Re: OT: lenses (Was: Front Panels - PDP8 and PDP 11

2016-03-10 Thread COURYHOUSE
I saved one hassie from my photo era before the computer business and after USAF I was a commercial photog. I used ELM's for fashon work and had a couple of cms and a SWC wideangle fixed lens one I keptone c w/ 80m mm and a 150 mm and a few backs th

Re: OT: lenses (Was: Front Panels - PDP8 and PDP 11

2016-03-10 Thread Zane Healy
> On Mar 10, 2016, at 10:05 PM, couryho...@aol.com wrote: > > I wonder if the tele tessar was a true tessar design or just a use > of 'the name' ? I have seen snipits in google referring to it being a true > telephoto... with a true tessar formula lens IS NOT. I think it’s based

Re: Options for resurrecting VAX 4000/400 and Vaxstation 3200

2016-03-10 Thread emu
Zitat von Glen Slick : I think you need at least an M7626 KA660 CPU or better to recognize a SCSI CD-ROM attached to a M5976 KZQSA as a boot device, where it should normally appear as DKA0. The KZQSA is supported only on the 4000 series. The only "real" DEC QBUS Controller was the RQZX1, good

Free file downloads

2016-03-10 Thread Cindy Croxton
I just found this download site. It includes drivers, games, etc., and many programs and drivers for Win NT and up, Linux, and Mac. No spyware or crapware, just good files. Maybe not old compared to a lot of posts here, but there are drivers for many very old cards for very old Win systems. http:

Re: OT: lenses (Was: Front Panels - PDP8 and PDP 11

2016-03-10 Thread COURYHOUSE
I wonder if the tele tessar was a true tessar design or just a use of 'the name' ? I have seen snipits in google referring to it being a true telephoto... with a true tessar formula lens IS NOT. ok the norm for the hassleblad was a80 mm f 2.8 planar... in the rolliflex t

Re: Options for resurrecting VAX 4000/400 and Vaxstation 3200

2016-03-10 Thread Glen Slick
On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 4:23 AM, Dr. Roland Schregle > > Yep, it's in a BA23 with a ridiculously dense Q-Bus. I considered installing > the KZQSA from the 4000 in the 3200, but the edge connectors won't fit even > after removing the panel, plus I read in the list archives that the 3200 > won't boot

RE: Options for resurrecting VAX 4000/400 and Vaxstation 3200

2016-03-10 Thread Robert Jarratt
> -Original Message- > From: cctech [mailto:cctech-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Dr. > Roland Schregle > Sent: 10 March 2016 12:39 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Options for resurrecting VAX 4000/400 and Vaxstation 3200 > > On Wed, 09 Mar 2016 21:59:27 +0

Re: Options for resurrecting VAX 4000/400 and Vaxstation 3200

2016-03-10 Thread Dr. Roland Schregle
On Thu, 10 Mar 2016 14:23:34 +0100, Peter Coghlan wrote: FWIW, here's a thermography (hope the link works) of the B-cache section of the KA-675 after being powered up for ca. 30 mins: https://www.dropbox.com/s/2nsx1dfngp1jfq5/TH710065.BMP?dl=0 Note that the rightmost chip just below th

Re: OT: lenses (Was: Front Panels - PDP8 and PDP 11

2016-03-10 Thread Adrian Stoness
digital backs yea.. if they had one for the pentax 6x7 i woulda keted it but alas i gave up waiting and sold it bought a lens for my nikon d90 lol On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 7:25 PM, Fred Cisin wrote: > posters! The lens was a Goerz Red Dot Artar and the sharpest flat >>> field lens >>> >> On

Re: OT: lenses (Was: Front Panels - PDP8 and PDP 11

2016-03-10 Thread Zane Healy
> On Mar 10, 2016, at 7:25 PM, couryho...@aol.com wrote: > > Hasselblad did not use tessar. tesar was a good lens but certainly > not the hi end > ed# My camera’s with Tessar’s are Rolleiflex TLR’s, not my Hasselblad’s. I got the two I have more for fun than anything, but the one can p

Re: Which RT-11 for an 11/03

2016-03-10 Thread Don North
On 3/10/2016 7:02 PM, j...@cimmeri.com wrote: On 3/10/2016 9:36 PM, Richard Cini wrote: Separately… John — the SLUs are at what I think are the standard addresses and vectors (per the Heathkit and DLV11-J manuals) and the ODT and TU58EM work. I don’t know what RT-11 is looking for but the conso

Re: OT: lenses (Was: Front Panels - PDP8 and PDP 11

2016-03-10 Thread Marco Gariboldi
2016-03-11 4:25 GMT+01:00 : > Hasselblad did not use tessar. tesar was a good lens but certainly > not the hi end > ed# > Incorrect. There were various, like the *Tele-Tessar*, which appeared for Hasselblad. (By the way, your messages usually end up in my spam bin. Just so you know...)

Re: OT: lenses (Was: Front Panels - PDP8 and PDP 11

2016-03-10 Thread COURYHOUSE
Hasselblad did not use tessar. tesar was a good lens but certainly not the hi end ed# In a message dated 3/10/2016 8:01:07 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, mgaribo...@gmail.com writes: 2016-03-10 16:59 GMT+01:00 Zane Healy : > > > On Mar 9, 2016, at 11:37 PM, Paul Anderson wrote:

Re: OT: lenses (Was: Front Panels - PDP8 and PDP 11

2016-03-10 Thread Marco Gariboldi
2016-03-11 1:11 GMT+01:00 Fred Cisin : > C-Mount is the standard mount for 16mm movie, and then for TV cameras. > Mostly consumer/prosumer film (depending how far you go back) and, indeed, TV cameras; high(er)-end cinema lenses usually had different mounts. As people often remark: C mount lenses

Re: OT: lenses (Was: Front Panels - PDP8 and PDP 11

2016-03-10 Thread Marco Gariboldi
2016-03-10 2:53 GMT+01:00 Zane Healy : > Personally I need a nice ASPH 28mm or 35mm Summicron. I have the original > Nikkon 35mm f/2, one of the very first made, it’s been Ai’d, and it’s an > AMAZING lens. > That Nikon *(*e.g. *Nikkor-HC Auto* I presume?) 2/35 lens is quite good, but if you thin

Re: Which RT-11 for an 11/03

2016-03-10 Thread j...@cimmeri.com
On 3/10/2016 9:36 PM, Richard Cini wrote: Separately… John — the SLUs are at what I think are the standard addresses and vectors (per the Heathkit and DLV11-J manuals) and the ODT and TU58EM work. I don’t know what RT-11 is looking for but the console @ 177560/60 and TU58 @ 176500/300 (Channel

Re: OT: lenses (Was: Front Panels - PDP8 and PDP 11

2016-03-10 Thread Marco Gariboldi
2016-03-10 16:59 GMT+01:00 Zane Healy : > > > On Mar 9, 2016, at 11:37 PM, Paul Anderson wrote: > > > > Popular or Modern Photography 20 or 30 years ago had an article on the 10 > > best lens ever made. I think Zeiss made 3 of them, and they were the only > > company with more than one. > > One o

Re: Which RT-11 for an 11/03

2016-03-10 Thread Richard Cini
On 3/10/16, 9:07 PM, "cctalk on behalf of Paul Koning" wrote: > >> >If memory serves, what you have is part 1 of the boot (1 sector, block 0), >part 2 (2 sectors, block 2), then something is looking through the directory >(sectors 6 and up) and then the read from block 134 is presumably a fil

Re: OT: where I've landed

2016-03-10 Thread Tony Aiuto
Well played. On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 9:07 PM, Ian S. King wrote: > Hi all, > > I informed the list when I left the Living Computer Museum, so it seems > appropriate to tell you where I've landed. My new employer was in the news > this week: > > > http://arstechnica.com/science/2016/03/behind-th

OT: where I've landed

2016-03-10 Thread Ian S. King
Hi all, I informed the list when I left the Living Computer Museum, so it seems appropriate to tell you where I've landed. My new employer was in the news this week: http://arstechnica.com/science/2016/03/behind-the-curtain-ars-goes-inside-blue-origins-secretive-rocket-factory/ The second photo

Re: Which RT-11 for an 11/03

2016-03-10 Thread Paul Koning
> On Mar 10, 2016, at 8:51 PM, Don North wrote: > >> ... >> info: boot unit=0 blk=0x cnt=0x0200 >> info: read unit=0 sw=0x00 mod=0x00 blk=0x0002 cnt=0x0800 >> info: read unit=0 sw=0x00 mod=0x00 blk=0x0006 cnt=0x0400 >> info: read unit=0 sw=0x00 mod=0x00 blk=0x0008 cnt=0x0400

Re: Which RT-11 for an 11/03

2016-03-10 Thread j...@cimmeri.com
On 3/10/2016 8:57 PM, Richard Cini wrote: Maybe I’ll re-create the image again and see if that helps. I’m using the RT11v4 image from the SIMH distribution and it boots just fine (as an RK05 image) under SIMH. Rich Try making an RL02 image from the RK05 image in SIMH and booting from that (i

Re: Which RT-11 for an 11/03

2016-03-10 Thread j...@cimmeri.com
On 3/10/2016 8:24 PM, Richard Cini wrote: Ok, I spent some time trying this again, and here’s what I did. The system is very basic — LSI-11 CPU, 32kw of RAM and two SLU cards. Have you checked your SLU addresses and vectors to be sure they're standard values (ie. what RT11 is expecting)? I r

Re: Which RT-11 for an 11/03

2016-03-10 Thread Richard Cini
On 3/10/16, 8:51 PM, "cctalk on behalf of Don North" wrote: > >These last two read commands look awful suspicious to me. A single logical >device block is 512B (or 0x200) so the count >parameter is 0x200 for one block, 0x400 for two consecutive blocks, etc. 0xA00 >is five consecutive blocks.

Re: Which RT-11 for an 11/03

2016-03-10 Thread Don North
On 3/10/2016 5:24 PM, Richard Cini wrote: Gary, et. al.-- Ok, I spent some time trying this again, and here’s what I did. The system is very basic — LSI-11 CPU, 32kw of RAM and two SLU cards. Using PDP11GUI and TU58em emulator. XXDPD2D tape image loads and runs properly with this configuratio

RE: Which RT-11 for an 11/03

2016-03-10 Thread Gary L. Messick
Again, I don't really have much experience with RT-11. Is it possible the disk image has drivers for the disk system (which you don't have) and is crashing? Jerome Fine is the expert on RT-11. Jerome? Any ideas? Gary > -Original Message- > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classic

Re: OT: lenses (Was: Front Panels - PDP8 and PDP 11

2016-03-10 Thread Zane Healy
> On Mar 10, 2016, at 4:11 PM, Fred Cisin wrote: > >>> (Note: the only digital that can handle a D-mount is the Pentax-Q. It >>> claims to be the smallest interchangeable lens digital - I need to get a >>> letter writing campaign going to convince Minox to redo their Minox-Leica >>> as a scr

Re: Which RT-11 for an 11/03

2016-03-10 Thread Richard Cini
Gary, et. al.-- Ok, I spent some time trying this again, and here’s what I did. The system is very basic — LSI-11 CPU, 32kw of RAM and two SLU cards. Using PDP11GUI and TU58em emulator. XXDPD2D tape image loads and runs properly with this configuration and the standard boot loader. Based on th

Re: OT: lenses (Was: Front Panels - PDP8 and PDP 11

2016-03-10 Thread Zane Healy
> On Mar 10, 2016, at 2:49 AM, couryho...@aol.com wrote: > > Paul - My darkroom became a storage room! About 4-5 years ago my “Computer Lab” became my darkroom. :-) Though my Commodore 64 is setup between my Beseler 23C and my Beseler 45MX enlargers. :-) One of these days I have a darkroo

Re: OT: lenses (High speed cameras)

2016-03-10 Thread jwsmobile
On 3/10/2016 4:11 PM, Fred Cisin wrote: (Note: the only digital that can handle a D-mount is the Pentax-Q. It claims to be the smallest interchangeable lens digital - I need to get a letter writing campaign going to convince Minox to redo their Minox-Leica as a screw-mount using C or D mount

Re: OT: lenses (Was: Front Panels - PDP8 and PDP 11

2016-03-10 Thread Fred Cisin
(Note: the only digital that can handle a D-mount is the Pentax-Q. It claims to be the smallest interchangeable lens digital - I need to get a letter writing campaign going to convince Minox to redo their Minox-Leica as a screw-mount using C or D mount!) On Thu, 10 Mar 2016, Zane Healy wrote:

Re: OT: lenses (Was: Front Panels - PDP8 and PDP 11

2016-03-10 Thread Zane Healy
> On Mar 10, 2016, at 8:42 AM, Fred Cisin wrote: > > one of these days, . . . > The Sony Nex/E-mount is a very thin camera. Thinner than the > Micro-Four-Thirds. It can take a C-mount lens without needing a recessed > adapter. I gotta dig out my Goerz Hypar and try that on my Nex (not an A7

Re: OT: lenses (Was: Front Panels - PDP8 and PDP 11

2016-03-10 Thread Zane Healy
> On Mar 10, 2016, at 8:55 AM, Fred Cisin wrote: > > On Thu, 10 Mar 2016, Fred Cisin wrote: >> You might also get a little vignetting from any very short focal length lens >> that isn't retro-focus, since the sensors are expecting all light to be >> coming in perpendicularly, not from a optic

Xerox: MFM emulator: disk images available

2016-03-10 Thread Mike Ross
I've been hacking Xerox recently and using Dave's excellent MFM emulator. I'm making two working bootable images available. One is Lisp - the 'Lyric' distribution. It boots and works and appears complete and useful but I haven't explored Lisp enough to grok it. The other is a clean install of View

Re: Which RT-11 for an 11/03

2016-03-10 Thread Richard Cini
Thanks Gary. This is my understanding as well since everything works with XXDP right from DEC and I'm not using the H-27. So, I remain optimistic that I can get this working. Rich Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 10, 2016, at 5:46 PM, Gary L. Messick wrote: > > There is no difference in the LSI

RE: Which RT-11 for an 11/03

2016-03-10 Thread Gary L. Messick
There is no difference in the LSI-11 board on an H-11 and a pdp-11/03. What DEC did do was cripple Heath's version of RT-11 (called HT-11). It would only work with Heath's H-27 floppy drive unit. The Heath serial, parallel, and memory cards were all compatible with DEC's offerings, AFAIK. Tha

Re: Which RT-11 for an 11/03

2016-03-10 Thread Richard Cini
If I have time tonight I'll log the session with "verbose" set on the TU58EM. Again, I'm trying the trick of booting from a TU58 emulator and an RK image with DD as the boot target (supposedly can work but maybe slow). I can see the blocks being read in but it stops and doesn't give me the sign-

Re: Which RT-11 for an 11/03

2016-03-10 Thread Pete Turnbull
On 10/03/2016 20:08, Paul Koning wrote: On Mar 10, 2016, at 2:54 PM, Pete Turnbull wrote: On 10/03/2016 19:28, Richard Cini wrote: I feel I'm close but I'm missing something. I may try 5.3 instead. I've got various RX01, RX02, RL01 and RL02 disks with RT-11 v2, 4.0 and 5.2, 5.3, 5.4 and 5.

Re: Which RT-11 for an 11/03

2016-03-10 Thread Paul Koning
> On Mar 10, 2016, at 2:54 PM, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > On 10/03/2016 19:28, Richard Cini wrote: >> Thanks Mattis. The system in question has 32kw of memory and it does >> pass the memory test. >> >> I have not tried to boot the resulting DD image on SIMH but the >> original RK image does boot.

Re: Which RT-11 for an 11/03

2016-03-10 Thread Pete Turnbull
On 10/03/2016 19:28, Richard Cini wrote: Thanks Mattis. The system in question has 32kw of memory and it does pass the memory test. I have not tried to boot the resulting DD image on SIMH but the original RK image does boot. I feel I'm close but I'm missing something. I may try 5.3 instead. I

Re: Which RT-11 for an 11/03

2016-03-10 Thread Richard Cini
Thanks Jay. Admittedly I'm fishing here. I know that Heath had their own RT-11 for their floppy system but I don't have the floppy. The system is fairly generic in that it has only the CPU, RAM and two SLUs (one of which is used for an emulated TU58). Unless DEC made changes to the microm on the

RE: Which RT-11 for an 11/03

2016-03-10 Thread Jay West
The OP was specifically asking about RT11 on a Heathkit H11, not "just any ol' LSI-11". Very possible I'm completely incorrect here, but I thought I recalled that DEC gave heathkit a special price on H11 boards and OS license and such - so that Heathkit could produce the system for a price that th

Re: Which RT-11 for an 11/03

2016-03-10 Thread Richard Cini
Thanks Mattis. The system in question has 32kw of memory and it does pass the memory test. I have not tried to boot the resulting DD image on SIMH but the original RK image does boot. I feel I'm close but I'm missing something. I may try 5.3 instead. Rich Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 10,

RE: tops20 assembly tutorials

2016-03-10 Thread Rich Alderson
From: David Griffith Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2016 4:14 PM > On Tue, 8 Mar 2016, Rich Alderson wrote: >> From: David Griffith >> Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 11:53 PM >>> Specifically I'm trying to build and run this: >>> CIRC 2,-^D18 >> Where did this code come from? > I got it fr

Re: Which RT-11 for an 11/03

2016-03-10 Thread Mattis Lind
2016-03-10 18:51 GMT+01:00 Richard Cini : > Is there a listing somewhere of what versions of RT-11 work with which > CPUs? The Heath H11 uses the LSI-11 which I think is an 11/03 equivalent. > Is there a specific version (or maximum version) designed for this CPU? > I have been using RT11 v5.3 on

Which RT-11 for an 11/03

2016-03-10 Thread Richard Cini
Is there a listing somewhere of what versions of RT-11 work with which CPUs? The Heath H11 uses the LSI-11 which I think is an 11/03 equivalent. Is there a specific version (or maximum version) designed for this CPU? I tried v4 using a method I found on-line (modifying with SIMH to make it boot

Re: Speaking of card cages...

2016-03-10 Thread Vincent Slyngstad
From: jwsmobile: Wednesday, March 09, 2016 11:49 PM Different than the 8/A 400. Here is a very clear photo of the card guides and cage for that beast. http://www.retrotechnology.com/restore/8a_1sttest_trans.jpg It is likely that with decent photos of one of these (outside the card cage), and m

Re: Speaking of card cages...

2016-03-10 Thread Henk Gooijen
-Oorspronkelijk bericht- From: jwsmobile Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 8:49 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Speaking of card cages... http://www.oldcomputers.arcula.co.uk/files/images/pdp8408.jpg http://www.retrotechnology.com/restore/8a_1sttest_trans.jpg I a

Re: OT: lenses (Was: Front Panels - PDP8 and PDP 11

2016-03-10 Thread Fred Cisin
On Thu, 10 Mar 2016, Fred Cisin wrote: You might also get a little vignetting from any very short focal length lens that isn't retro-focus, since the sensors are expecting all light to be coming in perpendicularly, not from a optic node very close to the center of the lens. THAT could be handl

Re: OT: lenses (Was: Front Panels - PDP8 and PDP 11

2016-03-10 Thread Fred Cisin
If anyone knows of a good digital body that will adapt to RTS optics, please let me know. On Thu, 10 Mar 2016, Zane Healy wrote: Take a look at the Sony a7 series of bodies, people are using RTS lenses on them. You can put almost anything on them, and they’re a full frame sensor. I know that

Re: Options for resurrecting VAX 4000/400 and Vaxstation 3200

2016-03-10 Thread Peter Coghlan
FWIW, here's a thermography (hope the link works) of the B-cache section of the KA-675 after being powered up for ca. 30 mins: https://www.dropbox.com/s/2nsx1dfngp1jfq5/TH710065.BMP?dl=0 Note that the rightmost chip just below the CPU heatsink has a pin that's ca. 2 degrees warmer than th

Re: Options for resurrecting VAX 4000/400 and Vaxstation 3200

2016-03-10 Thread Dr. Roland Schregle
On Thu, 10 Mar 2016 00:09:02 +0100, Peter Coghlan wrote: I have two KA-675s for this beast: Board #1 (originally installed) has a failed B-cache (console reports SUBTEST_35_12, DE_B_Cache_diag_mode.LIS) and crashes with an asynchronous write memory failure when booting VMS from CD.

Re: Options for resurrecting VAX 4000/400 and Vaxstation 3200

2016-03-10 Thread Dr. Roland Schregle
On Wed, 09 Mar 2016 21:59:27 +0100, Robert Jarratt wrote: I think one day I will have to equip myself and learn how to desolder and resolder surface mount chips. I don't know how many chips implement the B-CACHE, but perhaps you could replace all of them, assuming you know which ones th

Re: Options for resurrecting VAX 4000/400 and Vaxstation 3200

2016-03-10 Thread Dr. Roland Schregle
On Wed, 09 Mar 2016 23:22:04 +0100, Dennis Boone wrote: The RF72 disk is a 1GB DSSI drive, and I think it's supported by the base /400 machine. Once you have a working CPU, you can actually do some testing on this disk drive with just the VAX console firmware, because it's intelligent, and you

Re: OT: lenses (Was: Front Panels - PDP8 and PDP 11

2016-03-10 Thread Zane Healy
> On Mar 9, 2016, at 11:37 PM, Paul Anderson wrote: > > Popular or Modern Photography 20 or 30 years ago had an article on the 10 > best lens ever made. I think Zeiss made 3 of them, and they were the only > company with more than one. One of my all time favorite lenses is the Hasselblad 80mm f

Re: QSIC update

2016-03-10 Thread Noel Chiappa
> From: Henk Gooijen >> He's now starting in on interrupt cycles; once those work, he >> effectively has emulation of a minimal small RK > sounds very good - nice progress! Interrupts are now working, and as of yesterday (when I finally managed to get all the bugs out of my diagn

Re: Options for resurrecting VAX 4000/400 and Vaxstation 3200

2016-03-10 Thread Dr. Roland Schregle
On Wed, 09 Mar 2016 23:20:16 +0100, Glen Slick wrote: On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 12:59 PM, Robert Jarratt wrote: I don't have a 3200, nor can I find a manual, but since it looks to be more modern than a 2000, and apparently supports an RD54, then I would have thought the console firmware c

Re: OT: lenses (Was: Front Panels - PDP8 and PDP 11

2016-03-10 Thread COURYHOUSE
Paul - My darkroom became a storage room! still have the monster 5x7 durst enlarger w/ vacuum easel that I had since the 70s. what a beast! then I have small 2x3 omega to pull strips of negatives though to print. yea the digital stuff was a game changer indeed... I do not know a

Re: Sequoia Computer Systems?

2016-03-10 Thread Christian Corti
On Wed, 9 Mar 2016, Jay West wrote: Anyone have any pictures, datasheets, or other ephemera related to Sequoia Systems line of fault tolerant systems? That's what I found in the Computer Review No. 1 from 1987, page 351: SEQUOIA SYSTEMS: SEQUOIA POWER: 50.

Re: Options for resurrecting VAX 4000/400 and Vaxstation 3200

2016-03-10 Thread Paul Anderson
I might have spare cpu and memory cards. Please contact me off list if you are interested. Paul On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 1:25 AM, wrote: > Zitat von "Dr. Roland Schregle" : > > > The VS is located in Germany, but I'm currently working in Switzerland >> and won't get at the thing until my next v

Re: Speaking of card cages...

2016-03-10 Thread Vincent Slyngstad
From: jwsmobile: Wednesday, March 09, 2016 11:49 PM Here is a photo of a PDP 8/A 620 with the style of card guides that Vince is referring to: (I think) http://www.oldcomputers.arcula.co.uk/files/images/pdp8408.jpg Yep, that's what mine look like. Different than the 8/A 400. Here is a very

Re: Options for resurrecting VAX 4000/400 and Vaxstation 3200

2016-03-10 Thread emu
Zitat von "Dr. Roland Schregle" : The VS is located in Germany, but I'm currently working in Switzerland and won't get at the thing until my next vacation, probably sometime after Easter. Where in Germany?

Re: Speaking of card cages...

2016-03-10 Thread jwsmobile
On 3/9/2016 3:11 PM, jwsmobile wrote: On 3/9/2016 12:20 PM, Henk Gooijen wrote: Here is a photo of a PDP 8/A 620 with the style of card guides that Vince is referring to: (I think) http://www.oldcomputers.arcula.co.uk/files/images/pdp8408.jpg Different than the 8/A 400. Here is a ver