S-100 systems appraisal

Back in the 1970s and 80s, my brother and I used to frequent computer swap meets in and around Orange County, CA. We both built S-100 systems from the boards we bought there. I sold mine long ago, but my brother kept at it for several more years. Last December he passed away, and I discovered that

Re: R: Sparc Laptops

There's also the S3000 in that category (luggable SPARCs). On the RS/6000 ThinkPad side, I have an 860 and a currently refusing-to-boot 800. Are the 860 and 800 worth hutning down? All of them have 2.5" SCSI drives as well I assume. -- : Ethan O'Toole

Re: how fast were drum memories?

On 05/10/2018 01:17 PM, Jack Harper via cctalk wrote: > > > Chuck, do you know if the story that the FASTRAND drum was fabricated > from milled/machined sewer pipe is true??? > I remember hearing the joke that the (2 counter-rotating) drums were chrome-plated sewer pipe, but I would find that

Re: R: Sparc Laptops

On May 10, 2018, at 1:44 PM, Cameron Kaiser via cctalk wrote: >>> I'd be interested as well if any are left. >>> I sold a Sparcbook a while back that was missing the hard drive caddy. I >>> just couldn't find a caddy and had a random buyer that wanted it for a >>>

Re: how fast were drum memories?

On Thu, 10 May 2018, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: On 5/10/18 10:37 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: On 5/10/18 9:29 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: One that comes to mind is the DEC RS04. It spins at roughly 3600 rpm (a hair less, so obviously a 2 pole induction motor running off 3-phase

Re: R: Sparc Laptops

> > I'd be interested as well if any are left. > > I sold a Sparcbook a while back that was missing the hard drive caddy. I > > just couldn't find a caddy and had a random buyer that wanted it for a > > museum. It did have it netbooting though, and they are fun machines! > > Sparcbook and the IBM

Re: how fast were drum memories?

...press POWER ON and watch the lights dim as the helicopter sound spins up :) Jack At 02:25 PM 5/10/2018, you wrote: On 5/10/18 1:17 PM, Jack Harper via cctalk wrote: > > > Chuck, do you know if the story that the FASTRAND drum was fabricated from milled/machined sewer pipe is true???

Re: how fast were drum memories?

and this says they are 880 rpm https://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/univac/fastrand.html On 5/10/18 1:25 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > > > On 5/10/18 1:17 PM, Jack Harper via cctalk wrote: >> >> >> Chuck, do you know if the story that the FASTRAND drum was fabricated from >>

Re: how fast were drum memories?

On 5/10/18 1:17 PM, Jack Harper via cctalk wrote: > > > Chuck, do you know if the story that the FASTRAND drum was fabricated from > milled/machined sewer pipe is true??? it appears one still exists https://collection.maas.museum/object/261170 the decade is wrong. and

Re: HP 2100 prototyping card

On Wednesday, May 9, 2018 at 16:51, Al Kossow via cctech wrote: > https://www.ebay.com/itm/163039837440 This card also functions as the Privileged Interrupt Fence in RTE operating systems to permit the use of privileged I/O drivers, such as the one for the 12920A terminal multiplexer.

Re: how fast were drum memories?

Chuck, do you know if the story that the FASTRAND drum was fabricated from milled/machined sewer pipe is true??? Another apocryphal(?) story is that a FASTRAND unit lies today at the bottom of Tokyo Bay from when it fell from a freighter unloading crane. ...would have made a bit of a

Re: how fast were drum memories?

On 05/10/2018 12:53 PM, ben via cctalk wrote: > Can not be slower than modern computers, It takes 5 minutes for my mail > program to load under windows and grab new mail. > Once core memory became common, fast speeds are relative to other I/O > at the time, of TTY and punch card speeds.

RE: how fast were drum memories?

> Looking at modern hard disks, I'm unconvinced we could even mass- > produce > something like that today. > > A 40mm radius is comparable to a 3.5" disk, which are generally 5,400- > 7,200 > RPM. 15,000 RPM is the fastest available, but those tend to be low- > capacity and > expensive, and are

Re: R: Sparc Laptops

I'd be interested as well if any are left. I sold a Sparcbook a while back that was missing the hard drive caddy. I just couldn't find a caddy and had a random buyer that wanted it for a museum. It did have it netbooting though, and they are fun machines! Sparcbook and the IBM RS/6000 laptop

Re: how fast were drum memories?

On 5/10/2018 9:15 AM, Jack Harper via cctalk wrote: The Univac FASTRAND *was* slow. You could stand there watching through the window on the side of the 5,000-pound beast and actually see the enormous drum rotating as it lumbered along at, what, 14 RPS I think. Regards to the List - Jack

Re: how fast were drum memories?

"Fast" is a fuzzy term. The 865A drum that Paul cited did spin at 1800 RPM, but had a transfer speed of 2MHz per channel. Data was transfered in 12-bit parallel, so the composite transfer speed was 24Mbit/sec, which isn't too shabby for 1974. As it was used as a paging drum, transfer speed was

Re: how fast were drum memories?

On 2018-05-10 4:01 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: On 5/10/18 10:37 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: On 5/10/18 9:29 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: One that comes to mind is the DEC RS04. It spins at roughly 3600 rpm (a hair less, so obviously a 2 pole induction motor running off

Re: how fast were drum memories?

On 5/10/18 10:37 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > > > On 5/10/18 9:29 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > >> One that comes to mind is the DEC RS04. It spins at roughly 3600 rpm (a >> hair less, so obviously a 2 pole induction motor running off 3-phase 60 Hz >> power). > Vermont Research

RE: how fast were drum memories?

The fixed head disc used on MU5 had a 20.5ms revolution time and an inner track data rate of 2.2Mbytes/sec. Regards Rob > -Original Message- > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Paul > Koning via cctalk > Sent: 10 May 2018 17:30 > To: Grif

Re: how fast were drum memories?

there is a picture of a small 10K RPM drum here http://museum.ipsj.or.jp/en/computer/device/magnetic_drum/0017.html On 5/10/18 10:37 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > > > On 5/10/18 9:29 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > >> One that comes to mind is the DEC RS04. It spins at roughly 3600

Re: how fast were drum memories?

On 5/10/18 9:29 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > One that comes to mind is the DEC RS04. It spins at roughly 3600 rpm (a hair > less, so obviously a 2 pole induction motor running off 3-phase 60 Hz power). Vermont Research drums (model 1175B) spun at 3450 rpm 3ph 220v, The HP 2773 on the

Re: UUCP "bag" files

On 05/10/2018 11:05 AM, Kevin Bowling via cctalk wrote: As in mail bag That's what I sort of thought. But I've not been able to find anything documenting that. Someone on TUHS replied and said "news bag" like paper boys wore for delivering news. Seeing as how UUCP can easily carry both

Re: how fast were drum memories?

from "Dave Wade via cctalk" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, 10 May, 2018 5:53:38 PM Subject: RE: how fast were drum memories? I don't think early drums were terribly fast, but this wasn't a problem

Re: UUCP "bag" files

As in mail bag On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 8:30 AM, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: > Does anyone know why UUCP "bag" files are called "bag"? > > Thanks in advance. > > > > -- > Grant. . . . > unix || die

Re: Old newsreader source code

On Thu, 10 May 2018, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: On 05/10/2018 07:18 AM, geneb via cctalk wrote: Rich, if you point a reader at nttp.olduse.net, you can start reading in 1988 again. :)  The most recent messages posted are from 05/10/88.  The messages that appear on the server are exactly

RE: how fast were drum memories?

I don't think early drums were terribly fast, but this wasn't a problem because often they were on serial machines, and the data had to sync with the clock speed of the machine. I know that the Manchester Mk1 which evolved from the baby had a drum added. The design of the drum used changed as

Re: how fast were drum memories?

> On May 10, 2018, at 11:33 AM, Peter Corlett via cctalk > wrote: > > On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 10:29:06AM -0400, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: >> [...] So far so good. He goes on to suggest that such a drum might spin at >> 1000 revolutions per second, i.e., 60,000 rpm.

Re: how fast were drum memories?

added hp2000a info when drum was only rotating media it was used for swap and also program storage. kids,using a 2000a hp had a bit to tape punching to savesave their programs... as the drum did not hold a lot ed# www.smecc.org Sent from AOL Mobile Mail On Thursday, May 10, 2018 Ed

Re: how fast were drum memories?

> On May 10, 2018, at 10:37 AM, Grif wrote: > > > I wonder how the late generation paging disks (fixed head per track) like DG > used in the 80's compared? One that comes to mind is the DEC RS04. It spins at roughly 3600 rpm (a hair less, so obviously a 2 pole

Re: how fast were drum memories?

The Univac FASTRAND *was* slow. You could stand there watching through the window on the side of the 5,000-pound beast and actually see the enormous drum rotating as it lumbered along at, what, 14 RPS I think. Regards to the List - Jack At 08:57 AM 5/10/2018, Chuck Guzis via cctalk

Re: how fast were drum memories?

> On May 10, 2018, at 10:57 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk > wrote: > > On 05/10/2018 07:29 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > >> I'm wondering what the reality of fast drum memories looked like, and >> whether anyone came even close to these numbers. Also, am I right

Re: how fast were drum memories?

On 05/10/2018 09:57 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: Jim Thornton and folks at CDC ADL were working on a 100K RPM drum spinning in vacuo for a paging store, but they couldn't get it to work reliably. Anything with high bit density needs to have the heads very close to the data surface. With

Re: Old newsreader source code

On 05/10/2018 07:18 AM, geneb via cctalk wrote: Rich, if you point a reader at nttp.olduse.net, you can start reading in 1988 again. :)  The most recent messages posted are from 05/10/88.  The messages that appear on the server are exactly 30 years behind the current date.  It's pretty cool. 

Re: Old newsreader source code

On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 9:18 AM, geneb via cctalk wrote: > Rich, if you point a reader at nttp.olduse.net, you can start reading in > 1988 again. :) The most recent messages posted are from 05/10/88. The > messages that appear on the server are exactly 30 years behind the

Re: Old newsreader source code

On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 9:18 AM, geneb via cctalk wrote: > Rich, if you point a reader at nttp.olduse.net, you can start reading in > 1988 again. :) The most recent messages posted are from 05/10/88. The > messages that appear on the server are exactly 30 years behind the

Re: how fast were drum memories?

SOME OTHER  DRUM  USE  AS  I REMEMBER IT..  FOR  STORAGE HP 2000A TIMESHARE SYSTEM  USED  AS  DRUM    AS  SYSTEMS  WERE UPGRADED AND DISCS ADDED  FOR  2000C  ETC THRU F   SOME KEPT THEIR  DRUM  AS  SWAPPING  MEDIA. AS   THE HEARD PER TRACK WAS  FASTER THAN   MOVING HEAD  FOR  USER  SPACE 

Re: how fast were drum memories?

On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 10:29:06AM -0400, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > [...] So far so good. He goes on to suggest that such a drum might spin at > 1000 revolutions per second, i.e., 60,000 rpm. That seems amazingly high. I > could see it being physically possible for a drum of only 40 mm

UUCP "bag" files

Does anyone know why UUCP "bag" files are called "bag"? Thanks in advance. -- Grant. . . . unix || die

Re: Old newsreader source code

> 1989 was a bit before my time, Usenet-wise (I was still hitting the BBS scene > at the time), but around '93-94 when I got my first Unix shell account, I > recall using nn, but not terribly often (I mean, gopher was _right there_ for > the taking!). Another vote for nn (and, for that matter,

Re: how fast were drum memories?

On 05/10/2018 07:29 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > I'm wondering what the reality of fast drum memories looked like, and whether > anyone came even close to these numbers. Also, am I right in thinking they > are at least in principle achievable? I know I could run the stress numbers, >

Re: how fast were drum memories?

There are two places I'd check. The manual for the Royal McBee LGP-30 and the book Computer Structures: Readings and Examples by G Bell et al. Bill On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 10:37 AM, Grif via cctalk wrote: > > I wonder how the late generation paging disks (fixed head per

Re: how fast were drum memories?

I wonder how the late generation paging disks (fixed head per track) like DG used in the 80's compared? -Original Message- >From: Paul Koning via cctalk >Sent: May 10, 2018 7:29 AM >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"

how fast were drum memories?

Drums were used as main memory in a number of early computers, and as secondary memory for a while longer. I wonder how fast real ones (actually constructed) managed to be. What prompted this question is reading an interesting document: https://ir.cwi.nl/pub/9603 (in Dutch), "Principles of

RE: Old newsreader source code

On Wed, 9 May 2018, Rich Alderson via cctalk wrote: From: Seth Morabito Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2018 9:23 AM As an aside: If you were active on Usenet in 1989, what software were you using? 1988-89 is about when I started reading Usenet newsgroups. At first, I used rn under Ultrix (on a VAX

Re: Old newsreader source code

On Wed, May 09, 2018 at 06:52:34PM +, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > > > On 05/09/2018 02:17 PM, Rich Alderson via cctalk wrote: > > From: Seth Morabito > > Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2018 9:23 AM > > > >> As an aside: If you were active on Usenet in 1989, what software were you > >> using?

Re: Sparc Laptops

On Wed, May 09, 2018 at 11:31:24AM -0600, Warner Losh via cctalk wrote: > I have a DEC Pentium 200 Laptop... It appears to be like this hinote >

Re: Old core memory system.

My 360/65 panel has the control panel for Fabri-Tek add-on memory on the left side. http://www.myimagecollection.com/webpics/65panel.jpg