Re: [ccp4bb] How to make covalent bond between sugar monomers?

2014-09-05 Thread Bärbel Blaum

Hi Leo,

you should not need an additional cif file for coot but you might need  
to generate one for reciprocal space refinement. If you use REFMAC it  
might 'fail' in the first attempt with the message 'new ligand  
encountered' or something similar. It will, however, generate a single  
cif file for the sugar if it recognizes the monosaccharides and the  
glycosidic linkage you have created in coot, using the descriptions  
from the REFMAC library. You can then look at this cif file and  
provide it for future refinement runs in REFMAC. It is a good idea to  
keep checking if the glycosidic bond is identified correctly and  
restrained accordingly in every REFMAC run after you introduced the  
ligand/glycosylation.


I find it a lot harder to achieve correct sugar refinement with  
phenix, although elbow should techically be able to create a cif file  
for sugars just like REFMAC. The prodrug server is a bad idea, as  
pointed out, because the library restraints for sugars are not used if  
the sugar rings are not identified with the correct three letter  
abbrevations in your pdb file.


If you have a larger oligosaccharide and good density it might be  
easiest to start by getting a similar sugar model from a deposited pdb  
file. Place this molecule in your sugar density using rigid body  
refinement, then start to manipulate single rings from the template so  
that they fit your density best. Often this is a matter of rotating  
the individual rings around their glycosidic bonds. When you try this  
procedure be aware that there are lots of distorted sugar rings in the  
pdb, so make sure you start from a good template.


Good luck,

Baerbel



Zitat von Lie Ma leoma5...@gmail.com:


Thank you, Paul.

And do I need to provide additional cif file which describe the bond?

Leo

On Sep 4, 2014, at 2:23 PM, Paul Emsley pems...@mrc-lmb.cam.ac.uk wrote:


On 04/09/14 19:06, Lie Ma wrote:

Hello all,

I am trying to make a model of an oligosaccharide which contains  
several sugar monomers. I obtained the monomers from coot library  
and put them into the electron density. But I don't know how to  
make covalent bond between these monomers.


If you are using Coot, you can use Extensions - Modelling - Make Link.

If you sugar monomers are reasonably placed Coot's Sphere Refine  
will determine the correct link types on the fly (it doesn't  
believe what's in the PDB file).




I tried to use PRODRG to generate a model and it gave me one big  
ligand consisting of several monomers.


Yes, that's not the way to do it...

 However, what I want is to have a chain contains several  
monomers, and each monomers acts like a residue.


Indeed.


Paul.







--
Bärbel Blaum, Ph.D.
Interfakultäres Institut für Biochemie (IFIB)
Hoppe-Seyler-Strasse 4
D-72076 Tübingen
Germany
+49 70 71 29 73 375


[ccp4bb] AW: [ccp4bb] How to make covalent bond between sugar monomers?

2014-09-05 Thread Herman . Schreuder
Dear Leo,

Just in case, you have to delete the oxygen from the carbon making the covalent 
link in the sugar you are adding to the chain (in the direction starting from 
the Asn or Ser). This is usually the O1. Then you make a link between this 
carbon and the connecting O or N atom. I usually do a real space refinement of 
the single sugar unit and I continue rebuilding until the atoms to be connected 
are within reasonable distance to make the link after this real space 
refinement. You may have to rebuild the Asn or Ser as well. In my experience, 
if the link is correctly specified and the sugar is correctly modeled, it will 
refine correctly without having to add or generate an additional cif file.

Good luck,
Herman

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: CCP4 bulletin board [mailto:CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK] Im Auftrag von Bärbel 
Blaum
Gesendet: Freitag, 5. September 2014 08:49
An: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Betreff: Re: [ccp4bb] How to make covalent bond between sugar monomers?

Hi Leo,

you should not need an additional cif file for coot but you might need to 
generate one for reciprocal space refinement. If you use REFMAC it might 'fail' 
in the first attempt with the message 'new ligand encountered' or something 
similar. It will, however, generate a single cif file for the sugar if it 
recognizes the monosaccharides and the glycosidic linkage you have created in 
coot, using the descriptions from the REFMAC library. You can then look at this 
cif file and provide it for future refinement runs in REFMAC. It is a good idea 
to keep checking if the glycosidic bond is identified correctly and restrained 
accordingly in every REFMAC run after you introduced the ligand/glycosylation.

I find it a lot harder to achieve correct sugar refinement with phenix, 
although elbow should techically be able to create a cif file for sugars just 
like REFMAC. The prodrug server is a bad idea, as pointed out, because the 
library restraints for sugars are not used if the sugar rings are not 
identified with the correct three letter abbrevations in your pdb file.

If you have a larger oligosaccharide and good density it might be easiest to 
start by getting a similar sugar model from a deposited pdb file. Place this 
molecule in your sugar density using rigid body refinement, then start to 
manipulate single rings from the template so that they fit your density best. 
Often this is a matter of rotating the individual rings around their glycosidic 
bonds. When you try this procedure be aware that there are lots of distorted 
sugar rings in the pdb, so make sure you start from a good template.

Good luck,

Baerbel



Zitat von Lie Ma leoma5...@gmail.com:

 Thank you, Paul.

 And do I need to provide additional cif file which describe the bond?

 Leo

 On Sep 4, 2014, at 2:23 PM, Paul Emsley pems...@mrc-lmb.cam.ac.uk wrote:

 On 04/09/14 19:06, Lie Ma wrote:
 Hello all,

 I am trying to make a model of an oligosaccharide which contains 
 several sugar monomers. I obtained the monomers from coot library 
 and put them into the electron density. But I don't know how to make 
 covalent bond between these monomers.

 If you are using Coot, you can use Extensions - Modelling - Make Link.

 If you sugar monomers are reasonably placed Coot's Sphere Refine will 
 determine the correct link types on the fly (it doesn't believe 
 what's in the PDB file).


 I tried to use PRODRG to generate a model and it gave me one big 
 ligand consisting of several monomers.

 Yes, that's not the way to do it...

  However, what I want is to have a chain contains several monomers, 
 and each monomers acts like a residue.

 Indeed.


 Paul.





--
Bärbel Blaum, Ph.D.
Interfakultäres Institut für Biochemie (IFIB) Hoppe-Seyler-Strasse 4
D-72076 Tübingen
Germany
+49 70 71 29 73 375


Re: [ccp4bb] Extract Euler angles from fractional coordinate matrix

2014-09-05 Thread Eleanor Dodson
Rotation matrices are rarely specified in a fractional coordinate system?
The criteria for checking such a matrix is Is the determinant 1? and this
only holds for orthogonal matrices.



I guess the way I would do this though.

You presumably have two sets of fractional coordinates, before and after
rotation?

There is a ccp4 program - coordconv which will read the fractional
coordinates and generate pdb format with the convention ncode = 1 (You may
need to fudge the fractional format I suppose..)

You can then use superpose to match the two sets of coordinates and the
output will tell you the Eulerian angles used for the rotation!

Lots of ways to kill cats!
  Eleanor





On 4 September 2014 21:21, Phil Jeffrey pjeff...@princeton.edu wrote:

 The orthogonal/fractional matrix is outlined here:
 http://www.iucr.org/__data/assets/pdf_file/0009/7011/19_
 06_cowtan_coordinate_frames.pdf

 Sorry to say I apparently ditched my old Fortran o2f and f2o programs to
 do that.

 Bear in mind, however, that orthogonal has no fixed orientation with
 respect to fractional - for most space groups ncode 1 is often used but
 for primitive monoclinic ncode 3 is sometimes used, and I think the
 matrix shown in Kevin Cowtan's document above corresponds to ncode 1.

 Phil Jeffrey
 Princeton


 On 9/4/14 3:55 PM, Chen Zhao wrote:

 I am sorry, just to clarify, the fractional coordinate matrix I referred
 to is a rotational matrix in the fractional coordinate system.


 On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:52 PM, Chen Zhao c.z...@yale.edu
 mailto:c.z...@yale.edu wrote:

 Hi all,

 I am just curious whether there are some tools extracting the Euler
 angles from a fractional coordinate matrix. I have no luck searching
 it online.

 Alternatively, I found the analytical solution for the Euler angles
 from an orthogonal coordinate matrix. So in the worst case, my
 problem reduces to calculating the transformation matrix between the
 fractional and orthogonal coordinate system. I feel a little bit at
 a loss because it is 6 years since I last studied linear algebra.
 How can I calculate this for a specific unit cell?

 Thanks a lot in advance!

 Sincerely,
 Chen





Re: [ccp4bb] Reliable criteria to tell Anomalous or not?

2014-09-05 Thread Eleanor Dodson
Useable anomalous signal depends on what you want to use it for...

If it is to generate experimental phases, then the SHELXC/D/E  criteria of
Dano/SigDano are pretty good.

If you already know the structure and want to check if there is Br there
then a much weaker signal can answer the question.

You need to do a anomalous difference map and search for peaks..

Steps are:
  Run refmac to generate output file with h k l F SIGF ... PHIC .. FOM..
  Run cad to merge refmac output with the DANO SIGDANO columns generated by
Ctruncate after data processing
  runn fft  with the anomalous map option and a peak search.
  Inputs DANO SIDANO PHIC FOM
 ( fft automatically advances PHIC by 90 degrees )


(Yes - it SHOULD be automated!! )

Read the peak search into coot
Check whether the sites show up likely anomalous scatterers - eg Br, S, Ca
etc..
This often works

Eleanor




On 4 September 2014 22:47, Boaz Shaanan bshaa...@bgu.ac.il wrote:

  Also, if you process your data using XDS, it'll give you good indication
 for the strength of the anomalous signal. I find the XDS and Aimless
 indications to agree quite well.

Boaz











 *Boaz Shaanan, Ph.D. Dept. of Life
 Sciences  Ben-Gurion University of the
 Negev  Beer-Sheva
 84105
 Israel
 E-mail:
 bshaa...@bgu.ac.il bshaa...@bgu.ac.il Phone: 972-8-647-2220  Skype:
 boaz.shaanan  Fax:   972-8-647-2992 or 972-8-646-1710*





   --
 *From:* CCP4 bulletin board [CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK] on behalf of CPMAS
 Chen [cpmas...@gmail.com]
 *Sent:* Thursday, September 04, 2014 11:05 PM
 *To:* CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK
 *Subject:* [ccp4bb] Reliable criteria to tell Anomalous or not?

   Dear All CCP4 users,

  Recently, I have protein crystals cocrytallized with Br-containing
 ligand. sometimes, I feel confusion about whether the data have reliable
 anomalous information or not.

  Do you guys have some recommendation of the criteria? phenix reported
 anomalous measurability, CCP4/aimless has RCRanom. Sometimes, they are not
 consistent.

  Thanks!

  Charles

  --

 ***

 Charles Chen

 Research Associate

 University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine

 Department of Anesthesiology

 **




Re: [ccp4bb] Extract Euler angles from fractional coordinate matrix

2014-09-05 Thread Eugene Krissinel
This is just a petty function in CCP4's MMDB library -- Eugene

On 4 Sep 2014, at 20:52, Chen Zhao wrote:

 Hi all,
 
 I am just curious whether there are some tools extracting the Euler angles 
 from a fractional coordinate matrix. I have no luck searching it online. 
 
 Alternatively, I found the analytical solution for the Euler angles from an 
 orthogonal coordinate matrix. So in the worst case, my problem reduces to 
 calculating the transformation matrix between the fractional and orthogonal 
 coordinate system. I feel a little bit at a loss because it is 6 years since 
 I last studied linear algebra. How can I calculate this for a specific unit 
 cell?
 
 Thanks a lot in advance!
 
 Sincerely,
 Chen


-- 
Scanned by iCritical.



Re: [ccp4bb] Extract Euler angles from fractional coordinate matrix

2014-09-05 Thread Chen Zhao
Thank you Eleanor for your reply. I am actually considering how to describe
a pseudo-NCS with an arbitrary rotational and translational relationship. I
don't have to do this but I am just curious. It is more straightforward if
I say how the two molecules are related by a rotation around unit cell axis
than around orthogonal coordinate axis, which does not have an absolute
physical meaning.

The command line output after coot superpose prints out the rotational and
translational matrices for both the orthogonal and fractional coordinate
system.

For using coordconv, my concern is that if I deal with a low-symmetry unit
cell, which is not orthogonal by itself, the Euler angles for the
fractional coordinate system and the orthogonal coordinate system should be
different. If I just feed some numbers into coordconv, will it consider
them as orthogonal coordinates?

Thank you,
Chen

On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 6:24 AM, Eleanor Dodson eleanor.dod...@york.ac.uk
wrote:

 Rotation matrices are rarely specified in a fractional coordinate system?
 The criteria for checking such a matrix is Is the determinant 1? and this
 only holds for orthogonal matrices.



 I guess the way I would do this though.

 You presumably have two sets of fractional coordinates, before and after
 rotation?

 There is a ccp4 program - coordconv which will read the fractional
 coordinates and generate pdb format with the convention ncode = 1 (You may
 need to fudge the fractional format I suppose..)

 You can then use superpose to match the two sets of coordinates and the
 output will tell you the Eulerian angles used for the rotation!

 Lots of ways to kill cats!
   Eleanor





 On 4 September 2014 21:21, Phil Jeffrey pjeff...@princeton.edu wrote:

 The orthogonal/fractional matrix is outlined here:
 http://www.iucr.org/__data/assets/pdf_file/0009/7011/19_
 06_cowtan_coordinate_frames.pdf

 Sorry to say I apparently ditched my old Fortran o2f and f2o programs to
 do that.

 Bear in mind, however, that orthogonal has no fixed orientation with
 respect to fractional - for most space groups ncode 1 is often used but
 for primitive monoclinic ncode 3 is sometimes used, and I think the
 matrix shown in Kevin Cowtan's document above corresponds to ncode 1.

 Phil Jeffrey
 Princeton


 On 9/4/14 3:55 PM, Chen Zhao wrote:

 I am sorry, just to clarify, the fractional coordinate matrix I referred
 to is a rotational matrix in the fractional coordinate system.


 On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:52 PM, Chen Zhao c.z...@yale.edu
 mailto:c.z...@yale.edu wrote:

 Hi all,

 I am just curious whether there are some tools extracting the Euler
 angles from a fractional coordinate matrix. I have no luck searching
 it online.

 Alternatively, I found the analytical solution for the Euler angles
 from an orthogonal coordinate matrix. So in the worst case, my
 problem reduces to calculating the transformation matrix between the
 fractional and orthogonal coordinate system. I feel a little bit at
 a loss because it is 6 years since I last studied linear algebra.
 How can I calculate this for a specific unit cell?

 Thanks a lot in advance!

 Sincerely,
 Chen






[ccp4bb] refine structure with mtz file in P212121 or P222?

2014-09-05 Thread Wei Shi
Hi all,
I am working with a protein-ligand complex structure. The data was indexed
with XDS and mtz file is generated using Phenix---Reflection
tools---Reflection file editor. The space group used was P222. Then, I used
the Phenix---Molecular replacement to find a solution (try all possible in
same pointgroup), and the MR solution was in space group P212121. And then,
I reindexed the data in XDS using space group P212121 and then generate the
mtz file in space group P212121. So, I have two mtz file, in space group
P212121 and P222.
When I refine the MR solution with the different mtz files, the map
generated is not same for the ligand. The statisitcs is better with P222
mtz file than P212121 mtz file. I am wondering why the density for the
ligand and the statistics is different using mtz file in different space
groups and which mtz file should I use to get the final structure model.

Thank you so much!

Best,
Wei


Re: [ccp4bb] Extract Euler angles from fractional coordinate matrix

2014-09-05 Thread Eleanor Dodson
I don't think Eulerian angles are defined for a non-orthogonal axis system?
?

They are defined relative to perpendicular axes X Y Z
e.g.
Rotate coordinates by gamma about Z, beta about Y', alpha about Z.


Eleanor





On 5 September 2014 16:27, Chen Zhao c.z...@yale.edu wrote:

 Thank you Eleanor for your reply. I am actually considering how to
 describe a pseudo-NCS with an arbitrary rotational and translational
 relationship. I don't have to do this but I am just curious. It is more
 straightforward if I say how the two molecules are related by a rotation
 around unit cell axis than around orthogonal coordinate axis, which does
 not have an absolute physical meaning.

 The command line output after coot superpose prints out the rotational and
 translational matrices for both the orthogonal and fractional coordinate
 system.

 For using coordconv, my concern is that if I deal with a low-symmetry unit
 cell, which is not orthogonal by itself, the Euler angles for the
 fractional coordinate system and the orthogonal coordinate system should be
 different. If I just feed some numbers into coordconv, will it consider
 them as orthogonal coordinates?

 Thank you,
 Chen

 On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 6:24 AM, Eleanor Dodson eleanor.dod...@york.ac.uk
 wrote:

 Rotation matrices are rarely specified in a fractional coordinate
 system?  The criteria for checking such a matrix is Is the determinant 1?
 and this only holds for orthogonal matrices.



 I guess the way I would do this though.

 You presumably have two sets of fractional coordinates, before and after
 rotation?

 There is a ccp4 program - coordconv which will read the fractional
 coordinates and generate pdb format with the convention ncode = 1 (You may
 need to fudge the fractional format I suppose..)

 You can then use superpose to match the two sets of coordinates and the
 output will tell you the Eulerian angles used for the rotation!

 Lots of ways to kill cats!
   Eleanor





 On 4 September 2014 21:21, Phil Jeffrey pjeff...@princeton.edu wrote:

 The orthogonal/fractional matrix is outlined here:
 http://www.iucr.org/__data/assets/pdf_file/0009/7011/19_
 06_cowtan_coordinate_frames.pdf

 Sorry to say I apparently ditched my old Fortran o2f and f2o programs to
 do that.

 Bear in mind, however, that orthogonal has no fixed orientation with
 respect to fractional - for most space groups ncode 1 is often used but
 for primitive monoclinic ncode 3 is sometimes used, and I think the
 matrix shown in Kevin Cowtan's document above corresponds to ncode 1.

 Phil Jeffrey
 Princeton


 On 9/4/14 3:55 PM, Chen Zhao wrote:

 I am sorry, just to clarify, the fractional coordinate matrix I referred
 to is a rotational matrix in the fractional coordinate system.


 On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:52 PM, Chen Zhao c.z...@yale.edu
 mailto:c.z...@yale.edu wrote:

 Hi all,

 I am just curious whether there are some tools extracting the Euler
 angles from a fractional coordinate matrix. I have no luck searching
 it online.

 Alternatively, I found the analytical solution for the Euler angles
 from an orthogonal coordinate matrix. So in the worst case, my
 problem reduces to calculating the transformation matrix between the
 fractional and orthogonal coordinate system. I feel a little bit at
 a loss because it is 6 years since I last studied linear algebra.
 How can I calculate this for a specific unit cell?

 Thanks a lot in advance!

 Sincerely,
 Chen







Re: [ccp4bb] refine structure with mtz file in P212121 or P222?

2014-09-05 Thread Eleanor Dodson
Point 1) You don't need to reindex the data to change SG from P222 to
P212121. Indexing and integration use the lattice type , and scaling the
point group - not the space group. The only difference between the 2 space
groups is that the odd axial reflections will be assent in P212121.

Point 2) That is very very strange - if your solution is found for SG
P212121 it is surprising if the refinement works better in P222!


But check how the refinement and map generation is done. If the PDB file
defines the SG as P212121 then maybe the refinement assumes the mtz file
should also have that symmetry..




On 5 September 2014 16:54, Wei Shi wei.shi...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi all,
 I am working with a protein-ligand complex structure. The data was indexed
 with XDS and mtz file is generated using Phenix---Reflection
 tools---Reflection file editor. The space group used was P222. Then, I used
 the Phenix---Molecular replacement to find a solution (try all possible in
 same pointgroup), and the MR solution was in space group P212121. And then,
 I reindexed the data in XDS using space group P212121 and then generate the
 mtz file in space group P212121. So, I have two mtz file, in space group
 P212121 and P222.
 When I refine the MR solution with the different mtz files, the map
 generated is not same for the ligand. The statisitcs is better with P222
 mtz file than P212121 mtz file. I am wondering why the density for the
 ligand and the statistics is different using mtz file in different space
 groups and which mtz file should I use to get the final structure model.

 Thank you so much!

 Best,
 Wei



Re: [ccp4bb] Extract Euler angles from fractional coordinate matrix

2014-09-05 Thread Chen Zhao
I am sorry for my carelessness on the definition of Euler angles. I am just
thinking of an Euler angle equivalent. Sorry for the confusion I have made.


On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 3:34 PM, Eleanor Dodson eleanor.dod...@york.ac.uk
wrote:

 I don't think Eulerian angles are defined for a non-orthogonal axis
 system? ?

 They are defined relative to perpendicular axes X Y Z
 e.g.
 Rotate coordinates by gamma about Z, beta about Y', alpha about Z.


 Eleanor





 On 5 September 2014 16:27, Chen Zhao c.z...@yale.edu wrote:

 Thank you Eleanor for your reply. I am actually considering how to
 describe a pseudo-NCS with an arbitrary rotational and translational
 relationship. I don't have to do this but I am just curious. It is more
 straightforward if I say how the two molecules are related by a rotation
 around unit cell axis than around orthogonal coordinate axis, which does
 not have an absolute physical meaning.

 The command line output after coot superpose prints out the rotational
 and translational matrices for both the orthogonal and fractional
 coordinate system.

 For using coordconv, my concern is that if I deal with a low-symmetry
 unit cell, which is not orthogonal by itself, the Euler angles for the
 fractional coordinate system and the orthogonal coordinate system should be
 different. If I just feed some numbers into coordconv, will it consider
 them as orthogonal coordinates?

 Thank you,
 Chen

 On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 6:24 AM, Eleanor Dodson eleanor.dod...@york.ac.uk
  wrote:

 Rotation matrices are rarely specified in a fractional coordinate
 system?  The criteria for checking such a matrix is Is the determinant 1?
 and this only holds for orthogonal matrices.



 I guess the way I would do this though.

 You presumably have two sets of fractional coordinates, before and after
 rotation?

 There is a ccp4 program - coordconv which will read the fractional
 coordinates and generate pdb format with the convention ncode = 1 (You may
 need to fudge the fractional format I suppose..)

 You can then use superpose to match the two sets of coordinates and the
 output will tell you the Eulerian angles used for the rotation!

 Lots of ways to kill cats!
   Eleanor





 On 4 September 2014 21:21, Phil Jeffrey pjeff...@princeton.edu wrote:

 The orthogonal/fractional matrix is outlined here:
 http://www.iucr.org/__data/assets/pdf_file/0009/7011/19_
 06_cowtan_coordinate_frames.pdf

 Sorry to say I apparently ditched my old Fortran o2f and f2o programs
 to do that.

 Bear in mind, however, that orthogonal has no fixed orientation with
 respect to fractional - for most space groups ncode 1 is often used but
 for primitive monoclinic ncode 3 is sometimes used, and I think the
 matrix shown in Kevin Cowtan's document above corresponds to ncode 1.

 Phil Jeffrey
 Princeton


 On 9/4/14 3:55 PM, Chen Zhao wrote:

 I am sorry, just to clarify, the fractional coordinate matrix I
 referred
 to is a rotational matrix in the fractional coordinate system.


 On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:52 PM, Chen Zhao c.z...@yale.edu
 mailto:c.z...@yale.edu wrote:

 Hi all,

 I am just curious whether there are some tools extracting the Euler
 angles from a fractional coordinate matrix. I have no luck
 searching
 it online.

 Alternatively, I found the analytical solution for the Euler angles
 from an orthogonal coordinate matrix. So in the worst case, my
 problem reduces to calculating the transformation matrix between
 the
 fractional and orthogonal coordinate system. I feel a little bit at
 a loss because it is 6 years since I last studied linear algebra.
 How can I calculate this for a specific unit cell?

 Thanks a lot in advance!

 Sincerely,
 Chen








Re: [ccp4bb] refine structure with mtz file in P212121 or P222?

2014-09-05 Thread Roger Rowlett
As always, look at the unit cell packing of your alternative solutions. 
In all likelihood one of these two solutions from Phaser should pack 
sensibly in the unit cell, and the other will not. You may get some sort 
of quasi-reasonable-looking electron density out of the wrong solution 
initially, but usually not.


It is possible that you indexed, integrated, and scaled in P222 and 
P212121, but if you do a full automated search in Phaser it will look 
for solutions in both space groups, and may have written out a solution 
in the same spacegroup both times.  (Check the log file or PDB header.)


Cheers,

___
Roger S. Rowlett
Gordon  Dorothy Kline Professor
Department of Chemistry
Colgate University
13 Oak Drive
Hamilton, NY 13346

tel: (315)-228-7245
ofc: (315)-228-7395
fax: (315)-228-7935
email: rrowl...@colgate.edu

On 9/5/2014 11:54 AM, Wei Shi wrote:

Hi all,
I am working with a protein-ligand complex structure. The data was 
indexed with XDS and mtz file is generated using Phenix---Reflection 
tools---Reflection file editor. The space group used was P222. Then, I 
used the Phenix---Molecular replacement to find a solution (try all 
possible in same pointgroup), and the MR solution was in space group 
P212121. And then, I reindexed the data in XDS using space group 
P212121 and then generate the mtz file in space group P212121. So, I 
have two mtz file, in space group P212121 and P222.
When I refine the MR solution with the different mtz files, the map 
generated is not same for the ligand. The statisitcs is better with 
P222 mtz file than P212121 mtz file. I am wondering why the density 
for the ligand and the statistics is different using mtz file in 
different space groups and which mtz file should I use to get the 
final structure model.


Thank you so much!

Best,
Wei


Re: [ccp4bb] refine structure with mtz file in P212121 or P222?

2014-09-05 Thread Wei Shi
Thank you! Yes, the PDB file defines the SG as P212121. When I load pdb
file from phaser (P222 mtz file as data and the solution is in P212121)
into Phenix.refine, Phenix.refine automatically assumes that the space
group is P212121.
I am not sure in this case why using P222 mtz and P212121 mtz to do
refinement would make a difference in the map. The difference is not very
big but it's different for some atoms of the ligand

Thank you!

Best,
Wei





On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 3:40 PM, Eleanor Dodson eleanor.dod...@york.ac.uk
wrote:

 Point 1) You don't need to reindex the data to change SG from P222 to
 P212121. Indexing and integration use the lattice type , and scaling the
 point group - not the space group. The only difference between the 2 space
 groups is that the odd axial reflections will be assent in P212121.

 Point 2) That is very very strange - if your solution is found for SG
 P212121 it is surprising if the refinement works better in P222!


 But check how the refinement and map generation is done. If the PDB file
 defines the SG as P212121 then maybe the refinement assumes the mtz file
 should also have that symmetry..




 On 5 September 2014 16:54, Wei Shi wei.shi...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi all,
 I am working with a protein-ligand complex structure. The data was
 indexed with XDS and mtz file is generated using Phenix---Reflection
 tools---Reflection file editor. The space group used was P222. Then, I used
 the Phenix---Molecular replacement to find a solution (try all possible in
 same pointgroup), and the MR solution was in space group P212121. And then,
 I reindexed the data in XDS using space group P212121 and then generate the
 mtz file in space group P212121. So, I have two mtz file, in space group
 P212121 and P222.
 When I refine the MR solution with the different mtz files, the map
 generated is not same for the ligand. The statisitcs is better with P222
 mtz file than P212121 mtz file. I am wondering why the density for the
 ligand and the statistics is different using mtz file in different space
 groups and which mtz file should I use to get the final structure model.

 Thank you so much!

 Best,
 Wei