Mike Katz wrote:
> I want to add to this argument and ask Is bit 0 the high order bit
> (like on the PDP-8) or the low order bit (like on the 6809)?
It's the same across all PDPs... except maybe the 11, I'm sure someone
will remind me.
There are good arguments for numbering "bit N" such that its
Phil Budne wrote:
> I wrote and tuned the code twenty years ago, but haven't looked at
> whether better results might be possible by wasting the capabilities
> of current systems (SIMD libaries and/or multiple cores). I felt like
> I only was able to give a slim impression, and I've also wondered
Paul Koning wrote:
> Suppose you had schematics of, say, a KA-10. You could turn those
> gates into VHDL or Verilog, and that should deliver an exact replica
> of the original machine, bug for bug compatible. That assumes the
> timing quirks are manageable
The mapping from asynchronous pulses,
CAREY SCHUG wrote:
> What I wish somebody would create is an S-100 card (probably with a
> raspberry pie daughter running simulation for future upgradeability)
> that, initially emulates a complete Byte-8 or Imsai computer including
> memory and disk images on sdc cards, 24x40 display on an HDMI
jos wrote:
>> I don't recall emulators for the early Datapoints.-
> There now is a Datapoint 2200 emulator
> Be aware that it does not show the true Datapoint fonts.
There is also an emulator for the 3300, with a font from an
imaged ROM. It's in here: https://github.com/aap/vt05/
(The 3300 is
Paul Koning wrote:
> Pascal is still around; the GCC compiler suite has it, and Modula-2 as
> well.
Speaking of which, GCC (or its first attempt) came from a Pascal
compiler called Pastel.
Paul Koning wrote:
> Even then it increments by 2, by special exception. So 112700, 1
> (movb #1,r0) fetches the instruction and increments PC by 2, then
> fetches the word where the PC points and increments by 2, not 1,
> again.
It's not really a special exception because immediate mode is
Adam Thornton wrote:
> I finally got an Emacs running on v7--it's on misspiggy at LCML now as
> "ue". It's Microemacs 3.6
As far as I know, the first Emacs on a PDP-11 was written by MIT alumnus
Warren Montgomery at Bell labs.
> I don't know if this is what you heard about, but Fred Fish wrote an
> Emacs that ran on top of TECO-11.
Another similar thing:
https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/decus/110737.html
Adam Thornton via cctalk writes:
> I have heard rumors of one "fredmacs" which is a more-or-less emacs that
> will run on PDP-11 v7 Unix.
I don't know if this is what you heard about, but Fred Fish wrote an
Emacs that ran on top of TECO-11.
geneb wrote:
> Patrick Finnegan wrote:
>> It seems like all of the good USENET providers are subscription
>> services now.
> You can get free access via http://www.eternal-september.org/
There's also news.dotsrc.org. (formerly sunsite.dk)
Eric Moore wrote:
> Here is a hello world:
> (format t "Hello, World!")
> It kinda works, need to throw maybe a \n on it, no idea what options format
> takes.
Do it like this:
(format t "~, World!~%")
Looks like Common Lisp documentation works for the System 100 FORMAT:
Paul Koning wrote:
> I noticed the section on deferred interrupts, which mentions Cutler
> and "fork" on RSX. It doesn't mention the similar mechanism, also
> called fork, in RT-11.
And, pray tell, what do these "fork" mean?
I'm curious since Unix has fork as a verb, whereas Tenex has it as a
Steve Lewis wrote:
> I always considered a mainframe to basically be a "fully decked out"
> minicomputer.
You may find people will disagree with that. I'm not sure what
mainframe means either, but I'm asking around. Pysical size, I/O
capacity, CPU offload to front ends, and users served seem to
Fred Cisin wrote:
> So, what defines a "supercomputer"?
FLOPS
> Need to get rid of some things here that I am never going to use,
> maybe someone else will:
>
> M7705
> M7706
> M7906
> M7907
> M7908
I think I heard a VAXstation 100 owner missing an M7452. Any spares?
Hello,
Some Sun 1/4" tapes with NeWS has turned up in the SF Bay area.
However, the the tape drive available has bad rubber baby buggy bumpers.
Is there anyone around there who can provide new bumpers, or has a
working 1/4" tape drive and is willing to read the tapes?
Best regards,
Lars
Tarek Hoteit wrote:
> I still don’t know who runs [SDF]
Stephen M. Jones.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SDF_Public_Access_Unix_System#History
https://archive.org/details/bbs-20030526-sdf
https://ia600903.us.archive.org/22/items/bsdtalk021/bsdtalk021.mp3
Paul Flo Williams wrote:
> During lockdown I was having some fun redrawing old DEC manual covers
> with Inkscape, specifically terminal and printer manuals from the late
> 1970s. I've attached a montage of four that I printed out so I could
> stick it on the wall. I'm aware I may be the only
Mark Huffstutter via cctalk writes:
> Christian Corti wrote:
>> Interesting, but not really a beauty ;-) And BTW, who is SDF? They
>> don't tell it on their site.
> Short story on the welcome page.
Long story: https://archive.org/details/bbs-20030526-sdf
Jake Utley wrote:
> Sellam Abraham
>> "A new PDP-10 has been put in the INTERNET."
>> "New" as in newly-built? Or "new" as in wasn't there before?
>> The hardware looks modern, and not at all like what a PDP-10 should look
>> like.
>
> I would say it is newly built as the pcb substrate looks
Paul Koning wrote:
> Given 16 bit wide ROMs, I would expect the microcode width to be
> rounded up to a multiple of that, so 64 bits, which means the expected
> ROM size is 64k bits. That matches two of the ROMs you mentioned.
I don't know if they are 16 bits wide. The two 68000 ROMs are 8 bit
Hello,
I could use some help making sense of the VAXstation ROM images.
A set is provided here: https://www.9track.net/roms/
The two .bin files are each one halfword of a 16-bit wide ROM for the
68000 display processor. I checked it, and it's fine.
My problem is with the Bit Blit Accelator.
Grant Taylor wrote:
> I'm not that surprised that soft fonts are (re)using Sixel.
Maybe the other way around. I don't really know what the timeline was,
but it seems to me maybe soft fonts came first, with the VT220. The
VT240 had sixel graphics, right? But I'm guessing it came later. As
Grant Taylor wrote:
>> https://github.com/larsbrinkhoff/sixel
> The naming of the git repository confused me a bit. I needed more
> coffee and time to realize that this is more about soft fonts (the
> thread subject) than it is about Sixel graphics.
It started with an idea about sixel graphics,
David Griffith wrote:
> I'm trying to figure out how to created and load a "soft character
> set" into a vt220 terminal.
I have successfully done that with a real VT220. Here are some .txt
files with samples. They upload a custom font and arrange characters on
screen to display a picture. The
Chris Zach wrote:
> All that said, if I have to drive out to Seattle with a U-Haul I'll do
> it. Again. But I would prefer them to be displayed, taken care of,
> loved.
AI is available right now from here:
ssh i...@tty.livingcomputers.org
It's running under the name LC ITS now, but it's the
Paul McJones posted this recently:
https://mcjones.org/CalTSS/
There aren't a lot of machine readable media, but many listings:
https://mcjones.org/CalTSS/source/
Paul Koning wrote:
> When I did some looking it appeared to me that essentially all of
> what's online is simulators, not real machines.
That's right, but at least ITS is running on a real PDP-10 now.
Jan-Benedict Glaw wrote:
>> My idea is to make a VS100 emulator and have it run the firmware
>> uploaded by early X versions.
>
> What kind of emulator are you planing? A completely new thing? Or do
> you want to use SIMH as a basis?
It's just a vague idea. It's much too early to say I have any
Matt Burke wrote:
> I dumped the ROMs from my VAXstation 100 some time ago (along with many
> other DEC devices):
>
> http://www.9track.net/roms/
>
> 23-288E4.bin and 23-289E4.bin are probably the two main ones you are
> looking for. Do you just need the ROMs or are you looking for technical
>
Lee Gleason wrote:
> I gave my VAXstation 100 system unit to Dave McGuire last year (I
> didn't need it since I lost interest in UNIBUS sized hobby equipment).
> Perhaps he could make a copy of its ROMs.
Thanks! I asked, and he said he's willing to dump the ROM.
Grant Taylor wrote:
> My understanding is that 4.3BSD that ran on VAXes had support for NCP.
4.3BSD released in 1986 was long after ARPANET switched from NCP to
TCP/IP. Apparently early TCP/IP support was added to 4.1a in 1981.
I'm going out on a limb to claim BSD never had NCP support.
Grant Taylor wrote:
> I think of Tymnet as a service and not as much as a protocol. Though
> maybe it implies a protocol and I'm unaware of it.
Tymshare was a service, but the computers talked to each over over a
vast network. The network was spun off as a separate business. There
is code
Cameron Kaiser wrote:
> If we're going to do Tymnet, we should definitely do Telenet.
Telenet is BBN's commercial network based on their IMP technology,
right? How would you go about making a Telenet network?
Warner Losh wrote:
> NCP was the forerunner of TCP/IP. Net Unix had it as its supported
> protocol and that was old enough that BSD had at least one
> implementation.
Are you saying there's a BSD Unix with Arpanet NCP? If so, where?
Grant Taylor wrote:
> I find myself interested in (at least) the following and would like to
> find others with similar (dis)interests to chat about things.
>
> - 10Base5 / 10Base2 / 10BaseT
> - ISDN
> - DSL / ADSL / SDSL / HDSL
> - T1 / E1
> - ATM
> - Frame Relay
> - ARCnet
> - PSTN / PBX
Noel Chiappa wrote:
> I have been told that at one point Google was 'downgrading' results
> that used plain HTTP, instead of HTTPS, because they were trying to
> push people to switch to HTTPS (this was when everyone was
> hyperventilating over the Snowden revelations). Given the
> near-ubiquitous
Noel Chiappa wrote:
> https://walden-family.com/impcode/imp-code.pdf
> Someone's already done the specialist OCR to deal with faded program
> listings.
I tried to contact the author about converting some of the other IMP
listings, but got no reply.
Michael Kerpan wrote:
> (See the sad fate of the Living Computer Museum, which was killed by
> its new owners as soon as COVID gave them an excuse to do so)
It's not killed. It's still there, but not open to the public. They
continue to offer remote access to vintage systems. Some are now
Some ARPANET hosts were running SCOPE. Is there any ARPANET software
that has been preserved?
Bob Smith via cctalk writes:
> I am hoping someone here knows Richard Cornwell, driving force behind
> KL10B SimH and associated forks.
Yes, I do. I would suggest you contact Richard directly, either by
posting an issue to his GitHub repository, or by email.
https://github.com/rcornwell/sims/
> Does anyone have a (set of) ROM image(s) for the VAXstation 100?
> It might be interesting to attempt an emulator.
I think the machine has some historical interest. Barbara Liskov's CLU
group received a number of VS100 terminals for their VAX. This prompted
Bob Scheifler to create X. CLU
Hello,
Does anyone have a (set of) ROM image(s) for the VAXstation 100?
It might be interesting to attempt an emulator.
> I found files for Barnara Liskov's programming language CLU on PDP-10
Sorry, it's BARBARA Liskov.
Hello,
I found files for Barnara Liskov's programming language CLU on PDP-10
backup tapes. MIT has made them available here:
https://github.com/MITDDC/clu-1976-1989
See also: http://pmg.csail.mit.edu/CLU.html
Fred Cisin wrote:
> If "drugs, sex, and rock'n'roll" is not the answer,
> then you are asking the wrong question.
I'm not very interested in drugs or rock'n'roll, but I would very much
like to see the software for the UCLA Simgma-7!
Al Kossow wrote:
> There has been some work going on emulating early Laserwriters in MAME
Maybe an emulator for Xerox's XGP could be piggybacked onto that. The
"firmware" is PDP-11 or PDP-6 code from MIT and SAIL. It could be used
to print classical memos written in PUB, TeX, TJ6, Scribe,
>>> Bill Gunshannon wrote:
What would you use it for if everything is shut down?
LCM isn't completely shut down.
Zane Healy wrote:
> I can’t speak for that, but the VAX 7000 is still online. Someone is
> obviously paying the electric bills at a minimum, as that’s got to
> chew through some
Chris Zach wrote:
> Anyone know if the LCM will be open this summer? I'm going to be in
> Seattle for a day in August, wouldn't mind stopping by and seeing how
> it was doing
Still closed for on site visitors:
https://livingcomputers.org/Closure.aspx
But they haven't shut down all
Steve Malikoff wrote:
> Douglas said
>> Someone already did this with a TEK4010 emulation: See
>> https://github.com/rricharz/Tek4010
>> Hmmm... You could use a Raspberry Pi to emulate a number of terminals.
>
> Interesting that that emulator covers the ARDS.
I collected some notes about ARDS as
Many replies. Thank you all!
I have 3D printed Michael Gardi's VT100 model, and I'll try to find some
pleasing colors for painting it.
https://hackaday.io/project/177596-23-scale-vt100-terminal-reproduction
Hello,
Does anyone know what colors a VT100 is? Most photos online has it
looking yellowish, but I expect that's from aging. Some people I have
asked claim it was a light cream color. This bitsavers picture has it
looking neutral grey:
Chris Zach wrote:
> The switches are still set, so we should be able to figure out which
> system it came from if anyone still had the documentation on that
> thing.
These are the Chaosnet addresses of the four KS10 ITS machines:
AI 3130
MC 3131
MD 3132
ML 3133
Chris Zach wrote:
> That is good news. Ok, hopefully it will be open by August in which
> case I'll drop by and see which CHAOSNet card it has.
It may have been removed when we worked on getting ITS booted.
Chris Zach wrote:
> She's lonely. And although I have been looking after her for a long
> time, she needs help.
I think you did well. AI got a few more logins, and let's hope there
will be more in the future.
Bill Degnan wrote:
> I already let Lars know, but if anyone wants to see what I came up with:
> https://www.vintagecomputer.net/temp/VT102/
Thank you very much! This is interesting because it shows VT100 dot
stretching is done first, and other attributes on top of that. The
VT220 does character
Peter Coghlan wrote:
> Would a photograph of a VT220 be any use?
Thanks, but no. I already have one myself.
Hello,
Is there anyone with a VT100 (or any VT1xx, if so please specify which)
that can make a photo displaying text in reverse video? I'm making a
detailed simulation of the VT100 hardware, and I'd like to see what, if
any, effect dot streching has. I searched the "VT100 Technical Manual",
but
Ethan Dicks wrote:
>> There are also at least two GT40 implementations of Spacewar.
>
> Is there a web page I could check that would include the hardware
> requirements? I don't have a GT40, but I have a VT11 (4-slot
> backplane and cards) and an assortment of Unibus PDP-11 processors
> (11/04 or
There are also at least two GT40 implementations of Spacewar. One from
MIT, by Dick Waters, and another from SAIL, by Bo Eross. They run fine
on SIMH, but it would be nice to see them on real hardware too.
Mattis Lind wrote:
> Today I finally got the SPACEWAR version for PDP-11/10 running again
> on my PDP-11/05 with AR11 board.
Congratulations! It's great to watch your video.
> But the lines mostly confused the OCR process so a lot of errors was
> introduced. It turned out that it was easier to
Michael Thompson wrote:
> Kyle Owen wrote:
>> What systems took advantage of the bidirectional nature?
>
> ADSS on the PDP-9 does an interleave of 6 when reading/writing to the
> DECtape. If it runs off the end it reverses direction and keeps going.
MIT's MACDMP (and by extension, ITS) does this
Don Stalkowski wrote:
> For what it's worth I've posted some notes on PDP-10 I/O from a course
> taught by Mike Bennett at UWO in the early 1970s.
Thank you!
Interesting to see the DECtape file structure format.
Tony Aiuto wrote:
> It's a buffer overrun. sixbit_to_ascii writes 7 bytes. The extension was
> declared as 4. Changing to 7 is required.
Thanks, good catch!
Jim Carpenter wrote:
> If it makes you feel any better, I can't figure out how to get back10
> to extract all files. :) I have to give the file names to extract.
It does have some quirk. The names are matched exactly, or as regexp.
I think an '' empty string works, or maybe '.*'. And it's best
The tapes are now hosted here:
http://vtda.org/bits/software/DEC/PDP-10/tymshare/
Jim Carpenter wrote:
> Tony Aiuto wrote:
>> I think that is an artifact of the files being created with the wrong
>> names. For example, with tape 169249, after you skip the UFDs, tito
>> -t prints
>>
>>(SYS).SHR1977-01-26 22:22 [1,4]
>> [...]
>>
>> All the file names are
Tony Aiuto wrote:
>> I'm not sure what to do with the file checksum yet.
> That is useful to verify that we reassembled the pieces correctly.
I phrased that poorly.
What I meant was the checksum that is stored on the tape along with each
file. Or at least that's what the documentation says.
Tony Aiuto wrote:
>> What problem do you have with my tito tool?
>
> $ ./tito -x -f 169249.tape
> fopen: Is a directory
This appears to be because creating an output file was attempted, but
there was already a directory there with the same name. I'm updating
the program to print better error
Tony Aiuto wrote:
> that gets lots of files with names like 'dsk:[1,4]specdf525].mic'
> That just seems wrong.
Correct, back10 does get some things wrong. It also puts some data at
the beginning of files which should be part of the file header. TITO
uses the "*FAILSAFE" magic number which fools
Hello,
Someone sent me these magtape images from Tymshare and said "they fell
off the back of a truck on route 62 in Hudson, MASS." I don't know
their provenance.
Sorry, I don't have any good hosting. For now they are here:
https://gitlab.com/larsbrinkhoff/tymshare
The download.sh script will
Toby Thain wrote:
> Rich Alderson wrote:
>> You could ask our friends Keith Perez (Massbus Disk Emulator v1) and
>> Bruce Sherry (MDE v2) about it, or even ask me. ... produced, and
>> we had to do something. My brilliant friend Keith sat down with a
>> logic analyzer and an RP06 attached to a
Rich Alderson wrote:
> As for operating system support, the only DEC operating system which
> could put tapes and disks on the same Massbus was TOPS-20. Tops-10
> explicitly tells you in the SYSGEN process that disks and tapes must
> reside on different channels; I believe that ITS follows that
> I heard back from Fred Wright:
>
> "Although I wasn't at SC in 1972, I'm pretty sure I would have heard of
> the SC-4 if it had ever existed. The document you linked was just a
> proposal, and I imagine that that's as far as it ever got. AFAIK, SC
> didn't create any full-fledged
Phil Budne wrote:
> From: Lyle Bickley via cctalk
>>
>> I contacted Peter Samson regarding a "SC-4" and this was his response:
>> "There was an SC-40 (made after my time there) which was a fast
>> PDP-10-compatible system. I don’t know of any SC-4 though."
>
> The document that raised the
Lyle Bickley wrote:
> I contacted Peter Samson regarding a "SC-4" and this was his response:
>
> "There was an SC-40 (made after my time there) which was a fast
> PDP-10-compatible system. I don’t know of any SC-4 though."
Thanks for asking! I'm turning next to Fred Wright, another former
Noel Chiappa wrote:
> One oddity: the cover letter is dated 1972, but it talks of "the main
> G.E. computer". GE's computer business was sold to Honeywell in 1970,
> though?
The letter was directed to Project MAC. I suppose that main computer
could be the GE-645 on which Multics was developed?
Lars Brinkhoff wrote:
>
> Anyone ever heard of the Systems Concepts SC-4 computer?
>
> "This is an two's-complement 18-bit machine, with 16 general registers
> and a 16 level priority interrupt system. Its programming ascpects
> are explained in great detail in the SC-4 Reference Manual, of which
Anyone ever heard of the Systems Concepts SC-4 computer?
"This is an two's-complement 18-bit machine, with 16 general registers
and a 16 level priority interrupt system. Its programming ascpects
are explained in great detail in the SC-4 Reference Manual, of which a
draft is enclosed.
Always jarring to see KL... and then not 10 after!
Doug Jackson wrote:
> Those of us late to the party may like to know:
> 1. What was AL
> 2. Why was it famous?
Not AL, but AI. Also known as MIT-AI on the ARPANET. It was the PDP-10
used by the MIT AI lab, hence the name. The Incompatible Timesharing
System was developed on their PDP-6, later
Chris Zach wrote:
> Did AI use MA10 memory boxes?
No. It had the original 256K "moby" from Fabri-Tek, and another 256K
from Ampex. The associated PDP-6 had an older DEC Type 16x-something
16K memory.
> Did any of that stuff survive?
Maybe bits and pieces here and there. The AI KA10 went to
Hello,
Ken Thompson's space exploration simulation Space Travel will now run on
the SIMH PDP-7 simulator:
http://sebras.se/space-travel-2.mp4
Hello,
I'm making a software emulator for the General Turtle TT2500. Does
anyone have any information about it? It's hard to come by.
Here's what I have learned:
It's a custom TTL design by Marvin Minsky et al, with 64K 16-bit memory
and 4K 16-bit control store. It has two displays attached,
Noel Chiappa wrote:
> > it was AI rather than MC. As I'm sure you know, AI had the Rubin
> > 10-11 interface
>
> Really? (I expect you're correct, mind.) I just remember one day MC
> wasn't running as normal, and I was told it was because CHEOPS was in
> some tournament, and MC had been taken
Noel Chiappa wrote:
> I'm not sure CONS ever ran as a stand-alone system; I suspect (but
> don't recall for sure; RG, TK or Moon or someone could confirm one way
> or the other) that it ran as a loosely-coupled co-processor to MC, the
> way the Chess Machine did.
I believe you are entirely
Al Kossow wrote:
>> I'm kind of maintaining that.
> where?
Here:
https://github.com/brouhaha/tapeutils
> and since your fscking around inside of it, have you added the
> Bordynuik extensions in the ToTS tape images?
No, but I certainly will if yout tell me what it is.
Al Kossow wrote:
>> I usually use tapeutils:
>> https://github.com/brouhaha/tapeutils
>
> I should bug Eric about this, but the .tap files that library creates
> doesn't have the Supnik SIMH extensions
In case Eric doesn't have time to make updates, bug me instead.
I'm kind of maintaining that.
Michael Kerpan wrote:
> Something in another recent thread about LISP machines got me
> wondering: how many early graphical systems are well emulated (or
> emulated at all)? I know that there are more or less functional
> emulations of Alto, Star, and Lisa out there, but what about the
> various
Murray McCullough wrote:
> We in the classic computer community need to know the history of our
> hobby
I for bigger iron history, I suggest "Dream Machine" by Waldrop. It's
not just about Licklider, though his is a very interesting story by
itself.
Josh Dersch wrote:
> Not a ton to see, lisp-wise, it's just a port of Franz Lisp to
> Uniflex. I can try to benchmark fibonacci later this week if you want.
Thanks! I wasn't expecting a benchmark, just a little defun.
For the record, I have a Maclisp over here that will do (fib 40) in less
than
Dave Wade wrote:
> The docs for SIMH .TAP files are here:-
>
> http://simh.trailing-edge.com/docs/simh_magtape.pdf
>
> be careful as there are also non-SIMH .tap formats
Haha, yes very much so. For the fun of it, people like to mix and match
these options:
- Records padded to even length or
Josh Dersch wrote:
> I did recently get my 4404 running, at last.
Any Lisp screenshots?
I believe fibonacci is a required exercise for occations like this.
Michael Kerpan wrote:
> AFS is also cool, but it's a separate project that's still actively
> maintained and (presumably) used.
MIT uses it, as does the student organization Stacken.
Josh Dersch via cctalk writes:
> I'm also looking for earlier releases of X to run on this -- the VS100
> was the development platform for X (and W ran on it at one point as
> well). I haven't been able to track down anything prior to X10R3.
I asked the usual suspects (Reid, Asente, Kantarjiev)
Hello,
Early Zork source and binary files have been found on ITS backup tapes.
MIT previously released some December 1977 files here:
https://github.com/MITDDC/zork
Recently discovered files from January 1978 will appear soon.
Warner Losh wrote:
>> A rather complete full dump of the MIT-AI PDP-10 from 1971 has been
>> found.
>
> Where? How? Will it be made available?
Where: In the "ToTS" archives, see
https://archivesspace.mit.edu/repositories/2/resources/1265
How: MIT has given me access to the archives, for research
>From the incompatible department of classic computement: A rather
complete full dump of the MIT-AI PDP-10 from 1971 has been found. It
includes full source code and documentation for the system, including
ITS version 671, DDT, TECO, MIDAS, (MAC)LISP, CHESS (MacHack), MUDDLE,
LOGO, MACSYMA, etc.
Kevin Monceaux wrote:
> The first emulator is web based, and the second fails to build. I'm
> not a fan of web interfaces. Are there any other B5500 emulators
> and/or software that Bing missed?
Richard Cornwell added one to SIMH:
https://github.com/simh/simh/tree/master/B5500
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