniew Lukasiak wrote:
On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 3:54 PM, J. Shirley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 1:52 AM, Zbigniew Lukasiak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 7:05 AM, J. Shirley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > On a side note about REST - REST doesn't mean human readable URLs. It
> > means representative URLs. The bit about cd/id/{CDID}/ smells like
> > named parameters going into positional parameters. What is the real
> > difference between cd?id={CDID}&action=delete, aside from different
> > characters? Where as with REST, /cd/{id} is a unique identifier for
> > that object and hence a full representation.
>
> The problem I see with /cd/{id} is that when you have a primary key
> that is 'create' - this would clash with the 'create' action.
> /cd/id/{id} let's you separate the reserved words from the user data.
>
>
A pet peeve of mine is that people seem to have this weird idea that
primary key == id. An id can just be some human readable mechanism to
looking up the item, where as the primary key is what is actually used
by the database to determine the relations.
They do not have to be the same field but often times they are out of
convenience. In cases like this, they simply shouldn't be though.
Sorry but I don't understand your point - so maybe first I'll restate
mine. If you have primary key in the database that is of type varchar
(or char or ...) then 'create' is a legitimage value for that primary
key.
If you just don't like the string 'id' in the URI - then I have not
any preference to that - it can be /foo/primary_key/ for me.
My pet peeve is that /foo/primary_key makes computers happy... but not
people.
/products/23
/products/ABC-1234
The first is the PK for a product record..
The second is the actual sku for a product... just a unique as the
pk...but not the PK itself...
Now what does "id" mean in this case?
What id your SKU is a numeric just like your PK?
Two different and equally useful ways to get at the same resource.
If you're talking about an interface where humans know the skus, and
computers know the id (restfully and/or remotely).. you need a sane uri:
/products/id/
/products/sku/
In the end, I always run into a situation where humans (think marketing
SEO pushers who know not of REST) want something other than a true
restful uri.
-=Chris
___
List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk
Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/
Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC
On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 3:54 PM, J. Shirley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 1:52 AM, Zbigniew Lukasiak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 7:05 AM, J. Shirley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > >> > On a side note about REST - REST doesn't mean human readable URLs.
> > It
> > > means representative URLs. The bit about cd/id/{CDID}/ smells like
> > > named parameters going into positional parameters. What is the real
> > > difference between cd?id={CDID}&action=delete, aside from different
> > > characters? Where as with REST, /cd/{id} is a unique identifier for
> > > that object and hence a full representation.
> >
> > The problem I see with /cd/{id} is that when you have a primary key
> > that is 'create' - this would clash with the 'create' action.
> > /cd/id/{id} let's you separate the reserved words from the user data.
> >
> >
>
> A pet peeve of mine is that people seem to have this weird idea that
> primary key == id. An id can just be some human readable mechanism to
> looking up the item, where as the primary key is what is actually used
> by the database to determine the relations.
>
> They do not have to be the same field but often times they are out of
> convenience. In cases like this, they simply shouldn't be though.
Sorry but I don't understand your point - so maybe first I'll restate
mine. If you have primary key in the database that is of type varchar
(or char or ...) then 'create' is a legitimage value for that primary
key.
If you just don't like the string 'id' in the URI - then I have not
any preference to that - it can be /foo/primary_key/ for me.
>
>
>
> ___
> List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk
> Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
> Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/
> Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
>
--
Zbigniew Lukasiak
http://brudnopis.blogspot.com/
___
List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk
Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/
Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC
On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 2:18 PM, Jonathan Rockway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> * On Sat, May 03 2008, luke saunders wrote:
> > __PACKAGE__->config
> > ( action => { setup => { PathPart => 'cd', Chained =>
> > '/api/rest/rest_base' } },
> > class => 'RestTestDB::CD',
> > create_requires => ['artist', 'title', 'year' ],
> > update_allows => ['title', 'year']
> > );
> >
> > And this gets you the following endpoints to fire requests at:
> > /api/rest/cd/create
> > /api/rest/cd/id/[cdid]/update
> > /api/rest/cd/id/[cdid]/delete
> > /api/rest/cd/id/[cdid]/add_to_rel/[relation]
> > /api/rest/cd/id/[cdid]/remove_from_rel/[relation]
>
> This is RPC, not REST. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
>
> It sounds like what you want to write is a Controller that proxies class
> methods to a URI. For example, you write a class like this:
>
> package Foo;
>
> sub create { my ($class, $username, $password) = @_; ... }
> sub delete { my $self = shift; $self->delete }
> sub foo{ my ($self, $quux, $value_for_42) = @_; ... }
>
> sub fetch_existing { my ($class, $id) = @_ }
>
> ...
> 1;
>
> Then you write a controller like this:
>
> package MyApp::Controller::Foo;
> use base 'The::Thing::You're::Writing';
>
> __PACKAGE__->config(
> class => 'Foo',
> fetch_existing => 'fetch_existing',
> new_instance=> 'create',
> methods => {
> create => ['username', 'password'],
> delete => [],
> foo=> ['quux', '42'],
> },
> );
> 1;
>
> Then you have actions like:
>
> /foo//create//
> /foo/
> /foo//foo//
> /foo//delete
>
> In your configuration, an option would be available to REST-ify certain
> parts of the RPC interface:
>
> rest => {
> create => 'create',
> get=> 'fetch_existing',
> delete => 'delete',
> update => 'update',
> }
>
> Then you would have the /foo and /foo/ REST endpoints do the same
> thing as the RPC calls.
>
I think I'd prefer to use query parameters like I already do rather
than having them in the URI. In fact what I think I should do is leave
the module as it is but make the verb actions private and write the
base action to distribute based on request type so it can be called
REST. Then, because REST isn't always ideal, create a very slim
subclass which gives the Private methods URIs and call this the RPC
version.
> Anyway, making this specific to DBIx::Class sounds like a waste of time.
>
Yes, ideally the general parts would be put in a non-DBIC specific
base controller which $whatever can plug into.
However, a DBIC specific module will allow the bulk of the validation
to be done automatically based on column definitions, foreign keys
etc. Also, a powerful list method can be implemented which allows for
complex search conditions via $rs->search for retrieving a subset of
objects, related rows and so forth. I think stuff like this has to be
DBIC specific.
> Regards,
> Jonathan Rockway
>
> --
> print just => another => perl => hacker => if $,=$"
>
>
>
> ___
> List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk
> Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
> Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/
> Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
>
___
List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk
Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/
Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC
On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 1:52 AM, Zbigniew Lukasiak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 7:05 AM, J. Shirley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> > On a side note about REST - REST doesn't mean human readable URLs. It
> > means representative URLs. The bit about cd/id/{CDID}/ smells like
> > named parameters going into positional parameters. What is the real
> > difference between cd?id={CDID}&action=delete, aside from different
> > characters? Where as with REST, /cd/{id} is a unique identifier for
> > that object and hence a full representation.
>
> The problem I see with /cd/{id} is that when you have a primary key
> that is 'create' - this would clash with the 'create' action.
> /cd/id/{id} let's you separate the reserved words from the user data.
>
>
A pet peeve of mine is that people seem to have this weird idea that
primary key == id. An id can just be some human readable mechanism to
looking up the item, where as the primary key is what is actually used
by the database to determine the relations.
They do not have to be the same field but often times they are out of
convenience. In cases like this, they simply shouldn't be though.
___
List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk
Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/
Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC
* On Sat, May 03 2008, luke saunders wrote:
> __PACKAGE__->config
> ( action => { setup => { PathPart => 'cd', Chained =>
> '/api/rest/rest_base' } },
> class => 'RestTestDB::CD',
> create_requires => ['artist', 'title', 'year' ],
> update_allows => ['title', 'year']
> );
>
> And this gets you the following endpoints to fire requests at:
> /api/rest/cd/create
> /api/rest/cd/id/[cdid]/update
> /api/rest/cd/id/[cdid]/delete
> /api/rest/cd/id/[cdid]/add_to_rel/[relation]
> /api/rest/cd/id/[cdid]/remove_from_rel/[relation]
This is RPC, not REST. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
It sounds like what you want to write is a Controller that proxies class
methods to a URI. For example, you write a class like this:
package Foo;
sub create { my ($class, $username, $password) = @_; ... }
sub delete { my $self = shift; $self->delete }
sub foo{ my ($self, $quux, $value_for_42) = @_; ... }
sub fetch_existing { my ($class, $id) = @_ }
...
1;
Then you write a controller like this:
package MyApp::Controller::Foo;
use base 'The::Thing::You're::Writing';
__PACKAGE__->config(
class => 'Foo',
fetch_existing => 'fetch_existing',
new_instance=> 'create',
methods => {
create => ['username', 'password'],
delete => [],
foo=> ['quux', '42'],
},
);
1;
Then you have actions like:
/foo//create//
/foo/
/foo//foo//
/foo//delete
In your configuration, an option would be available to REST-ify certain
parts of the RPC interface:
rest => {
create => 'create',
get=> 'fetch_existing',
delete => 'delete',
update => 'update',
}
Then you would have the /foo and /foo/ REST endpoints do the same
thing as the RPC calls.
Anyway, making this specific to DBIx::Class sounds like a waste of time.
Regards,
Jonathan Rockway
--
print just => another => perl => hacker => if $,=$"
___
List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk
Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/
Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC
On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 1:28 PM, luke saunders <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > I think we can still make it compatible, if we agree on some kind of > > internal API. > > > > As in make this module compatible with your new module? Perhaps as a > base class without form generation? Yes - I am thinking about something where you have a separate methods for validating the parameters and updating/creating the object in the database - so that I could override them in my sub-class. > > > > It is I think quite common convention to use '.' dot for that: > > > > param1.some_relation.field_value > > > > or > > > > some_param.some_multi_relation.1.field_value > > > > Makes sense. I prefer that to the add_to_rel action, especially if > this is to remain a REST module rather than an RPC module. > It does not bother me if you leave those actions. > The piece of functionality I always wanted but didn't see a clean > solution to was specifying complex conditions to the 'list' action, > for example only CDs which have a track called 'Badgers', which > requires specifying a join and a related condition. I wonder if it > makes sense to represent that this way too. > Well - this is in my plans as well - as search in InstantCRUD :) I am thinking to base it on the technique I described in my Advent article: http://catalyst.perl.org/calendar/2007/16 -- Zbigniew Lukasiak http://brudnopis.blogspot.com/ ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC
On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 11:58 AM, Zbigniew Lukasiak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 12:23 PM, luke saunders <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 10:20 AM, Zbigniew Lukasiak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 2:38 AM, luke saunders <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > I have started to write a Catalyst base controller for REST style
> CRUD
> > > > via DBIC. I have noticed that a number of other people have been
> > > > working on or are thinking about working on something similar, most
> > > > notabley J. Shirley who seems to be creating
> > > > Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC::Item
> > > >
> (http://dev.catalystframework.org/svnweb/Catalyst/browse/Catalyst-Controller-REST-DBIC-Item/)
> > > > and some chaps from a recent thread on this list (entitled
> > > > "Dispatching with Chained vs HTTP method").
> > > >
> > > > Ideally I would like to merge J. Shirley's effort into mine (or visa
> > > > versa) along with anything that anyone else has. Basically I want to
> > > > avoid ending up with a load of modules that all do the same thing.
> > > >
> > > > My effort is heavily based on something mst wrote a while ago, and
> > > > since then I've ended up writing something very similar for every
> > > > project I've worked on which indicates it's worth OSing. Essentially
> > > > it is used like so:
> > > >
> > > > package MyApp::Controller::API::REST::CD;
> > > >
> > > > use base qw/Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC/;
> > > >
> > > > ...
> > > >
> > > > __PACKAGE__->config
> > > > ( action => { setup => { PathPart => 'cd', Chained =>
> > > > '/api/rest/rest_base' } },
> > > > class => 'RestTestDB::CD',
> > > > create_requires => ['artist', 'title', 'year' ],
> > > > update_allows => ['title', 'year']
> > > > );
> > > >
> > > > And this gets you the following endpoints to fire requests at:
> > > > /api/rest/cd/create
> > > > /api/rest/cd/id/[cdid]/update
> > > > /api/rest/cd/id/[cdid]/delete
> > > > /api/rest/cd/id/[cdid]/add_to_rel/[relation]
> > > > /api/rest/cd/id/[cdid]/remove_from_rel/[relation]
> > > >
> > > > The full source is here:
> > > >
> http://lukesaunders.me.uk/dists/Catalyst-Controller-REST-DBIC-1.00.tar.gz
> > > >
> > > > If you have a few moments please have a look, especially if you are
> > > > working on something similar. Today I even wrote a test suite which
> > > > has a test app and is probably the best place to look to see what it
> > > > does.
> > >
> > > I've been planning for a more REST-like update to InstantCRUD for a
> > > long time. My approach is a bit different because for validation and
> > > for generating form's HTML I use HTML::Widget. I believe validation
> > > is important and separate enough to have a separate package (and I
> > > don't want to reinvent the wheel - so I use what is available at
> > > CPAN). I also choose to generate the HTML - because I believe there
> > > is too much logic (classes for errors, options from the database,
> > > subforms from the database - see below) in it for the simplistic
> > > Template::Toolkit language - an elegant solution for that could be
> > > also a TT plugin.
> > >
> > > Now I am working on porting Instant to use Rose::HTML::Form instead of
> > > HTML::Wiget - it will give it much more solid base.
> > >
> >
> > I thinking generating the form is a step too far for this sort of
> > thing, normally I just want the API. In some cases I'll be generating
> > the form HTML with Jemplate for example.
>
> I think we can still make it compatible, if we agree on some kind of
> internal API.
>
As in make this module compatible with your new module? Perhaps as a
base class without form generation?
> > > One more difference in my approach is that the 'update' action will be
> > > able to edit not just one row from the DB - but all the interrelated
> > > records that together make a full object. This means also adding and
> > > removing the related records - so I'll not have the add_to_rel
> > > remove_from_rel actions.
> > >
> >
> > Interesting. How are you representing the related objects in the request?
> >
>
> It is I think quite common convention to use '.' dot for that:
>
> param1.some_relation.field_value
>
> or
>
> some_param.some_multi_relation.1.field_value
>
Makes sense. I prefer that to the add_to_rel action, especially if
this is to remain a REST module rather than an RPC module.
The piece of functionality I always wanted but didn't see a clean
solution to was specifying complex conditions to the 'list' action,
for example only CDs which have a track called 'Badgers', which
requires specifying a join and a related condition. I wonder if it
makes sense to repr
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC
On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 12:23 PM, luke saunders <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 10:20 AM, Zbigniew Lukasiak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 2:38 AM, luke saunders <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > I have started to write a Catalyst base controller for REST style CRUD
> > > via DBIC. I have noticed that a number of other people have been
> > > working on or are thinking about working on something similar, most
> > > notabley J. Shirley who seems to be creating
> > > Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC::Item
> > >
> (http://dev.catalystframework.org/svnweb/Catalyst/browse/Catalyst-Controller-REST-DBIC-Item/)
> > > and some chaps from a recent thread on this list (entitled
> > > "Dispatching with Chained vs HTTP method").
> > >
> > > Ideally I would like to merge J. Shirley's effort into mine (or visa
> > > versa) along with anything that anyone else has. Basically I want to
> > > avoid ending up with a load of modules that all do the same thing.
> > >
> > > My effort is heavily based on something mst wrote a while ago, and
> > > since then I've ended up writing something very similar for every
> > > project I've worked on which indicates it's worth OSing. Essentially
> > > it is used like so:
> > >
> > > package MyApp::Controller::API::REST::CD;
> > >
> > > use base qw/Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC/;
> > >
> > > ...
> > >
> > > __PACKAGE__->config
> > > ( action => { setup => { PathPart => 'cd', Chained =>
> > > '/api/rest/rest_base' } },
> > > class => 'RestTestDB::CD',
> > > create_requires => ['artist', 'title', 'year' ],
> > > update_allows => ['title', 'year']
> > > );
> > >
> > > And this gets you the following endpoints to fire requests at:
> > > /api/rest/cd/create
> > > /api/rest/cd/id/[cdid]/update
> > > /api/rest/cd/id/[cdid]/delete
> > > /api/rest/cd/id/[cdid]/add_to_rel/[relation]
> > > /api/rest/cd/id/[cdid]/remove_from_rel/[relation]
> > >
> > > The full source is here:
> > >
> http://lukesaunders.me.uk/dists/Catalyst-Controller-REST-DBIC-1.00.tar.gz
> > >
> > > If you have a few moments please have a look, especially if you are
> > > working on something similar. Today I even wrote a test suite which
> > > has a test app and is probably the best place to look to see what it
> > > does.
> >
> > I've been planning for a more REST-like update to InstantCRUD for a
> > long time. My approach is a bit different because for validation and
> > for generating form's HTML I use HTML::Widget. I believe validation
> > is important and separate enough to have a separate package (and I
> > don't want to reinvent the wheel - so I use what is available at
> > CPAN). I also choose to generate the HTML - because I believe there
> > is too much logic (classes for errors, options from the database,
> > subforms from the database - see below) in it for the simplistic
> > Template::Toolkit language - an elegant solution for that could be
> > also a TT plugin.
> >
> > Now I am working on porting Instant to use Rose::HTML::Form instead of
> > HTML::Wiget - it will give it much more solid base.
> >
>
> I thinking generating the form is a step too far for this sort of
> thing, normally I just want the API. In some cases I'll be generating
> the form HTML with Jemplate for example.
I think we can still make it compatible, if we agree on some kind of
internal API.
>
>
> > One more difference in my approach is that the 'update' action will be
> > able to edit not just one row from the DB - but all the interrelated
> > records that together make a full object. This means also adding and
> > removing the related records - so I'll not have the add_to_rel
> > remove_from_rel actions.
> >
>
> Interesting. How are you representing the related objects in the request?
>
It is I think quite common convention to use '.' dot for that:
param1.some_relation.field_value
or
some_param.some_multi_relation.1.field_value
>
>
> > There is also an effort by Peter Carman:
> >
> http://search.cpan.org/~karman/CatalystX-CRUD-0.25/lib/CatalystX/CRUD/REST.pm
> > - and I more or less agreed with Peter on some basics - so that
> > hopefully our code will be compatible and maybe even will form
> > together just one solution.
> >
> > Finally I am waiting for the Moose port of Catalyst - so that all the
> > CRUD functionality could be just a Role instead of forcing the user to
> > 'use base'.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Note that it lacks:
> > > - list and view type methods which dump objects to JSON (or whatever)
> > > - clever validation - it should validate based on the DBIC column
> > > definitions but it doesn't
> > > - any auth - not sure if it should or not, but it's possible
> > >
> > > Also it doesn't distinguish between POST, PUT, DELE
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC
On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 10:20 AM, Zbigniew Lukasiak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 2:38 AM, luke saunders <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I have started to write a Catalyst base controller for REST style CRUD
> > via DBIC. I have noticed that a number of other people have been
> > working on or are thinking about working on something similar, most
> > notabley J. Shirley who seems to be creating
> > Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC::Item
> >
> (http://dev.catalystframework.org/svnweb/Catalyst/browse/Catalyst-Controller-REST-DBIC-Item/)
> > and some chaps from a recent thread on this list (entitled
> > "Dispatching with Chained vs HTTP method").
> >
> > Ideally I would like to merge J. Shirley's effort into mine (or visa
> > versa) along with anything that anyone else has. Basically I want to
> > avoid ending up with a load of modules that all do the same thing.
> >
> > My effort is heavily based on something mst wrote a while ago, and
> > since then I've ended up writing something very similar for every
> > project I've worked on which indicates it's worth OSing. Essentially
> > it is used like so:
> >
> > package MyApp::Controller::API::REST::CD;
> >
> > use base qw/Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC/;
> >
> > ...
> >
> > __PACKAGE__->config
> > ( action => { setup => { PathPart => 'cd', Chained =>
> > '/api/rest/rest_base' } },
> > class => 'RestTestDB::CD',
> > create_requires => ['artist', 'title', 'year' ],
> > update_allows => ['title', 'year']
> > );
> >
> > And this gets you the following endpoints to fire requests at:
> > /api/rest/cd/create
> > /api/rest/cd/id/[cdid]/update
> > /api/rest/cd/id/[cdid]/delete
> > /api/rest/cd/id/[cdid]/add_to_rel/[relation]
> > /api/rest/cd/id/[cdid]/remove_from_rel/[relation]
> >
> > The full source is here:
> >
> http://lukesaunders.me.uk/dists/Catalyst-Controller-REST-DBIC-1.00.tar.gz
> >
> > If you have a few moments please have a look, especially if you are
> > working on something similar. Today I even wrote a test suite which
> > has a test app and is probably the best place to look to see what it
> > does.
>
> I've been planning for a more REST-like update to InstantCRUD for a
> long time. My approach is a bit different because for validation and
> for generating form's HTML I use HTML::Widget. I believe validation
> is important and separate enough to have a separate package (and I
> don't want to reinvent the wheel - so I use what is available at
> CPAN). I also choose to generate the HTML - because I believe there
> is too much logic (classes for errors, options from the database,
> subforms from the database - see below) in it for the simplistic
> Template::Toolkit language - an elegant solution for that could be
> also a TT plugin.
>
> Now I am working on porting Instant to use Rose::HTML::Form instead of
> HTML::Wiget - it will give it much more solid base.
>
I thinking generating the form is a step too far for this sort of
thing, normally I just want the API. In some cases I'll be generating
the form HTML with Jemplate for example.
> One more difference in my approach is that the 'update' action will be
> able to edit not just one row from the DB - but all the interrelated
> records that together make a full object. This means also adding and
> removing the related records - so I'll not have the add_to_rel
> remove_from_rel actions.
>
Interesting. How are you representing the related objects in the request?
> There is also an effort by Peter Carman:
> http://search.cpan.org/~karman/CatalystX-CRUD-0.25/lib/CatalystX/CRUD/REST.pm
> - and I more or less agreed with Peter on some basics - so that
> hopefully our code will be compatible and maybe even will form
> together just one solution.
>
> Finally I am waiting for the Moose port of Catalyst - so that all the
> CRUD functionality could be just a Role instead of forcing the user to
> 'use base'.
>
>
> >
> > Note that it lacks:
> > - list and view type methods which dump objects to JSON (or whatever)
> > - clever validation - it should validate based on the DBIC column
> > definitions but it doesn't
> > - any auth - not sure if it should or not, but it's possible
> >
> > Also it doesn't distinguish between POST, PUT, DELETE and GET HTTP
> > requests favouring instead entirely separate endpoints, but that's up
> > for discussion.
> >
> > So, J. Shirley, do you have any interest in a merge? And others, do
> > you have ideas and would you like to contribute?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Luke.
> >
>
>
> > ___
> > List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk
> > Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
> > Searchable archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/
> > Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
> >
>
>
>
> -
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC
On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 6:05 AM, J. Shirley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 9:29 PM, Patrick Donelan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > And this gets you the following endpoints to fire requests at:
> > >/api/rest/cd/create
> > >/api/rest/cd/id/[cdid]/update
> > >/api/rest/cd/id/[cdid]/delete
> > >/api/rest/cd/id/[cdid]/add_to_rel/[relation]
> > >/api/rest/cd/id/[cdid]/remove_from_rel/[relation]
> >
> > Those URLs don't strike me as very RESTful.
> >
> > Patrick
> >
>
> That is my first impression. My work is an enhancement from
> Catalyst::Action::REST, which is a great module already out on CPAN
> and used by other people (holoway++).
>
> I'm all for collaboration, but my work is mostly tied to have exposed
> webservices (in addition to a web-browser compatibility layer) via
> REST. By that I mean that I expect, and require, that I can do a PUT
> /api/rest/cd/[cdid], DELETE /api/rest/cd/[CDID]
>
Sure, but I have previously had problems getting a browser to send PUT
requests from JS so separate endpoints were required. In fact the Dojo
author even said that PUT was a nightmare, use POST (possibly fixed in
recent Dojo version / browsers). i see no reason why you can't have
one base action which forwards to the others based on request type so
that both URL types are exposed.
> On a side note about REST - REST doesn't mean human readable URLs. It
> means representative URLs. The bit about cd/id/{CDID}/ smells like
> named parameters going into positional parameters. What is the real
> difference between cd?id={CDID}&action=delete, aside from different
> characters? Where as with REST, /cd/{id} is a unique identifier for
> that object and hence a full representation.
>
I find having the id in the path to be a clearer distinction between
object level operations and class level operations. It's the
difference between object and all objects.
> You can catch me on IRC next week, as I'm actively working on this for
> $work and it's getting real dev time (finally). My work is
> functionally complete, but lacking test cases; it is just a refactor
> of existing code in production.
>
So you don't want to automate any actual operations? In which case if
anything my module could subclass yours.
___
List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk
Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/
Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC
On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 2:38 AM, luke saunders <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have started to write a Catalyst base controller for REST style CRUD
> via DBIC. I have noticed that a number of other people have been
> working on or are thinking about working on something similar, most
> notabley J. Shirley who seems to be creating
> Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC::Item
>
> (http://dev.catalystframework.org/svnweb/Catalyst/browse/Catalyst-Controller-REST-DBIC-Item/)
> and some chaps from a recent thread on this list (entitled
> "Dispatching with Chained vs HTTP method").
>
> Ideally I would like to merge J. Shirley's effort into mine (or visa
> versa) along with anything that anyone else has. Basically I want to
> avoid ending up with a load of modules that all do the same thing.
>
> My effort is heavily based on something mst wrote a while ago, and
> since then I've ended up writing something very similar for every
> project I've worked on which indicates it's worth OSing. Essentially
> it is used like so:
>
> package MyApp::Controller::API::REST::CD;
>
> use base qw/Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC/;
>
> ...
>
> __PACKAGE__->config
> ( action => { setup => { PathPart => 'cd', Chained =>
> '/api/rest/rest_base' } },
> class => 'RestTestDB::CD',
> create_requires => ['artist', 'title', 'year' ],
> update_allows => ['title', 'year']
> );
>
> And this gets you the following endpoints to fire requests at:
> /api/rest/cd/create
> /api/rest/cd/id/[cdid]/update
> /api/rest/cd/id/[cdid]/delete
> /api/rest/cd/id/[cdid]/add_to_rel/[relation]
> /api/rest/cd/id/[cdid]/remove_from_rel/[relation]
>
> The full source is here:
> http://lukesaunders.me.uk/dists/Catalyst-Controller-REST-DBIC-1.00.tar.gz
>
> If you have a few moments please have a look, especially if you are
> working on something similar. Today I even wrote a test suite which
> has a test app and is probably the best place to look to see what it
> does.
I've been planning for a more REST-like update to InstantCRUD for a
long time. My approach is a bit different because for validation and
for generating form's HTML I use HTML::Widget. I believe validation
is important and separate enough to have a separate package (and I
don't want to reinvent the wheel - so I use what is available at
CPAN). I also choose to generate the HTML - because I believe there
is too much logic (classes for errors, options from the database,
subforms from the database - see below) in it for the simplistic
Template::Toolkit language - an elegant solution for that could be
also a TT plugin.
Now I am working on porting Instant to use Rose::HTML::Form instead of
HTML::Wiget - it will give it much more solid base.
One more difference in my approach is that the 'update' action will be
able to edit not just one row from the DB - but all the interrelated
records that together make a full object. This means also adding and
removing the related records - so I'll not have the add_to_rel
remove_from_rel actions.
There is also an effort by Peter Carman:
http://search.cpan.org/~karman/CatalystX-CRUD-0.25/lib/CatalystX/CRUD/REST.pm
- and I more or less agreed with Peter on some basics - so that
hopefully our code will be compatible and maybe even will form
together just one solution.
Finally I am waiting for the Moose port of Catalyst - so that all the
CRUD functionality could be just a Role instead of forcing the user to
'use base'.
>
> Note that it lacks:
> - list and view type methods which dump objects to JSON (or whatever)
> - clever validation - it should validate based on the DBIC column
> definitions but it doesn't
> - any auth - not sure if it should or not, but it's possible
>
> Also it doesn't distinguish between POST, PUT, DELETE and GET HTTP
> requests favouring instead entirely separate endpoints, but that's up
> for discussion.
>
> So, J. Shirley, do you have any interest in a merge? And others, do
> you have ideas and would you like to contribute?
>
> Thanks,
> Luke.
>
> ___
> List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk
> Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
> Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/
> Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
>
--
Zbigniew Lukasiak
http://brudnopis.blogspot.com/
___
List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk
Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/
Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC
On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 7:05 AM, J. Shirley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 9:29 PM, Patrick Donelan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > And this gets you the following endpoints to fire requests at:
> > >/api/rest/cd/create
> > >/api/rest/cd/id/[cdid]/update
> > >/api/rest/cd/id/[cdid]/delete
> > >/api/rest/cd/id/[cdid]/add_to_rel/[relation]
> > >/api/rest/cd/id/[cdid]/remove_from_rel/[relation]
> >
> > Those URLs don't strike me as very RESTful.
> >
> > Patrick
> >
>
> That is my first impression. My work is an enhancement from
> Catalyst::Action::REST, which is a great module already out on CPAN
> and used by other people (holoway++).
>
> I'm all for collaboration, but my work is mostly tied to have exposed
> webservices (in addition to a web-browser compatibility layer) via
> REST. By that I mean that I expect, and require, that I can do a PUT
> /api/rest/cd/[cdid], DELETE /api/rest/cd/[CDID]
>
> On a side note about REST - REST doesn't mean human readable URLs. It
> means representative URLs. The bit about cd/id/{CDID}/ smells like
> named parameters going into positional parameters. What is the real
> difference between cd?id={CDID}&action=delete, aside from different
> characters? Where as with REST, /cd/{id} is a unique identifier for
> that object and hence a full representation.
The problem I see with /cd/{id} is that when you have a primary key
that is 'create' - this would clash with the 'create' action.
/cd/id/{id} let's you separate the reserved words from the user data.
>
> I understand the limitations of /cd/id/{id} vs. /cd/name/{id}, but a
> lookup and redirection service is a better solution that polluting
> your absolute unique representative URL spaces.
>
> You can catch me on IRC next week, as I'm actively working on this for
> $work and it's getting real dev time (finally). My work is
> functionally complete, but lacking test cases; it is just a refactor
> of existing code in production.
>
> -J
>
>
>
> ___
> List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk
> Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
> Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/
> Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
>
--
Zbigniew Lukasiak
http://brudnopis.blogspot.com/
___
List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk
Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/
Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC
On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 9:29 PM, Patrick Donelan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > And this gets you the following endpoints to fire requests at:
> >/api/rest/cd/create
> >/api/rest/cd/id/[cdid]/update
> >/api/rest/cd/id/[cdid]/delete
> >/api/rest/cd/id/[cdid]/add_to_rel/[relation]
> >/api/rest/cd/id/[cdid]/remove_from_rel/[relation]
>
> Those URLs don't strike me as very RESTful.
>
> Patrick
>
That is my first impression. My work is an enhancement from
Catalyst::Action::REST, which is a great module already out on CPAN
and used by other people (holoway++).
I'm all for collaboration, but my work is mostly tied to have exposed
webservices (in addition to a web-browser compatibility layer) via
REST. By that I mean that I expect, and require, that I can do a PUT
/api/rest/cd/[cdid], DELETE /api/rest/cd/[CDID]
On a side note about REST - REST doesn't mean human readable URLs. It
means representative URLs. The bit about cd/id/{CDID}/ smells like
named parameters going into positional parameters. What is the real
difference between cd?id={CDID}&action=delete, aside from different
characters? Where as with REST, /cd/{id} is a unique identifier for
that object and hence a full representation.
I understand the limitations of /cd/id/{id} vs. /cd/name/{id}, but a
lookup and redirection service is a better solution that polluting
your absolute unique representative URL spaces.
You can catch me on IRC next week, as I'm actively working on this for
$work and it's getting real dev time (finally). My work is
functionally complete, but lacking test cases; it is just a refactor
of existing code in production.
-J
___
List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk
Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/
Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: Catalyst::Controller::REST::DBIC
> > And this gets you the following endpoints to fire requests at: >/api/rest/cd/create >/api/rest/cd/id/[cdid]/update >/api/rest/cd/id/[cdid]/delete >/api/rest/cd/id/[cdid]/add_to_rel/[relation] >/api/rest/cd/id/[cdid]/remove_from_rel/[relation] Those URLs don't strike me as very RESTful. Patrick ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
