Re: [cayugabirds-l] weekend birds, hunting pressure

[Kenneth V. Rosenberg]

Hi all,

I knew I would regret starting this annual conversation, but it is an important 
one to keep having. I will just point out that if waterfowl hunting (and 
associated population management) had not started in the U.S. in 1933, we would 
have no huge migratory flocks of ducks and geese, and no refuges and other 
beautiful preserved wetlands to visit. We would be like most other countries in 
having a combination of unregulated hunting and horribly depleted wildlife 
populations and degraded wetland habitat. OUr system is the world model for 
adaptive wildlife management -- and it is all based on the voice and monetary 
support of the hunting constituency (will also point out that their support is 
mandatory, through license fees and taxes on hunting related merchandise). That 
is how the whole system of wildlife refuges and management is set up. If the 
vast and growing birding community would like to have more of a say in all of 
this then the answer is simple -- we need to build a system that will 
contribute the hundreds of millions of dollars needed to implement the 
conservation of bird habitat (including forests, grasslands, and other 
non-wetland habitats). Attempts to set up such a system based on non 
consumptive  wildlife user support have met resistance from our own industries 
and our own organizations, and have ultimately failed. It is past time for 
birders to put our money where our mouths are.

Tirades aside, the simplest solution for us locally is to move the Ithaca CBC 
to accommodate the conflicting use of our count area. As Laura suggests, an 
earlier count date will attract more area birders and will have negligible 
affect on our long-term data, compared with the major disturbance caused by the 
late hunting season.

KEN


Ken Rosenberg
Conservation Science Program
Cornell Lab of Ornithology
607-254-2412
607-342-4594 (cell)
k...@cornell.edu

On Dec 30, 2013, at 7:52 AM, Linda Orkin 
mailto:wingmagi...@gmail.com>>
 wrote:

The opinion that follows is strictly my own and does not reflect any official 
position of the Cayuga Bird Club. Although I wish it did.

I will not be one of the ones that says I have nothing against hunting because 
I do, sorry.

But even if I thought hunting was a great thing, I feel it is totally bizarre 
to have this slaughter, harassment and disregard for life going on right INSIDE 
our own city limits in a public park where any and all are exposed to this 
carnage and risk.

I am attaching a link to the article that Jane Graves discovered and published 
in our October newsletter re:the imposition of waterfowl hunting  in 1933. Too 
bad it was ever started. I would support Dave's suggestion to petition the DEC 
to rescind this permission at the south end of the lake.

http://cayugabirdclub.blogspot.com/2013/10/a-note-from-past.html

Have a great count day on January 1. There's still time to sign up if you'd 
like. Email me.

Linda Orkin


Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 29, 2013, at 10:51 PM, Dave Nutter 
mailto:nutter.d...@me.com>> wrote:

Perhaps the line of fire & proximity of people & buildings was the reason the 
DEC police called in the gunners who were in the SW corner of the lake tied to 
a tree along the shore of Treman. I saw in the background 2 adults and a child 
on the beach of the west shore, associated with the first house, a large new 
one.

I'd like to petition the DEC to have the south end of the lake, say the portion 
within the City of Ithaca, which does not allow firing guns, off limits to 
hunting.

--Dave Nutter

On Dec 29, 2013, at 08:47 PM, Anne Clark 
mailto:anneb.cl...@gmail.com>> wrote:

It sounds as if some of these folks might be illegally close to buildings, 
although I suppose they argue that their guns are pointing down the lake.  On 
the other hand, in the park area, trails and inlets make a complex problem for 
claiming that nothing could be in the line of fire when shooting at ducks 
flying in and over.  Do they really stop firing when the ducks swing toward 
shore?

Per the DEC hunting regulations

Question: How far from a building do I have to be to discharge my firearm?
Answer: You cannot discharge a firearm or bow within 500 feet of any school, 
playground, occupied factory or church. You cannot discharge a firearm or bow 
within 500 feet of a dwelling, farm building, or structure unless you own it, 
lease it, are an immediate member of the family, an employee, or have the 
owner's consent. This does not apply to the discharge of a shotgun over water 
when hunting migratory game birds and no dwelling, public structure, livestock, 
or person is in the line of fire.

On Dec 29, 2013, at 5:07 PM, Kenneth V. Rosenberg wrote:

I birded at East Shore Park on Saturday mid-day, and at Stewart Park this 
morning -- I must say that I have never seen so much hunting pressure at the 
south end of the lake. I want to say clearly that I am not against legal duck 
hunting in well managed areas (and I buy a Mi

RE: [cayugabirds-l] weekend birds, hunting pressure

[Kevin J. McGowan]

...  Do they really stop firing when the ducks swing toward shore?


I would say yes.  One of the first things you get taught in firearm safety 
class (which is mandatory in New York for all first-time hunting licenses) is 
to always be aware of where your muzzle is pointing.  Always.  Most people 
hunting with a partner are pretty aware of where their partner's gun is 
pointing, too.  Obviously some people are going to be better at being cautious 
and not careless than others, but that line between safe/not safe is probably 
more distinct for a gunner than you might think.

Kevin


--

Cayugabirds-L List Info:
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm

ARCHIVES:
1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html
2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds
3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html

Please submit your observations to eBird:
http://ebird.org/content/ebird/

--

Re: [cayugabirds-l] weekend birds, hunting pressure

[John and Sue Gregoire]

If you have journeyed over to Seneca Lake you have seen the numerous duck blinds
just off shore of the park where there is precious little shallow water.
Representation was made to the state and village several years ago and I forget 
the
legalese but in layman's terms the large lakes come under state jurisdiction 
and the
DEC reading was that such hunting with blinds and decoys was quite legal despite
proximity to shoreline and docks east and west.

It would be a shame to change a traditional date for the CBC and moving may 
cause
conflicts with other counts. Why not advocate buying duck and habitat stamps 
and ask
the local fish and game clubs to weigh in on possible solutions. Perhaps they 
would
as a group help with the count instead of hunting on the CBC day?

John
-- 
John and Sue Gregoire
Field Ornithologists
Kestrel Haven Avian Migration Observatory
5373 Fitzgerald Road
Burdett,NY 14818-9626
 Website: http://www.empacc.net/~kestrelhaven/
"Conserve and Create Habitat"

On Mon, December 30, 2013 07:52, Linda Orkin wrote:
> The opinion that follows is strictly my own and does not reflect any official
> position of the Cayuga Bird Club. Although I wish it did.
>
> I will not be one of the ones that says I have nothing against hunting 
> because I do,
> sorry.
>
> But even if I thought hunting was a great thing, I feel it is totally bizarre 
> to
> have this slaughter, harassment and disregard for life going on right INSIDE 
> our own
> city limits in a public park where any and all are exposed to this carnage 
> and risk.
>
> I am attaching a link to the article that Jane Graves discovered and 
> published in
> our October newsletter re:the imposition of waterfowl hunting  in 1933. Too 
> bad it
> was ever started. I would support Dave's suggestion to petition the DEC to 
> rescind
> this permission at the south end of the lake.
>
> http://cayugabirdclub.blogspot.com/2013/10/a-note-from-past.html
>
> Have a great count day on January 1. There's still time to sign up if you'd 
> like.
> Email me.
>
> Linda Orkin
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 29, 2013, at 10:51 PM, Dave Nutter  wrote:
>>
>> Perhaps the line of fire & proximity of people & buildings was the reason 
>> the DEC
>> police called in the gunners who were in the SW corner of the lake tied to a 
>> tree
>> along the shore of Treman. I saw in the background 2 adults and a child on 
>> the
>> beach of the west shore, associated with the first house, a large new one.
>>
>> I'd like to petition the DEC to have the south end of the lake, say the 
>> portion
>> within the City of Ithaca, which does not allow firing guns, off limits to
>> hunting.
>> --Dave Nutter
>>
>>> On Dec 29, 2013, at 08:47 PM, Anne Clark  wrote:
>>>
>>> It sounds as if some of these folks might be illegally close to buildings,
>>> although I suppose they argue that their guns are pointing down the lake.  
>>> On the
>>> other hand, in the park area, trails and inlets make a complex problem for
>>> claiming that nothing could be in the line of fire when shooting at ducks 
>>> flying
>>> in and over.  Do they really stop firing when the ducks swing toward shore?
>>>
>>> Per the DEC hunting regulations
>>>
>>> Question: How far from a building do I have to be to discharge my firearm?
>>> Answer: You cannot discharge a firearm or bow within 500 feet of any school,
>>> playground, occupied factory or church. You cannot discharge a firearm or 
>>> bow
>>> within 500 feet of a dwelling, farm building, or structure unless you own 
>>> it,
>>> lease it, are an immediate member of the family, an employee, or have the 
>>> owner's
>>> consent. This does not apply to the discharge of a shotgun over water when
>>> hunting migratory game birds and no dwelling, public structure, livestock, 
>>> or
>>> person is in the line of fire.
>>>
 On Dec 29, 2013, at 5:07 PM, Kenneth V. Rosenberg wrote:

 I birded at East Shore Park on Saturday mid-day, and at Stewart Park this
 morning -- I must say that I have never seen so much hunting pressure at 
 the
 south end of the lake. I want to say clearly that I am not against legal 
 duck
 hunting in well managed areas (and I buy a Migratory Bird Stamp to support
 wetland conservation), but what is going on this year does not seem to be
 sustainable or an appropriate use of such a large public space. Boats with
 hunters and decoys were anchored right under the trees at the Swan Pen at
 Stewart Park, at the tip of the red lighthouse jetty, at the wooden buoy 
 marker,
 on the beach at Hogs Hole, and along East Shore -- yesterday there was an
 additional boat cruising the center of the lake to chase duck flocks. 
 Needless
 to say there was not a single spot for ducks to rest safely anywhere in the
 southern quarter-mile or so of Cayuga Lake (and probably north past Myer's 
 Point
 as well), and any flock that circled around over the south end of the lake 
 (no
 ma

Re: [cayugabirds-l] weekend birds, hunting pressure

[Linda Orkin]

The opinion that follows is strictly my own and does not reflect any official 
position of the Cayuga Bird Club. Although I wish it did. 

I will not be one of the ones that says I have nothing against hunting because 
I do, sorry. 

But even if I thought hunting was a great thing, I feel it is totally bizarre 
to have this slaughter, harassment and disregard for life going on right INSIDE 
our own city limits in a public park where any and all are exposed to this 
carnage and risk.  

I am attaching a link to the article that Jane Graves discovered and published 
in our October newsletter re:the imposition of waterfowl hunting  in 1933. Too 
bad it was ever started. I would support Dave's suggestion to petition the DEC 
to rescind this permission at the south end of the lake. 

http://cayugabirdclub.blogspot.com/2013/10/a-note-from-past.html

Have a great count day on January 1. There's still time to sign up if you'd 
like. Email me. 

Linda Orkin


Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 29, 2013, at 10:51 PM, Dave Nutter  wrote:
> 
> Perhaps the line of fire & proximity of people & buildings was the reason the 
> DEC police called in the gunners who were in the SW corner of the lake tied 
> to a tree along the shore of Treman. I saw in the background 2 adults and a 
> child on the beach of the west shore, associated with the first house, a 
> large new one. 
> 
> I'd like to petition the DEC to have the south end of the lake, say the 
> portion within the City of Ithaca, which does not allow firing guns, off 
> limits to hunting. 
> --Dave Nutter
> 
>> On Dec 29, 2013, at 08:47 PM, Anne Clark  wrote:
>> 
>> It sounds as if some of these folks might be illegally close to buildings, 
>> although I suppose they argue that their guns are pointing down the lake.  
>> On the other hand, in the park area, trails and inlets make a complex 
>> problem for claiming that nothing could be in the line of fire when shooting 
>> at ducks flying in and over.  Do they really stop firing when the ducks 
>> swing toward shore?
>> 
>> Per the DEC hunting regulations
>> 
>> Question: How far from a building do I have to be to discharge my firearm?
>> Answer: You cannot discharge a firearm or bow within 500 feet of any school, 
>> playground, occupied factory or church. You cannot discharge a firearm or 
>> bow within 500 feet of a dwelling, farm building, or structure unless you 
>> own it, lease it, are an immediate member of the family, an employee, or 
>> have the owner's consent. This does not apply to the discharge of a shotgun 
>> over water when hunting migratory game birds and no dwelling, public 
>> structure, livestock, or person is in the line of fire.
>> 
>>> On Dec 29, 2013, at 5:07 PM, Kenneth V. Rosenberg wrote:
>>> 
>>> I birded at East Shore Park on Saturday mid-day, and at Stewart Park this 
>>> morning -- I must say that I have never seen so much hunting pressure at 
>>> the south end of the lake. I want to say clearly that I am not against 
>>> legal duck hunting in well managed areas (and I buy a Migratory Bird Stamp 
>>> to support wetland conservation), but what is going on this year does not 
>>> seem to be sustainable or an appropriate use of such a large public space. 
>>> Boats with hunters and decoys were anchored right under the trees at the 
>>> Swan Pen at Stewart Park, at the tip of the red lighthouse jetty, at the 
>>> wooden buoy marker, on the beach at Hogs Hole, and along East Shore -- 
>>> yesterday there was an additional boat cruising the center of the lake to 
>>> chase duck flocks. Needless to say there was not a single spot for ducks to 
>>> rest safely anywhere in the southern quarter-mile or so of Cayuga Lake (and 
>>> probably north past Myer's Point as well), and any flock that circled 
>>> around over the south end of the lake (no matter how high) was shot at. I 
>>> don't know if DEC would consider that proper management of this important 
>>> waterfowl wintering area. This seemed pretty different from the past few 
>>> years when a few hunters kept the duck flocks moving around but there was 
>>> plenty of place for them to rest -- notably along the Stewart Park 
>>> shoreline, which was not available today.
>>> 
>>> This activity will undoubtedly affect the numbers of waterfowl on this 
>>> year's Christmas Bird Count on Wednesday (wasn't much to count today). If 
>>> this trend continues in future years, I strongly recommend that the Cayuga 
>>> Bird Club move its count to the days prior to the late hunting season  -- 
>>> this slight straying from "tradition" will probably yield more accurate 
>>> numbers of local waterfowl populations.
>>> 
>>> In spite of the hunting, I did manage to see a few distant LONG-TAILED 
>>> DUCKS and a single WHITE-WINGED SCOTER far to the north of East Shore Park, 
>>> and a flock of 12 RUDDY DUCKS, along with HORNED and PIED-BIILED GREBES, 
>>> COMMON LOON, and 3 DOUBLE-CRESTED CORMORANTS -- all decent CBC birds if 
>>> they can hang in there. There w

Re: [cayugabirds-l] weekend birds, hunting pressure

[Dave Nutter]

Perhaps the line of fire & proximity of people & buildings was the reason the DEC police called in the gunners who were in the SW corner of the lake tied to a tree along the shore of Treman. I saw in the background 2 adults and a child on the beach of the west shore, associated with the first house, a large new one. I'd like to petition the DEC to have the south end of the lake, say the portion within the City of Ithaca, which does not allow firing guns, off limits to hunting. --Dave NutterOn Dec 29, 2013, at 08:47 PM, Anne Clark  wrote:It sounds as if some of these folks might be illegally close to buildings, although I suppose they argue that their guns are pointing down the lake.  On the other hand, in the park area, trails and inlets make a complex problem for claiming that nothing could be in the line of fire when shooting at ducks flying in and over.  Do they really stop firing when the ducks swing toward shore?Per the DEC hunting regulationsQuestion: How far from a building do I have to be to discharge my firearm? Answer: You cannot discharge a firearm or bow within 500 feet of any school, playground, occupied factory or church. You cannot discharge a firearm or bow within 500 feet of a dwelling, farm building, or structure unless you own it, lease it, are an immediate member of the family, an employee, or have the owner's consent. This does not apply to the discharge of a shotgun over water when hunting migratory game birds and no dwelling, public structure, livestock, or person is in the line of fire.On Dec 29, 2013, at 5:07 PM, Kenneth V. Rosenberg wrote:I birded at East Shore Park on Saturday mid-day, and at Stewart Park this morning -- I must say that I have never seen so much hunting pressure at the south end of the lake. I want to say clearly that I am not against legal duck hunting in well managed areas (and I buy a Migratory Bird Stamp to support wetland conservation), but what is going on this year does not seem to be sustainable or an appropriate use of such a large public space. Boats with hunters and decoys were anchored right under the trees at the Swan Pen at Stewart Park, at the tip of the red lighthouse jetty, at the wooden buoy marker, on the beach at Hogs Hole, and along East Shore -- yesterday there was an additional boat cruising the center of the lake to chase duck flocks. Needless to say there was not a single spot for ducks to rest safely anywhere in the southern quarter-mile or so of Cayuga Lake (and probably north past Myer's Point as well), and any flock that circled around over the south end of the lake (no matter how high) was shot at. I don't know if DEC would consider that proper management of this important waterfowl wintering area. This seemed pretty different from the past few years when a few hunters kept the duck flocks moving around but there was plenty of place for them to rest -- notably along the Stewart Park shoreline, which was not available today.This activity will undoubtedly affect the numbers of waterfowl on this year's Christmas Bird Count on Wednesday (wasn't much to count today). If this trend continues in future years, I strongly recommend that the Cayuga Bird Club move its count to the days prior to the late hunting season  -- this slight straying from "tradition" will probably yield more accurate numbers of local waterfowl populations.In spite of the hunting, I did manage to see a few distant LONG-TAILED DUCKS and a single WHITE-WINGED SCOTER far to the north of East Shore Park, and a flock of 12 RUDDY DUCKS, along with HORNED and PIED-BIILED GREBES, COMMON LOON, and 3 DOUBLE-CRESTED CORMORANTS -- all decent CBC birds if they can hang in there. There were also TUNDRA SWANS around this morning -- 2 on the ice at Stewart Park east end when I arrived, and a flock of 40-50 in the center of the lake way out. Later in the morning, as I was scouting around the Farmers Market and Community Gardens, several small flocks of swans passed over Ithaca heading south.Yesterday, at Taughannock Falls State Park, there were 2 (MYRTLE) YELLOW-RUMPED WARBLERS with chickadees at the lakeshore near the south end of the park. Let's hope some birds survive the next deep freeze,KEN  Ken Rosenberg Conservation Science Program Cornell Lab of Ornithology 607-254-2412 607-342-4594 (cell) k...@cornell.edu--Cayugabirds-L List Info:Welcome and Basics Rules and Information Subscribe, Configuration and Leave Archives:The Mail Archive Surfbirds BirdingOnThe.Net Please submit your observations to eBird!Cayugabirds-L List Info:Welcome and Basics Rules and Information Subscribe, Configuration and Leave Archives:The Mail Archive Surfbirds BirdingOnThe.Net Please submit your observations to eBird!--
--
Cayugabirds-L List Info:
Welcome and Basics
Rules and Information
Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
Archives:
The Mail Archive
Surfbirds
BirdingOnThe.Net
Please submit your observations to eBird!
--

Re: Fwd: Re: [cayugabirds-l] weekend birds, hunting pressure

[chuckgibson]

  Do not forget that all waterfowl hunters also must purchase a $15.00 Duck 
Stamp to hunt each year. The money spent on Duck Stamps provides acquisition 
funds for wildlife refuges such as the Montezuma Wildlife Refuge. As birders, 
you can also contribute by buying
Duck Stamps as a way to help buy additional lands.

Chuck Gibson 
Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2013 9:19 PM
To: CAYUGABIRDS-L 
Subject: Fwd: Re: [cayugabirds-l] weekend birds, hunting pressure


On 12/29/2013 20:29, bob mcguire wrote:

  Another though: how about petitioning the DEC to delay the start of the late 
waterfowl season at the south end of Cayuga lake until after January 1st? Why 
should the needs (?) of 15-20 hunters take precedence over a 100-year tradition 
& data collection (the Ithaca CXBC)? 

  Bob McGuire

  On Dec 29, 2013, at 5:07 PM, Kenneth V. Rosenberg wrote:

One of the reasons that hunters should take precedence is because they 
contribute $746 million (Annual amount of money spent by hunters in the United 
States on licenses and public land access fees).

$300 million — Additional monies contributed to wildlife conservation every 
year by the more than 10,000 private hunting-advocate organizations, like the 
National Wild Turkey Federation, Ducks Unlimited, and the Rocky Mountain Elk 
Foundation

$4.2 billion — Amount of money sportsmen have contributed to conservation 
through a 10% federal excise taxes on firearms, ammunition, and gear since the 
1937 Pittman-Robertson Act established the tax. Millions of acres of public-use 
land has been purchased, preserved, and maintained with this money.

I know we don't like to admit, but hunters actually do more for conservation of 
animal species and land than all other sources of funding for those things 
combined. We need to realize that much of what we have we owe to those who have 
actually paid for the places and animals we enjoy. If not for these funds MNWR 
would not be there. Many of our state parks would not be there. Not to mention 
how many bird and other species would be gone. 

Last year more than 556000 hunting and fishing licensees were issued in New 
York State. Divide that by 62 counties that comes out to an average of 8967 per 
county. if only 1% hunt waterfowl in Tompkins county that is about 90 hunters 
(I am sure there are more).  While I neither hunt (except with a camera) nor 
fish I do give due to those who do and pay for what I enjoy. As long as they 
are perusing their passion in a safe legal manner I think we owe them a break 
and thanks. It is more than 15-20.

Carl Steckler



--
Cayugabirds-L List Info:
Welcome and Basics
Rules and Information
Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
Archives:
The Mail Archive
Surfbirds
BirdingOnThe.Net
Please submit your observations to eBird!
--
--

Cayugabirds-L List Info:
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm

ARCHIVES:
1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html
2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds
3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html

Please submit your observations to eBird:
http://ebird.org/content/ebird/

--

Fwd: Re: [cayugabirds-l] weekend birds, hunting pressure

[Carl Steckler]

On 12/29/2013 20:29, bob mcguire wrote:
> Another though: how about petitioning the DEC to delay the start of 
> the late waterfowl season at the south end of Cayuga lake until after 
> January 1st? Why should the needs (?) of 15-20 hunters take precedence 
> over a 100-year tradition & data collection (the Ithaca CXBC)?
>
> Bob McGuire
> On Dec 29, 2013, at 5:07 PM, Kenneth V. Rosenberg wrote:
>
One of the reasons that hunters should take precedence is because they 
contribute $746 million (Annual amount of money spent by hunters in 
the United States on licenses and public land access fees).

  $300 million --- Additional monies contributed to 
wildlife conservation every year by the more than 10,000 
private hunting-advocate organizations, like the National Wild 
Turkey Federation, Ducks Unlimited, and the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation

$4.2 billion --- Amount of money sportsmen have contributed 
to conservation through a 10% federal excise taxes on 
firearms, ammunition, and gear since the 1937 Pittman-Robertson Act 
established the tax. Millions of acres of public-use land has been 
purchased, preserved, and maintained with this money.

I know we don't like to admit, but hunters actually do more for 
conservation of animal species and land than all other sources of 
funding for those things combined. We need to realize that much of what 
we have we owe to those who have actually paid for the places and 
animals we enjoy. If not for these funds MNWR would not be there. Many 
of our state parks would not be there. Not to mention how many bird and 
other species would be gone.

Last year more than 556000 hunting and fishing licensees were issued in 
New York State. Divide that by 62 counties that comes out to an average 
of 8967 per county. if only 1% hunt waterfowl in Tompkins county that is 
about 90 hunters (I am sure there are more).  While I neither hunt 
(except with a camera) nor fish I do give due to those who do and pay 
for what I enjoy. As long as they are perusing their passion in a safe 
legal manner I think we owe them a break and thanks. It is more than 15-20.

Carl Steckler



--

Cayugabirds-L List Info:
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm

ARCHIVES:
1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html
2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds
3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html

Please submit your observations to eBird:
http://ebird.org/content/ebird/

--

Re: [cayugabirds-l] weekend birds, hunting pressure

[Anne Clark]

It sounds as if some of these folks might be illegally close to buildings, 
although I suppose they argue that their guns are pointing down the lake.  On 
the other hand, in the park area, trails and inlets make a complex problem for 
claiming that nothing could be in the line of fire when shooting at ducks 
flying in and over.  Do they really stop firing when the ducks swing toward 
shore?

Per the DEC hunting regulations

Question: How far from a building do I have to be to discharge my firearm?
Answer: You cannot discharge a firearm or bow within 500 feet of any school, 
playground, occupied factory or church. You cannot discharge a firearm or bow 
within 500 feet of a dwelling, farm building, or structure unless you own it, 
lease it, are an immediate member of the family, an employee, or have the 
owner's consent. This does not apply to the discharge of a shotgun over water 
when hunting migratory game birds and no dwelling, public structure, livestock, 
or person is in the line of fire.

On Dec 29, 2013, at 5:07 PM, Kenneth V. Rosenberg wrote:

> I birded at East Shore Park on Saturday mid-day, and at Stewart Park this 
> morning -- I must say that I have never seen so much hunting pressure at the 
> south end of the lake. I want to say clearly that I am not against legal duck 
> hunting in well managed areas (and I buy a Migratory Bird Stamp to support 
> wetland conservation), but what is going on this year does not seem to be 
> sustainable or an appropriate use of such a large public space. Boats with 
> hunters and decoys were anchored right under the trees at the Swan Pen at 
> Stewart Park, at the tip of the red lighthouse jetty, at the wooden buoy 
> marker, on the beach at Hogs Hole, and along East Shore -- yesterday there 
> was an additional boat cruising the center of the lake to chase duck flocks. 
> Needless to say there was not a single spot for ducks to rest safely anywhere 
> in the southern quarter-mile or so of Cayuga Lake (and probably north past 
> Myer's Point as well), and any flock that circled around over the south end 
> of the lake (no matter how high) was shot at. I don't know if DEC would 
> consider that proper management of this important waterfowl wintering area. 
> This seemed pretty different from the past few years when a few hunters kept 
> the duck flocks moving around but there was plenty of place for them to rest 
> -- notably along the Stewart Park shoreline, which was not available today.
> 
> This activity will undoubtedly affect the numbers of waterfowl on this year's 
> Christmas Bird Count on Wednesday (wasn't much to count today). If this trend 
> continues in future years, I strongly recommend that the Cayuga Bird Club 
> move its count to the days prior to the late hunting season  -- this slight 
> straying from "tradition" will probably yield more accurate numbers of local 
> waterfowl populations.
> 
> In spite of the hunting, I did manage to see a few distant LONG-TAILED DUCKS 
> and a single WHITE-WINGED SCOTER far to the north of East Shore Park, and a 
> flock of 12 RUDDY DUCKS, along with HORNED and PIED-BIILED GREBES, COMMON 
> LOON, and 3 DOUBLE-CRESTED CORMORANTS -- all decent CBC birds if they can 
> hang in there. There were also TUNDRA SWANS around this morning -- 2 on the 
> ice at Stewart Park east end when I arrived, and a flock of 40-50 in the 
> center of the lake way out. Later in the morning, as I was scouting around 
> the Farmers Market and Community Gardens, several small flocks of swans 
> passed over Ithaca heading south.
> 
> Yesterday, at Taughannock Falls State Park, there were 2 (MYRTLE) 
> YELLOW-RUMPED WARBLERS with chickadees at the lakeshore near the south end of 
> the park. 
> 
> Let's hope some birds survive the next deep freeze,
> 
> KEN
> 
> 
> Ken Rosenberg
> Conservation Science Program
> Cornell Lab of Ornithology
> 607-254-2412
> 607-342-4594 (cell)
> k...@cornell.edu
> 
> --
> Cayugabirds-L List Info:
> Welcome and Basics
> Rules and Information
> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
> Archives:
> The Mail Archive
> Surfbirds
> BirdingOnThe.Net
> Please submit your observations to eBird!
> --


--

Cayugabirds-L List Info:
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm

ARCHIVES:
1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html
2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds
3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html

Please submit your observations to eBird:
http://ebird.org/content/ebird/

--

Re: [cayugabirds-l] weekend birds, hunting pressure

[bob mcguire]

Another though: how about petitioning the DEC to delay the start of the late 
waterfowl season at the south end of Cayuga lake until after January 1st? Why 
should the needs (?) of 15-20 hunters take precedence over a 100-year tradition 
& data collection (the Ithaca CXBC)?

Bob McGuire
On Dec 29, 2013, at 5:07 PM, Kenneth V. Rosenberg wrote:

> I birded at East Shore Park on Saturday mid-day, and at Stewart Park this 
> morning -- I must say that I have never seen so much hunting pressure at the 
> south end of the lake. I want to say clearly that I am not against legal duck 
> hunting in well managed areas (and I buy a Migratory Bird Stamp to support 
> wetland conservation), but what is going on this year does not seem to be 
> sustainable or an appropriate use of such a large public space. Boats with 
> hunters and decoys were anchored right under the trees at the Swan Pen at 
> Stewart Park, at the tip of the red lighthouse jetty, at the wooden buoy 
> marker, on the beach at Hogs Hole, and along East Shore -- yesterday there 
> was an additional boat cruising the center of the lake to chase duck flocks. 
> Needless to say there was not a single spot for ducks to rest safely anywhere 
> in the southern quarter-mile or so of Cayuga Lake (and probably north past 
> Myer's Point as well), and any flock that circled around over the south end 
> of the lake (no matter how high) was shot at. I don't know if DEC would 
> consider that proper management of this important waterfowl wintering area. 
> This seemed pretty different from the past few years when a few hunters kept 
> the duck flocks moving around but there was plenty of place for them to rest 
> -- notably along the Stewart Park shoreline, which was not available today.
> 
> This activity will undoubtedly affect the numbers of waterfowl on this year's 
> Christmas Bird Count on Wednesday (wasn't much to count today). If this trend 
> continues in future years, I strongly recommend that the Cayuga Bird Club 
> move its count to the days prior to the late hunting season  -- this slight 
> straying from "tradition" will probably yield more accurate numbers of local 
> waterfowl populations.
> 
> In spite of the hunting, I did manage to see a few distant LONG-TAILED DUCKS 
> and a single WHITE-WINGED SCOTER far to the north of East Shore Park, and a 
> flock of 12 RUDDY DUCKS, along with HORNED and PIED-BIILED GREBES, COMMON 
> LOON, and 3 DOUBLE-CRESTED CORMORANTS -- all decent CBC birds if they can 
> hang in there. There were also TUNDRA SWANS around this morning -- 2 on the 
> ice at Stewart Park east end when I arrived, and a flock of 40-50 in the 
> center of the lake way out. Later in the morning, as I was scouting around 
> the Farmers Market and Community Gardens, several small flocks of swans 
> passed over Ithaca heading south.
> 
> Yesterday, at Taughannock Falls State Park, there were 2 (MYRTLE) 
> YELLOW-RUMPED WARBLERS with chickadees at the lakeshore near the south end of 
> the park. 
> 
> Let's hope some birds survive the next deep freeze,
> 
> KEN
> 
> 
> Ken Rosenberg
> Conservation Science Program
> Cornell Lab of Ornithology
> 607-254-2412
> 607-342-4594 (cell)
> k...@cornell.edu
> 
> --
> Cayugabirds-L List Info:
> Welcome and Basics
> Rules and Information
> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
> Archives:
> The Mail Archive
> Surfbirds
> BirdingOnThe.Net
> Please submit your observations to eBird!
> --


--

Cayugabirds-L List Info:
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm

ARCHIVES:
1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html
2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds
3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html

Please submit your observations to eBird:
http://ebird.org/content/ebird/

--

Re: [cayugabirds-l] weekend birds, hunting pressure

[Lee Ann van Leer]

It sounds like not everyone is following hunting regulations. 

If anyone is curious about waterfowl hunting seasons, regulations, bag limits, 
etc see the link. 

Prohibited:  "driving, rallying or chasing birds with any motorized conveyance 
or any sailboat to put them in the range of hunters."
http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/wildlife_pdf/wfregsguide13.pdf

I have had similar thoughts about the various issues of doing a bird count 
during duck hunting season. Perhaps I will wear blaze orange when counting on 
the lake shore. 

Good luck to all bird counters. 



> On Dec 29, 2013, at 5:07 PM, "Kenneth V. Rosenberg"  wrote:
> 
> "...yesterday there was an additional boat cruising the center of the lake to 
> chase duck flocks"

--

Cayugabirds-L List Info:
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm

ARCHIVES:
1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html
2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds
3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html

Please submit your observations to eBird:
http://ebird.org/content/ebird/

--

[cayugabirds-l] weekend birds, hunting pressure

[Kenneth V. Rosenberg]

I birded at East Shore Park on Saturday mid-day, and at Stewart Park this 
morning -- I must say that I have never seen so much hunting pressure at the 
south end of the lake. I want to say clearly that I am not against legal duck 
hunting in well managed areas (and I buy a Migratory Bird Stamp to support 
wetland conservation), but what is going on this year does not seem to be 
sustainable or an appropriate use of such a large public space. Boats with 
hunters and decoys were anchored right under the trees at the Swan Pen at 
Stewart Park, at the tip of the red lighthouse jetty, at the wooden buoy 
marker, on the beach at Hogs Hole, and along East Shore -- yesterday there was 
an additional boat cruising the center of the lake to chase duck flocks. 
Needless to say there was not a single spot for ducks to rest safely anywhere 
in the southern quarter-mile or so of Cayuga Lake (and probably north past 
Myer's Point as well), and any flock that circled around over the south end of 
the lake (no matter how high) was shot at. I don't know if DEC would consider 
that proper management of this important waterfowl wintering area. This seemed 
pretty different from the past few years when a few hunters kept the duck 
flocks moving around but there was plenty of place for them to rest -- notably 
along the Stewart Park shoreline, which was not available today.

This activity will undoubtedly affect the numbers of waterfowl on this year's 
Christmas Bird Count on Wednesday (wasn't much to count today). If this trend 
continues in future years, I strongly recommend that the Cayuga Bird Club move 
its count to the days prior to the late hunting season  -- this slight straying 
from "tradition" will probably yield more accurate numbers of local waterfowl 
populations.

In spite of the hunting, I did manage to see a few distant LONG-TAILED DUCKS 
and a single WHITE-WINGED SCOTER far to the north of East Shore Park, and a 
flock of 12 RUDDY DUCKS, along with HORNED and PIED-BIILED GREBES, COMMON LOON, 
and 3 DOUBLE-CRESTED CORMORANTS -- all decent CBC birds if they can hang in 
there. There were also TUNDRA SWANS around this morning -- 2 on the ice at 
Stewart Park east end when I arrived, and a flock of 40-50 in the center of the 
lake way out. Later in the morning, as I was scouting around the Farmers Market 
and Community Gardens, several small flocks of swans passed over Ithaca heading 
south.

Yesterday, at Taughannock Falls State Park, there were 2 (MYRTLE) YELLOW-RUMPED 
WARBLERS with chickadees at the lakeshore near the south end of the park.

Let's hope some birds survive the next deep freeze,

KEN


Ken Rosenberg
Conservation Science Program
Cornell Lab of Ornithology
607-254-2412
607-342-4594 (cell)
k...@cornell.edu


--

Cayugabirds-L List Info:
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm

ARCHIVES:
1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html
2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds
3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html

Please submit your observations to eBird:
http://ebird.org/content/ebird/

--