Re: [ccp4bb] Far to good r-factors

2010-06-01 Thread Dale Tronrud
This would be a possible explanation, and certainly is a problem with low resolution refinements, but the free R indicates that overfitting is not the problem here. (I'm assuming that the proper choice of test set has been made in this case.) In my experience, for very isomorphous pairs of str

Re: [ccp4bb] Far to good r-factors

2010-06-01 Thread Ian Tickle
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 9:15 PM, Dale Tronrud wrote: >   One of the great mysteries of refinement is that a model created using > high resolution data will fit a low resolution data set much better than > a model created only using the low resolution data.  It appears that there > are many types o

Re: [ccp4bb] Far to good r-factors

2010-05-31 Thread Dale Tronrud
One of the great mysteries of refinement is that a model created using high resolution data will fit a low resolution data set much better than a model created only using the low resolution data. It appears that there are many types of errors that degrade the fit to low resolution data that ca

Re: [ccp4bb] Far to good r-factors

2010-05-31 Thread Pavel Afonine
This reminded me another thing... Did you create the free-R flags considering twinning? This is very important. Pavel. On 5/31/10 12:43 PM, Gregory Bowman wrote: Paul, Does your lower resolution structure have the same unit cell as the model used for MR? If your two crystals are the same ex

Re: [ccp4bb] Far to good r-factors

2010-05-31 Thread Gregory Bowman
Paul, Does your lower resolution structure have the same unit cell as the model used for MR? If your two crystals are the same except for the presence of the ligand, then you need to make sure to keep the same Rfree set for both. Otherwise, some reflections that were previous in the Rwork

Re: [ccp4bb] Far to good r-factors

2010-05-30 Thread Pavel Afonine
Hi Paul, another hypothesis... If you take an ultra-high resolution structure from PDB (resolution higher than 1.0A), then cut the data at 3A and do some refinement, you will get unusually low R-factors. This may suggest that your crystal can diffract to higher resolution and 3A is not the

Re: [ccp4bb] Far to good r-factors

2010-05-30 Thread Vellieux Frederic
Hi Paul, I've seen that type of behaviour before for low resolution structures. On such structures, either I have a very hard time getting at the same time a good geometry, "good" R-factors and satisfactory electron density, or things go very smoothly and all the statistics (model geometry,

[ccp4bb] Far to good r-factors

2010-05-30 Thread Paul Lindblom
Hi everybody, once more I need your help. I solved the structure of an enzyme at resolution of 1.9 A. Now I was trying to get a complex and soaked some ligand to my crystals. I could solve the structure (and see poor density for my ligand or something else) at 3.0 A by molecular replacement using