Re: [ccp4bb] Problems with auto-indexing

2010-11-29 Thread VAN RAAIJ , MARK JOHAN
Dear Chen, 

It looks like you have a unit cell with two relatively short axes and one long 
one - and some disorder. I have experienced a few examples of this with virus 
fibre proteins (adenovirus fibre and T4 short tail fibre). For the short tail 
fibre we also obtained images in which some lines of spots showed nice 
separation but others less so. 
You should try and mount the crystals with the long axis roughly parallel to 
the rotation axis to avoid overlaps. If you screen several (or many) crystals, 
you may find one with less disorder. In any case, collect complete datasets of 
the best ones and try to solve the structure, you may get lucky like we did. 

Greetings, 

Mark 

Quoting chen c:

 I attached two diffraction images of my crystal, of which one seems normal
 as protein crystal usually do, while the other one looks very strange ,with
 very continuous lines on the image.

 In fact, of the 180 crystal images diffracted by my crystal, there is a
 tendency between those two.

 I had thought that my crystal is a combination of many two-dimensional
 crystals, between wich there are translational or rotational translocations,
 namely resulting in a lack of translational symmetry in the third axes. As a
 result of this, when I tried to index them using HKL2000, one of the cell
 parameter is merely several angstroms.

 However, of the several data sets from different crystals, one data set is
 sucessfully indexed by the assistant professor of my laboratory and
 currently submitted to the operation of Molucular Replacement.

 This confused me a lot. Is what I thought wrong? Or is the very crystal that
 was indexed a special one?

 Thanks all

 chen


Mark J van Raaij
Laboratorio M-4
Dpto de Estructura de Macromoléculas
Centro Nacional de Biotecnología - CSIC
c/Darwin 3, Campus Cantoblanco
28049 Madrid
tel. 91 585 4616
email: mjvanra...@cnb.csic.es 

Re: [ccp4bb] Problems with auto-indexing

2010-11-29 Thread Harry Powell
Hi

The absence of clearly separate lunes on the first image indicates that the 
mosaic spread is rather high. If you increase the intensity threshold in spot 
finding you may be able to pick out spots belonging to a single lattice. If you 
increase the intensity threshold in autoindexing you may also be able to do 
this. My understanding is that HKL will let you do either or both, but of 
course I'd prefer you to do it in Mosflm ;-)

Looking at the higher resolution spots in the top left of the first image, it 
looks like you have three major crystals (at least) contributing to the 
diffraction - some of the spots are split into three close components - you may 
need to tune the spot finding parameters to either include all three components 
as one spot in each case, or perhaps just pick the strongest component. Because 
the spots are spread radially from the beam centre, I'd guess that the unit 
cell edges of the three components in that direction are a bit different.

The second image indicates that you have a long axis almost aligned with the 
vertical (~80º to the backstop shadow). The streaking together often happens if 
you've only got a few unit cells along that axis- actually not that unusual. 
Again, if you tune your spot-finding parameters carefully (small spot size, 
small separation between spots) you may be able to pick out individual spots 
and index successfully.

I'd ask your assistant professor what he/she did to index successfully - he/she 
seems to know what he/she's doing!


On 29 Nov 2010, at 17:14, chen c wrote:

 I attached two diffraction images of my crystal, of which one seems normal as 
 protein crystal usually do, while the other one looks very strange ,with very 
 continuous lines on the image. 
 
 In fact, of the 180 crystal images diffracted by my crystal, there is a 
 tendency between those two.
 
 I had thought that my crystal is a combination of many two-dimensional 
 crystals, between wich there are translational or rotational translocations, 
 namely resulting in a lack of translational symmetry in the third axes. As a 
 result of this, when I tried to index them using HKL2000, one of the cell 
 parameter is merely several angstroms.
 
 However, of the several data sets from different crystals, one data set is 
 sucessfully indexed by the assistant professor of my laboratory and currently 
 submitted to the operation of Molucular Replacement.
 
 This confused me a lot. Is what I thought wrong? Or is the very crystal that 
 was indexed a special one?
 
 Thanks all
 
 chen
 normal.jpgmore typical-1.jpg

Harry
--
Dr Harry Powell, MRC Laboratory of Molecular Biology, MRC Centre, Hills Road, 
Cambridge, CB2 0QH