Re: [ccp4bb] Twinning, Wilson scaling and B factor

2011-05-21 Thread fulvio.saccoc...@uniroma1.it
Thanks Ian, I understood now. Great lesson for me. Best regards Fulvio Saccoccia Il giorno ven, 20/05/2011 alle 18.14 +0100, Ian Tickle ha scritto: The true values of the components of the twin can't in general be equal since they come from _different_ reflections that are unrelated by

Re: [ccp4bb] Twinning, Wilson scaling and B factor

2011-05-20 Thread fulvio saccoccia
Thanks Ian, I tried to do this: I took the file containing hkl I and sigI and generated a new file containing hkl I/2 and sigI because I know, from the refined structure that the twin fraction is nearly 0.5. Now, using this new file the wilson plot give me a more reliable estimated B

Re: [ccp4bb] Twinning, Wilson scaling and B factor

2011-05-20 Thread Ian Tickle
No, simply applying a single overall scale factor to the intensities can't possibly make any difference to the Wilson B since the fall-off with resolution will remain unchanged. The Wilson plot is a plot of ln(mean(I')/S) in shells of constant d* vs d*^2, where I' is I corrected for symmetry and

Re: [ccp4bb] Twinning, Wilson scaling and B factor

2011-05-20 Thread fulvio.saccoc...@uniroma1.it
Thanks Ian, but your reply confused me a little. I hope you can explain me where I was wrong. I know that I(twin)=tf*I(h1)+(1-tf)*I(h2) I supposed that having tf=0.5 I could take the I(twin), dividing by 2 I will get both I(h1) and I(h2), that are the two component (that are equal in

Re: [ccp4bb] Twinning, Wilson scaling and B factor

2011-05-20 Thread Ian Tickle
The true values of the components of the twin can't in general be equal since they come from _different_ reflections that are unrelated by the true crystal symmetry (they are only related by the pseudo-symmetry of the twin). Let's say: Itwin(h1)=tf*I(h1)+(1-tf)*I(h2) where I(h1) and I(h2) are

Re: [ccp4bb] Twinning, Wilson scaling and B factor

2011-05-19 Thread Ian Tickle
Hi Fulvio There are 2 different issues here: the Wilson plot scale B factor on the one hand and Wilson statistics on the other. The first are not affected by twinning since they depend only on the intensity averages in shells. The second refers to the distribution of intensities (i.e. the

Re: [ccp4bb] Twinning, Wilson scaling and B factor

2011-05-19 Thread fulvio saccoccia
Ok, so another question in my mind: the data come from a collection interrupted after the first 200 frames and restarted after 1 hour to recover the missed 160 frames. The first and second group of frames, if separately indexed, give cell parameter values that differ of about 1A for axes and 1

Re: [ccp4bb] Twinning, Wilson scaling and B factor

2011-05-19 Thread Tim Gruene
Hi Fulvio, Yes, it can. An increase in cell parameters can indicate a failure of the cooling system or (more likely) radiation damage of the crystal. For refinement you probably do not need all those 360 frames, unless you collected thin frames and your space group is P1 I suggest you integrate