Re: [cayugabirds-l] Pochard?
Hi all, I have been doing a little bit of reading about Red-crested Pochards in Europe, and it seems that they have histories of both: (1) natural colonization based on long-distance mass movement, and (2) becoming established due to introductions. According to the text in the second European Breeding Bird Atlas, the species did not live in Europe until the 1800s, with speculation that they became established mostly in Spain following severe drought and dispersal from the core of their range in Central Asia. The speculation continues that the species then moved northward and eastward into central Europe from Spain. The European and Central Asian populations have been shown to now be genetically distinct. Also, the move northward out of Spain really began in earnest in the 1980s, again at a time of drought (this time in Spain). So, these birds do seem to be capable of large-scale vagrancy/establishment. However, the British population is considered feral (they are more than a regular vagrant in the U.K., but local breeders in the south and east of England) according to the most recent British and European breeding bird atlases. The species first appeared in the U.K. in 1937, outside of the period of natural range expansion. Even vagrancy of continental birds from the European continent would not require much travel, because the species has been established in the Netherlands for a long time (I vaguely remember speculation in the 1980s as to whether the birds in the Netherlands were natural dispersers or introduced). Based on what I've seen of Red-crested Pochards in Germany and Switzerland, Cayuga Lake is the sort of place that a Red-crested Pochard would want to live in the winter: they winter in similar, large lakes in central Europe. However, hanging out with Redheads may not be entirely within the pochard's comfort zone, because I typically have seen them closer to shore, especially when feeding making short-duration dives. However, these pochards are sociable outside of the nesting season, I think, because I cannot recall ever seeing a single Red-crested Pochard by itself...although the largest cohesive groups that I have seen have only been of 10-20 birds. Oh, and the aforementioned European bird atlas describes their food as larger underwater plants of the family Characeae. Oh, and here's a little back story on the way that eBird is now treating reports of birds like this Red-crested Pochard. The underlying motivation is to collect data on species before they become established in a new region. Many birders would not report species that the birding community did not consider to be established and "countable", because these exotic species would be contaminating said birders' eBird-reported life lists. The desire to keep a "pure" life list would mean that species that were in the process of becoming established would be under-reported into the eBird database by the birding community as a whole. This led to the very recent changes to eBird's outputs in which any species not regionally recognized as established is being treated separately in various ways. For details, here's the URL of the webpage that introduces these changes: https://ebird.org/news/important-changes-to-exotic-species-in-ebird<https://ebird.org/news/important-changes-to-exotic-species-in-ebird?fs=e=cl> Wesley From: bounce-127060160-3494...@list.cornell.edu on behalf of Dave Nutter Sent: Friday, December 30, 2022 21:56 To: Kenneth V. Rosenberg Cc: Kevin J. McGowan ; Laura Stenzler ; CAYUGABIRDS-L ; Suan Hsi-Yong b Subject: Re: [cayugabirds-l] Pochard? On the basis of Ken’s thoughtful observation that this individual’s behavior - traveling with an active flock of migrants - supports it also being a wild migrant, and to ensure that this record is noted as perhaps the first such instance here, I’m going to add it to the Cayuga Lake Basin First Records List. - - Dave Nutter On Dec 30, 2022, at 7:45 PM, Kenneth V. Rosenberg mailto:k...@cornell.edu>> wrote: Just to stir the pot on this one, I’ll point out that (1) Red-crested Pochard is a migratory species in Europe and a regular vagrant to Great Britain, (2) This past couple of months we have seen a large influx of European vagrants in northeastern North America (N. Lapwings, an immature Common Shelduck, even a Eurasian Blackbird), and (3) I remember in the 1960s when Tufted Ducks in the U.S. were thought to be escapes (before there were enough records to establish a pattern of natural occurrence). I would speculate that the chances of a female Red-crested Pochard in a flock of wild and highly mobile Redhead being an “escape” from captivity is close to zero. Ken Ken Rosenberg (he/him/his) Applied Conservation Scientist, Retired Cornell Lab of Ornithology k...@cornell.edu<mailto:k...@cornell.edu> Cell: 607-342-
Re: [cayugabirds-l] Pochard?
Just received the Murray McMurray Hatchery catalog. This discussion prompted me to look there and elsewhere for the availability of Red Crested Pochard Hatchlings. Turns out they are offered by lots of hatcheries, though at $150 - $300 per pair, they’re aimed at bird fanciers rather than common barnyards. -Geo -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
Re: [cayugabirds-l] Pochard?
On the basis of Ken’s thoughtful observation that this individual’s behavior - traveling with an active flock of migrants - supports it also being a wild migrant, and to ensure that this record is noted as perhaps the first such instance here, I’m going to add it to the Cayuga Lake Basin First Records List. - - Dave Nutter > On Dec 30, 2022, at 7:45 PM, Kenneth V. Rosenberg wrote: > > Just to stir the pot on this one, I’ll point out that (1) Red-crested Pochard > is a migratory species in Europe and a regular vagrant to Great Britain, (2) > This past couple of months we have seen a large influx of European vagrants > in northeastern North America (N. Lapwings, an immature Common Shelduck, even > a Eurasian Blackbird), and (3) I remember in the 1960s when Tufted Ducks in > the U.S. were thought to be escapes (before there were enough records to > establish a pattern of natural occurrence). > > I would speculate that the chances of a female Red-crested Pochard in a flock > of wild and highly mobile Redhead being an “escape” from captivity is close > to zero. > > Ken > > Ken Rosenberg (he/him/his) > Applied Conservation Scientist, Retired > Cornell Lab of Ornithology > k...@cornell.edu > Cell: 607-342-4594 > > > From: bounce-127060114-3493...@list.cornell.edu > on behalf of Kevin J. McGowan > > Date: Friday, December 30, 2022 at 5:56 PM > To: Dave Nutter , Laura Stenzler > Cc: CAYUGABIRDS-L > Subject: RE: Re:[cayugabirds-l] Pochard? > > The identity of the bird on Cayuga Lake is unquestioned; it was a female > Red-crested Pochard. It’s a subtle, but diagnostic ID (congrats to Nick Sly > for picking it out and identifying it). However, there are no accepted > records of this species as being wild in North America. It does not appear on > the AOS or ABA checklists for North American Birds. > > Kevin > From: bounce-127060071-3493...@list.cornell.edu > On Behalf Of Dave Nutter > Sent: Friday, December 30, 2022 3:50 PM > To: Laura Stenzler > Cc: CAYUGABIRDS-L > Subject: Re:[cayugabirds-l] Pochard? > > Hi Laura & All, > > If you look at the eBird range map for Red-crested Pochard, it’s pink across > most of Europe and Asia, meaning it’s native there. In the UK, however, it’s > yellow, meaning the species is introduced. In the US, there are only a few > scattered yellow rectangles, and if you click the option to “exclude escapes” > then the US goes blank, but the UK stays solid yellow. In other words, the > introduced Red-crested Pochards have become a naturalized self-sustaining > population, but in the US there’s no reason to believe the few isolated birds > arrived here on their own or are self-sustaining. Male Red-crested Pochards > are quite showy, so it’s a popular bird among fanciers, and that’s the > presumed source. As far as eBird is concerned, seeing this species in the US > gets treated the same as the pet Budgie that you saw fly out of your > neighbor’s window and added to your yard list. It doesn’t show up on rare > bird alerts. Perhaps because the East Shore sightings are so new, as of this > afternoon they did not even cause a yellow rectangle to appear. I had to > engage the “show points sooner” option, and zoom way in for these reports to > show up. I don’t know whether or how they get reviewed, but a bunch of us are > recorded as seeing it. > > For comparison, there are more rectangles in the US for Tufted Duck, and they > are all pink, so they are assumed to have arrived from the Old World on their > own. > > Ring-necked Pheasant is definitely not native, and we know a local source of > them is the DEC Game Farm, either as escapes or deliberate releases, yet the > yellow eBird map does not change - at least when zoomed out - when the > “exclude escapes” option is engaged. > > Northern Bobwhite is native to the US, and in NYS some of the eBird > rectangles are pink (native) and some are yellow (escaped/introduced). All > the yellow rectangles go blank when the “exclude escapes” option is engaged. > > European Goldfinch has many rectangles, all yellow, in the US, and most > disappear when “exclude escapes” is engaged. But there are self-sustaining > populations in NYC, from Chicago north through eastern WI, and in Detroit & > Ann Arbor. > > > - - Dave Nutter > > On Dec 29, 2022, at 3:51 PM, Laura Stenzler wrote: > > Hi David, > Was that red crested pochard ever confirmed? > > Laura > > Laura Stenzler > l...@cornell.edu > -- > Cayugabirds-L List Info: > Welcome and Basics > Rules and Information > Subscribe, Configuration and Leave > Archives: > The Mail Archive > Surfbirds > BirdingOnThe
Re: Re:[cayugabirds-l] Pochard?
Just to stir the pot on this one, I’ll point out that (1) Red-crested Pochard is a migratory species in Europe and a regular vagrant to Great Britain, (2) This past couple of months we have seen a large influx of European vagrants in northeastern North America (N. Lapwings, an immature Common Shelduck, even a Eurasian Blackbird), and (3) I remember in the 1960s when Tufted Ducks in the U.S. were thought to be escapes (before there were enough records to establish a pattern of natural occurrence). I would speculate that the chances of a female Red-crested Pochard in a flock of wild and highly mobile Redhead being an “escape” from captivity is close to zero. Ken Ken Rosenberg (he/him/his) Applied Conservation Scientist, Retired Cornell Lab of Ornithology k...@cornell.edu<mailto:k...@cornell.edu> Cell: 607-342-4594 From: bounce-127060114-3493...@list.cornell.edu on behalf of Kevin J. McGowan Date: Friday, December 30, 2022 at 5:56 PM To: Dave Nutter , Laura Stenzler Cc: CAYUGABIRDS-L Subject: RE: Re:[cayugabirds-l] Pochard? The identity of the bird on Cayuga Lake is unquestioned; it was a female Red-crested Pochard. It’s a subtle, but diagnostic ID (congrats to Nick Sly for picking it out and identifying it). However, there are no accepted records of this species as being wild in North America. It does not appear on the AOS or ABA checklists for North American Birds. Kevin From: bounce-127060071-3493...@list.cornell.edu On Behalf Of Dave Nutter Sent: Friday, December 30, 2022 3:50 PM To: Laura Stenzler Cc: CAYUGABIRDS-L Subject: Re:[cayugabirds-l] Pochard? Hi Laura & All, If you look at the eBird range map for Red-crested Pochard, it’s pink across most of Europe and Asia, meaning it’s native there. In the UK, however, it’s yellow, meaning the species is introduced. In the US, there are only a few scattered yellow rectangles, and if you click the option to “exclude escapes” then the US goes blank, but the UK stays solid yellow. In other words, the introduced Red-crested Pochards have become a naturalized self-sustaining population, but in the US there’s no reason to believe the few isolated birds arrived here on their own or are self-sustaining. Male Red-crested Pochards are quite showy, so it’s a popular bird among fanciers, and that’s the presumed source. As far as eBird is concerned, seeing this species in the US gets treated the same as the pet Budgie that you saw fly out of your neighbor’s window and added to your yard list. It doesn’t show up on rare bird alerts. Perhaps because the East Shore sightings are so new, as of this afternoon they did not even cause a yellow rectangle to appear. I had to engage the “show points sooner” option, and zoom way in for these reports to show up. I don’t know whether or how they get reviewed, but a bunch of us are recorded as seeing it. For comparison, there are more rectangles in the US for Tufted Duck, and they are all pink, so they are assumed to have arrived from the Old World on their own. Ring-necked Pheasant is definitely not native, and we know a local source of them is the DEC Game Farm, either as escapes or deliberate releases, yet the yellow eBird map does not change - at least when zoomed out - when the “exclude escapes” option is engaged. Northern Bobwhite is native to the US, and in NYS some of the eBird rectangles are pink (native) and some are yellow (escaped/introduced). All the yellow rectangles go blank when the “exclude escapes” option is engaged. European Goldfinch has many rectangles, all yellow, in the US, and most disappear when “exclude escapes” is engaged. But there are self-sustaining populations in NYC, from Chicago north through eastern WI, and in Detroit & Ann Arbor. - - Dave Nutter On Dec 29, 2022, at 3:51 PM, Laura Stenzler mailto:l...@cornell.edu>> wrote: Hi David, Was that red crested pochard ever confirmed? Laura Laura Stenzler l...@cornell.edu<mailto:l...@cornell.edu> -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: Welcome and Basics<http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME> Rules and Information<http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave<http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm> Archives: The Mail Archive<http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html> Surfbirds<http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds> BirdingOnThe.Net<http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html> Please submit your observations to eBird<http://ebird.org/content/ebird/>! -- -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: Welcome and Basics<http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME> Rules and Information<http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave<http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm> Archives: The Mail Archive<http://www.mail-archive.co
RE: Re:[cayugabirds-l] Pochard?
The identity of the bird on Cayuga Lake is unquestioned; it was a female Red-crested Pochard. It’s a subtle, but diagnostic ID (congrats to Nick Sly for picking it out and identifying it). However, there are no accepted records of this species as being wild in North America. It does not appear on the AOS or ABA checklists for North American Birds. Kevin From: bounce-127060071-3493...@list.cornell.edu On Behalf Of Dave Nutter Sent: Friday, December 30, 2022 3:50 PM To: Laura Stenzler Cc: CAYUGABIRDS-L Subject: Re:[cayugabirds-l] Pochard? Hi Laura & All, If you look at the eBird range map for Red-crested Pochard, it’s pink across most of Europe and Asia, meaning it’s native there. In the UK, however, it’s yellow, meaning the species is introduced. In the US, there are only a few scattered yellow rectangles, and if you click the option to “exclude escapes” then the US goes blank, but the UK stays solid yellow. In other words, the introduced Red-crested Pochards have become a naturalized self-sustaining population, but in the US there’s no reason to believe the few isolated birds arrived here on their own or are self-sustaining. Male Red-crested Pochards are quite showy, so it’s a popular bird among fanciers, and that’s the presumed source. As far as eBird is concerned, seeing this species in the US gets treated the same as the pet Budgie that you saw fly out of your neighbor’s window and added to your yard list. It doesn’t show up on rare bird alerts. Perhaps because the East Shore sightings are so new, as of this afternoon they did not even cause a yellow rectangle to appear. I had to engage the “show points sooner” option, and zoom way in for these reports to show up. I don’t know whether or how they get reviewed, but a bunch of us are recorded as seeing it. For comparison, there are more rectangles in the US for Tufted Duck, and they are all pink, so they are assumed to have arrived from the Old World on their own. Ring-necked Pheasant is definitely not native, and we know a local source of them is the DEC Game Farm, either as escapes or deliberate releases, yet the yellow eBird map does not change - at least when zoomed out - when the “exclude escapes” option is engaged. Northern Bobwhite is native to the US, and in NYS some of the eBird rectangles are pink (native) and some are yellow (escaped/introduced). All the yellow rectangles go blank when the “exclude escapes” option is engaged. European Goldfinch has many rectangles, all yellow, in the US, and most disappear when “exclude escapes” is engaged. But there are self-sustaining populations in NYC, from Chicago north through eastern WI, and in Detroit & Ann Arbor. - - Dave Nutter On Dec 29, 2022, at 3:51 PM, Laura Stenzler mailto:l...@cornell.edu>> wrote: Hi David, Was that red crested pochard ever confirmed? Laura Laura Stenzler l...@cornell.edu<mailto:l...@cornell.edu> -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: Welcome and Basics<http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME> Rules and Information<http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave<http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm> Archives: The Mail Archive<http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html> Surfbirds<http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds> BirdingOnThe.Net<http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html> Please submit your observations to eBird<http://ebird.org/content/ebird/>! -- -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
Re:[cayugabirds-l] Pochard?
Hi Laura & All, If you look at the eBird range map for Red-crested Pochard, it’s pink across most of Europe and Asia, meaning it’s native there. In the UK, however, it’s yellow, meaning the species is introduced. In the US, there are only a few scattered yellow rectangles, and if you click the option to “exclude escapes” then the US goes blank, but the UK stays solid yellow. In other words, the introduced Red-crested Pochards have become a naturalized self-sustaining population, but in the US there’s no reason to believe the few isolated birds arrived here on their own or are self-sustaining. Male Red-crested Pochards are quite showy, so it’s a popular bird among fanciers, and that’s the presumed source. As far as eBird is concerned, seeing this species in the US gets treated the same as the pet Budgie that you saw fly out of your neighbor’s window and added to your yard list. It doesn’t show up on rare bird alerts. Perhaps because the East Shore sightings are so new, as of this afternoon they did not even cause a yellow rectangle to appear. I had to engage the “show points sooner” option, and zoom way in for these reports to show up. I don’t know whether or how they get reviewed, but a bunch of us are recorded as seeing it. For comparison, there are more rectangles in the US for Tufted Duck, and they are all pink, so they are assumed to have arrived from the Old World on their own. Ring-necked Pheasant is definitely not native, and we know a local source of them is the DEC Game Farm, either as escapes or deliberate releases, yet the yellow eBird map does not change - at least when zoomed out - when the “exclude escapes” option is engaged. Northern Bobwhite is native to the US, and in NYS some of the eBird rectangles are pink (native) and some are yellow (escaped/introduced). All the yellow rectangles go blank when the “exclude escapes” option is engaged. European Goldfinch has many rectangles, all yellow, in the US, and most disappear when “exclude escapes” is engaged. But there are self-sustaining populations in NYC, from Chicago north through eastern WI, and in Detroit & Ann Arbor. - - Dave Nutter > On Dec 29, 2022, at 3:51 PM, Laura Stenzler wrote: > > Hi David, > Was that red crested pochard ever confirmed? > > Laura > > Laura Stenzler > l...@cornell.edu -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
