Re: would like to find blue dg et head looking terminal to go with small ecli...

On 9/23/2015 3:58 AM, couryho...@aol.com wrote: > Yes host was having hickups it seems. > > Take a look at the neat logic trainer by IBM at link below, > > Wish I had more info on this IBM tube type digital logic trainer > kit. comes in a wonderful fitted case with

Re: Structured Fortran - was Re: Self modifying code, lambda calculus

On 9/23/2015 1:23 AM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > On 09/22/2015 09:06 PM, Jay Jaeger wrote: > >> That is just because they are so old that, aside from collectors or >> those interested in a particular old machine, nobody ever *bothered*. >> By the time C came along, those machines were well on their way

C out of its comfort zone - Re: Structured Fortran - was Re: Self modifying code

On 2015-09-22 10:25 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: On 09/22/2015 07:11 PM, Jay Jaeger wrote: There is a big difference between "can run" and "does run". I'd wager that C *can* run on anything one could use for any reasonably useful FORTRAN (thus excluding things like the IBM 1410 card oriented

C on non-binary machines [was Re: Structured Fortran - was Re: ...]

> As far as I can remember, the C standard still do not require that > the computer uses two complement. No, but unsigned integer types have to work as if it did. Signed integer types may use two's complement, one's complement, or even sign/magnitude, but nothing else; for example, implementing

Re: Structured Fortran - was Re: Self modifying code, lambda calculus

On 2015-09-23 16:43, Paul Koning wrote: On Sep 23, 2015, at 10:30 AM, Jay Jaeger wrote: On 9/23/2015 9:10 AM, Mouse wrote: I am 100% certain, for example, that it would be possible to come up with a C compiler for a 40K IBM 1410, which is in the set you describe.

Re: Structured Fortran - was Re: Self modifying code, lambda calculus

On 9/23/2015 9:10 AM, Mouse wrote: >> I am 100% certain, for example, that it would be possible to come up >> with a C compiler for a 40K IBM 1410, which is in the set you >> describe. > > Possible? Sure. But it would be difficult; you would need to simulate > a binary machine - C has a whole

Re: Structured Fortran - was Re: Self modifying code, lambda calculus

On 2015-09-23 16:30, Jay Jaeger wrote: It might not be ANSI C (any more than FORTRAN II is FORTRAN IV or BDS C was ANSI C), but one could certainly come up with a decent, useful C for such a machine. Can we skip this thread. It seems you are arguing the point that any machine can behave like

Re: Structured Fortran - was Re: Self modifying code, lambda calculus

> I am 100% certain, for example, that it would be possible to come up > with a C compiler for a 40K IBM 1410, which is in the set you > describe. Possible? Sure. But it would be difficult; you would need to simulate a binary machine - C has a whole bunch of stuff that is defined to operate "as

Re: Thoughts on manual database design?

On 9/23/2015 1:38 AM, ste...@malikoff.com wrote: > Instead of cooking up another completely custom inventory management schema, > you might consider adhering to Dublin Core for some more modern > schema conventions: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin_Core Slightly more useful than MARC, but

Re: Structured Fortran - was Re: Self modifying code, lambda calculus

> On Sep 23, 2015, at 10:30 AM, Jay Jaeger wrote: > > On 9/23/2015 9:10 AM, Mouse wrote: >>> I am 100% certain, for example, that it would be possible to come up >>> with a C compiler for a 40K IBM 1410, which is in the set you >>> describe. >> >> Possible? Sure. But it

Re: Structured Fortran - was Re: Self modifying code, lambda calculus

On 09/23/2015 01:39 AM, ANDY HOLT wrote: From: "Chuck Guzis" … After all, languages are supposed to expose features of the underlying machine to the programmer. Many believe that the purpose of languages is to HIDE (abstract) the underlying machine. And I take your

Re: would like to find blue dg et head looking terminal to go with small ecli...

On 9/23/2015 11:28 AM, couryhouse wrote: > Wow! That is neat! > Our Dec logic trainer has sort of 8i looking toggles and lots of patch > cords... I had not seen one like yours. ... what is the date? > Ed# > > > There is an earlier one of similar design, but blue colored, in the 1966-67, 1967

Re: would like to find blue dg et head looking terminal to go with small ecli...

Wow! That is neat!Our Dec logic trainer has sort of 8i looking toggles and lots of patch cords... I had not seen one like yours. ... what is the date?Ed# Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: Jay Jaeger Date:

Re: Re: would like to find blue dg et head looking terminal to go with small ecli...

On Wed, Sep 23, 2015 at 9:28 AM, couryhouse wrote: > > > Wow! That is neat!Our Dec logic trainer has sort of 8i looking toggles and > lots of patch cords... I had not seen one like yours. ... what is the > date?Ed# > > I'm pretty sure I saw one of those circa 1970. It was a

Re: C out of its comfort zone - Re: Structured Fortran - was Re: Self modifying code

On 2015-09-23 12:25 PM, Noel Chiappa wrote: > From: Toby Thain > It did exist for some exotic, word addressed architectures {Innocent look} You mean, like the PDP-10? Chris Torek mentioned Data General. Typical post:

Re: C out of its comfort zone - Re: Structured Fortran - was Re: Self modifying code

On Sep 23, 2015, at 9:25 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote: >> From: Toby Thain > >> It did exist for some exotic, word addressed architectures > > {Innocent look} > > You mean, like the PDP-10? > > {Ducks!} > >Noel Strangest C I saw was on a DPS-8 mainframe running

Re: Structured Fortran - was Re: Self modifying code, lambda calculus

On 09/22/2015 08:49 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: On 09/22/2015 06:31 PM, Jon Elson wrote: So, B was never actually a FORTRAN compiler, just Ken started thinking about FORTRAN grammar and within one DAY took off in a different direction. By that time (1969 or so) FORTRAN was a really old

Re: Structured Fortran - was Re: Self modifying code, lambda calculus

On 9/23/2015 11:17 AM, Jon Elson wrote: > On 09/23/2015 03:39 AM, ANDY HOLT wrote: >>> From: "Chuck Guzis" >> … >>> After all, languages are supposed to expose features >>> of the underlying machine to the programmer. >> Many believe that the purpose of languages is to HIDE

Re: Structured Fortran - was Re: Self modifying code, lambda calculus

On 09/23/2015 03:39 AM, ANDY HOLT wrote: From: "Chuck Guzis" … After all, languages are supposed to expose features of the underlying machine to the programmer. Many believe that the purpose of languages is to HIDE (abstract) the underlying machine. Well, as far as I know,

Re: C out of its comfort zone - Re: Structured Fortran - was Re: Self modifying code

> From: Toby Thain > It did exist for some exotic, word addressed architectures {Innocent look} You mean, like the PDP-10? {Ducks!} Noel

Re: would like to find blue dg et head looking terminal to go with small ecli...

I really believe a person would make an entire interesting collection of just logic trainers! we have a couple of the MINIVAC trainers too one I keep under glass and the other I take out for show and tell. We have a fabritek and a few other later ones too. In

RE: The desk has arrived - WAS: Somewhat OT: Freighting Items

> I don't remember which model mine is, but here are some links: > > http://www.cnet.com/products/ibm-3345sl-cordless-phone-with-caller-id- > call-waiting/specs/ > > http://www.cnet.com/products/ibm-3460-cordless-phone-with-caller-id- > call-waiting/ > >

Re: C out of its comfort zone - Re: Structured Fortran - was Re: Self modifying code

On Wed, Sep 23, 2015 at 10:21 AM, Zane H. Healy wrote: > On Sep 23, 2015, at 9:25 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote: > > >> From: Toby Thain > > > >> It did exist for some exotic, word addressed architectures > > > > {Innocent look} > > > > You mean, like the

Re: Thoughts on manual database design?

Instead of cooking up another completely custom inventory management schema, you might consider adhering to Dublin Core for some more modern schema conventions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin_Core For the dbms engine I would use MariaDB over MySql (but with some of the MySQL tool chain)

Re: Structured Fortran - was Re: Self modifying code, lambda calculus

On 09/22/2015 09:06 PM, Jay Jaeger wrote: That is just because they are so old that, aside from collectors or those interested in a particular old machine, nobody ever *bothered*. By the time C came along, those machines were well on their way to their eventual demise. I am 100% certain, for

Re: Structured Fortran - was Re: Self modifying code, lambda calculus

> From: "Chuck Guzis" … > After all, languages are supposed to expose features > of the underlying machine to the programmer. Many believe that the purpose of languages is to HIDE (abstract) the underlying machine.

Re: would like to find blue dg et head looking terminal to go with small ecli...

Yes host was having hickups it seems. Take a look at the neat logic trainer by IBM at link below, Wish I had more info on this IBM tubetype digital logic trainer kit. comes in a wonderful fitted case with all kinds of plugable units see url

Re: would like to find blue dg et head looking terminal to go with small ecli...

You are indeed lucky they ceased. Mine did not start until my 20s It is definitely one thing that made sure I had my own business. Many people in a supervisory position have no understanding of what it is like. Ed# In a message dated 9/22/2015 10:10:22 P.M. US Mountain

Re: Structured Fortran - was Re: Self modifying code, lambda calculus

On 9/23/2015 4:27 PM, ben wrote: > On 9/23/2015 2:39 AM, ANDY HOLT wrote: >>> From: "Chuck Guzis" >> >> … >>> After all, languages are supposed to expose features >>> of the underlying machine to the programmer. >> >> Many believe that the purpose of languages is to HIDE

DDS SETASI SC44 info?

Hi all -- I just added a PDP-11/44 to my collection and it appears to have some manner of cache upgrade; it's made by Digital Data Systems (DDS) and consists of two cards, one hex-height labeled "SC44 SETASI" (in the place of the normal 11/44 cache board) and a second quad-height labeled "1051"

RE: Honeywell/Bull DPS-6 deskside info?

Many years ago we used them as Data Entry machines, but I have no documents and have forgotten everything I knew. > -Original Message- > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Josh > Dersch > Sent: 23 September 2015 22:45 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and

Re: cctalk Digest, Vol 15, Issue 23

On 9/23/2015 2:06 PM, m...@markesystems.com wrote: >> So, I am looking to convert my old Access database I have used for many >> years to a MySQL database, with the expectation that I will eventually >> publish it on a web page for public lookup. > > I don't know what you're looking at for the

Re: Structured Fortran - was Re: Self modifying code, lambda calculus

On 9/23/2015 2:39 AM, ANDY HOLT wrote: From: "Chuck Guzis" … After all, languages are supposed to expose features of the underlying machine to the programmer. Many believe that the purpose of languages is to HIDE (abstract) the underlying machine. The 60's idea that

Honeywell/Bull DPS-6 deskside info?

Along with the 11/44 I also picked up a Honeywell/Bull DPS-6 deskside workstation; I can't seem to dig up much information specific to this model (a badge on the rear labels it as "Model/Index No. B01732"). I can take some detailed pictures later this week after I've had time to clean it up (it's

Re: cctalk Digest, Vol 15, Issue 23

On 9/23/2015 1:45 PM, m...@markesystems.com wrote: >> There were plenty of assemblers around, some even native. Heck, I wrote >> both an 8008 and an 8080 cross-assembler (in FORTRAN, naturally). It's >> not rocket science. One friend of mine wrote his assembler as macros >> for a mainframe

Re: LA120 ROM & new member intro

On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 9:29 PM, Paul Anderson wrote: What is the part number of the dead power supply you gave up on? > It's the H7864 (Astec aa12130) in the BA23 enclosure. It powered up a few times, but now only the switch light comes on. If I remember, it wouldn't power

Re: Thoughts on manual database design?

If anyone cares a draft data model is visible at: http://webpages.charter.net/thecomputercollection/misc/manualmodel.pdf (It may change as I work on the design). Biggest change from earlier discussions: I found no reason not to merge the manuals/artifacts relationship table into the artifact

Re: Structured Fortran

At NCAR there was a structured Fortran preprocessor named IFTRAN that was in use for a long time. The earlier versions of the NCAR Local Network (NLNET), later renamed MASnet (Mainframe and Server network), as well as a variety of graphics packages were written in it. I still have the IFTRAN

Re: would like to find blue dg et head looking terminal to go with small ecli...

On 9/23/2015 2:34 PM, couryho...@aol.com wrote: > I really believe a person would make an entire interesting > collection of just logic trainers! > > we have a couple of the MINIVAC trainers too one I keep under > glass and the other I take out for show and tell. > My

Re: would like to find blue dg et head looking terminal to go with small ecli...

Ok have digicomp... then there were the arrray of analog computers with potentiometers and a meter In a message dated 9/23/2015 1:54:51 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, cu...@charter.net writes: On 9/23/2015 2:34 PM, couryho...@aol.com wrote: > I really believe a person

Re: would like to find blue dg et head looking terminal to go with small ecli...

see if mother in law can bag it! they are rather pricey now! heh heh! In a message dated 9/23/2015 1:54:51 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, cu...@charter.net writes: On 9/23/2015 2:34 PM, couryho...@aol.com wrote: > I really believe a person would make an entire interesting

Re: cctalk Digest, Vol 15, Issue 23

There were plenty of assemblers around, some even native. Heck, I wrote both an 8008 and an 8080 cross-assembler (in FORTRAN, naturally). It's not rocket science. One friend of mine wrote his assembler as macros for a mainframe assembler. That, at once, gave him all of the advanced facilities

Re: cctalk Digest, Vol 15, Issue 23

So, I am looking to convert my old Access database I have used for many years to a MySQL database, with the expectation that I will eventually publish it on a web page for public lookup. I don't know what you're looking at for the front end of this project, but have you considered SQLite for

Re: Anyone recognize this bus/form factor?

That's odd. I can't say for sure but... it has the feel of something that might have belonged in a terminal or keyboard... character generator or something... stab in the dark really. Mike On Thu, Sep 24, 2015 at 2:05 PM, Mike Stein wrote: > 68xx system, unusual (in my

Re: Anyone recognize this bus/form factor?

heathkit? On Wed, Sep 23, 2015 at 10:43 PM, Mike Ross wrote: > That's odd. > > I can't say for sure but... it has the feel of something that might > have belonged in a terminal or keyboard... character generator or > something... stab in the dark really. > > Mike > > On Thu,

Re: Honeywell/Bull DPS-6 deskside info?

On 9/23/2015 2:44 PM, Josh Dersch wrote: Along with the 11/44 I also picked up a Honeywell/Bull DPS-6 deskside workstation; I can't seem to dig up much information specific to this model (a badge on the rear labels it as "Model/Index No. B01732"). I can take some detailed pictures later this

Re: Honeywell/Bull DPS-6 deskside info?

On Sep 23, 2015, at 7:42 PM, steve shumaker wrote: > On 9/23/2015 2:44 PM, Josh Dersch wrote: >> Along with the 11/44 I also picked up a Honeywell/Bull DPS-6 deskside >> workstation; I can't seem to dig up much information specific to this model >> (a badge on the rear labels

Re: Honeywell/Bull DPS-6 deskside info?

On Wed, Sep 23, 2015 at 8:00 PM, Zane Healy wrote: > > On Sep 23, 2015, at 7:42 PM, steve shumaker wrote: > > > One legend that gets trotted out whenever you speak of WWMMCCS is the > cookie monster that was on terminals in the Pentagon installation of >

Re: Structured Fortran - was Re: Self modifying code, lambda calculus

On 09/23/2015 05:54 PM, Paul Koning wrote: On Sep 23, 2015, at 7:24 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: ... The C macro facility barely qualifies as such. PL/I had a wonderful preprocessor; That depends on the compiler. Well, IBM did have a real PL/I compiler (after all, they

Re: Structured Fortran - was Re: Self modifying code, lambda calculus

On 09/23/2015 04:29 PM, Jay Jaeger wrote: Shades of SIL for SNOBOL and also STAGE2. The first time I did this was for translating COBOL to a special-purpose dialect. Not a simple lexical task--it was a full-blown two-pass affair. The initial test versions of the thing were very, very

Re: Backups [was Re: Is tape dead?]

On 21/09/15 14:15, Noel Chiappa wrote: > From: tony duell > In some cases it should be possible to write a machine code program > that executes on 2 processors with wildly different instruciton sets. I have this bit set that I was told (or something, the memory is _very_ vague)

Re: Structured Fortran - was Re: Self modifying code, lambda calculus

On 09/23/2015 02:27 PM, ben wrote: The 60's idea that MACROS could do that seems to have faded away. Ben. It depends. One very handy method is to devise a machine architecture, complete with registers and opcodes, and write the application code in macros, creating instruction words--and

Re: Backups [was Re: Is tape dead?]

On 21/09/15 01:55, Jerome H. Fine wrote: I used the above example when I created a CD which had files to be used with RT-11 in addition to being a normal CD under Windows. I found that for a normal CD under Windows, sectors 0 to 15 (hard disk blocks 0 to 63) on the CD were empty. I don't know

Re: Structured Fortran - was Re: Self modifying code, lambda calculus

On 9/23/2015 6:24 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > On 09/23/2015 02:27 PM, ben wrote: > >> The 60's idea that MACROS could do that seems to have faded away. >> Ben. > > It depends. One very handy method is to devise a machine architecture, > complete with registers and opcodes, and write the

Re: Backups [was Re: Is tape dead?]

On 2015-09-24 01:15, Antonio Carlini wrote: On 21/09/15 14:15, Noel Chiappa wrote: > From: tony duell > In some cases it should be possible to write a machine code program > that executes on 2 processors with wildly different instruciton sets. I have this bit set that I was

Re: DDS SETASI SC44 info?

FYI, I've thrown up a couple of (cell phone) photos of the SC44 boards here: http://yahozna.dyndns.org/scratch/sc44/ I'll have the machine home in a few days and I'll be able to take better pictures then... - Josh On 9/23/15 2:40 PM, Josh Dersch wrote: Hi all -- I just added a PDP-11/44

Re: Structured Fortran - was Re: Self modifying code, lambda calculus

> On Sep 23, 2015, at 7:24 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > > ... > The C macro facility barely qualifies as such. PL/I had a wonderful > preprocessor; That depends on the compiler. I remember the PL/C compiler (from Cornell, running on IBM 370s). In graduate school, we were

Re: Honeywell/Bull DPS-6 deskside info?

Sam Ismail used to have a DPS-6, if not more than one, but I don't think he was ever able to do anything with it. Does it have GCOS-6 installed? I worked on DPS-8's and GCOS-8 a lifetime ago. I did a little with GCOS-6, mainly assisting with moving operations from DPS-6 Mini's over to HP 9000

Re: Honeywell/Bull DPS-6 deskside info?

there was a nightmare! In a message dated 9/23/2015 6:20:18 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, heal...@aracnet.com writes: Sam Ismail used to have a DPS-6, if not more than one

Re: ISO: FP11-F (M7093) for PDP-11/44

I've got some here. Let me find it later tonight or tomorrow and I'll contact you off list. Paul On Wed, Sep 23, 2015 at 8:27 PM, Josh Dersch wrote: > The 11/44 I acquired recently has a complete CPU set but no FP11-F board > (M7093). I'd like to be able to run 2.11BSD (or

Re: The desk has arrived - WAS: Somewhat OT: Freighting Items

* Ali [150921 17:24]: > Well, > > In case anyone is still interested the desk arrived on Friday. The seller > did a very good job of packing it and it arrived in tact. Thanks to everyone > for their input, tips, and bits of wisdom. BTW: If anyone is interested you > can check

ISO: FP11-F (M7093) for PDP-11/44

The 11/44 I acquired recently has a complete CPU set but no FP11-F board (M7093). I'd like to be able to run 2.11BSD (or other UNIX) on this machine, so having floating point hardware is pretty essential -- anyone have one going spare for sale/trade? Thanks as always, Josh

Re: Structured Fortran - was Re: Self modifying code, lambda calculus

On Wed, Sep 23, 2015 at 8:30 AM, Jay Jaeger wrote: > An int just has to be able to store numbers of a certain magnitude. > Same with long. You do have to be able to convert between longs (and > possibly ints) and addresses (*). So, you make an int 5 digits (which > matches

Re: Honeywell/Bull DPS-6 deskside info?

Ah, so these are the vintagetech.com machines! Please take lots of pics of the DPS-8 inside and out; I've never really seen the innards of a Honeywell machine before and I'm kind of curious what their "style" looks like. Best, Sean On Wed, Sep 23, 2015 at 5:47 PM, Dave G4UGM

Re: Thoughts on manual database design?

Not sure why you have VARCHARs for primary keys, why not use the conventional auto-increment int so you can dispense with the LastGeneratedArtifactID table. CREATE TABLE Manual_Artifact ( ArtifactID INT(11) NOT NULL AUTO_INCREMENT, . . . other fields . . . CONSTRAINT