Re: [ccp4bb] [ccp4b] statistical or systematic? bias or noise?

2013-03-13 Thread Ed Pozharski
Adam,

OK, seems like you are going with it's always statistical error we just
don't yet know what it is option.

Ed.

On Tue, 2013-03-12 at 16:15 +, Adam Ralph wrote:
 Hi Ed,
 
 
  You can have both types of error in a single experiment, however
 you cannot determine 
 statistical (precision or as Ian says uncontrollable) error with one
 experiment. The manufacturer
 will usually give some specs on the pipette, 6ul +/- 1ul. In order to
 verify the specs
 you would need to perform many pipetting experiments. But even if the
 manufacturer does not give 
 any specs you still know that the pipette is not perfect and there
 will be a statistical error, you
 just do not know what it is.
 
 
 In theory, accuracy or bias could be determined with one
 experiment. Lets say you thought
 you had a 6ul pipette but actually it was a 12ul pipette. If you then
 compare the 'new' pipette
 against a standard you could tell if it was inaccurate. Of course
 normally you would repeat 
 this experiment as well because of statistical error. If detected bias
 can be removed. Systematic 
 error may not be so easily detected. What if the standard is also
 biased.
 
 
 Adam
 
 
 
 
  One can say it's inaccuracy when it is not estimated and imprecision
  when it is.  Or one can accept Ian's suggestion and notice that
 there is
  no fundamental difference between things you can control and things
 you
  can potentially control.

-- 
Edwin Pozharski, PhD, Assistant Professor
University of Maryland, Baltimore
--
When the Way is forgotten duty and justice appear;
Then knowledge and wisdom are born along with hypocrisy.
When harmonious relationships dissolve then respect and devotion arise;
When a nation falls to chaos then loyalty and patriotism are born.
--   / Lao Tse /


Re: [ccp4bb] [ccp4b] statistical or systematic? bias or noise?

2013-03-12 Thread Adam Ralph
Hi Ed,


     You can have both types of error in a single experiment, however you 
cannot determine 
statistical (precision or as Ian says uncontrollable) error with one 
experiment. The manufacturer
will usually give some specs on the pipette, 6ul +/- 1ul. In order to verify 
the specs
you would need to perform many pipetting experiments. But even if the 
manufacturer does not give 
any specs you still know that the pipette is not perfect and there will be a 
statistical error, you
just do not know what it is.


    In theory, accuracy or bias could be determined with one experiment. Lets 
say you thought
you had a 6ul pipette but actually it was a 12ul pipette. If you then compare 
the 'new' pipette
against a standard you could tell if it was inaccurate. Of course normally you 
would repeat 
this experiment as well because of statistical error. If detected bias can be 
removed. Systematic 
error may not be so easily detected. What if the standard is also biased.


Adam




 One can say it's inaccuracy when it is not estimated and imprecision
 when it is.  Or one can accept Ian's suggestion and notice that there is
 no fundamental difference between things you can control and things you
 can potentially control.