Re: [ccp4bb] What is an aceptable spread in ADP values?

2010-02-04 Thread Kevin Cowtan
Pavel Afonine wrote: Dear Ed, Tightly restrained refinement will be equivalent to torsion angle parametrization, since bonds and angles are essentially fixed (but dihedrals are not). Simply not true. Think why -:) Hint: in restrained refinement the weight applies to all terms - bonds,

Re: [ccp4bb] What is an aceptable spread in ADP values?

2010-02-04 Thread Ed Pozharski
Pavel, Simply not true. Think why -:) Hint: in restrained refinement the weight applies to all terms - bonds, angles, torsions, etc... So if you choose tight weight in such refinement the torsions will be restrained as tightly as other terms (at least as it would be in CNS or phenix.refine).

Re: [ccp4bb] What is an aceptable spread in ADP values?

2010-02-03 Thread Ed Pozharski
Pavel, - In general you are free to decide what you name a domain: it can be a residue, its part or the whole structure. - What would be main and side for non-amino acid molecule, like a whatever ligand? I don't see how my freedom to explicitly define the terms I use in a post is relevant.

Re: [ccp4bb] What is an aceptable spread in ADP values?

2010-02-03 Thread Pavel Afonine
Dear Ed, Tightly restrained refinement will be equivalent to torsion angle parametrization, since bonds and angles are essentially fixed (but dihedrals are not). Simply not true. Think why -:) Hint: in restrained refinement the weight applies to all terms - bonds, angles, torsions, etc...

Re: [ccp4bb] What is an aceptable spread in ADP values?

2010-02-03 Thread Ethan Merritt
On Wednesday 03 February 2010 10:04:36 Pavel Afonine wrote: I always suggest to run these refinement jobs and see which one gives the best result: 1) TLS + individual isotropic ADP refinement (tls+individual_adp); 2) TLS + group individual ADP refinement (tls+group_adp); I do not think

Re: [ccp4bb] What is an aceptable spread in ADP values?

2010-01-29 Thread Ed Pozharski
DISCLAIMER: When I say grouped B-factor refinement I mean CNS-style, Bmain/Bside refinement. Not to be confused with more general domain B-factor refinement where single B-factor is assigned to some part of the structure. Apart from improving data-to-parameters ratio, another argument for

Re: [ccp4bb] What is an aceptable spread in ADP values?

2010-01-29 Thread Pavel Afonine
Hi Ed, DISCLAIMER: When I say grouped B-factor refinement I mean CNS-style, Bmain/Bside refinement. Not to be confused with more general domain B-factor refinement where single B-factor is assigned to some part of the structure. - In general you are free to decide what you name a domain:

[ccp4bb] What is an aceptable spread in ADP values?

2010-01-28 Thread Jose Antonio Cuesta Seijo
Dear all, I am refining a 3.1Å structure with Phenix.refine, using two ADP groups per residue. When doing refinement in Refmac, the way to go would be to tighten the weights quite a bit to make up for the low resolution, resulting in small deviations in bond lenghts and angles from the ideal

Re: [ccp4bb] What is an aceptable spread in ADP values?

2010-01-28 Thread Ed Pozharski
Jose Antonio, I've seen similar behavior few years ago with grouped B-factor refinement in CNS. The argument for the grouped refinement is as follows: This is better than individual B-factor refinement at low resolution because you significantly reduce the number of parameters. There are two

Re: [ccp4bb] What is an aceptable spread in ADP values?

2010-01-28 Thread Pavel Afonine
Hello, 1. The reduction in number of parameters is not that significant. On average, you have some 8 atoms per residue, and thus 32 parameters with individual B-factors (4 per atom). With grouped B-factors you have 26, about 20% difference. While it sounds like a lot (hey, I just removed

Re: [ccp4bb] What is an aceptable spread in ADP values?

2010-01-28 Thread Pavel Afonine
Hi Jose Antonio Cuesta Seijo, - at 3.1A I would try 1) refining individual isotropic ADPs, 2) combined strategy of refining TLS+individual isotropic ADPs, 3) combined strategy of refining TLS+group isotropic ADPs with one or two definable isotropic B-factor per residue. Look at Rfree and