Re: [ccp4bb] largest protein crystal ever grown?
Dear all, dear John, Thanks for the replies and references! I like the ice cream tub setup. Best wishes, Tobias. On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 10:05 PM, Jrh jrhelliw...@gmail.com wrote: Dear Tobias, There is also this one :- http://dx.doi.org/10.1107/S0021889801007245 In this study we had to use a smaller crystal than the largest ones available of 125mm3. They were a lovely rhombic dodecahedral crystal habit. Nb we only published details of the size of the one used. These crystals were grown by Joseph Gilboa at The Weizmann Institute, who we miss dearly. See the appreciation of Joseph by Felix Frolow and myself at http://dx.doi.org/10.1107/S0021889810006941 Yours sincerely, John Prof John R Helliwell DSc FInstP CPhys FRSC CChem F Soc Biol. Chair School of Chemistry, University of Manchester, Athena Swan Team. http://www.chemistry.manchester.ac.uk/aboutus/athena/index.html On 24 Oct 2013, at 16:33, Tobias Beck tobiasb...@gmail.com wrote: Dear all, I was just wondering if anyone has some information or references about the dimensions of the largest protein crystal ever grown? I am aware that for neutron protein crystallography one usually needs crystals with mm dimensions. I have found some information on crystallization under micro-gravity and how this can enlarge the crystal size. However, I would rather be interested in the dimensions for crystals obtained from a regular lab setup. Thanks, Tobias. -- ___ Dr. Tobias Beck ETH Zurich Laboratory of Organic Chemistry Wolfgang-Pauli-Str. 10, HCI F 322 8093 Zurich, Switzerland phone: +41 44 632 68 65 fax:+41 44 632 14 86 web: http://www.protein.ethz.ch/people/tobias ___ -- ___ Dr. Tobias Beck ETH Zurich Laboratory of Organic Chemistry Wolfgang-Pauli-Str. 10, HCI F 322 8093 Zurich, Switzerland phone: +41 44 632 68 65 fax:+41 44 632 14 86 web: http://www.protein.ethz.ch/people/tobias ___
Re: [ccp4bb] largest protein crystal ever grown?
Hi Derek, That brings back memories. I am pretty certain that is the myoglobin crystal that was already on Benno's shelf at Brookhaven when I went there in 1980 to collect my oxymyoglobin neutron data. It would the metmyoglobin crystal Benno got the early neutron data from. He just kept it on the shelf because there was, of course, no degradation in the beam and a crystal is a pretty stable way to store a protein. Whenever he wanted more data he took it off the shelf and put it back on the beamline. If Benno is reading this bulletin board I am sure he could tell us more. Simon Simon E.V. Phillips Director, Research Complex at Harwell (RCaH) Rutherford Appleton Laboratory Harwell Oxford Didcot Oxon OX11 0FA United Kingdom Email: susan.jo...@rc-harwell.ac.uk Direct email: simon.phill...@rc-harwell.ac.uk Tel: +44 (0)1235 567701 (direct) +44 (0)1235 567700 (sec) +44 (0)7884 436011 (mobile) www: www.rc-harwell.ac.uk -Original Message- From: CCP4 bulletin board [mailto:CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On Behalf Of Derek Logan Sent: 24 October 2013 19:08 To: ccp4bb Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] largest protein crystal ever grown? Hi, Last spring I visited the Protein Crystallography Station at Los Alamos. On a shelf, in a capillary in a serious exhibition-quality glass dome, was a crystal of myoglobin some 50 mm**3, if I remember correctly. I was told it had been made by Benno Schoenborn some decades earlier and had been exposed to most of the neutron sources in the world (radiation damage - forget about it!) Paul Langan or Zoë Fisher can correct me if I've exaggerated the size or age. Anyway, as I already lost the record several times over for having seen the biggest protein crystal ever, I can share with you the surprise and delight of having to centre the crystals using a telescope mounted on a tripod on the other side of the room. Apparently the magnification on the microscope on the diffractometer (visible in this photo, and maybe the giant crystal too? http://www.lanl.gov/_assets/php/flickrImage.php?photo_id=5033219363secret=291f519124) was too high, so any neutron-size crystals would filled the whole field of view even if they were not well-centered. FWIW, my crystals (somewhat optimistically 0.4 mm**3) didn't diffract neutrons even after a 24h exposure :-) Derek Derek Logan tel: +46 46 222 1443 Associate Professor mob: +46 76 8585 707 Dept. of Biochemistry and Structural Biology www.cmps.lu.se Centre for Molecular Protein Science www.maxlab.lu.se/node/307 Lund University, Box 124, 221 00 Lund, Sweden On 24 Oct 2013, at 18:35, Victor Lamzin vic...@embl-hamburg.de wrote: Also following on from John's comment - back to the times of my PhD I was repeatedly growing crystals of bacterial formate dehydrogenase (80 kDa) of a size about 7x1.5x1 mm. I thought that was quite normal and did not even think of making a photo of 'just a protein crystal'. Victor This email and any attachments may contain confidential, copyright and or privileged material, and are for the use of the intended addressee only. If you are not the intended addressee or an authorized recipient of the addressee, please notify us of receipt by returning the e-mail and do not use, copy, retain, distribute or disclose the information in or attached to this email. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the Research Complex at Harwell. There is no guarantee that this email or any attachments are free from viruses and we cannot accept liability for any damage which you may sustain as a result of software viruses which may be transmitted in or with the message. We use an electronic filing system. Please send electronic versions of documents, unless paper is specifically requested. This email may have a protective marking, for an explanation, please see: http://www.mrc.ac.uk/About/informationandstandards/documentmarking/index.htm.
[ccp4bb] השב: Re: [ccp4bb] largest protein crystal ever grown?
Hi, Referring to the Hb crystal that Bill Scott saw in the MRC crystal growing room (by now tho old one I guess), is that the one that was sitting in the largest part of the Pasteur pipette? I recall this one and I keep telling my students about it when they ask about crystal size limits. Cheers, Boaz הודעה מקורית מאת: simon.phill...@rc-harwell.ac.uk תאריך: אל: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK נושא: Re: [ccp4bb] largest protein crystal ever grown? Hi Derek, That brings back memories. I am pretty certain that is the myoglobin crystal that was already on Benno's shelf at Brookhaven when I went there in 1980 to collect my oxymyoglobin neutron data. It would the metmyoglobin crystal Benno got the early neutron data from. He just kept it on the shelf because there was, of course, no degradation in the beam and a crystal is a pretty stable way to store a protein. Whenever he wanted more data he took it off the shelf and put it back on the beamline. If Benno is reading this bulletin board I am sure he could tell us more. Simon Simon E.V. Phillips Director, Research Complex at Harwell (RCaH) Rutherford Appleton Laboratory Harwell Oxford Didcot Oxon OX11 0FA United Kingdom Email: susan.jo...@rc-harwell.ac.uk Direct email: simon.phill...@rc-harwell.ac.uk Tel: 44 (0)1235 567701 (direct) 44 (0)1235 567700 (sec) 44 (0)7884 436011 (mobile) www: www.rc-harwell.ac.uk -Original Message- From: CCP4 bulletin board [mailto:CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On Behalf Of Derek Logan Sent: 24 October 2013 19:08 To: ccp4bb Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] largest protein crystal ever grown? Hi, Last spring I visited the Protein Crystallography Station at Los Alamos. On a shelf, in a capillary in a serious exhibition-quality glass dome, was a crystal of myoglobin some 50 mm**3, if I remember correctly. I was told it had been made by Benno Schoenborn some decades earlier and had been exposed to most of the neutron sources in the world (radiation damage - forget about it!) Paul Langan or Zoë Fisher can correct me if I've exaggerated the size or age. Anyway, as I already lost the record several times over for having seen the biggest protein crystal ever, I can share with you the surprise and delight of having to centre the crystals using a telescope mounted on a tripod on the other side of the room. Apparently the magnification on the microscope on the diffractometer (visible in this photo, and maybe the giant crystal too? http://www.lanl.gov/_assets/php/flickrImage.php?photo_id=5033219363secret=291f519124) was too high, so any neutron-size crystals would filled the whole field of view even if they were not well-centered. FWIW, my crystals (somewhat optimistically 0.4 mm**3) didn't diffract neutrons even after a 24h exposure :-) Derek Derek Logan tel: 46 46 222 1443 Associate Professor mob: 46 76 8585 707 Dept. of Biochemistry and Structural Biology www.cmps.lu.se Centre for Molecular Protein Science www.maxlab.lu.se/node/307 Lund University, Box 124, 221 00 Lund, Sweden On 24 Oct 2013, at 18:35, Victor Lamzin vic...@embl-hamburg.de wrote: Also following on from John's comment - back to the times of my PhD I was repeatedly growing crystals of bacterial formate dehydrogenase (80 kDa) of a size about 7x1.5x1 mm. I thought that was quite normal and did not even think of making a photo of 'just a protein crystal'. Victor This email and any attachments may contain confidential, copyright and or privileged material, and are for the use of the intended addressee only. If you are not the intended addressee or an authorized recipient of the addressee, please notify us of receipt by returning the e-mail and do not use, copy, retain, distribute or disclose the information in or attached to this email. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the Research Complex at Harwell. There is no guarantee that this email or any attachments are free from viruses and we cannot accept liability for any damage which you may sustain as a result of software viruses which may be transmitted in or with the message. We use an electronic filing system. Please send electronic versions of documents, unless paper is specifically requested. This email may have a protective marking, for an explanation, please see: http://www.mrc.ac.uk/About/informationandstandards/documentmarking/index.htm.
Re: [ccp4bb] largest protein crystal ever grown?
Well if we start recalling rumours, I have heard that in UC San Diego in the laboratory of George Feher there was (is) a tetragonal hen egg white lysozyme crystal which weighted between 0.5 - 1.0 kg. It grew suspend on a mountain boots shoelace of the read colour. I have never visited George laboratory, but maybe among the society there are some who can shed some light on that…. FF Dr Felix Frolow Professor of Structural Biology and Biotechnology, Department of Molecular Microbiology and Biotechnology Tel Aviv University 69978, Israel Acta Crystallographica F, co-editor e-mail: mbfro...@post.tau.ac.il Tel: ++972-3640-8723 Fax: ++972-3640-9407 Cellular: 0547 459 608 On Oct 25, 2013, at 12:18 , Boaz Shaanan bshaa...@bgu.ac.il wrote: Hi, Referring to the Hb crystal that Bill Scott saw in the MRC crystal growing room (by now tho old one I guess), is that the one that was sitting in the largest part of the Pasteur pipette? I recall this one and I keep telling my students about it when they ask about crystal size limits. Cheers, Boaz הודעה מקורית מאת: simon.phill...@rc-harwell.ac.uk תאריך: אל: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK נושא: Re: [ccp4bb] largest protein crystal ever grown? Hi Derek, That brings back memories. I am pretty certain that is the myoglobin crystal that was already on Benno's shelf at Brookhaven when I went there in 1980 to collect my oxymyoglobin neutron data. It would the metmyoglobin crystal Benno got the early neutron data from. He just kept it on the shelf because there was, of course, no degradation in the beam and a crystal is a pretty stable way to store a protein. Whenever he wanted more data he took it off the shelf and put it back on the beamline. If Benno is reading this bulletin board I am sure he could tell us more. Simon Simon E.V. Phillips Director, Research Complex at Harwell (RCaH) Rutherford Appleton Laboratory Harwell Oxford Didcot Oxon OX11 0FA United Kingdom Email: susan.jo...@rc-harwell.ac.uk Direct email: simon.phill...@rc-harwell.ac.uk Tel: +44 (0)1235 567701 (direct) +44 (0)1235 567700 (sec) +44 (0)7884 436011 (mobile) www: www.rc-harwell.ac.uk -Original Message- From: CCP4 bulletin board [mailto:CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On Behalf Of Derek Logan Sent: 24 October 2013 19:08 To: ccp4bb Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] largest protein crystal ever grown? Hi, Last spring I visited the Protein Crystallography Station at Los Alamos. On a shelf, in a capillary in a serious exhibition-quality glass dome, was a crystal of myoglobin some 50 mm**3, if I remember correctly. I was told it had been made by Benno Schoenborn some decades earlier and had been exposed to most of the neutron sources in the world (radiation damage - forget about it!) Paul Langan or Zoë Fisher can correct me if I've exaggerated the size or age. Anyway, as I already lost the record several times over for having seen the biggest protein crystal ever, I can share with you the surprise and delight of having to centre the crystals using a telescope mounted on a tripod on the other side of the room. Apparently the magnification on the microscope on the diffractometer (visible in this photo, and maybe the giant crystal too? http://www.lanl.gov/_assets/php/flickrImage.php?photo_id=5033219363secret=291f519124) was too high, so any neutron-size crystals would filled the whole field of view even if they were not well-centered. FWIW, my crystals (somewhat optimistically 0.4 mm**3) didn't diffract neutrons even after a 24h exposure :-) Derek Derek Logan tel: +46 46 222 1443 Associate Professor mob: +46 76 8585 707 Dept. of Biochemistry and Structural Biology www.cmps.lu.se Centre for Molecular Protein Science www.maxlab.lu.se/node/307 Lund University, Box 124, 221 00 Lund, Sweden On 24 Oct 2013, at 18:35, Victor Lamzin vic...@embl-hamburg.de wrote: Also following on from John's comment - back to the times of my PhD I was repeatedly growing crystals of bacterial formate dehydrogenase (80 kDa) of a size about 7x1.5x1 mm. I thought that was quite normal and did not even think of making a photo of 'just a protein crystal'. Victor This email and any attachments may contain confidential, copyright and or privileged material, and are for the use of the intended addressee only. If you are not the intended addressee or an authorized recipient of the addressee, please notify us of receipt by returning the e-mail and do not use, copy, retain, distribute or disclose the information in or attached to this email. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the Research Complex at Harwell
Re: [ccp4bb] largest protein crystal ever grown?
Hi Felix, What was the mosaicity of this crystal? The absorption correction must have been challenging too... Derek On 25 Oct 2013, at 13:23, Felix Frolow mbfro...@post.tau.ac.ilmailto:mbfro...@post.tau.ac.il wrote: Well if we start recalling rumours, I have heard that in UC San Diego in the laboratory of George Feher there was (is) a tetragonal hen egg white lysozyme crystal which weighted between 0.5 - 1.0 kg. It grew suspend on a mountain boots shoelace of the read colour. I have never visited George laboratory, but maybe among the society there are some who can shed some light on that…. FF Dr Felix Frolow Professor of Structural Biology and Biotechnology, Department of Molecular Microbiology and Biotechnology Tel Aviv University 69978, Israel Acta Crystallographica F, co-editor e-mail: mbfro...@post.tau.ac.ilmailto:mbfro...@post.tau.ac.il Tel: ++972-3640-8723 Fax: ++972-3640-9407 Cellular: 0547 459 608 On Oct 25, 2013, at 12:18 , Boaz Shaanan bshaa...@bgu.ac.ilmailto:bshaa...@bgu.ac.il wrote: Hi, Referring to the Hb crystal that Bill Scott saw in the MRC crystal growing room (by now tho old one I guess), is that the one that was sitting in the largest part of the Pasteur pipette? I recall this one and I keep telling my students about it when they ask about crystal size limits. Cheers, Boaz הודעה מקורית מאת: simon.phill...@rc-harwell.ac.ukmailto:simon.phill...@rc-harwell.ac.uk תאריך: אל: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UKmailto:CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK נושא: Re: [ccp4bb] largest protein crystal ever grown? Hi Derek, That brings back memories. I am pretty certain that is the myoglobin crystal that was already on Benno's shelf at Brookhaven when I went there in 1980 to collect my oxymyoglobin neutron data. It would the metmyoglobin crystal Benno got the early neutron data from. He just kept it on the shelf because there was, of course, no degradation in the beam and a crystal is a pretty stable way to store a protein. Whenever he wanted more data he took it off the shelf and put it back on the beamline. If Benno is reading this bulletin board I am sure he could tell us more. Simon Simon E.V. Phillips Director, Research Complex at Harwell (RCaH) Rutherford Appleton Laboratory Harwell Oxford Didcot Oxon OX11 0FA United Kingdom Email: susan.jo...@rc-harwell.ac.ukmailto:susan.jo...@rc-harwell.ac.uk Direct email: simon.phill...@rc-harwell.ac.ukmailto:simon.phill...@rc-harwell.ac.uk Tel: +44 (0)1235 567701 (direct) +44 (0)1235 567700 (sec) +44 (0)7884 436011 (mobile) www: www.rc-harwell.ac.ukhttp://www.rc-harwell.ac.uk/ -Original Message- From: CCP4 bulletin board [mailto:CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On Behalf Of Derek Logan Sent: 24 October 2013 19:08 To: ccp4bb Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] largest protein crystal ever grown? Hi, Last spring I visited the Protein Crystallography Station at Los Alamos. On a shelf, in a capillary in a serious exhibition-quality glass dome, was a crystal of myoglobin some 50 mm**3, if I remember correctly. I was told it had been made by Benno Schoenborn some decades earlier and had been exposed to most of the neutron sources in the world (radiation damage - forget about it!) Paul Langan or Zoë Fisher can correct me if I've exaggerated the size or age. Anyway, as I already lost the record several times over for having seen the biggest protein crystal ever, I can share with you the surprise and delight of having to centre the crystals using a telescope mounted on a tripod on the other side of the room. Apparently the magnification on the microscope on the diffractometer (visible in this photo, and maybe the giant crystal too? http://www.lanl.gov/_assets/php/flickrImage.php?photo_id=5033219363secret=291f519124) was too high, so any neutron-size crystals would filled the whole field of view even if they were not well-centered. FWIW, my crystals (somewhat optimistically 0.4 mm**3) didn't diffract neutrons even after a 24h exposure :-) Derek Derek Logan tel: +46 46 222 1443 Associate Professor mob: +46 76 8585 707 Dept. of Biochemistry and Structural Biology www.cmps.lu.sehttp://www.cmps.lu.se/ Centre for Molecular Protein Science www.maxlab.lu.se/node/307http://www.maxlab.lu.se/node/307 Lund University, Box 124, 221 00 Lund, Sweden On 24 Oct 2013, at 18:35, Victor Lamzin vic...@embl-hamburg.demailto:vic...@embl-hamburg.de wrote: Also following on from John's comment - back to the times of my PhD I was repeatedly growing crystals of bacterial formate dehydrogenase (80 kDa) of a size about 7x1.5x1 mm. I thought that was quite normal and did not even think of making a photo of 'just a protein crystal'. Victor This email and any attachments may contain confidential, copyright and or privileged material, and are for the use
Re: [ccp4bb] largest protein crystal ever grown?
I guess that this crystal was never tested with any X-ray source. After all George is a physicist who study photosynthesis processes by spectroscopic methods. However (unrelated but connected) I have collected once a data set from a see urchin needle which was 1 cm long, about 3 mm across (protein mass was dissolved), it was a single crystal despite a complicated and beautiful architecture, and mosaicity was about 0.5 deg on a Rigaku AFC5 diffractometer (mounted on a rotating anode with Ni filter. So I would not bet on the large crystal - big mosaicity formula. FF This remarkable hollow Dr Felix Frolow Professor of Structural Biology and Biotechnology, Department of Molecular Microbiology and Biotechnology Tel Aviv University 69978, Israel Acta Crystallographica F, co-editor e-mail: mbfro...@post.tau.ac.il Tel: ++972-3640-8723 Fax: ++972-3640-9407 Cellular: 0547 459 608 On Oct 25, 2013, at 16:54 , Derek Logan derek.lo...@biochemistry.lu.se wrote: Hi Felix, What was the mosaicity of this crystal? The absorption correction must have been challenging too... Derek On 25 Oct 2013, at 13:23, Felix Frolow mbfro...@post.tau.ac.il wrote: Well if we start recalling rumours, I have heard that in UC San Diego in the laboratory of George Feher there was (is) a tetragonal hen egg white lysozyme crystal which weighted between 0.5 - 1.0 kg. It grew suspend on a mountain boots shoelace of the read colour. I have never visited George laboratory, but maybe among the society there are some who can shed some light on that…. FF Dr Felix Frolow Professor of Structural Biology and Biotechnology, Department of Molecular Microbiology and Biotechnology Tel Aviv University 69978, Israel Acta Crystallographica F, co-editor e-mail: mbfro...@post.tau.ac.il Tel: ++972-3640-8723 Fax: ++972-3640-9407 Cellular: 0547 459 608 On Oct 25, 2013, at 12:18 , Boaz Shaanan bshaa...@bgu.ac.il wrote: Hi, Referring to the Hb crystal that Bill Scott saw in the MRC crystal growing room (by now tho old one I guess), is that the one that was sitting in the largest part of the Pasteur pipette? I recall this one and I keep telling my students about it when they ask about crystal size limits. Cheers, Boaz הודעה מקורית מאת: simon.phill...@rc-harwell.ac.uk תאריך: אל: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK נושא: Re: [ccp4bb] largest protein crystal ever grown? Hi Derek, That brings back memories. I am pretty certain that is the myoglobin crystal that was already on Benno's shelf at Brookhaven when I went there in 1980 to collect my oxymyoglobin neutron data. It would the metmyoglobin crystal Benno got the early neutron data from. He just kept it on the shelf because there was, of course, no degradation in the beam and a crystal is a pretty stable way to store a protein. Whenever he wanted more data he took it off the shelf and put it back on the beamline. If Benno is reading this bulletin board I am sure he could tell us more. Simon Simon E.V. Phillips Director, Research Complex at Harwell (RCaH) Rutherford Appleton Laboratory Harwell Oxford Didcot Oxon OX11 0FA United Kingdom Email: susan.jo...@rc-harwell.ac.uk Direct email: simon.phill...@rc-harwell.ac.uk Tel: +44 (0)1235 567701 (direct) +44 (0)1235 567700 (sec) +44 (0)7884 436011 (mobile) www: www.rc-harwell.ac.uk -Original Message- From: CCP4 bulletin board [mailto:CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On Behalf Of Derek Logan Sent: 24 October 2013 19:08 To: ccp4bb Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] largest protein crystal ever grown? Hi, Last spring I visited the Protein Crystallography Station at Los Alamos. On a shelf, in a capillary in a serious exhibition-quality glass dome, was a crystal of myoglobin some 50 mm**3, if I remember correctly. I was told it had been made by Benno Schoenborn some decades earlier and had been exposed to most of the neutron sources in the world (radiation damage - forget about it!) Paul Langan or Zoë Fisher can correct me if I've exaggerated the size or age. Anyway, as I already lost the record several times over for having seen the biggest protein crystal ever, I can share with you the surprise and delight of having to centre the crystals using a telescope mounted on a tripod on the other side of the room. Apparently the magnification on the microscope on the diffractometer (visible in this photo, and maybe the giant crystal too? http://www.lanl.gov/_assets/php/flickrImage.php?photo_id=5033219363secret=291f519124) was too high, so any neutron-size crystals would filled the whole field of view even if they were not well-centered. FWIW, my crystals (somewhat optimistically 0.4 mm**3) didn't diffract neutrons even after a 24h exposure :-) Derek Derek Logan tel: +46 46 222
Re: [ccp4bb] largest protein crystal ever grown?
Felix, Although I have passed through George's lab at UCSD several times, I have not seen that crystal, but it should be pointed out that George's interests did extend beyond photosynthesis. Some of us older folks remember George's contributions to protein crystal growth, both theoretical and experimental (see Z. Kam, H.B. Shore, and G. Feher, J. Mol. Biol. 123, 539, 1978 or his contribution in Methods in Enzymology, volume 114). So it would not be surprising to find a humungous crystal in his lab; he was interested in the mechanism(s) of crystal growth cessation, which may have led his group to see how big a crystal they could grow. Unfortunately, parts of his lab were often dark when I was visiting due to his photosynthesis experiments. Perhaps Jim Allen or former people from the Kraut and Xuong labs would know. Cheers, Michael R. Michael Garavito, Ph.D. Professor of Biochemistry Molecular Biology 603 Wilson Rd., Rm. 513 Michigan State University East Lansing, MI 48824-1319 Office: (517) 355-9724 Lab: (517) 353-9125 FAX: (517) 353-9334Email: rmgarav...@gmail.com On Oct 25, 2013, at 11:13 AM, Felix Frolow wrote: I guess that this crystal was never tested with any X-ray source. After all George is a physicist who study photosynthesis processes by spectroscopic methods. However (unrelated but connected) I have collected once a data set from a see urchin needle which was 1 cm long, about 3 mm across (protein mass was dissolved), it was a single crystal despite a complicated and beautiful architecture, and mosaicity was about 0.5 deg on a Rigaku AFC5 diffractometer (mounted on a rotating anode with Ni filter. So I would not bet on the large crystal - big mosaicity formula. FF This remarkable hollow Dr Felix Frolow Professor of Structural Biology and Biotechnology, Department of Molecular Microbiology and Biotechnology Tel Aviv University 69978, Israel Acta Crystallographica F, co-editor e-mail: mbfro...@post.tau.ac.il Tel: ++972-3640-8723 Fax: ++972-3640-9407 Cellular: 0547 459 608 On Oct 25, 2013, at 16:54 , Derek Logan derek.lo...@biochemistry.lu.se wrote: Hi Felix, What was the mosaicity of this crystal? The absorption correction must have been challenging too... Derek On 25 Oct 2013, at 13:23, Felix Frolow mbfro...@post.tau.ac.il wrote: Well if we start recalling rumours, I have heard that in UC San Diego in the laboratory of George Feher there was (is) a tetragonal hen egg white lysozyme crystal which weighted between 0.5 - 1.0 kg. It grew suspend on a mountain boots shoelace of the read colour. I have never visited George laboratory, but maybe among the society there are some who can shed some light on that…. FF Dr Felix Frolow Professor of Structural Biology and Biotechnology, Department of Molecular Microbiology and Biotechnology Tel Aviv University 69978, Israel Acta Crystallographica F, co-editor e-mail: mbfro...@post.tau.ac.il Tel: ++972-3640-8723 Fax: ++972-3640-9407 Cellular: 0547 459 608 On Oct 25, 2013, at 12:18 , Boaz Shaanan bshaa...@bgu.ac.il wrote: Hi, Referring to the Hb crystal that Bill Scott saw in the MRC crystal growing room (by now tho old one I guess), is that the one that was sitting in the largest part of the Pasteur pipette? I recall this one and I keep telling my students about it when they ask about crystal size limits. Cheers, Boaz הודעה מקורית מאת: simon.phill...@rc-harwell.ac.uk תאריך: אל: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK נושא: Re: [ccp4bb] largest protein crystal ever grown? Hi Derek, That brings back memories. I am pretty certain that is the myoglobin crystal that was already on Benno's shelf at Brookhaven when I went there in 1980 to collect my oxymyoglobin neutron data. It would the metmyoglobin crystal Benno got the early neutron data from. He just kept it on the shelf because there was, of course, no degradation in the beam and a crystal is a pretty stable way to store a protein. Whenever he wanted more data he took it off the shelf and put it back on the beamline. If Benno is reading this bulletin board I am sure he could tell us more. Simon Simon E.V. Phillips Director, Research Complex at Harwell (RCaH) Rutherford Appleton Laboratory Harwell Oxford Didcot Oxon OX11 0FA United Kingdom Email: susan.jo...@rc-harwell.ac.uk Direct email: simon.phill...@rc-harwell.ac.uk Tel: +44 (0)1235 567701 (direct) +44 (0)1235 567700 (sec) +44 (0)7884 436011 (mobile) www: www.rc-harwell.ac.uk -Original Message- From: CCP4 bulletin board [mailto:CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On Behalf Of Derek Logan Sent: 24 October 2013 19:08 To: ccp4bb Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] largest protein crystal ever grown? Hi
Re: [ccp4bb] largest protein crystal ever grown?
crystal which weighted between 0.5 - 1.0 kg. It grew suspend on a mountain boots shoelace of the read colour. Sounds like a crystallographic legend, beautiful but never achievable… Happy Halloween! Alexander Aleshin Sanford-Burnham Medical Research Institute La Jolla, California On Oct 25, 2013, at 4:23 AM, Felix Frolow wrote: Well if we start recalling rumours, I have heard that in UC San Diego in the laboratory of George Feher there was (is) a tetragonal hen egg white lysozyme crystal which weighted between 0.5 - 1.0 kg. It grew suspend on a mountain boots shoelace of the read colour. I have never visited George laboratory, but maybe among the society there are some who can shed some light on that…. FF Dr Felix Frolow Professor of Structural Biology and Biotechnology, Department of Molecular Microbiology and Biotechnology Tel Aviv University 69978, Israel Acta Crystallographica F, co-editor e-mail: mbfro...@post.tau.ac.ilmailto:mbfro...@post.tau.ac.il Tel: ++972-3640-8723 Fax: ++972-3640-9407 Cellular: 0547 459 608 On Oct 25, 2013, at 12:18 , Boaz Shaanan bshaa...@bgu.ac.ilmailto:bshaa...@bgu.ac.il wrote: Hi, Referring to the Hb crystal that Bill Scott saw in the MRC crystal growing room (by now tho old one I guess), is that the one that was sitting in the largest part of the Pasteur pipette? I recall this one and I keep telling my students about it when they ask about crystal size limits. Cheers, Boaz הודעה מקורית מאת: simon.phill...@rc-harwell.ac.ukmailto:simon.phill...@rc-harwell.ac.uk תאריך: אל: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UKmailto:CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK נושא: Re: [ccp4bb] largest protein crystal ever grown? Hi Derek, That brings back memories. I am pretty certain that is the myoglobin crystal that was already on Benno's shelf at Brookhaven when I went there in 1980 to collect my oxymyoglobin neutron data. It would the metmyoglobin crystal Benno got the early neutron data from. He just kept it on the shelf because there was, of course, no degradation in the beam and a crystal is a pretty stable way to store a protein. Whenever he wanted more data he took it off the shelf and put it back on the beamline. If Benno is reading this bulletin board I am sure he could tell us more. Simon Simon E.V. Phillips Director, Research Complex at Harwell (RCaH) Rutherford Appleton Laboratory Harwell Oxford Didcot Oxon OX11 0FA United Kingdom Email: susan.jo...@rc-harwell.ac.ukmailto:susan.jo...@rc-harwell.ac.uk Direct email: simon.phill...@rc-harwell.ac.ukmailto:simon.phill...@rc-harwell.ac.uk Tel: +44 (0)1235 567701 (direct) +44 (0)1235 567700 (sec) +44 (0)7884 436011 (mobile) www: www.rc-harwell.ac.ukhttp://www.rc-harwell.ac.uk/ -Original Message- From: CCP4 bulletin board [mailto:CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On Behalf Of Derek Logan Sent: 24 October 2013 19:08 To: ccp4bb Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] largest protein crystal ever grown? Hi, Last spring I visited the Protein Crystallography Station at Los Alamos. On a shelf, in a capillary in a serious exhibition-quality glass dome, was a crystal of myoglobin some 50 mm**3, if I remember correctly. I was told it had been made by Benno Schoenborn some decades earlier and had been exposed to most of the neutron sources in the world (radiation damage - forget about it!) Paul Langan or Zoë Fisher can correct me if I've exaggerated the size or age. Anyway, as I already lost the record several times over for having seen the biggest protein crystal ever, I can share with you the surprise and delight of having to centre the crystals using a telescope mounted on a tripod on the other side of the room. Apparently the magnification on the microscope on the diffractometer (visible in this photo, and maybe the giant crystal too? http://www.lanl.gov/_assets/php/flickrImage.php?photo_id=5033219363secret=291f519124) was too high, so any neutron-size crystals would filled the whole field of view even if they were not well-centered. FWIW, my crystals (somewhat optimistically 0.4 mm**3) didn't diffract neutrons even after a 24h exposure :-) Derek Derek Logan tel: +46 46 222 1443 Associate Professor mob: +46 76 8585 707 Dept. of Biochemistry and Structural Biology www.cmps.lu.sehttp://www.cmps.lu.se/ Centre for Molecular Protein Science www.maxlab.lu.se/node/307http://www.maxlab.lu.se/node/307 Lund University, Box 124, 221 00 Lund, Sweden On 24 Oct 2013, at 18:35, Victor Lamzin vic...@embl-hamburg.demailto:vic...@embl-hamburg.de wrote: Also following on from John's comment - back to the times of my PhD I was repeatedly growing crystals of bacterial formate dehydrogenase (80 kDa) of a size about 7x1.5x1 mm. I thought that was quite normal and did not even think of making a photo of 'just a protein crystal'. Victor
[ccp4bb] largest protein crystal ever grown?
Dear all, I was just wondering if anyone has some information or references about the dimensions of the largest protein crystal ever grown? I am aware that for neutron protein crystallography one usually needs crystals with mm dimensions. I have found some information on crystallization under micro-gravity and how this can enlarge the crystal size. However, I would rather be interested in the dimensions for crystals obtained from a regular lab setup. Thanks, Tobias. -- ___ Dr. Tobias Beck ETH Zurich Laboratory of Organic Chemistry Wolfgang-Pauli-Str. 10, HCI F 322 8093 Zurich, Switzerland phone: +41 44 632 68 65 fax:+41 44 632 14 86 web: http://www.protein.ethz.ch/people/tobias ___
Re: [ccp4bb] largest protein crystal ever grown?
Very recently (last few months), 3x1x1mm monsters for neutrons. I think J. Crystal Growth. On 24/10/2013 16:33, Tobias Beck wrote: Dear all, I was just wondering if anyone has some information or references about the dimensions of the largest protein crystal ever grown? I am aware that for neutron protein crystallography one usually needs crystals with mm dimensions. I have found some information on crystallization under micro-gravity and how this can enlarge the crystal size. However, I would rather be interested in the dimensions for crystals obtained from a regular lab setup. Thanks, Tobias. -- ___ Dr. Tobias Beck ETH Zurich Laboratory of Organic Chemistry Wolfgang-Pauli-Str. 10, HCI F 322 8093 Zurich, Switzerland phone: +41 44 632 68 65 fax:+41 44 632 14 86 web: http://www.protein.ethz.ch/people/tobias ___
Re: [ccp4bb] largest protein crystal ever grown?
I remember seeing an approx (5mm)^3 haemoglobin crystal in the MRC LMB crystal growing room, and the nucleosome crystals there were almost as big in their longest dimension. Bill On Oct 24, 2013, at 8:33 AM, Tobias Beck tobiasb...@gmail.com wrote: Dear all, I was just wondering if anyone has some information or references about the dimensions of the largest protein crystal ever grown? I am aware that for neutron protein crystallography one usually needs crystals with mm dimensions. I have found some information on crystallization under micro-gravity and how this can enlarge the crystal size. However, I would rather be interested in the dimensions for crystals obtained from a regular lab setup. Thanks, Tobias. -- ___ Dr. Tobias Beck ETH Zurich Laboratory of Organic Chemistry Wolfgang-Pauli-Str. 10, HCI F 322 8093 Zurich, Switzerland phone: +41 44 632 68 65 fax:+41 44 632 14 86 web: http://www.protein.ethz.ch/people/tobias ___
Re: [ccp4bb] largest protein crystal ever grown?
I once grew an oxymyoglobin crystal 1 cm long for neutron diffraction at Brookhaven. I was very proud of it, but when I got to Brookhaven I was told it was too big for the beam (!) so I had to use a much smaller one of only 8 mm**3 (Nature 292:81-82 (1981). I still have a few left over that look like 5-7 mm long (I just held a ruler up to the tube which is still on my office shelf) Simon E.V. Phillips Director, Research Complex at Harwell (RCaH) Rutherford Appleton Laboratory Harwell Oxford Didcot Oxon OX11 0FA United Kingdom Email: susan.jo...@rc-harwell.ac.ukmailto:susan.jo...@rc-harwell.ac.uk Direct email: simon.phill...@rc-harwell.ac.ukmailto:simon.phill...@rc-harwell.ac.uk Tel: +44 (0)1235 567701 (direct) +44 (0)1235 567700 (sec) +44 (0)7884 436011 (mobile) www: www.rc-harwell.ac.ukhttp://www.rc-harwell.ac.uk/ From: CCP4 bulletin board [mailto:CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On Behalf Of Tobias Beck Sent: 24 October 2013 16:34 To: ccp4bb Subject: [ccp4bb] largest protein crystal ever grown? Dear all, I was just wondering if anyone has some information or references about the dimensions of the largest protein crystal ever grown? I am aware that for neutron protein crystallography one usually needs crystals with mm dimensions. I have found some information on crystallization under micro-gravity and how this can enlarge the crystal size. However, I would rather be interested in the dimensions for crystals obtained from a regular lab setup. Thanks, Tobias. -- ___ Dr. Tobias Beck ETH Zurich Laboratory of Organic Chemistry Wolfgang-Pauli-Str. 10, HCI F 322 8093 Zurich, Switzerland phone: +41 44 632 68 65 fax:+41 44 632 14 86 web: http://www.protein.ethz.ch/people/tobias ___ This email and any attachments may contain confidential, copyright and or privileged material, and are for the use of the intended addressee only. If you are not the intended addressee or an authorized recipient of the addressee, please notify us of receipt by returning the e-mail and do not use, copy, retain, distribute or disclose the information in or attached to this email. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the Research Complex at Harwell. There is no guarantee that this email or any attachments are free from viruses and we cannot accept liability for any damage which you may sustain as a result of software viruses which may be transmitted in or with the message. We use an electronic filing system. Please send electronic versions of documents, unless paper is specifically requested. This email may have a protective marking, for an explanation, please see: http://www.mrc.ac.uk/About/informationandstandards/documentmarking/index.htm.
Re: [ccp4bb] largest protein crystal ever grown?
Dear Tobias, Take a look at http://dx.doi.org/10.1107/S0108767389012912 The ribonuclease crystal I used to measure the speed of sound, using laser generated ultrasound, was of volume 129 mm3 ie 7.7x6.2x2.7 mm . David Moss of Birkbeck College provided it. Best wishes, John Prof John R Helliwell DSc FInstP CPhys FRSC CChem F Soc Biol. Chair School of Chemistry, University of Manchester, Athena Swan Team. http://www.chemistry.manchester.ac.uk/aboutus/athena/index.html On 24 Oct 2013, at 16:33, Tobias Beck tobiasb...@gmail.com wrote: Dear all, I was just wondering if anyone has some information or references about the dimensions of the largest protein crystal ever grown? I am aware that for neutron protein crystallography one usually needs crystals with mm dimensions. I have found some information on crystallization under micro-gravity and how this can enlarge the crystal size. However, I would rather be interested in the dimensions for crystals obtained from a regular lab setup. Thanks, Tobias. -- ___ Dr. Tobias Beck ETH Zurich Laboratory of Organic Chemistry Wolfgang-Pauli-Str. 10, HCI F 322 8093 Zurich, Switzerland phone: +41 44 632 68 65 fax:+41 44 632 14 86 web: http://www.protein.ethz.ch/people/tobias ___
Re: [ccp4bb] largest protein crystal ever grown?
Following on from John's comment, when I did my PhD at Birkbeck in the early 2000s, one of David Moss's other PhD students (John Bond) grew some gigantic (1cm edges) crystals of things like HEWL Myoglobin, which he then (somewhat perversely) crushed to load into capillaries for powder diffraction analysis. IIRC, John fashioned a vapour diffusion setup from a 2l Ice cream tub, and used a watch glass to support the sitting drop, which was centimetres across. Truly bucket crystallography. Regards, Dave David C. Briggs PhD http://about.me/david_briggs On 24 October 2013 17:08, Jrh jrhelliw...@gmail.com wrote: Dear Tobias, Take a look at http://dx.doi.org/10.1107/S0108767389012912 The ribonuclease crystal I used to measure the speed of sound, using laser generated ultrasound, was of volume 129 mm3 ie 7.7x6.2x2.7 mm . David Moss of Birkbeck College provided it. Best wishes, John Prof John R Helliwell DSc FInstP CPhys FRSC CChem F Soc Biol. Chair School of Chemistry, University of Manchester, Athena Swan Team. http://www.chemistry.manchester.ac.uk/aboutus/athena/index.html On 24 Oct 2013, at 16:33, Tobias Beck tobiasb...@gmail.com wrote: Dear all, I was just wondering if anyone has some information or references about the dimensions of the largest protein crystal ever grown? I am aware that for neutron protein crystallography one usually needs crystals with mm dimensions. I have found some information on crystallization under micro-gravity and how this can enlarge the crystal size. However, I would rather be interested in the dimensions for crystals obtained from a regular lab setup. Thanks, Tobias. -- ___ Dr. Tobias Beck ETH Zurich Laboratory of Organic Chemistry Wolfgang-Pauli-Str. 10, HCI F 322 8093 Zurich, Switzerland phone: +41 44 632 68 65 fax:+41 44 632 14 86 web: http://www.protein.ethz.ch/people/tobias ___
Re: [ccp4bb] largest protein crystal ever grown?
Also following on from John's comment - back to the times of my PhD I was repeatedly growing crystals of bacterial formate dehydrogenase (80 kDa) of a size about 7x1.5x1 mm. I thought that was quite normal and did not even think of making a photo of 'just a protein crystal'. Victor
Re: [ccp4bb] largest protein crystal ever grown?
Hi, Last spring I visited the Protein Crystallography Station at Los Alamos. On a shelf, in a capillary in a serious exhibition-quality glass dome, was a crystal of myoglobin some 50 mm**3, if I remember correctly. I was told it had been made by Benno Schoenborn some decades earlier and had been exposed to most of the neutron sources in the world (radiation damage - forget about it!) Paul Langan or Zoë Fisher can correct me if I've exaggerated the size or age. Anyway, as I already lost the record several times over for having seen the biggest protein crystal ever, I can share with you the surprise and delight of having to centre the crystals using a telescope mounted on a tripod on the other side of the room. Apparently the magnification on the microscope on the diffractometer (visible in this photo, and maybe the giant crystal too? http://www.lanl.gov/_assets/php/flickrImage.php?photo_id=5033219363secret=291f519124) was too high, so any neutron-size crystals would filled the whole field of view even if they were not well-centered. FWIW, my crystals (somewhat optimistically 0.4 mm**3) didn't diffract neutrons even after a 24h exposure :-) Derek Derek Logan tel: +46 46 222 1443 Associate Professor mob: +46 76 8585 707 Dept. of Biochemistry and Structural Biology www.cmps.lu.se Centre for Molecular Protein Science www.maxlab.lu.se/node/307 Lund University, Box 124, 221 00 Lund, Sweden On 24 Oct 2013, at 18:35, Victor Lamzin vic...@embl-hamburg.de wrote: Also following on from John's comment - back to the times of my PhD I was repeatedly growing crystals of bacterial formate dehydrogenase (80 kDa) of a size about 7x1.5x1 mm. I thought that was quite normal and did not even think of making a photo of 'just a protein crystal'. Victor
Re: [ccp4bb] largest protein crystal ever grown?
Dear Tobias, There is also this one :- http://dx.doi.org/10.1107/S0021889801007245 In this study we had to use a smaller crystal than the largest ones available of 125mm3. They were a lovely rhombic dodecahedral crystal habit. Nb we only published details of the size of the one used. These crystals were grown by Joseph Gilboa at The Weizmann Institute, who we miss dearly. See the appreciation of Joseph by Felix Frolow and myself at http://dx.doi.org/10.1107/S0021889810006941 Yours sincerely, John Prof John R Helliwell DSc FInstP CPhys FRSC CChem F Soc Biol. Chair School of Chemistry, University of Manchester, Athena Swan Team. http://www.chemistry.manchester.ac.uk/aboutus/athena/index.html On 24 Oct 2013, at 16:33, Tobias Beck tobiasb...@gmail.com wrote: Dear all, I was just wondering if anyone has some information or references about the dimensions of the largest protein crystal ever grown? I am aware that for neutron protein crystallography one usually needs crystals with mm dimensions. I have found some information on crystallization under micro-gravity and how this can enlarge the crystal size. However, I would rather be interested in the dimensions for crystals obtained from a regular lab setup. Thanks, Tobias. -- ___ Dr. Tobias Beck ETH Zurich Laboratory of Organic Chemistry Wolfgang-Pauli-Str. 10, HCI F 322 8093 Zurich, Switzerland phone: +41 44 632 68 65 fax:+41 44 632 14 86 web: http://www.protein.ethz.ch/people/tobias ___
