[ccp4bb] 3D Glasses - Vuzix HMD by eDimensional
Dear Colleagues, I found out that eDimensional sells the Vuzix HMD 3D glasses, but their stereo drivers only work in windows. I suppose that they should also work under Linux with the Nvidia stereo drivers. However because we must pay by purchase order and bank transfer, they will not honor the 30-day money back warranty in case the glasses don't work, and that would be an expensive mistake. Therefore, I'm asking whether anybody in this community has had any experience with these glasses, in either Windows or Linux environments, using programs such as Coot for 3D stereo visualization. I know there are other such system out there but these seem to be the cheapest I found so far. Thanks in advance, Pedro Matias Industry and Medicine Applied Crystallography Macromolecular Crystallography Unit ___ Phones : (351-21) 446-9100 Ext. 1669 (351-21) 446-9669 (direct) Fax : (351-21) 441-1277 or 443-3644 email : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mailing address : Instituto de Tecnologia Quimica e Biologica Apartado 127 2781-901 OEIRAS Portugal
Re: [ccp4bb] 3D Glasses - Vuzix HMD by eDimensional
Anastassis Perrakis wrote: While we are on the subject, does anyone in general have working in their labs a stereo-3D solution that does not require CRT monitors but works on LCD and preferably with Linux or OSX ? (any windows hints are welcome as well). Yes indeed. We have a 20 one of these: http://www.inition.co.uk/inition/product.php?URL_=product_stereovis_omnia_mimoSubCatID_=3 on one of our Linux workstations. After the original Acer screens were swapped for Samsung ones it is excellent. People like it for the lack of flicker and consequent lack of headaches! It has a wide angle of view, and several people can see stereo on the same screen at the same time, and there is no cross-talk between different displays in the same room. It needs to be driven by an nVidia FX-series graphics card, with dual DVI outputs. Other cards with dual outputs can be made to work, but the nVidia driver can intercept the conventional quad-buffered screen swapping instructions and divert the two eye views tot he different displays. Thus most software that is already stereo-capable will work without modification. In case this sounds a little too glowing, I should point out that I have no connection with the suppliers or the manufacturers, except as a customer! Andrew -- Dr. Andrew Raine, Head of IT, MRC Dunn Human Nutrition Unit, Wellcome Trust/MRC Building, Hills Road, Cambridge, CB2 2XY, UK phone: +44 (0)1223 252830 fax: +44 (0)1223 252835 web: www.mrc-dunn.cam.ac.uk email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [ccp4bb] 3D Glasses - Vuzix HMD by eDimensional
At USD 7000 it's not exactly the cheap solution I was looking for... At 10:46 04-02-2008, Andrew Raine wrote: Anastassis Perrakis wrote: While we are on the subject, does anyone in general have working in their labs a stereo-3D solution that does not require CRT monitors but works on LCD and preferably with Linux or OSX ? (any windows hints are welcome as well). Yes indeed. We have a 20 one of these: http://www.inition.co.uk/inition/product.php?URL_=product_stereovis_omnia_mimoSubCatID_=3 on one of our Linux workstations. After the original Acer screens were swapped for Samsung ones it is excellent. People like it for the lack of flicker and consequent lack of headaches! It has a wide angle of view, and several people can see stereo on the same screen at the same time, and there is no cross-talk between different displays in the same room. It needs to be driven by an nVidia FX-series graphics card, with dual DVI outputs. Other cards with dual outputs can be made to work, but the nVidia driver can intercept the conventional quad-buffered screen swapping instructions and divert the two eye views tot he different displays. Thus most software that is already stereo-capable will work without modification. In case this sounds a little too glowing, I should point out that I have no connection with the suppliers or the manufacturers, except as a customer! Andrew -- Dr. Andrew Raine, Head of IT, MRC Dunn Human Nutrition Unit, Wellcome Trust/MRC Building, Hills Road, Cambridge, CB2 2XY, UK phone: +44 (0)1223 252830 fax: +44 (0)1223 252835 web: www.mrc-dunn.cam.ac.uk email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Industry and Medicine Applied Crystallography Macromolecular Crystallography Unit ___ Phones : (351-21) 446-9100 Ext. 1669 (351-21) 446-9669 (direct) Fax : (351-21) 441-1277 or 443-3644 email : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mailing address : Instituto de Tecnologia Quimica e Biologica Apartado 127 2781-901 OEIRAS Portugal
Re: [ccp4bb] 3D Glasses - Vuzix HMD by eDimensional
Hi Andrew, Just like the commercial systems, the glass is the only special piece of kit (which can be bought separately). The LCD monitors are just set up to display either left or right channel. If you ask me, I think these companies are just a rip off! Paul Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 11:24:32 + From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] 3D Glasses - Vuzix HMD by eDimensional To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK P Hubbard wrote: Just an FYI you can build those yourself at a fraction of the price! You just need the special piece of glass, two identical LCD monitors, and an edited X config file. The clever bit of the Omnia system (and the similar one from Planar, which being from the US might be cheaper there...?) is the DVI reflector card that flips the image to be displayed on the screen seen in the half-silvered mirror. Are you implying that an appropriately written Xorg.conf can get the graphics card to do this instead? The prospect is very appealing! Regards, Andrew -- Dr. Andrew Raine, Head of IT, MRC Dunn Human Nutrition Unit, Wellcome Trust/MRC Building, Hills Road, Cambridge, CB2 2XY, UK phone: +44 (0)1223 252830 fax: +44 (0)1223 252835 web: www.mrc-dunn.cam.ac.uk email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join
Re: [ccp4bb] 3D Glasses - Vuzix HMD by eDimensional
Okay, I was wrong. On two points... What I'd forgotten is that LCD displays produce polarized light (and so do TFT displays, for that matter), so you don't need a sheet of Polaroid to polarize the light from the vertical display. The half-silvered mirror is there (of course, I hear the cries) to make sure you have enough light reflected from the horizontal monitor to be about the same as the light transmitted from the vertical one. On 4 Feb 2008, at 12:09, Harry Powell wrote: Hi Just looking at the diagrams, I don't think the glass is half-silvered - it looks like a large sheet of Polaroid™. It only needs to polarize the transmitted light from the vertically oriented monitor, since the reflected light from the interface between two materials (at least one of which has a refractive index) will be polarized in any case (that's why your Polaroid™ sunglasses let you see below the waves...). My physics is too rusty to remember, but I think the vertical monitor in this case needs to be polarized vertically, since the reflected polarized light will be horizontal. No idea where you can buy large sheets of Polaroid™ though. IMWBW, though... On 4 Feb 2008, at 11:30, P Hubbard wrote: Hi Andrew, Just like the commercial systems, the glass is the only special piece of kit (which can be bought separately). The LCD monitors are just set up to display either left or right channel. If you ask me, I think these companies are just a rip off! Paul Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 11:24:32 + From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] 3D Glasses - Vuzix HMD by eDimensional To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK P Hubbard wrote: Just an FYI you can build those yourself at a fraction of the price! You just need the special piece of glass, two identical LCD monitors, and an edited X config file. The clever bit of the Omnia system (and the similar one from Planar, which being from the US might be cheaper there...?) is the DVI reflector card that flips the image to be displayed on the screen seen in the half-silvered mirror. Are you implying that an appropriately written Xorg.conf can get the graphics card to do this instead? The prospect is very appealing! Regards, Andrew -- Dr. Andrew Raine, Head of IT, MRC Dunn Human Nutrition Unit, Wellcome Trust/MRC Building, Hills Road, Cambridge, CB2 2XY, UK phone: +44 (0)1223 252830 fax: +44 (0)1223 252835 web: www.mrc-dunn.cam.ac.uk email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give. Learn more. Harry -- Dr Harry Powell, MRC Laboratory of Molecular Biology, MRC Centre, Hills Road, Cambridge, CB2 2QH Harry -- Dr Harry Powell, MRC Laboratory of Molecular Biology, MRC Centre, Hills Road, Cambridge, CB2 2QH
Re: [ccp4bb] WG: [ccp4bb] 3D Glasses - Vuzix HMD by eDimensional
Hi Gregor, I think this LCD monitor is not useful since the refresh rate is only 75 Hz, thus in stereo 2 x 37.5 Hz and that is going to give a big headache. I know Samsung is working on a 100 Hz LCD-TV. Nevertheless, the goal is not for stereo but to suppress the afterglow effects again. They tried to insert a black picture in between the normal ones but this had too many unwanted side-effects. Currently, they are working on an additional graphics chip incorporated into the screen that calculates an intermediate picture between two pictures so the changes are more gradual and they claim this provides a very nice movie quality Too bad again, this technology is also not what we are looking for! It would actually destroy the stereo effect! CRTs are still the best and the cheapest solution for now. Jeroen. Gregor Witte wrote: Hi all, I've just read about a cheap TFT-screen 3D-glasses combination from ZALMAN (ZM-M220W 22 TFT with 2x 3D-glasses). I don't know if one can use with linux but the technical specs look like it's using the normal Nvidia driver. I think maybe the refresh-rate is either too low or the afterglowing too long for 3D-model-building and thus it will produce a bad headache after some hours, but maybe it's worth a try... Even if I doubt it with regard to the price... Actually I've just written an email to the german reseller with loads of questions about the TFT and the possible use with linux/coot. Unfortunately there's only a german web-page ... You can find it at http://www.alternate.de/html/product/details.html?articleId=193317 and you have to klick on Ausfuehrliche Details for the specs) (euro 599,-) There's also a 19 TFT 3D-glasses set available ( ...?articleId=193301 ) Gregor - Dr. Gregor Witte University of Munich Gene Center/Institute of Biochemistry mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: CCP4 bulletin board [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Anastassis Perrakis Gesendet: Montag, 4. Februar 2008 11:34 An: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Betreff: Re: [ccp4bb] 3D Glasses - Vuzix HMD by eDimensional Dear all - While we are on the subject, does anyone in general have working in their labs a stereo-3D solution that does not require CRT monitors but works on LCD and preferably with Linux or OSX ? (any windows hints are welcome as well). Tassos On Feb 4, 2008, at 10:12, Pedro M. Matias wrote: Dear Colleagues, I found out that eDimensional sells the Vuzix HMD 3D glasses, but their stereo drivers only work in windows. I suppose that they should also work under Linux with the Nvidia stereo drivers. However because we must pay by purchase order and bank transfer, they will not honor the 30-day money back warranty in case the glasses don't work, and that would be an expensive mistake. Therefore, I'm asking whether anybody in this community has had any experience with these glasses, in either Windows or Linux environments, using programs such as Coot for 3D stereo visualization. I know there are other such system out there but these seem to be the cheapest I found so far. Thanks in advance, Pedro Matias Industry and Medicine Applied Crystallography Macromolecular Crystallography Unit ___ Phones : (351-21) 446-9100 Ext. 1669 (351-21) 446-9669 (direct) Fax : (351-21) 441-1277 or 443-3644 email : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mailing address : Instituto de Tecnologia Quimica e Biologica Apartado 127 2781-901 OEIRAS Portugal
Re: [ccp4bb] 3D Glasses - Vuzix HMD by eDimensional
Pedro, The DV920 works even with frame-sequential stereo, but with a native resolution of 640x480, they aren't useful for real work. Plus, they're not all that comfortable -- I returned them after a couple of week. According to the Vuzix rep I spoke to on the phone, we are still years away from having 1024x768 or better resolution in sub-$1,000 consumer VR glasses. Cheers, Warren -Original Message- From: CCP4 bulletin board [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pedro M. Matias Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 8:49 AM To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] 3D Glasses - Vuzix HMD by eDimensional Hi, Jeroen The Vuzix VR920 should provide a cheap 3D stereo alternative to CRT monitors, because it contains two small LCD screens - if one displays a right eye view and the other a left eye view we'd have a situation similar to older display systems, with side-by-side stereo and a 3D viewer with mirrors. Afterglow and flicker wouldn't be a problem because each LCD would always receive the same eye view. In Linux with an NVIDIA Quadro card, this might (?) be achieved by option 4 TwinView clone mode stereo, provided each LCD can be perceived as a single display. Regards, Pedro. At 14:24 04-02-2008, Jeroen Mesters wrote: Dear Pedro, there is no cheap solution for now, the 3D community has to wait for a few years more I think to be presented with a good stereo-capable LCD. The problem is not the refresh rate (as low as 5 ms nowadays) but it is the after glow effect... that is one of the reasons why LCDs provide a stable picture at just 60 Hz refresh rate in contrast to CRTs that look stable at 85 - 100 Hz. The cheapest solution is still the good old CRT (there are still a few around) with nuvision stereo glasses. For example, you can still buy the Samsung SyncMaster 1100MB that has sufficient rates (Vert x Hori 160 Hz x 130 kHz) to do the job. If you can, wait a few years ... Jeroen. p.s. There are also some (more expensive) active stereo beamers around (we own an Infocus DepthQ) and they provide a nice active stereo picture on the wall: - http://www.digital-image.de/ - http://www.depthq.com/ Pedro M. Matias wrote: At USD 7000 it's not exactly the cheap solution I was looking for... At 10:46 04-02-2008, Andrew Raine wrote: Anastassis Perrakis wrote: While we are on the subject, does anyone in general have working in their labs a stereo-3D solution that does not require CRT monitors but works on LCD and preferably with Linux or OSX ? (any windows hints are welcome as well). Yes indeed. We have a 20 one of these: http://www.inition.co.uk/inition/product.php?URL_=product_stereovis_om nia_mimoSubCatID_=3 on one of our Linux workstations. After the original Acer screens were swapped for Samsung ones it is excellent. People like it for the lack of flicker and consequent lack of headaches! It has a wide angle of view, and several people can see stereo on the same screen at the same time, and there is no cross-talk between different displays in the same room. It needs to be driven by an nVidia FX-series graphics card, with dual DVI outputs. Other cards with dual outputs can be made to work, but the nVidia driver can intercept the conventional quad-buffered screen swapping instructions and divert the two eye views tot he different displays. Thus most software that is already stereo-capable will work without modification. In case this sounds a little too glowing, I should point out that I have no connection with the suppliers or the manufacturers, except as a customer! Andrew -- Dr. Andrew Raine, Head of IT, MRC Dunn Human Nutrition Unit, Wellcome Trust/MRC Building, Hills Road, Cambridge, CB2 2XY, UK phone: +44 (0)1223 252830 fax: +44 (0)1223 252835 web: www.mrc-dunn.cam.ac.uk email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Industry and Medicine Applied Crystallography Macromolecular Crystallography Unit ___ Phones : (351-21) 446-9100 Ext. 1669 (351-21) 446-9669 (direct) Fax : (351-21) 441-1277 or 443-3644 email : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mailing address : Instituto de Tecnologia Quimica e Biologica Apartado 127 2781-901 OEIRAS Portugal Industry and Medicine Applied Crystallography Macromolecular Crystallography Unit ___ Phones : (351-21) 446-9100 Ext. 1669 (351-21) 446-9669 (direct) Fax : (351-21) 441-1277 or 443-3644 email : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mailing address : Instituto de Tecnologia Quimica e Biologica Apartado 127 2781-901 OEIRAS Portugal
Re: [ccp4bb] 3D Glasses - Vuzix HMD by eDimensional
Hi, Jeroen The Vuzix VR920 should provide a cheap 3D stereo alternative to CRT monitors, because it contains two small LCD screens - if one displays a right eye view and the other a left eye view we'd have a situation similar to older display systems, with side-by-side stereo and a 3D viewer with mirrors. Afterglow and flicker wouldn't be a problem because each LCD would always receive the same eye view. In Linux with an NVIDIA Quadro card, this might (?) be achieved by option 4 TwinView clone mode stereo, provided each LCD can be perceived as a single display. Regards, Pedro. At 14:24 04-02-2008, Jeroen Mesters wrote: Dear Pedro, there is no cheap solution for now, the 3D community has to wait for a few years more I think to be presented with a good stereo-capable LCD. The problem is not the refresh rate (as low as 5 ms nowadays) but it is the after glow effect... that is one of the reasons why LCDs provide a stable picture at just 60 Hz refresh rate in contrast to CRTs that look stable at 85 - 100 Hz. The cheapest solution is still the good old CRT (there are still a few around) with nuvision stereo glasses. For example, you can still buy the Samsung SyncMaster 1100MB that has sufficient rates (Vert x Hori 160 Hz x 130 kHz) to do the job. If you can, wait a few years ... Jeroen. p.s. There are also some (more expensive) active stereo beamers around (we own an Infocus DepthQ) and they provide a nice active stereo picture on the wall: - http://www.digital-image.de/ - http://www.depthq.com/ Pedro M. Matias wrote: At USD 7000 it's not exactly the cheap solution I was looking for... At 10:46 04-02-2008, Andrew Raine wrote: Anastassis Perrakis wrote: While we are on the subject, does anyone in general have working in their labs a stereo-3D solution that does not require CRT monitors but works on LCD and preferably with Linux or OSX ? (any windows hints are welcome as well). Yes indeed. We have a 20 one of these: http://www.inition.co.uk/inition/product.php?URL_=product_stereovis_omnia_mimoSubCatID_=3 on one of our Linux workstations. After the original Acer screens were swapped for Samsung ones it is excellent. People like it for the lack of flicker and consequent lack of headaches! It has a wide angle of view, and several people can see stereo on the same screen at the same time, and there is no cross-talk between different displays in the same room. It needs to be driven by an nVidia FX-series graphics card, with dual DVI outputs. Other cards with dual outputs can be made to work, but the nVidia driver can intercept the conventional quad-buffered screen swapping instructions and divert the two eye views tot he different displays. Thus most software that is already stereo-capable will work without modification. In case this sounds a little too glowing, I should point out that I have no connection with the suppliers or the manufacturers, except as a customer! Andrew -- Dr. Andrew Raine, Head of IT, MRC Dunn Human Nutrition Unit, Wellcome Trust/MRC Building, Hills Road, Cambridge, CB2 2XY, UK phone: +44 (0)1223 252830 fax: +44 (0)1223 252835 web: www.mrc-dunn.cam.ac.uk email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Industry and Medicine Applied Crystallography Macromolecular Crystallography Unit ___ Phones : (351-21) 446-9100 Ext. 1669 (351-21) 446-9669 (direct) Fax : (351-21) 441-1277 or 443-3644 email : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mailing address : Instituto de Tecnologia Quimica e Biologica Apartado 127 2781-901 OEIRAS Portugal Industry and Medicine Applied Crystallography Macromolecular Crystallography Unit ___ Phones : (351-21) 446-9100 Ext. 1669 (351-21) 446-9669 (direct) Fax : (351-21) 441-1277 or 443-3644 email : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mailing address : Instituto de Tecnologia Quimica e Biologica Apartado 127 2781-901 OEIRAS Portugal
Re: [ccp4bb] 3D Glasses - Vuzix HMD by eDimensional
Hi all, There's a pretty good description of how it works, and how to make one yourself here: http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=32547 I've never used one myself, and I personally feel that LCD stereo with a large f.o.v. on a single flat panel should be available soon (I think they just need to solve the polarization problem as some LCD TVs run at 120 Hz now). I think most people would prefer that too. By the way, image inversion/mirroring can be done using Nvidia Windows drivers... but I'm not 100% sure about doing it in Linux as I've never tried it. P.S: I shouldn't suggest these companies are over charging - though to me they seem to charge an awful lot of money given the components and skill/technology level needed to make them. Maybe I'm way off mark?! AGS Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 12:09:33 + From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] 3D Glasses - Vuzix HMD by eDimensional To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Hi Just looking at the diagrams, I don't think the glass is half-silvered - it looks like a large sheet of Polaroid™. It only needs to polarize the transmitted light from the vertically oriented monitor, since the reflected light from the interface between two materials (at least one of which has a refractive index) will be polarized in any case (that's why your Polaroid™ sunglasses let you see below the waves...). My physics is too rusty to remember, but I think the vertical monitor in this case needs to be polarized vertically, since the reflected polarized light will be horizontal. No idea where you can buy large sheets of Polaroid™ though. IMWBW, though... On 4 Feb 2008, at 11:30, P Hubbard wrote: Hi Andrew, Just like the commercial systems, the glass is the only special piece of kit (which can be bought separately). The LCD monitors are just set up to display either left or right channel. If you ask me, I think these companies are just a rip off! Paul Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 11:24:32 + From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] 3D Glasses - Vuzix HMD by eDimensional To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK P Hubbard wrote: Just an FYI you can build those yourself at a fraction of the price! You just need the special piece of glass, two identical LCD monitors, and an edited X config file. The clever bit of the Omnia system (and the similar one from Planar, which being from the US might be cheaper there...?) is the DVI reflector card that flips the image to be displayed on the screen seen in the half-silvered mirror. Are you implying that an appropriately written Xorg.conf can get the graphics card to do this instead? The prospect is very appealing! Regards, Andrew -- Dr. Andrew Raine, Head of IT, MRC Dunn Human Nutrition Unit, Wellcome Trust/MRC Building, Hills Road, Cambridge, CB2 2XY, UK phone: +44 (0)1223 252830 fax: +44 (0)1223 252835 web: www.mrc-dunn.cam.ac.uk email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give. Learn more. Harry -- Dr Harry Powell, MRC Laboratory of Molecular Biology, MRC Centre, Hills Road, Cambridge, CB2 2QH _ Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser! http://biggestloser.msn.com/
Re: [ccp4bb] 3D Glasses - Vuzix HMD by eDimensional
Hi Just looking at the diagrams, I don't think the glass is half-silvered - it looks like a large sheet of Polaroid™. It only needs to polarize the transmitted light from the vertically oriented monitor, since the reflected light from the interface between two materials (at least one of which has a refractive index) will be polarized in any case (that's why your Polaroid™ sunglasses let you see below the waves...). My physics is too rusty to remember, but I think the vertical monitor in this case needs to be polarized vertically, since the reflected polarized light will be horizontal. No idea where you can buy large sheets of Polaroid™ though. IMWBW, though... On 4 Feb 2008, at 11:30, P Hubbard wrote: Hi Andrew, Just like the commercial systems, the glass is the only special piece of kit (which can be bought separately). The LCD monitors are just set up to display either left or right channel. If you ask me, I think these companies are just a rip off! Paul Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 11:24:32 + From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] 3D Glasses - Vuzix HMD by eDimensional To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK P Hubbard wrote: Just an FYI you can build those yourself at a fraction of the price! You just need the special piece of glass, two identical LCD monitors, and an edited X config file. The clever bit of the Omnia system (and the similar one from Planar, which being from the US might be cheaper there...?) is the DVI reflector card that flips the image to be displayed on the screen seen in the half-silvered mirror. Are you implying that an appropriately written Xorg.conf can get the graphics card to do this instead? The prospect is very appealing! Regards, Andrew -- Dr. Andrew Raine, Head of IT, MRC Dunn Human Nutrition Unit, Wellcome Trust/MRC Building, Hills Road, Cambridge, CB2 2XY, UK phone: +44 (0)1223 252830 fax: +44 (0)1223 252835 web: www.mrc-dunn.cam.ac.uk email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give. Learn more. Harry -- Dr Harry Powell, MRC Laboratory of Molecular Biology, MRC Centre, Hills Road, Cambridge, CB2 2QH
Re: [ccp4bb] 3D Glasses - Vuzix HMD by eDimensional
Hi, We tested a Planar 17 stereo monitor a year or so ago on our Macs (with the image flipping card) and the problem was that although the stereo effect was nice, we had to use side-by-side and an extended desktop stereo in eg. PyMol to get the left and right eye images to the right monitors. While this is relatively easy to do, the problem is that your mouse pointer is in either screen and you never know which one... In practice it was fine for looking at stereo, but for building a model etc. it was pretty useless. It also turned out that the medical imaging people etc. usually have a _third_ LCD on the side to rotate the image. I don't know if you could make Xorg.conf to turn a quad-buffered stereo signal useful for this or alternatively make the software (PyMol, coot, etc.) support this type of stereo, but without that I would not recommend this system for xtallography.. The mirror at least in the Planar system is definitely half-silvered (so it will turn the polarisation of the upper monitor) and it's positioning had to be pretty precise to get a nice image. So while you might build such a system your self, it might take some time and machining... Esko Esko Oksanen, M.Sc. European Molecular Biology Laboratory, Grenoble Outstation 6 rue Jules Horowitz BP 181 38042 Grenoble Cedex 9 FRANCE tel. +33-4-76207633 mob. +33-6-67416110 Skype ejoksane [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quoting Harry Powell [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi Just looking at the diagrams, I don't think the glass is half-silvered - it looks like a large sheet of Polaroid(TM). It only needs to polarize the transmitted light from the vertically oriented monitor, since the reflected light from the interface between two materials (at least one of which has a refractive index) will be polarized in any case (that's why your Polaroid(TM) sunglasses let you see below the waves...). My physics is too rusty to remember, but I think the vertical monitor in this case needs to be polarized vertically, since the reflected polarized light will be horizontal. No idea where you can buy large sheets of Polaroid(TM) though. IMWBW, though... On 4 Feb 2008, at 11:30, P Hubbard wrote: Hi Andrew, Just like the commercial systems, the glass is the only special piece of kit (which can be bought separately). The LCD monitors are just set up to display either left or right channel. If you ask me, I think these companies are just a rip off! Paul Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 11:24:32 + From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] 3D Glasses - Vuzix HMD by eDimensional To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK P Hubbard wrote: Just an FYI you can build those yourself at a fraction of the price! You just need the special piece of glass, two identical LCD monitors, and an edited X config file. The clever bit of the Omnia system (and the similar one from Planar, which being from the US might be cheaper there...?) is the DVI reflector card that flips the image to be displayed on the screen seen in the half-silvered mirror. Are you implying that an appropriately written Xorg.conf can get the graphics card to do this instead? The prospect is very appealing! Regards, Andrew -- Dr. Andrew Raine, Head of IT, MRC Dunn Human Nutrition Unit, Wellcome Trust/MRC Building, Hills Road, Cambridge, CB2 2XY, UK phone: +44 (0)1223 252830 fax: +44 (0)1223 252835 web: www.mrc-dunn.cam.ac.uk email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give. Learn more. Harry -- Dr Harry Powell, MRC Laboratory of Molecular Biology, MRC Centre, Hills Road, Cambridge, CB2 2QH
Re: [ccp4bb] 3D Glasses - Vuzix HMD by eDimensional
Well, it's not exactly a solution that could be quickly implemented in the short term, but given the rise of open-source crystallography software, I wonder if modules could be written to let the viewer see 3D objects on a 2D display using head tracking. You'd have to nod your head slightly back-and-forth to see the 3D effect, and it could only be used by one viewer per monitor, but at least the hardware required would be only ~$50 or so, and would work equally well on any type of display. Check this out, as a demonstration (where the hardware is rendered by gutting the innards of a $40 'Wiimote.'): http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3-eiid-Uw Anyone want to get it working in coot? Cheers, d.s.
