Re: [ccp4bb] alternating strong/weak intensities in reciprocal planes - P622

2007-08-27 Thread Rizkallah, PJ (Pierre)
Hi Jorge, I imagine your 222 tetramer makes a sort of 'pancake' which fits into a cell of 229x229x36 when you apply the 6-fold symmetry. If that was the case in the crystal, then these would be the cell dimensions that you would get. But I suspect you have a situation where the cell repeat has a

Re: [ccp4bb] alternating strong/weak intensities in reciprocal planes - P622

2007-08-27 Thread Bart Hazes
Hi Jorge, The strong h, k, l=2n and weak h, k, l=2n+1 pattern suggest pseudo body centering. Does the off-origin Patterson peak lie at/near 0.5 0.5 0.5? You could get pseudo body centering if an NCS 2-fold lies parallel to a crystallographic 2(1) or 6(3) screw axis, with the NCS 2-fold a quar

Re: [ccp4bb] Strange diffraction images

2007-08-27 Thread Jacob Keller
I think if there had been a case of a protein quasicrystal, it would have made the cover of Nature Here are some papers about quasicrystals: 1: Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 1996 Dec 10;93(25):14267-70. New perspectives on forbidden symmetries, quasicrystals, and Penrose tilings. Stein

Re: [ccp4bb] Strange diffraction images

2007-08-27 Thread Bart Hazes
I believe Wayne Hendrickson's lab has had such a case with a 10-fold symmetric mollusc hemocyanin crystal. This must have been in the early 90's and to my knowlwedge they were never able to solve the structure even though it diffracted beyond 2 Anstrom. I'm not sure if this work has been publi

Re: [ccp4bb] alternating strong/weak intensities in reciprocal planes - P622

2007-08-27 Thread Dale Tronrud
On possibility for #5, the B factors all dropping to the lower limit during refinement. If you are including all of your low resolution data (which you should) but have not used a model for the bulk solvent scattering of X-rays (which would be bad) then you will observe this result. The refin

Re: [ccp4bb] Strange diffraction images

2007-08-27 Thread Peter Zwart
> As a side note, Xtriage > doesn't think things are twinned as was suggested for one some of the other > diffraction patterns discussed earlier today. Hi Todd, Detection of twinning in the presence of pseudo translations / and or NCS parallel to the twin law is difficult and using model based te

[ccp4bb] Applying NCS Edits in Coot

2007-08-27 Thread xmjose
Dear all, I am trying to use the "NCS Edits" in Coot to be able to move a range of residues from a molecule to the NCS related ones and the command "(copy-residue-range-from-ncs-master-to others ) is not working. The fragment that I want to add to the NCS related molecules is at the N-terminus.

Re: [ccp4bb] Strange diffraction images

2007-08-27 Thread Jacob Keller
The left-out spots would be the diffuse spots, which I assume were not indexed/integrated. The sharp spots were presumably used to solve the structure. JPK ==Original message text=== On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 11:36:08 am CDT Raji Edayathumangalam wrote: Very dumb question per

Re: [ccp4bb] Strange diffraction images

2007-08-27 Thread Raji Edayathumangalam
Very dumb question perhaps: If there were two interpenetrating lattices of slightly different cell dimensions, would we not expect that the indexing program would leave out a lot of the spots as "unpredicted" or "uncovered"? Could someone clarify with respect to the diffraction pattern that has

Re: [ccp4bb] Strange diffraction images - PS

2007-08-27 Thread George M. Sheldrick
Apologies, part of my previous message was missing and part appeared twice. Here is another try: Jacob, Some small molecule crystallographers have specialized in solving and refining structures that, exactly as you describe it, consist of two interpenetrating, non-commensurate lattices. The usua

Re: [ccp4bb] Strange diffraction images

2007-08-27 Thread Jacob Keller
I am still eagerly awaiting a biomacromolecular quasicrystal with a five-fold symmetric diffraction pattern. It seems that this is entirely possible, if one gets roughly Penrose-tile shaped oligomers somehow. But wow, how would you solve that thing? I guess one would have to modify software fr

Re: [ccp4bb] Strange diffraction images

2007-08-27 Thread George M. Sheldrick
Some small molecule crystallographers have specialized in solving and refining structures that, exactly as you describe it, consist of two (or more) interpenetrating, non-commensurable lattices. The usual approach is to decribe the crystal in up to six dimensional space. The programs SAINT and

[ccp4bb] Strange diffraction images

2007-08-27 Thread Jacob Keller
What a beautiful and interesting diffraction pattern! To me, it seems that there is a blurred set of spots with different cell dimensions, although nearly the same, underlying the ordered diffraction pattern. A possible interpretation occurred to me, that the ordered part of the crystal is suppo

Re: [ccp4bb] alternating strong/weak intensities in reciprocal planes - P622

2007-08-27 Thread jjwarren
You said: > 8) Processed in P6, P312 and P321, all of course suggest twinning. These will all suggest partial twinning, but not necessarily perfect twinning. I would start to consider twinning a possibility if the statistics for these lower symmetry space groups suggest a partial twin fraction of

[ccp4bb] alternating strong/weak intensities in reciprocal planes - P622

2007-08-27 Thread Jorge Iulek
Dear all, Please, maybe you could give some suggestions to the problem below. 1) Images show smeared spots, but xds did a good job integrating them. The cell is 229, 229, 72, trigonal, and we see alternating strong and weak rows of spots in the images (spots near each other, but rows more sepa

Re: [ccp4bb] The importance of USING our validation tools

2007-08-27 Thread Mark J. van Raaij
In general, I think we should be careful about too strong statements, while in general structures with high solvent diffract to low-res, there are a few examples where they diffract to high res. Obviously, high solvent content means fewer crystal contacts, but if these few are very stable?