RE: [cayugabirds-l] ...pedestrians on the Wildlife Drive :(
large, motorized, polluting, loud, deadly vehicle is preferable to a human being on foot, or on a bicycle. Well, most of the vehicles cruising the wildlife drive are going extremely slowly because people are trying to see the wildlife, so they're not really loud and deadly (when they're going 60 mph on the highway, of course they ARE). They certainly are large, motorized and polluting. But from a bird's point of view, usually once the birds have got used to vehicles they tend to ignore them…simply because vehicles don't look like people! The same reason birds eventually ignore a photo blind, even if it's a large canvas box! Step outside and they're gone! People on foot and on bikes would absolutely be more disruptive…especially from a photographer's point of view. Given that people on foot (especially photographers like myself) would always want to be closer, I can imagine how they might approach the cattail edge closer than is now possible by car. I know I would be tempted. That would certainly push away birds such as the gallinules that were right along that edge with their chicks last week. And that spoils it all for the people coming up behind you. Last week from my vehicle I was able to get amazing close-ups of them feeding their young. So, somewhat to my surprise (given how many times in the past decades I have cursed MNWR's in your vehicle restriction) I find myself wanting to keep the restriction…in my opinion removing it would ruin MNWR's wildlife drive for bird photography. But someone did suggest another option: a few more spots around the refuge (especially along the drive) where you can get out. Halfway along the channel on the wildlife drive would, in my opinion, be ideal for one of those spots. Maybe a nice wooden deck out over the water? (I know….$$$ !) Any birds residing in the vicinity would likely become used to seeing people there and eventually ignore them. Of course, how to contain the parking and corral the people so they don't simply wander up and down the drive on either side of the deck would be perennial problems. Marie Marie Read Wildlife Photography 452 Ringwood Road Freeville NY 13068 USA Phone 607-539-6608 e-mail m...@cornell.edu http://www.marieread.com Author of Sierra Wings: Birds of the Mono Lake BasinAvailable here: http://marieread.photoshelter.com/gallery/Sierra-Wings-Birds-of-the-Mono-Lake-Basin/GNlCxX37uTzE/CBPFGij6nLfE From: bounce-117686157-5851...@list.cornell.edu [bounce-117686157-5851...@list.cornell.edu] on behalf of Lisa Welch [welch_m_l...@yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, August 4, 2014 9:26 AM To: CAYUGABIRDS-L Subject: Re: [cayugabirds-l] MNWR Caspian Terns and pedestrians on the Wildlife Drive :( I find it counter-intuitive that a large, motorized, polluting, loud, deadly vehicle is preferable to a human being on foot, or on a bicycle. Perhaps it's people AND cars that scares the birds. :-) On Saturday, August 2, 2014 7:47 PM, Bard Prentiss prenti...@frontiernet.net wrote: I don't remember anyone addressing this long standing annoyance in the manner I mention below and I think its worth a try: Perhaps the bird clubs in the region could each submit thoughtful petitions to the director of mnwr requesting a policy change. If Chris didn't mind one might also originate with this list serve. It would be difficult for a public servant to ignore several hundred signatures behind a group of thoughtfully worded letters and It should at least generate a response and get a dialogue going. Bird Hard Bard Sent from my iPhone On Aug 2, 2014, at 6:08 PM, John VanNiel john.vann...@flcc.edumailto:john.vann...@flcc.edu wrote: Meena, this is exactly the kind f discussion I was hoping to instigate. I am not against a change in policy, but I am for enforcement of policies. Dr. John Van Niel Professor of Environmental Conservation Director, East Hill Campus Finger Lakes Community College From: Meena Madhav Haribal [m...@cornell.edumailto:m...@cornell.edu] Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2014 5:59 PM To: John VanNiel Cc: CAYUGABIRDS-L Subject: Re: [cayugabirds-l] MNWR Caspian Terns and pedestrians on the Wildlife Drive :( Hi John and all, My question to you is were the birds disturbed by so many people being out. I have been to MNWR for more than 20 years. When I started birding MNWR there was no restriction of being in the car. We could walk around on the drive. I have been to many NWR refuges, nowhere there was restrictions as to be in car. I have seen shorebirds and other birds from as close as few feet from me. Birds get used to human beings if we are not shooting them or harassing them. So why there is so much fuss about disturbing the non_existing birds on the wildlife drive. I am for the one who believe in opening the drive to foot traffic. I agree if someone is harassing the birds they
Re: [cayugabirds-l] ...pedestrians on the Wildlife Drive :(
We can always rationalize a car! I bet we could put our collective imaginations and creativity together and conceive different viewing options that would be better for the birds and people. This is true in general for human settlements as well. However, people want to DRIVE on the same old road and look at birds. It is what it is. On Monday, August 4, 2014 10:10 AM, Marie P. Read m...@cornell.edu wrote: large, motorized, polluting, loud, deadly vehicle is preferable to a human being on foot, or on a bicycle. Well, most of the vehicles cruising the wildlife drive are going extremely slowly because people are trying to see the wildlife, so they're not really loud and deadly (when they're going 60 mph on the highway, of course they ARE). They certainly are large, motorized and polluting. But from a bird's point of view, usually once the birds have got used to vehicles they tend to ignore them…simply because vehicles don't look like people! The same reason birds eventually ignore a photo blind, even if it's a large canvas box! Step outside and they're gone! People on foot and on bikes would absolutely be more disruptive…especially from a photographer's point of view. Given that people on foot (especially photographers like myself) would always want to be closer, I can imagine how they might approach the cattail edge closer than is now possible by car. I know I would be tempted. That would certainly push away birds such as the gallinules that were right along that edge with their chicks last week. And that spoils it all for the people coming up behind you. Last week from my vehicle I was able to get amazing close-ups of them feeding their young. So, somewhat to my surprise (given how many times in the past decades I have cursed MNWR's in your vehicle restriction) I find myself wanting to keep the restriction…in my opinion removing it would ruin MNWR's wildlife drive for bird photography. But someone did suggest another option: a few more spots around the refuge (especially along the drive) where you can get out. Halfway along the channel on the wildlife drive would, in my opinion, be ideal for one of those spots. Maybe a nice wooden deck out over the water? (I know….$$$ !) Any birds residing in the vicinity would likely become used to seeing people there and eventually ignore them. Of course, how to contain the parking and corral the people so they don't simply wander up and down the drive on either side of the deck would be perennial problems. Marie Marie Read Wildlife Photography 452 Ringwood Road Freeville NY 13068 USA Phone 607-539-6608 e-mail m...@cornell.edu http://www.marieread.com/ Author of Sierra Wings: Birds of the Mono Lake Basin Available here: http://marieread.photoshelter.com/gallery/Sierra-Wings-Birds-of-the-Mono-Lake-Basin/GNlCxX37uTzE/CBPFGij6nLfE From: bounce-117686157-5851...@list.cornell.edu [bounce-117686157-5851...@list.cornell.edu] on behalf of Lisa Welch [welch_m_l...@yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, August 4, 2014 9:26 AM To: CAYUGABIRDS-L Subject: Re: [cayugabirds-l] MNWR Caspian Terns and pedestrians on the Wildlife Drive :( I find it counter-intuitive that a large, motorized, polluting, loud, deadly vehicle is preferable to a human being on foot, or on a bicycle. Perhaps it's people AND cars that scares the birds. :-) On Saturday, August 2, 2014 7:47 PM, Bard Prentiss prenti...@frontiernet.net wrote: I don't remember anyone addressing this long standing annoyance in the manner I mention below and I think its worth a try: Perhaps the bird clubs in the region could each submit thoughtful petitions to the director of mnwr requesting a policy change. If Chris didn't mind one might also originate with this list serve. It would be difficult for a public servant to ignore several hundred signatures behind a group of thoughtfully worded letters and It should at least generate a response and get a dialogue going. Bird Hard Bard Sent from my iPhone On Aug 2, 2014, at 6:08 PM, John VanNiel john.vann...@flcc.edumailto:john.vann...@flcc.edu wrote: Meena, this is exactly the kind f discussion I was hoping to instigate. I am not against a change in policy, but I am for enforcement of policies. Dr. John Van Niel Professor of Environmental Conservation Director, East Hill Campus Finger Lakes Community College From: Meena Madhav Haribal [m...@cornell.edumailto:m...@cornell.edu] Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2014 5:59 PM To: John VanNiel Cc: CAYUGABIRDS-L Subject: Re: [cayugabirds-l] MNWR Caspian Terns and pedestrians on the Wildlife Drive :( Hi John and all, My question to you is were the birds disturbed by so many people being out. I have been to MNWR for more than 20 years. When I started birding MNWR there was no restriction of being in the car. We could walk around on the drive. I have been to many NWR
RE: [cayugabirds-l] ...pedestrians on the Wildlife Drive :(
Of course birds let you get closer when you're in a car. That's as true at Stewart Park and along any back road as it is in Montezuma. I do a ton of observation and photography from my car, sometimes even in my own driveway. That's great for one person, but it stinks for groups. Having to remain in a car on the wildlife drive diminishes the possible experience of any group, especially a group with a scope, which cannot be used by multiple people (the best teaching tool for groups). It also diminishes the potential experience for kids and anyone who would like to get out and get a closer look. I'm hearing a lot of 1%-er talk, I want to optimize my experience, and the riff-raff should just stay away (or stay in their cars). I am as guilty (or more) as anyone of wanting to have the entire refuge to myself. But in the bigger picture, I don't see having too many people enjoying nature at Montezuma as the problem. I think it's quite the opposite: there are too FEW people learning about nature there. Those of us interested in nature and supportive of the National Wildlife Refuge system should want EVERYONE to get out of their cars and poke around. I WANT people to peer through the reeds and see a turtle (or maybe a rail). I WANT people to stop and take pictures of the flowers. I WANT people to get out and marvel at a muskrat mound, and then have a young Bald Eagle fly over their heads. (It's hard to look up from a back seat.) In my personal opinion, anything that reduces the availability of wildlife watching and nature exploration for the general public is a bad thing. Of course safety measures should be in place to protect the wildlife and the habitat. But access and education should be the default. Unless you have a darned good reason, please don't keep me and my kids (and neighbors, and parents, and friends) out. Kevin Kevin McGowan Ithaca, NY -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
RE: [cayugabirds-l] ...pedestrians on the Wildlife Drive :(
Hi Kevin and all, Great thoughts Kevin! I am with you on these points! Also I would like enjoy other creatures too, it is a wildlife refuge not just for birds. I would like to see a dragonfly or a flower or a digger wasp making it home for its progeny. You can't see a digger wasp from your car! So the refuges are not meant for specifically birds or birders. Unless people enjoy the nature they will not support nature conservation. Most of the people who come there want to enjoy nature not just birders. Basic thing needed is educating the public about their behavior. If a person stands at one location for long time enough without harassing a bird then they are as effective as cars. Also everybody is not interested in photographing a bird. If they see some actions by birds they are happy about it! Having said that, I would also suggest that there could be comprises. At strategic locations there could be blinds or shelters. Also walks could be open for certain time of the day, so as to get birds a chance to do what they are supposed to do. For example the dykes on the Knox Marsellus could be open to public to walk for certain hours of the day. As it is birds are miles away. If we all together put in our efforts we can make solid recommendations to the refuge or if the refuge managers are reading e-mails they themselves can think of some of the alternatives. If we want people to enjoy nature they should see them up close, a shorebird three miles away has not effect on a general public than a bird close at hand and watching its behaviors. Then only they will support conservation! We need people to enjoy the nature and love it! Hope we will make some changes! Cheers Meena -Original Message- From: bounce-117686987-3493...@list.cornell.edu [mailto:bounce-117686987-3493...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Kevin J. McGowan Sent: Monday, August 04, 2014 12:03 PM To: CAYUGABIRDS-L Subject: RE: [cayugabirds-l] ...pedestrians on the Wildlife Drive :( Of course birds let you get closer when you're in a car. That's as true at Stewart Park and along any back road as it is in Montezuma. I do a ton of observation and photography from my car, sometimes even in my own driveway. That's great for one person, but it stinks for groups. Having to remain in a car on the wildlife drive diminishes the possible experience of any group, especially a group with a scope, which cannot be used by multiple people (the best teaching tool for groups). It also diminishes the potential experience for kids and anyone who would like to get out and get a closer look. I'm hearing a lot of 1%-er talk, I want to optimize my experience, and the riff-raff should just stay away (or stay in their cars). I am as guilty (or more) as anyone of wanting to have the entire refuge to myself. But in the bigger picture, I don't see having too many people enjoying nature at Montezuma as the problem. I think it's quite the opposite: there are too FEW people learning about nature there. Those of us interested in nature and supportive of the National Wildlife Refuge system should want EVERYONE to get out of their cars and poke around. I WANT people to peer through the reeds and see a turtle (or maybe a rail). I WANT people to stop and take pictures of the flowers. I WANT people to get out and marvel at a muskrat mound, and then have a young Bald Eagle fly over their heads. (It's hard to look up from a back seat.) In my personal opinion, anything that reduces the availability of wildlife watching and nature exploration for the general public is a bad thing. Of course safety measures should be in place to protect the wildlife and the habitat. But access and education should be the default. Unless you have a darned good reason, please don't keep me and my kids (and neighbors, and parents, and friends) out. Kevin Kevin McGowan Ithaca, NY -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ -- -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
Re: [cayugabirds-l] ...pedestrians on the Wildlife Drive :(
Kevin and Meena's points and passions are wonderful guiding principles on the ways we interact with, enjoy, and respect nature. I would love to be involved in some group discussions and creative recommendations. They don't say get out into nature...but stay in your car while doing it. Linda Sent from my iPhone On Aug 4, 2014, at 12:44 PM, Meena Madhav Haribal m...@cornell.edu wrote: Hi Kevin and all, Great thoughts Kevin! I am with you on these points! Also I would like enjoy other creatures too, it is a wildlife refuge not just for birds. I would like to see a dragonfly or a flower or a digger wasp making it home for its progeny. You can't see a digger wasp from your car! So the refuges are not meant for specifically birds or birders. Unless people enjoy the nature they will not support nature conservation. Most of the people who come there want to enjoy nature not just birders. Basic thing needed is educating the public about their behavior. If a person stands at one location for long time enough without harassing a bird then they are as effective as cars. Also everybody is not interested in photographing a bird. If they see some actions by birds they are happy about it! Having said that, I would also suggest that there could be comprises. At strategic locations there could be blinds or shelters. Also walks could be open for certain time of the day, so as to get birds a chance to do what they are supposed to do. For example the dykes on the Knox Marsellus could be open to public to walk for certain hours of the day. As it is birds are miles away. If we all together put in our efforts we can make solid recommendations to the refuge or if the refuge managers are reading e-mails they themselves can think of some of the alternatives. If we want people to enjoy nature they should see them up close, a shorebird three miles away has not effect on a general public than a bird close at hand and watching its behaviors. Then only they will support conservation! We need people to enjoy the nature and love it! Hope we will make some changes! Cheers Meena -Original Message- From: bounce-117686987-3493...@list.cornell.edu [mailto:bounce-117686987-3493...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Kevin J. McGowan Sent: Monday, August 04, 2014 12:03 PM To: CAYUGABIRDS-L Subject: RE: [cayugabirds-l] ...pedestrians on the Wildlife Drive :( Of course birds let you get closer when you're in a car. That's as true at Stewart Park and along any back road as it is in Montezuma. I do a ton of observation and photography from my car, sometimes even in my own driveway. That's great for one person, but it stinks for groups. Having to remain in a car on the wildlife drive diminishes the possible experience of any group, especially a group with a scope, which cannot be used by multiple people (the best teaching tool for groups). It also diminishes the potential experience for kids and anyone who would like to get out and get a closer look. I'm hearing a lot of 1%-er talk, I want to optimize my experience, and the riff-raff should just stay away (or stay in their cars). I am as guilty (or more) as anyone of wanting to have the entire refuge to myself. But in the bigger picture, I don't see having too many people enjoying nature at Montezuma as the problem. I think it's quite the opposite: there are too FEW people learning about nature there. Those of us interested in nature and supportive of the National Wildlife Refuge system should want EVERYONE to get out of their cars and poke around. I WANT people to peer through the reeds and see a turtle (or maybe a rail). I WANT people to stop and take pictures of the flowers. I WANT people to get out and marvel at a muskrat mound, and then have a young Bald Eagle fly over their heads. (It's hard to look up from a back seat.) In my personal opinion, anything that reduces the availability of wildlife watching and nature exploration for the general public is a bad thing. Of course safety measures should be in place to protect the wildlife and the habitat. But access and education should be the default. Unless you have a darned good reason, please don't keep me and my kids (and neighbors, and parents, and friends) out. Kevin Kevin McGowan Ithaca, NY -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ -- -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http
RE: [cayugabirds-l] ...pedestrians on the Wildlife Drive :(
Sorry for the major typo- read comprises and compromises! -Original Message- From: Linda Orkin [mailto:wingmagi...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, August 04, 2014 1:12 PM To: Meena Madhav Haribal Cc: Kevin J. McGowan; CAYUGABIRDS-L Subject: Re: [cayugabirds-l] ...pedestrians on the Wildlife Drive :( Kevin and Meena's points and passions are wonderful guiding principles on the ways we interact with, enjoy, and respect nature. I would love to be involved in some group discussions and creative recommendations. They don't say get out into nature...but stay in your car while doing it. Linda Sent from my iPhone On Aug 4, 2014, at 12:44 PM, Meena Madhav Haribal m...@cornell.edu wrote: Hi Kevin and all, Great thoughts Kevin! I am with you on these points! Also I would like enjoy other creatures too, it is a wildlife refuge not just for birds. I would like to see a dragonfly or a flower or a digger wasp making it home for its progeny. You can't see a digger wasp from your car! So the refuges are not meant for specifically birds or birders. Unless people enjoy the nature they will not support nature conservation. Most of the people who come there want to enjoy nature not just birders. Basic thing needed is educating the public about their behavior. If a person stands at one location for long time enough without harassing a bird then they are as effective as cars. Also everybody is not interested in photographing a bird. If they see some actions by birds they are happy about it! Having said that, I would also suggest that there could be comprises. At strategic locations there could be blinds or shelters. Also walks could be open for certain time of the day, so as to get birds a chance to do what they are supposed to do. For example the dykes on the Knox Marsellus could be open to public to walk for certain hours of the day. As it is birds are miles away. If we all together put in our efforts we can make solid recommendations to the refuge or if the refuge managers are reading e-mails they themselves can think of some of the alternatives. If we want people to enjoy nature they should see them up close, a shorebird three miles away has not effect on a general public than a bird close at hand and watching its behaviors. Then only they will support conservation! We need people to enjoy the nature and love it! Hope we will make some changes! Cheers Meena -Original Message- From: bounce-117686987-3493...@list.cornell.edu [mailto:bounce-117686987-3493...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Kevin J. McGowan Sent: Monday, August 04, 2014 12:03 PM To: CAYUGABIRDS-L Subject: RE: [cayugabirds-l] ...pedestrians on the Wildlife Drive :( Of course birds let you get closer when you're in a car. That's as true at Stewart Park and along any back road as it is in Montezuma. I do a ton of observation and photography from my car, sometimes even in my own driveway. That's great for one person, but it stinks for groups. Having to remain in a car on the wildlife drive diminishes the possible experience of any group, especially a group with a scope, which cannot be used by multiple people (the best teaching tool for groups). It also diminishes the potential experience for kids and anyone who would like to get out and get a closer look. I'm hearing a lot of 1%-er talk, I want to optimize my experience, and the riff-raff should just stay away (or stay in their cars). I am as guilty (or more) as anyone of wanting to have the entire refuge to myself. But in the bigger picture, I don't see having too many people enjoying nature at Montezuma as the problem. I think it's quite the opposite: there are too FEW people learning about nature there. Those of us interested in nature and supportive of the National Wildlife Refuge system should want EVERYONE to get out of their cars and poke around. I WANT people to peer through the reeds and see a turtle (or maybe a rail). I WANT people to stop and take pictures of the flowers. I WANT people to get out and marvel at a muskrat mound, and then have a young Bald Eagle fly over their heads. (It's hard to look up from a back seat.) In my personal opinion, anything that reduces the availability of wildlife watching and nature exploration for the general public is a bad thing. Of course safety measures should be in place to protect the wildlife and the habitat. But access and education should be the default. Unless you have a darned good reason, please don't keep me and my kids (and neighbors, and parents, and friends) out. Kevin Kevin McGowan Ithaca, NY -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu
Re: [cayugabirds-l] ...pedestrians on the Wildlife Drive :(
Kevin makes some very good points. One complaint, often heard, is that people drive too fast on the drive. I expect these are folks who don't know what to look for. They don't see anything of interest and are bored with endless cattails. It would be nice if we could get them to stop, and with a little guidance, begin to see what they have been missing. Once a year (Oct?), NWR day (?), volunteers position ourselves along the drive with scopes, and purposely flag down vehicles, to get people out to look. Great fun to have them see something they have never seen before, and/or didn't know was there to be seen. On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Meena Madhav Haribal m...@cornell.edu wrote: Sorry for the major typo- read comprises and compromises! -Original Message- From: Linda Orkin [mailto:wingmagi...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, August 04, 2014 1:12 PM To: Meena Madhav Haribal Cc: Kevin J. McGowan; CAYUGABIRDS-L Subject: Re: [cayugabirds-l] ...pedestrians on the Wildlife Drive :( Kevin and Meena's points and passions are wonderful guiding principles on the ways we interact with, enjoy, and respect nature. I would love to be involved in some group discussions and creative recommendations. They don't say get out into nature...but stay in your car while doing it. Linda Sent from my iPhone On Aug 4, 2014, at 12:44 PM, Meena Madhav Haribal m...@cornell.edu wrote: Hi Kevin and all, Great thoughts Kevin! I am with you on these points! Also I would like enjoy other creatures too, it is a wildlife refuge not just for birds. I would like to see a dragonfly or a flower or a digger wasp making it home for its progeny. You can't see a digger wasp from your car! So the refuges are not meant for specifically birds or birders. Unless people enjoy the nature they will not support nature conservation. Most of the people who come there want to enjoy nature not just birders. Basic thing needed is educating the public about their behavior. If a person stands at one location for long time enough without harassing a bird then they are as effective as cars. Also everybody is not interested in photographing a bird. If they see some actions by birds they are happy about it! Having said that, I would also suggest that there could be comprises. At strategic locations there could be blinds or shelters. Also walks could be open for certain time of the day, so as to get birds a chance to do what they are supposed to do. For example the dykes on the Knox Marsellus could be open to public to walk for certain hours of the day. As it is birds are miles away. If we all together put in our efforts we can make solid recommendations to the refuge or if the refuge managers are reading e-mails they themselves can think of some of the alternatives. If we want people to enjoy nature they should see them up close, a shorebird three miles away has not effect on a general public than a bird close at hand and watching its behaviors. Then only they will support conservation! We need people to enjoy the nature and love it! Hope we will make some changes! Cheers Meena -Original Message- From: bounce-117686987-3493...@list.cornell.edu [mailto: bounce-117686987-3493...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Kevin J. McGowan Sent: Monday, August 04, 2014 12:03 PM To: CAYUGABIRDS-L Subject: RE: [cayugabirds-l] ...pedestrians on the Wildlife Drive :( Of course birds let you get closer when you're in a car. That's as true at Stewart Park and along any back road as it is in Montezuma. I do a ton of observation and photography from my car, sometimes even in my own driveway. That's great for one person, but it stinks for groups. Having to remain in a car on the wildlife drive diminishes the possible experience of any group, especially a group with a scope, which cannot be used by multiple people (the best teaching tool for groups). It also diminishes the potential experience for kids and anyone who would like to get out and get a closer look. I'm hearing a lot of 1%-er talk, I want to optimize my experience, and the riff-raff should just stay away (or stay in their cars). I am as guilty (or more) as anyone of wanting to have the entire refuge to myself. But in the bigger picture, I don't see having too many people enjoying nature at Montezuma as the problem. I think it's quite the opposite: there are too FEW people learning about nature there. Those of us interested in nature and supportive of the National Wildlife Refuge system should want EVERYONE to get out of their cars and poke around. I WANT people to peer through the reeds and see a turtle (or maybe a rail). I WANT people to stop and take pictures of the flowers. I WANT people to get out and marvel at a muskrat mound, and then have a young Bald Eagle fly over their heads. (It's hard to look up from a back seat.) In my personal opinion, anything
Re: RE: [cayugabirds-l] ...pedestrians on the Wildlife Drive :(
Kevin and Meena hit the nail on the head. Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
RE: [cayugabirds-l] ...pedestrians on the Wildlife Drive :(
I am sorry, my brain and hands do not co-ordinate! My brain reads whatever it has to be and my hands type whatever they like! Chimney Swifts are having gala time in front of my office window very often, I think the juveniles have joined the adults and 8 to 9 of them keep flying in circles chattering very excitedly. Cheers Meena -Original Message- From: bounce-117687193-3493...@list.cornell.edu [mailto:bounce-117687193-3493...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Meena Madhav Haribal Sent: Monday, August 04, 2014 1:15 PM To: Linda Orkin Cc: Kevin J. McGowan; CAYUGABIRDS-L Subject: RE: [cayugabirds-l] ...pedestrians on the Wildlife Drive :( Sorry for the major typo- read comprises and compromises! -Original Message- From: Linda Orkin [mailto:wingmagi...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, August 04, 2014 1:12 PM To: Meena Madhav Haribal Cc: Kevin J. McGowan; CAYUGABIRDS-L Subject: Re: [cayugabirds-l] ...pedestrians on the Wildlife Drive :( Kevin and Meena's points and passions are wonderful guiding principles on the ways we interact with, enjoy, and respect nature. I would love to be involved in some group discussions and creative recommendations. They don't say get out into nature...but stay in your car while doing it. Linda Sent from my iPhone On Aug 4, 2014, at 12:44 PM, Meena Madhav Haribal m...@cornell.edu wrote: Hi Kevin and all, Great thoughts Kevin! I am with you on these points! Also I would like enjoy other creatures too, it is a wildlife refuge not just for birds. I would like to see a dragonfly or a flower or a digger wasp making it home for its progeny. You can't see a digger wasp from your car! So the refuges are not meant for specifically birds or birders. Unless people enjoy the nature they will not support nature conservation. Most of the people who come there want to enjoy nature not just birders. Basic thing needed is educating the public about their behavior. If a person stands at one location for long time enough without harassing a bird then they are as effective as cars. Also everybody is not interested in photographing a bird. If they see some actions by birds they are happy about it! Having said that, I would also suggest that there could be comprises. At strategic locations there could be blinds or shelters. Also walks could be open for certain time of the day, so as to get birds a chance to do what they are supposed to do. For example the dykes on the Knox Marsellus could be open to public to walk for certain hours of the day. As it is birds are miles away. If we all together put in our efforts we can make solid recommendations to the refuge or if the refuge managers are reading e-mails they themselves can think of some of the alternatives. If we want people to enjoy nature they should see them up close, a shorebird three miles away has not effect on a general public than a bird close at hand and watching its behaviors. Then only they will support conservation! We need people to enjoy the nature and love it! Hope we will make some changes! Cheers Meena -Original Message- From: bounce-117686987-3493...@list.cornell.edu [mailto:bounce-117686987-3493...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Kevin J. McGowan Sent: Monday, August 04, 2014 12:03 PM To: CAYUGABIRDS-L Subject: RE: [cayugabirds-l] ...pedestrians on the Wildlife Drive :( Of course birds let you get closer when you're in a car. That's as true at Stewart Park and along any back road as it is in Montezuma. I do a ton of observation and photography from my car, sometimes even in my own driveway. That's great for one person, but it stinks for groups. Having to remain in a car on the wildlife drive diminishes the possible experience of any group, especially a group with a scope, which cannot be used by multiple people (the best teaching tool for groups). It also diminishes the potential experience for kids and anyone who would like to get out and get a closer look. I'm hearing a lot of 1%-er talk, I want to optimize my experience, and the riff-raff should just stay away (or stay in their cars). I am as guilty (or more) as anyone of wanting to have the entire refuge to myself. But in the bigger picture, I don't see having too many people enjoying nature at Montezuma as the problem. I think it's quite the opposite: there are too FEW people learning about nature there. Those of us interested in nature and supportive of the National Wildlife Refuge system should want EVERYONE to get out of their cars and poke around. I WANT people to peer through the reeds and see a turtle (or maybe a rail). I WANT people to stop and take pictures of the flowers. I WANT people to get out and marvel at a muskrat mound, and then have a young Bald Eagle fly over their heads. (It's hard to look up from a back seat.) In my personal opinion, anything that reduces the availability of wildlife