RE: [cayugabirds-l] Birders Hunters on Cayuga Lake
Hi all, First of all, after reading John's post, when I suggested that CBC should do something about hunting was not to stop hunting, but to designate some locations on the lake to be free from being hunting locations, so both birders and birds can enjoy some peace. Why is it wrong if birders feel that they love to have some locations free of hunters and hunting? Don't we think we also have same right as hunters who think they would love to hunt in all areas? So come to a compromise! So what is wrong in making some good locations on Cayuga Lake bird and birder friendly? Hunters can share some locations with us for our pleasure! I think number of birders and hunters around Cayuga lake must be very similar if not higher for birders. I think sport hunting is the one which bothers me, if you are hunting for food then it is ok with me, but just for the pleasure of killing something that definitely annoys me. If you are thinking of sports of hunting flying objects, have some artificial targets or may be try some falling leaves or some other similar targets. Sorry for bursting out like this, instead of working on the proposal! Meena From: bounce-72561577-3493...@list.cornell.edu [mailto:bounce-72561577-3493...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Nari Mistry Sent: Monday, January 07, 2013 10:53 AM To: CAYUGABIRDS-L Subject: [cayugabirds-l] Birders Hunters on Cayuga Lake I strongly endorse the wise comments of Jody Enck Ken Rosenberg asking for restraint in advocating for a ban on duck hunting on Cayuga Lake. Birders tend to believe that we are a huge beneficial community that can do no wrong. The reality is that the world looks at us with benign amusement. To set ourselves up as our viewpoint is best for everyone is a mistake. I am just as concerned about gunshots and disturbance of wildlife and humans, but I don't think we can justify a ban. While bird conservation arguments may be useful, it does not appear to me that waterfowl conservation is threatened by hunting on Cayuga Lake, as Ken has pointed out. So the argument becomes just my preference against others'. Pushing for a ban on duck-hunting on the lake can easily be regarded by hunters as the first step in trying to ban hunting in the fields and woods, leading to acrimonious name-calling and the end of any good relationship between birders and land-owners, hunters and real people. A much better course of action would be to have a dialog with duck-hunters clubs and to explain the beneficial need for hunting away from shore and avoiding deliberate disturbance and flushing of birds to gain an advantage. I hope a reasonable course of action is chosen. Nari Mistry -- Nari B. Mistry, Ithaca, NY To see my paintings, visit http://www.ArtbyNari.com -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: Welcome and Basicshttp://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME Rules and Informationhttp://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES Subscribe, Configuration and Leavehttp://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm Archives: The Mail Archivehttp://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html Surfbirdshttp://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds BirdingOnThe.Nethttp://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBirdhttp://ebird.org/content/ebird/! -- -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
Re: [cayugabirds-l] Birders Hunters on Cayuga Lake
Hey All, I would just like to reiterate that I think this subject is very worthy of further discussion with knowledgeable people engaged in the pros and cons of establishing some gun free zones around the lake shore. I do not consider myself to be that knowledgeable person but I see from what has already been offered here that there are many of you out there. The listserv will probably not be the best arena for this, as is already apparent. Passions can run high on a subject like this. As passions can escalate quickly on almost any conservation issue, land use issue, pet freedom issue etc. Can some of us take steps to begin a face to face conversation and see where this might take us? I am not sure if the Conservation Action Committee of the Cayuga Bird Club would be a willing facilitator but I think that might offer at least a venue. Perhaps interested people can communicate privately about next steps? Thanks. Linda Orkin Cayuga Bird Club On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 11:15 AM, Meena Haribal m...@cornell.edu wrote: Hi all, ** ** First of all, after reading John’s post, when I suggested that CBC should do something about hunting was not to stop hunting, but to designate some locations on the lake to be free from being hunting locations, so both birders and birds can enjoy some peace. ** ** Why is it wrong if birders feel that they love to have some locations free of hunters and hunting? Don’t we think we also have same right as hunters who think they would love to hunt in all areas? So come to a compromise!** ** ** ** So what is wrong in making some good locations on Cayuga Lake bird and birder friendly? ** ** Hunters can share some locations with us for our pleasure! I think number of birders and hunters around Cayuga lake must be very similar if not higher for birders. ** ** I think sport hunting is the one which bothers me, if you are hunting for food then it is ok with me, but just for the pleasure of killing something that definitely annoys me. If you are thinking of sports of hunting flying objects, have some artificial targets or may be try some falling leaves or some other similar targets. ** ** Sorry for bursting out like this, instead of working on the proposal! ** ** Meena ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** *From:* bounce-72561577-3493...@list.cornell.edu [mailto: bounce-72561577-3493...@list.cornell.edu] *On Behalf Of *Nari Mistry *Sent:* Monday, January 07, 2013 10:53 AM *To:* CAYUGABIRDS-L *Subject:* [cayugabirds-l] Birders Hunters on Cayuga Lake ** ** I strongly endorse the wise comments of Jody Enck Ken Rosenberg asking for restraint in advocating for a ban on duck hunting on Cayuga Lake. Birders tend to believe that we are a huge beneficial community that can do no wrong. The reality is that the world looks at us with benign amusement. To set ourselves up as our viewpoint is best for everyone is a mistake. I am just as concerned about gunshots and disturbance of wildlife and humans, but I don't think we can justify a ban. While bird conservation arguments may be useful, it does not appear to me that waterfowl conservation is threatened by hunting on Cayuga Lake, as Ken has pointed out. So the argument becomes just my preference against others'. Pushing for a ban on duck-hunting on the lake can easily be regarded by hunters as the first step in trying to ban hunting in the fields and woods, leading to acrimonious name-calling and the end of any good relationship between birders and land-owners, hunters and real people. A much better course of action would be to have a dialog with duck-hunters clubs and to explain the beneficial need for hunting away from shore and avoiding deliberate disturbance and flushing of birds to gain an advantage. I hope a reasonable course of action is chosen. Nari Mistry -- Nari B. Mistry, Ithaca, NY To see my paintings, visit http://www.ArtbyNari.com -- *Cayugabirds-L List Info:* Welcome and Basics http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME*** * Rules and Information http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES** ** Subscribe, Configuration and Leavehttp://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm *Archives:* The Mail Archivehttp://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html Surfbirds http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds BirdingOnThe.Net http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html *Please submit your observations to eBirdhttp://ebird.org/content/ebird/ !* -- -- *Cayugabirds-L List Info:* Welcome and Basics http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME Rules and Information http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES Subscribe, Configuration and Leavehttp://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm *Archives:* The Mail
Re: [cayugabirds-l] Birders Hunters on Cayuga Lake
This is a perfect way to proceed with this, I believe, and I look forward to having all who are interested contact Candace to discuss their interest and willingness in participating. I think the listserv serves a valuable role in starting these types of debates and discussions, but once a couple of points of view have been expressed, it seems to me it is time to transition to off list action bolstered by information, facts and yes, emotion. Thanks much. Linda Orkin On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Candace Cornell cec...@gmail.com wrote: I'll put this topic on our agenda for our next CAC meeting, tentatively set for Thursday, January 24 at 7 pm. Candace On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 10:52 AM, Nari Mistry n...@cornell.edu wrote: ** I strongly endorse the wise comments of Jody Enck Ken Rosenberg asking for restraint in advocating for a ban on duck hunting on Cayuga Lake. Birders tend to believe that we are a huge beneficial community that can do no wrong. The reality is that the world looks at us with benign amusement. To set ourselves up as our viewpoint is best for everyone is a mistake. I am just as concerned about gunshots and disturbance of wildlife and humans, but I don't think we can justify a ban. While bird conservation arguments may be useful, it does not appear to me that waterfowl conservation is threatened by hunting on Cayuga Lake, as Ken has pointed out. So the argument becomes just my preference against others'. Pushing for a ban on duck-hunting on the lake can easily be regarded by hunters as the first step in trying to ban hunting in the fields and woods, leading to acrimonious name-calling and the end of any good relationship between birders and land-owners, hunters and real people. A much better course of action would be to have a dialog with duck-hunters clubs and to explain the beneficial need for hunting away from shore and avoiding deliberate disturbance and flushing of birds to gain an advantage. I hope a reasonable course of action is chosen. Nari Mistry -- Nari B. Mistry, Ithaca, NY To see my paintings, visit http://www.ArtbyNari.com -- *Cayugabirds-L List Info:* Welcome and Basics http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME Rules and Information http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES Subscribe, Configuration and Leavehttp://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm *Archives:* The Mail Archivehttp://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html Surfbirds http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds BirdingOnThe.Net http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html *Please submit your observations to eBirdhttp://ebird.org/content/ebird/ !* -- -- *Cayugabirds-L List Info:* Welcome and Basics http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME Rules and Information http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES Subscribe, Configuration and Leavehttp://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm *Archives:* The Mail Archivehttp://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html Surfbirds http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds BirdingOnThe.Net http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html *Please submit your observations to eBirdhttp://ebird.org/content/ebird/ !* -- -- Don't ask what your bird club can do for you, ask what you can do for your bird club!! ')_,/ -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
[PMX:#] Re: [cayugabirds-l] Birders Hunters on Cayuga Lake
I haven't read all of the posts on this issue, and perhaps what I am about to say has already been said, but here goes. Hunters and especially those who hunt waterfowl contribute a tremendous amount of their own money and time to the preservation of waterfowl, habitat and wildlife in general. Can we as birders say the same. Sure some of us put in some of our time, but how many do or are willing to spend a lot of our own money towards that end. I am not talking about a few bucks here and there. In new York State alone over 1.5 million hunters who regularly contribute over $745.2 million dollars a year on licenses and stamps. If you add up all of the funds involved with hunting, fishing and trapping, the total sports contribution is well over $3.7 billion dollars. Ask your self, have we even come close to that both in terms of numbers of participants, let alone that much money? If I were a hunter, I'm not, but if I were I would ask you to put your money where your mouth is. It's a nice sentiment we seem to have, but how much do we really contribute? Shire we count birds every year, and this is good for knowing how our habitat is going, but again how much do we really contribute. I know I don't contribute very much either scientifically or monetarily. So given where the money for conservation comes from do we really have the right to criticize or ban others from what they are contributing a whole lot more than we are? Plus we actually benefit from what they do. Do you really think we would even have so much to watch if not for those we would oppose? Now getting off my soapbox. Carl Steckler For those who fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know Unknown Marine Khe Sahn, Vietnam -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
