On Mon, Jun 21, 2021, at 12:05 AM, Van Snyder via cctalk wrote:
[snip]
> denizen of the Fortran committees) is a LALR parser generator. I use
> the generator written by Al Shannon when he was Charlie Wetherell's
> student, now updated, which implements David Pager's algorithm that
> generates a p
On Mon, Jun 21, 2021 at 11:14 PM Douglas Taylor via cctalk
wrote:
> Wow, that is very helpful. I had downloaded xterm from
> invisible-island.net and executed a ./configure. I complained that I
> lacked the Athena X widgets, so I paused on it.
I got that. On a RHEL7 box, I did:
$ sudo yum ins
On 6/21/21 10:35 PM, Douglas Taylor via cctalk wrote:
DECterm does allow graphics. I've used it, but can't remember the
details.
:-)
For me the options were:
1. get a real VT340, already have a VT240
I've occasionally wondered about getting a VT340 (or VT4xx / VT5xx).
But then I look at
On 6/21/21 9:33 PM, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote:
I have to admit, I’m watching this with interest. Hopefully I can
see about getting this up and running one of these days.
I too keep an eye out for things XTerm / Sixel (raster?) / ReGIS
(vector) related. I learned about Sixel first, became q
On 6/21/21 6:10 PM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote:
I would love some sample ReGIS files, color or B&W. Anything, really.
Here's the (relatively) simple ReGIS (.rgs) file that I made, modeled
after something I saw on Twitter.
I'm copying and pasting the ReGIS file because it's mostly printabl
On Mon, 2021-06-21 at 20:49 -0700, Daniel Moniz via cctalk wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 21, 2021, at 12:05 AM, Van Snyder via cctalk wrote:
> [snip]
> > denizen of the Fortran committees) is a LALR parser generator. I
> > usethe generator written by Al Shannon when he was Charlie
> > Wetherell'sstudent, no
DECterm does allow graphics. I've used it, but can't remember the details.
For me the options were:
1. get a real VT340, already have a VT240
2. emulation software on a PC
3. DECterm, not a great option, works but if you want to use it remote
the hardware multiplys
4. xterm, this was new to m
On Mon, Jun 21, 2021, at 12:05 AM, Van Snyder via cctalk wrote:
[snip]
> denizen of the Fortran committees) is a LALR parser generator. I use
> the generator written by Al Shannon when he was Charlie Wetherell's
> student, now updated, which implements David Pager's algorithm that
> generates a p
I have to admit, I’m watching this with interest. Hopefully I can see about
getting this up and running one of these days.
I find myself wondering what it would take to build this on a Mac, the current
Mac xterm *SUCKS*!!! On the Mac, I can’t seem to use the custom DEC
keybindings.
Actually
Grant;
Wow, that is very helpful. I had downloaded xterm from
invisible-island.net and executed a ./configure. I complained that I
lacked the Athena X widgets, so I paused on it.
I'm going to give this another try.
I'd like to thank all the kind folks who posted a response to my initial
q
On 6/21/21 4:56 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
> Pascal was done by Wirth, not Dijkstra. The issue with 1620 state is that
> you couldn't do multiprogramming because you could not context switch
> threads. The problem is the subroutine call; BB (subroutine returns) uses an
> invisible register.
BB i
On Mon, 2021-06-21 at 18:55 -0500, Gavin Scott via cctalk wrote:
> Oh yeah, that was like 12 years ago? I believe they had gotten the
> 1620 CADET (“Can't Add, Doesn't Even Try”) running
One of my colleagues, about fifty years ago, wanted to use the 1620 for
telemetry processing. So he replaced th
On Mon, Jun 21, 2021 at 4:12 PM Grant Taylor via cctalk
wrote:
> On 6/21/21 1:07 AM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote:
> > I'm not the OP, but I'm interested in fiddling with ReGIS a little.
> > I just pulled out my VS240 and fired it up. Right now, I have a
> > VR201 on it, but I also have a VR241 f
> On Jun 21, 2021, at 6:03 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
>
> On 6/21/21 1:13 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
>>
>> The reason Dijkstra maligned the 1620 is not because of its lack of
>> registers but because of its lack of interrupts and inability to save the
>> full execution state.
>
> Somewhere I've go
On Mon, Jun 21, 2021 at 1:43 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk
wrote:
> For some (jprobably hallucinatory) reason, I thought there was a project
> at CHM to replace the 1620 core stack with semiconductor memory. Guess
> that never happened.
Oh yeah, that was like 12 years ago? I believe they had gotten
On 6/21/2021 4:00 PM, Van Snyder via cctalk wrote:
I was once told that the most valuable guy in a Honeywell 6080 Multics
shop was the plumber.
No water cooling.
On 6/21/21 4:04 PM, Van Snyder via cctalk wrote:
> On Mon, 2021-06-21 at 15:03 -0700, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
>> But then Dijkstra
>> should talk--how about the wonderful I/O capabilities of the first
>> version of Pascal?
>
> Pascal was developed by one of Niklaus Wirth's students.
I stand
On Mon, 2021-06-21 at 15:03 -0700, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
> But then Dijkstra
> should talk--how about the wonderful I/O capabilities of the first
> version of Pascal?
Pascal was developed by one of Niklaus Wirth's students.
On Mon, 2021-06-21 at 17:47 -0400, Rich Alderson via cctalk wrote:
> > Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2021 22:19:02 -0600From: ben via cctalk <
> > cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> > LISP still can't be compiled.
>
> May I respectfully suggest that you don't know WTF you're talking
> about?
> LISP compilers have exist
On Mon, 2021-06-21 at 17:26 -0400, William Donzelli via cctalk wrote:
> > Of course, nowadays, the old R22 systems are being refilled with
> > purified propane, called R290. Cheap, with better thermal properties
> > than R22, but probably not legal when LCM picked up the 6500.
>
> When cleaning o
> Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2021 16:02:20 -0400
> From: Paul Koning via cctalk
>> On Jun 21, 2021, at 3:52 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
>> On 6/21/21 11:53 AM, Paul Koning wrote:
>>> Perhaps you were thinking about the CDC 6500 at the late lamented LCM?
>>> That got some replacement stacks, which was an int
On 6/21/21 2:47 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
>>> Is Fortran the newer version of FORTRAN ( I II IV )?
>
> On Mon, 21 Jun 2021, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
>> My recollection from X3J3 is that "Fortran" was officially endorsed with
>> F90. F77 still has FORTRAN officially.
>
> After "FORTRA
> When cleaning out a 3rd party CDC dealer quite a few years back, he
> remarked that the CDC machines going way back all the way to the 800s
> were fantastically unpicky about how they were cooled.
So I just reread what I wrote, and see it is crap. What I meant is
that CDC machines going back all
On 6/21/21 1:13 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
>
> The reason Dijkstra maligned the 1620 is not because of its lack of registers
> but because of its lack of interrupts and inability to save the full
> execution state.
Somewhere I've got the Dijkstra paper. The 1710 version of the 1620 did
have interr
> On Jun 21, 2021, at 4:47 PM, Rich Alderson via cctalk
> wrote:
>
>> Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2021 22:19:02 -0600
>> From: ben via cctalk
>
>> LISP still can't be compiled.
>
> May I respectfully suggest that you don't know WTF you're talking about?
I’ll save you some time and trouble, because I
> Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2021 22:19:02 -0600
> From: ben via cctalk
> LISP still can't be compiled.
May I respectfully suggest that you don't know WTF you're talking about?
LISP compilers have existed for decades. One of the *early* MIT AI Lab papers
by Guy Steele is a comparison of the compiler fo
Is Fortran the newer version of FORTRAN ( I II IV )?
On Mon, 21 Jun 2021, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
My recollection from X3J3 is that "Fortran" was officially endorsed with
F90. F77 still has FORTRAN officially.
After "FORTRAN 77", but before "Fortran 90", "Fortran 8X"
(DOD extensions st
> Of course, nowadays, the old R22 systems are being refilled with
> purified propane, called R290. Cheap, with better thermal properties
> than R22, but probably not legal when LCM picked up the 6500.
When cleaning out a 3rd party CDC dealer quite a few years back, he
remarked that the CDC machi
On 6/21/21 1:02 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
> Some vague memory says Purdue. LCM actually got it running, which was an
> interesting problem. It required recreating the inter-chassis cables (since
> the original ones were cut as part of dismantling the machine) and restoring
> the cooling system.
On Mon, 2021-06-21 at 16:13 -0400, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
> The registers may actually be implemented as memory (PDP-6 and PDP-10
> without the "fast registers" feature), and perhaps the Philips PR8000
> which had 8 sets of 8 registers, one per interrupt level.
> Independently, registers m
> On Jun 21, 2021, at 11:26 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk
> wrote:
>
> On 6/21/21 1:39 AM, ben via cctalk wrote:
>
>> I have 'borrowed' copy of the Green dragon book.
>> The book promotes code generation for a multi register machine. PDP 11,
>> PDP 10, IBM 360. "(C) Bell Labs 1979 " I think is
On 6/21/21 1:07 AM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote:
I'm not the OP, but I'm interested in fiddling with ReGIS a little.
I just pulled out my VS240 and fired it up. Right now, I have a
VR201 on it, but I also have a VR241 for it as well.
Nice.
Let me know if you would like some sample ReGIS fil
> On Jun 21, 2021, at 3:52 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
>
> On 6/21/21 11:53 AM, Paul Koning wrote:
>
>> Perhaps you were thinking about the CDC 6500 at the late lamented LCM? That
>> got some replacement stacks, which was an interesting puzzle because the
>> read data connection out of the memo
On 6/21/21 11:53 AM, Paul Koning wrote:
> Perhaps you were thinking about the CDC 6500 at the late lamented LCM? That
> got some replacement stacks, which was an interesting puzzle because the read
> data connection out of the memory modules is a differential analog signal
> carrying the sense
On 2021-06-21 13:12, Antonio Carlini via cctalk wrote:
> I did find one seemingly untouched image of a VT100 with green text:
> https://vistapointe.net/cliparts/getsecond. That does appear to be a
> VT100 (not a VT102/VT103 etc) and is green.
We had some like that, but upgraded with a Selenar (?)
> On Jun 21, 2021, at 2:43 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk
> wrote:
>
> On 6/21/21 10:55 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
>>
> memory. Nobody explained why that was a real problem.
>>
>> Core memory is fairly sensitive to temperature. In the case of the 1620,
>> there is a heating system that
> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk On Behalf Of Chuck Guzis via
> cctalk
> Sent: 21 June 2021 19:43
> To: Paul Koning via cctalk
> Subject: Re: IBM 1620; was: Early Programming Books
>
> On 6/21/21 10:55 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
> >
> memory. Nobody explained why that was a
On 6/21/21 10:55 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
>
memory. Nobody explained why that was a real problem.
>
> Core memory is fairly sensitive to temperature. In the case of the 1620,
> there is a heating system that brings the core memory box up to its operating
> temperature, which is why it
> On Jun 21, 2021, at 1:53 PM, Van Snyder via cctalk
> wrote:
>
> On Mon, 2021-06-21 at 06:02 -0700, jim stephens via cctalk wrote:
>> That 1620 would have been a fantastic addition to their running
>> display. Much easier to work on than what it sounds like the 1401 is.
>> And with a dup
On Mon, 2021-06-21 at 06:02 -0700, jim stephens via cctalk wrote:
> That 1620 would have been a fantastic addition to their running
> display. Much easier to work on than what it sounds like the 1401 is.
> And with a duplicate backup.
CHM has a 1620 that was running for a while. IIRC, somebody
This is funny, as everyone (me too) weighs in with their description of the
elephant.
My recollection (also from recent observation of a VT278):
- case main: very light cream, somehow with a touch of grey, but not
pure white
- case insets: very dark brown
Remember, it was the 70
On Mon, 2021-06-21 at 08:26 -0700, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
> Sigh. It's a shame that absolute (machine language) coding isn't taught
> anymore. The 1620 (and probably other IBM hardware) even had coding
> forms for it--pencil-and-paper assembly coding. My recollection is
> that the absol
On Mon, 2021-06-21 at 02:39 -0600, ben via cctalk wrote:
> Is Fortran the newer version of FORTRAN ( I II IV )?
The "newer" version of Fortran is Fortran 2018. The working draft for
the next standard is https://j3-fortran.org/doc/year/21/21-007.pdf.
ISO Standard versions:
ISO R 1539-1972
Many replies. Thank you all!
I have 3D printed Michael Gardi's VT100 model, and I'll try to find some
pleasing colors for painting it.
https://hackaday.io/project/177596-23-scale-vt100-terminal-reproduction
On 21/06/2021 17:10, Antonio Carlini wrote:
On 21/06/2021 15:39, Paul Koning wrote:
You're thinking of the VT200, which came in three colors, although at
DEC fortunately they never inflicted green on us :-). But all the
earlier DEC video terminals (VT05, VT50/52/61t/62, VT20, VT71) were
whi
On 21/06/2021 15:39, Paul Koning wrote:
You're thinking of the VT200, which came in three colors, although at DEC
fortunately they never inflicted green on us :-). But all the earlier DEC
video terminals (VT05, VT50/52/61t/62, VT20, VT71) were white. The only
exception I can think of is the
I recall the color was "Putty". Best way to find out is open one and see
what the plastic looks like on the inside. All VT100's I used had the
same while phosphor color as the VT52.
Now for real fun, what was the original color of a VT52?
Chris
On 6/21/21 1:39 AM, ben via cctalk wrote:
> I have 'borrowed' copy of the Green dragon book.
> The book promotes code generation for a multi register machine. PDP 11,
> PDP 10, IBM 360. "(C) Bell Labs 1979 " I think is big hint here.
>
> The machine model I am looking at is a single accumulator d
Since the question was asked "where do I find those CWI (MC) reports?"... CWI
has a document search, but they don't make it easy to find.
Here it is: https://ir.cwi.nl -- I haven't explored all the things it can look
for, but it definitely can find documents by words of the title, or by author
It's the same white as the pdp 8a, or rl02 new.
On Mon, Jun 21, 2021 at 10:42 AM Magnus Ringman via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> A guess, but a confident one: the white part of the VT100 casing would
> originally have been the same white as the VAX11 metal cabinets were
> painted in.
A guess, but a confident one: the white part of the VT100 casing would
originally have been the same white as the VAX11 metal cabinets were
painted in.
Look at promotional brochures from the era that include a VAX and a
terminal.
The color might well be a FED-STD-595 one, and/or a very similar Pant
> On Jun 21, 2021, at 9:48 AM, Antonio Carlini via cctalk
> wrote:
>
> ...
> I can't get t mine either but I think they were originally light cream, but
> not bright white.
That sounds right.
> ...
> I remember the tube colour being green, I think I remember seeing amber and I
> believe t
> On Jun 21, 2021, at 5:03 AM, Paul Birkel via cctalk
> wrote:
>
> Well, utility depends on the objective. One that immediately springs to mind
> in an era when "computing" had a dearth of practitioners would be to inform
> various audiences "what is involved".
>
> The Dekker (1957) refer
> On Jun 21, 2021, at 5:23 AM, ben via cctalk wrote:
>
> ...
> I want to transformatiom before full parsing expressions, as a text process.
> string "a+(b+c)*c" becomes "((b+c)*c)a+".
As an academic exercise that's pretty trivial. But why would you want to do
that? Apparently some people t
> On 21 Jun 2021, at 14:48, Antonio Carlini via cctalk
> wrote:
>
> On 21/06/2021 07:51, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote:
>> I want to say that it’s white. Though I can’t get to mine right now.
>>
>> Zane
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPod
>>
>>> On Jun 20, 2021, at 10:50 PM, Lars Brinkhoff via ccta
> On Jun 21, 2021, at 6:48 AM, Antonio Carlini via cctalk
> wrote:
>
>> On 21/06/2021 07:51, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote:
>> I want to say that it’s white. Though I can’t get to mine right now.
>>
>> Zane
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPod
>>
>>> On Jun 20, 2021, at 10:50 PM, Lars Brinkhoff via c
On Mon, 21 Jun 2021 at 07:50, Lars Brinkhoff via cctalk
wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> Does anyone know what colors a VT100 is? Most photos online has it
> looking yellowish, but I expect that's from aging. Some people I have
> asked claim it was a light cream color. This bitsavers picture has it
> look
On 21/06/2021 07:51, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote:
I want to say that it’s white. Though I can’t get to mine right now.
Zane
Sent from my iPod
On Jun 20, 2021, at 10:50 PM, Lars Brinkhoff via cctalk
wrote:
Hello,
Does anyone know what colors a VT100 is? Most photos online has it
looking
Well, utility depends on the objective. One that immediately springs to mind
in an era when "computing" had a dearth of practitioners would be to inform
various audiences "what is involved".
The Dekker (1957) reference seems to be targeted at an audience interested in
expressing mathematical s
> On Jun 21, 2021, at 12:19 AM, ben via cctalk wrote:
>
> On 2021-06-20 9:01 p.m., Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote:
>> On 2021-Jun-20, at 7:38 PM, ben via cctech wrote:
>>> On 2021-06-20 8:13 p.m., Toby Thain via cctech wrote:
>>>
Tried the Shunting Yard algorithm? But watch out, it was i
On 6/21/2021 1:43 AM, ben via cctalk wrote:
But with all this computing science, they have yet to make a clean
meta compiler like Meta II, or Tree meta.
The compiler structure used in Pick is pretty much like this.
XPL by William M. McKeeman and others which Microdata used to create the M
On 6/21/2021 12:17 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
It's been over 50 years since I last did this, so I may have gotten
something wrong in my wetware. But you get the general idea.
The University of Southwestern Louisiana had a running (actually two
CPUs) and a reader punch and printer tha
If you bring up the Android (maybe apple, too) translate and engage the
camera icon an aim it at the screen, you can peruse it as well. It would
be cool to find some utility to break up the PDF if the OCR is accurate
enough and re-assemble it in some fashion similar to the auto camera
translati
On 2021-06-21 2:35 a.m., Peter Corlett via cctalk wrote:
Code-generation is a whole different can of worms and unlike the
well-trodden path of parsing, is still not a solved problem in computer
science. All of the compiler textbooks I've checked, including the infamous
Dragon book, handwave code
Google document translate gives a modestly useful result after OCRing the UT
original scan (www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/MCReps/CR1957-009.PDF). Needs
significant further work for readability :-<.
Deeker, et al. appear to approach the topic from the perspective of
mathematics (that is, modestly ab
On 2021-06-21 1:05 a.m., Van Snyder via cctalk wrote:
When I was teaching compiler classes, I liked Richard J. Le Blanc's
"Crafting a Compiler." I used Waite and Goos once. It was precise but a
bit too terse for the students. The compiler structure I taught was
based upon work of Frank de Remer
On 2021-06-21 12:06 a.m., Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
Some may find this paper interesting on the FORTRAN I compiler:
https://www.cs.fsu.edu/~lacher/courses/COT4401/notes/cise_v2_i1/fortran.pdf
I will add that the diagnostic error messages for FORTRAN I were pretty
good for the time. Missing
On Sun, Jun 20, 2021 at 08:06:26PM -0600, ben via cctalk wrote:
[...]
> My latest gripe, is I still am looking for a algorithm to generate code
> for a single accumulator machine for an arithmetic expression. Parenthesis
> need to evaluated first and temporary variables allotted, thus a two pass
>
Thank you for the references Paul.
Found it at: www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/MCReps/CR1957-009.PDF
Also found "Course on programming in ALGOL 60 (11th Edition)" (1970):
https://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/MCReps/CR1970-013.PDF
Now I need to translate them from Dutch. Perhaps there already exis
Thank you Michael, for both the pointer and the scan :-}.
From: Michael Mulhern [mailto:mich...@jongleur.co.uk]
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 11:22 PM
To: Paul Birkel; General Discussion: On-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Early Programming Books
I recently scanned my copy of "Electronic Computers:
Sounds very promising, thank you for the tip.
-Original Message-
From: dave.g4...@gmail.com [mailto:dave.g4...@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 4:01 PM
To: 'Paul Birkel'; 'General Discussion: On-Topic Posts'
Subject: RE: Early Programming Books
Paul,
What about
Approximations fo
Thanks Bill. Presume that you mean “Giant Brains, or Machines that Think”
(1949)? Conveniently scanned and online:
https://monoskop.org/images/b/bc/Berkeley_Edmund_Callis_Giant_Brains_or_Machines_That_Think.pdf
From: Bill Degnan [mailto:billdeg...@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 202
On 6/20/21 11:48 PM, Van Snyder via cctalk wrote:
> You also might like
> https://www.cs.sjsu.edu/~mak/CMPE152/IBM1401FORTRANCompiler.pdf "Serial
> Compilation and the IBM 1401 FORTRAN Compiler."
> 1401-FO-050 was more than FORTRAN I but less than FORTRAN II.
> The innovation was interesting
On Mon, Jun 21, 2021 at 2:47 AM Grant Taylor via cctalk
wrote:
> On 6/18/21 5:50 PM, Wayne S via cctech wrote:
> > We didn't really need Regis graphics so we never tested that out.
>
> I'm not sure what the OP's use case is, but if they / you are wanting
> ReGIS (or Sixel) graphics, XTerm supports
On Sun, 2021-06-20 at 23:13 -0700, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
> In an earlier message, I referred to the Aho et al. "Dragon Book" and
> then incorrectly cited the 1986 "Red Dragon Book". My reference was
> the 1977 "Green Dragon Book", also by Aho et al, but carrying the title
> of "Principles
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