Re: APL\360

On 01/15/2021 07:18 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: One measure I've used is that, out of 40 or so languages I know, with only two have I gone from "no knowledge" to "able to write a substantial program" in one week. One was Pascal (in university -- computer course code generator). I used

Re: APL\360

On 01/15/2021 05:07 PM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: On 1/15/21 3:11 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: It's also worth noting that (ostensibly) the first complete microcomputer system (keyboard, printer, storage) was the MCM/70, using an 8008 implementing APL (not BASIC!). I had to see

Re: APL\360

On Fri, 15 Jan 2021 at 17:50, Liam Proven wrote: > So I resubbed online and now I get it again. providing that warm > comforting sensation of intellects vast and cool, as immeasurably > superior to my own as mine is to that of the transient creatures that > swarm and multiply in a drop of water.

Re: APL\360

> On Jan 15, 2021, at 7:33 PM, Norman Jaffe via cctalk > wrote: > > I have found that the ideal combination of languages to learn early are APL, > Simula, LISP and Smalltalk. > I was lucky enough to have started programming when that was possible. Interesting. My first was ALGOL 60.

Re: APL\360

> On Jan 15, 2021, at 6:41 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk > wrote: > >>> There are some flaws in our educational system. >>> Such as directing learning so rigidly that students are discouraged from >>> exploring. > > On Fri, 15 Jan 2021, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: >> Even worse when they

Re: APL\360

I have found that the ideal combination of languages to learn early are APL, Simula, LISP and Smalltalk. I was lucky enough to have started programming when that was possible. From: "cctalk" To: "cctalk" Sent: Friday, January 15, 2021 4:13:26 PM Subject: Re: APL\360 On 1/15/21 3:07 PM,

Re: APL\360

At least Edsger Dijkstra thought that APL had been "carried through to perfection"! "language of the future" for our programming techniques! creates a new generation of coders"! Oh, wait. Here's the context: "APL is a mistake, carried through to perfection. It is the language of the future

Re: APL\360

On 1/15/21 3:07 PM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > But being an APL programmer does not preclude using all the other > languages.  One need to pick the language suitable for the job. > Back in the days when APL, COBOL, Fortran, ALGOL, etc. were the > norm languages were created domain

Re: APL\360

There are some flaws in our educational system. Such as directing learning so rigidly that students are discouraged from exploring. On Fri, 15 Jan 2021, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: Even worse when they are told specifically to "not waste time" learning things like APL or COBOL. THAT

Re: APL\360

On 1/15/21 6:11 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: As a grad student, I still remember the row of APL terminals at the computer centre with their APL-specific keyboards, always ruing that I had no time to learn it. On Fri, 15 Jan 2021, Toby Thain via cctalk wrote: Seems backwards when students

Re: APL\360

As a grad student, I still remember the row of APL terminals at the computer centre with their APL-specific keyboards, always ruing that I had no time to learn it. On Fri, 15 Jan 2021, Toby Thain via cctalk wrote: Seems backwards when students have no time to learn things. Just sayin There

RE: APL\360

> -Original Message- > From: cctalk On Behalf Of Nemo Nusquam > via cctalk > Sent: 15 January 2021 21:51 > To: Toby Thain ; General Discussion: On-Topic > and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: APL\360 > > On 01/15/21 14:25, Toby Thain wrote: > > On 2021-01-15 1:33 p.m., Nemo Nusquam via

Re: APL\360

On Fri, 15 Jan 2021, Nemo Nusquam via cctalk wrote: As a grad student, I still remember the row of APL terminals at the computer centre with their APL-specific keyboards, always ruing that I had no time to learn it. I guess that I was lucky? At GSFC, I was in an entry level job ("Data

Re: APL\360

On 1/15/21 3:11 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: It's also worth noting that (ostensibly) the first complete microcomputer system (keyboard, printer, storage) was the MCM/70, using an 8008 implementing APL (not BASIC!). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MCM/70 I'll say it again--a programmer who

Re: APL\360

Gavin -- It looks like you have frequents updates of your virtual HP 3000 setup. Is there someplace I can subscribe to learn of updates to your collection? -- Ron Pool On 1/15/21, 11:44 AM, "cctalk on behalf of Gavin Scott via cctalk" wrote: There's also HP's APL\3000 running on your

Re: APL\360

On 01/15/21 14:25, Toby Thain wrote: On 2021-01-15 1:33 p.m., Nemo Nusquam via cctalk wrote: As a grad student, I still remember the row of APL terminals at the computer centre with their APL-specific keyboards, always ruing that I had no time to learn it. Seems backwards when students have

Re: APL\360

It's also worth noting that (ostensibly) the first complete microcomputer system (keyboard, printer, storage) was the MCM/70, using an 8008 implementing APL (not BASIC!). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MCM/70 I'll say it again--a programmer who thinks in APL is very different from one who thinks

Re: APL\360

Thanks for the link. Coincidentally, recently while going through my ancient Calgary printouts, found a few small APL programs I wrote in 1968 or 1969. There was an APL system being trialed at UofCalgary and a group of us had a chance to play around with it for a few hours. It was very

Re: APL\360

On 2021-01-15 1:33 p.m., Nemo Nusquam via cctalk wrote: > As a grad student, I still remember the row of APL terminals at the > computer centre with their APL-specific keyboards, always ruing that I > had no time to learn it. Seems backwards when students have no time to learn things. Just sayin

Re: APL\360

On 01/15/21 11:50, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote (in part): I never understood it but I enjoyed the feeling of baffled incomprehension I got from reading it. As a grad student, I still remember the row of APL terminals at the computer centre with their APL-specific keyboards, always ruing that I

Re: APL\360

On 1/14/21 10:55 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: On Thu, 14 Jan 2021, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: It's a different world from BASIC, for sure. Neil maintained that its strength lay in thinking about things in a non-scalar way.  I'll give him that--programming on STAR, where a scalar was

Re: APL\360

That reminds me of the APL\360 implementation running on the IBM 5100 and 5110 using a rudimental System/360 emulator written in PALM machine code stored in the APL Executable ROS. The APL interpreter is stored in the APL language ROS and was accessed like an I/O device, i.e. the emulator

Re: APL\360

On Fri, 15 Jan 2021 at 17:44, Gavin Scott via cctalk wrote: > > APL is still a going concern in a few places Oh, definitely. I subscribed to the British APL Association's newsletter from an advert in UK magazine PCW in the 1980s and continued to get its publication, _Vector_, for over 20Y.

Re: APL\360

Paul et al, Along with the APL\360 material Len Shustek put together on the CHM web site, there is a site I maintain at CHM hosting documents, papers, books, etc on the history and evolution of APL as well as historic APL source code and implementations:

Re: APL\360

On Fri, 15 Jan 2021 at 17:21, Nemo Nusquam via cctalk wrote: > > In 1999, a fellow student in a UML course worked for a large information > company (Reuters, I think?) and told me that they had embarked on an > expensive s/w conversion project. Their back-end systems were > implemented in APL

Re: APL\360

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 9:05 AM Kevin Jordan via cctalk wrote: > > If you would like to re/experience APL, four classic implementations are > available on five machines running at the Nostalgic Computing Center > : There's also HP's APL\3000 running on your own

Re: APL\360

Norman, Same here, but archived at the CHM Software Preservation site: http://www.softwarepreservation.org/projects/apl If there is anything you have that is missing from the above site I'd love to add it. Please drop me an email. BTW my Dad was one of the first users of the original 2 cassette

Re: APL\360

On 01/14/21 23:35, Mark Linimon via cctalk wrote (in part): When I was living outside Dallas around 1988 or so, I knew a woman who had a job-for-life with an insurance company that ran their whole company on APL. Of course by that time she was sick of working on the same thing all the time,

Re: APL\360

If you would like to re/experience APL, four classic implementations are available on five machines running at the Nostalgic Computing Center : - APL 2 (aka APLUM) on the CDC Cyber 865 and Cyber 175 NOS 2 systems - APLSF on the PDP-10 TOPS-20 system -

Re: APL\360

> On Jan 14, 2021, at 10:55 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk > wrote: > > On Thu, 14 Jan 2021, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: >> It's a different world from BASIC, for sure. >> >> Neil maintained that its strength lay in thinking about things in a >> non-scalar way. I'll give him that--programming