>>Ah, oh How should that get between the heads and the platter?
If it can happen it will. It did. I had saved up three or four cartridges
for future repair. I was told such work should be done by
(someone not so expensive) so off they went to one of the manufacturing
repair techs. I was busy
On 01/05/2017 02:22 PM, Noel Chiappa wrote:
> From: Klemens Krause
> We clean our RK05 disks in a very robust way: with cheap burning spirit
> and paper towels. ... We rubbed away thick black traces from occasional
> head crashes and we never removed the oxide coating with this
Another thing to watch out for is the two halves of some if not all
were screwed together with self tapping screws. When you take
them apart bit of plastic may come out of the holes or fall off the
insides of the screw threads. That plastic if gets between the platter
and head will not be to
On 01/07/2017 07:01 AM, Al Kossow wrote:
> On 1/7/17 3:06 AM, jim stephens wrote:
>
>> They did make a tape drive of some sort
>
> They made several generations, what I've found on their cartridge
> tape drives is under 3M on bitsavers. All use variations of their
> trade secret or what
On 1/7/17 3:06 AM, jim stephens wrote:
They did make a tape drive of some sort
They made several generations, what I've found on their cartridge tape
drives is under 3M on bitsavers. All use variations of their trade
secret or what eventually became QIC standard tape formats.
The 1/4"
On January 7, 2017 5:06:32 AM CST, jim stephens wrote:
>
>
>On 1/6/2017 6:46 PM, Rick Bensene wrote:
>> Today, there seems to be no record that 3M ever was in the computer
>business. But...it was.
>They inflicted the write only media on the world that became QIC. So
>they
On 1/6/2017 6:46 PM, Rick Bensene wrote:
Today, there seems to be no record that 3M ever was in the computer business.
But...it was.
They inflicted the write only media on the world that became QIC. So
they were in the biz long enough to do that.
Media never intended to be recorded at the
Here is the exact reference for the clean room wipes:
Berkshire DURX 670
Item #: DR670.0404.10
4"x4" (10cm x10 cm)
Non-woven Polyester/Cellulose
And isopropyl alcohol we use is 99.9%, not just 99 as I said.
Marc
-Original Message-
We use 6"x6" clean room rated wipes (I think they were
Allison wrote;
>I envy the chance to restore a LGP-30 or for that fact play with one.
>Many of the things I remember
>mid sixties on are now gone or were rare then. Like small desk sized drum
>computers using transistors or first generation IC (RTL and RDTL).
I so regret not having rescued
On 01/06/2017 07:32 AM, David Bridgham wrote:
> On 01/05/2017 08:13 PM, allison wrote:
>
>> Lots of ifs, mights, and maybes. My knowledge is from actually owning
>> and maintaining a Cessna since 1979 and so far that has not been an issue.
> Yup, that's just how the discussion in the aircraft
>>The latter 91% is safe for many uses and is water clear it leaves no residue
>>(however one must assure its dry after).
And what type of microscope did you use to determine there is no residue ?
On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 9:23 AM, allison wrote:
> On 1/5/17 8:36 AM, E.
On 01/05/2017 08:13 PM, allison wrote:
> Lots of ifs, mights, and maybes. My knowledge is from actually owning
> and maintaining a Cessna since 1979 and so far that has not been an issue.
Yup, that's just how the discussion in the aircraft community went. One
group would point out that Simple
We use 6"x6" clean room rated wipes (I think they were either Berkshires or
Kimwipes) from Grainger and 99% isopropyl alcohol from Fry's. Won't scratch,
free of microscopic dust and lint, and 99% alcohol will leave no drying marks
(it's typically the last rinse in IC manufacturing). May cost
On 01/05/2017 05:13 PM, allison wrote:
>> Freon TF works well on everything. Too bad it's not available.
>>
>> Is it still used for aircraft electronics?
> No its been obsoleted. There are many other similar but not
> fluorinated hydrocarbons that are preferred and also good old soap
> and
On 01/05/2017 11:38 AM, Pete Lancashire wrote:
you could test various solvents with a Q-tip to make sure they don't cause
damage.
And a week later after the binder had decomposed what are you going to do ?
That's why you test in a non-critical area, and then let it
sit for a while to make
On 01/05/2017 07:15 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
> On 01/05/2017 03:24 PM, David Bridgham wrote:
>
>> This question of whether Simple Green was aluminum safe came up in
>> the aircraft world a few years back and the answer turned out to be
>> that some ingredient in there is mildly corrosive to
"A pack inspector is a handy thing to have (spinle with microscope and
illuminator on the rack and pinion)"
Can you post a picture of this critter? Is it something we could 3D print?
Thanks,
Marc
On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 6:40 AM, Al Kossow wrote:
> isopropyl alcohol works.
On 1/5/17 12:30 PM, Al Kossow wrote:
On 1/5/17 9:22 AM, j...@cimmeri.com wrote:
As Allison taught me, the oxide surface on platters / drums is just a form of
inactive RUST.. and therefore, unaffected
by water (no, the water doesn't cause it to start rusting further).
The interface between
On 1/5/17 10:56 AM, Mouse wrote:
In the US, "rubbing alcohol" is mostly denatured ethanol (though "isopropyl$
Interesting. I don't think I've ever seen a bottle of "rubbing
alcohol" that was anything but isopropanol-and-water. But I'm more
Canadian than US.
Many are possible in the local
On 1/5/17 8:36 AM, E. Groenenberg wrote:
We have a similar common name for it being 'brand spiritus'.
It's basically 90% - 92% alcohol, with the rest being methanol and water
and it's color is blue-ish.
Ed
--
In the past from the local print and painting supplier "De-natured alcohol"
Usually
>>you could test various solvents with a Q-tip to make sure they don't cause
>>damage.
And a week later after the binder had decomposed what are you going to do ?
On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 9:05 AM, Jon Elson wrote:
> On 01/05/2017 07:22 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote:
>>
>> >
On 01/05/2017 03:24 PM, David Bridgham wrote:
> This question of whether Simple Green was aluminum safe came up in
> the aircraft world a few years back and the answer turned out to be
> that some ingredient in there is mildly corrosive to aluminum. Not
> badly so and if you managed to flush it
On Thu, 5 Jan 2017 08:22:05 -0500 (EST)
j...@mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa) wrote:
> > From: Klemens Krause
>
> > We clean our RK05 disks in a very robust way: with cheap
> > burning spirit and paper towels. ... We rubbed away thick black
> > traces from occasional head
On 01/05/2017 12:22 PM, j...@cimmeri.com wrote:
>
> It's very mild and has been aluminum safe for me (think, aluminum
> wheels on cars).
This question of whether Simple Green was aluminum safe came up in the
aircraft world a few years back and the answer turned out to be that
some ingredient in
On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 5:30 PM, Al Kossow wrote:
>
>
> On 1/5/17 9:22 AM, j...@cimmeri.com wrote:
>
>> As Allison taught me, the oxide surface on platters / drums is just a form
>> of inactive RUST.. and therefore, unaffected
>> by water (no, the water doesn't cause it to
> Another thing to watch out for is the two halves of some if not all
> were screwed together with self tapping screws. When you take
> them apart bit of plastic may come out of the holes or fall off the
> insides of the screw threads. That plastic if gets between the platter
> and head will not
On 1/5/2017 12:30 PM, Al Kossow wrote:
On 1/5/17 9:22 AM, j...@cimmeri.com wrote:
As Allison taught me, the oxide surface on platters / drums is just a form of
inactive RUST.. and therefore, unaffected
by water (no, the water doesn't cause it to start rusting further).
The interface
It's very mild and has been aluminum
safe for me (think, aluminum wheels on
cars).
As Allison taught me, the oxide surface
on platters / drums is just a form of
inactive RUST.. and therefore,
unaffected by water (no, the water
doesn't cause it to start rusting further).
- J.
On
On 1/5/17 9:22 AM, j...@cimmeri.com wrote:
> As Allison taught me, the oxide surface on platters / drums is just a form of
> inactive RUST.. and therefore, unaffected
> by water (no, the water doesn't cause it to start rusting further).
>
The interface between the aluminum platter and the
http://simplegreen.com/downloads/SDS_EN-US_SimpleGreenAllPurposeCleaner.pdf
not something I would think of using on a disk surface
On 1/5/17 8:59 AM, Liam Proven wrote:
> On 5 January 2017 at 17:11, j...@cimmeri.com wrote:
>> - apply some Simple Green to a microfiber cloth
>
On 1/5/2017 9:49 AM, Pete Lancashire wrote:
I would clean all the heads, and the surface with a soft cloth and give it a
try.
A place I worked, a "soft dry cloth" unless it came out of a package
made by Texwipe or their competitors was known as "sand paper", if you
were caught using such
On 1/5/2017 11:59 AM, Liam Proven wrote:
On 5 January 2017 at 17:11, j...@cimmeri.com wrote:
- apply some Simple Green to a microfiber cloth
I may be the odd one out here, but what on Earth is "Simple Green?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkZFuKHXa7w
Ever heard of
Kimwipes ! That's the brand and products I could not remember. Just one
thing to add, there are many different types/variations, so be careful.
On Jan 5, 2017 7:15 AM, "Paul Koning" wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 3:44 AM, Klemens Krause <
>
>>I would clean all the heads, and the surface with a soft cloth and give it a
>>try.
A place I worked, a "soft dry cloth" unless it came out of a package
made by Texwipe or their competitors was known as "sand paper", if you
were caught using such you were fired on the spot and escorted out
DEC (branded, made by Texwipe) cleaning pads contained 99% isopropyl
alcohol. The most important part was being non abrasive.
I would consider using Texwipe or other brands of non abrasive
materials before I even though about a solvent.
I remember a disk being being cleaned with common paper
My error did mean to say 90% just got a bit too wound up with so many
suggestions that could destroy the coating.
On Jan 5, 2017 7:49 AM, "Al Kossow" wrote:
> 91% IPA works fine.
> 99% is better though i'm skeptical it really is
>
>
We have a similar common name for it being 'brand spiritus'.
It's basically 90% - 92% alcohol, with the rest being methanol and water
and it's color is blue-ish.
Ed
--
Ik email, dus ik besta.
BTC : 1J5fajt8ptyZ2V1YURj3YJZhe5j3fJVSHN
LTC : LP2WuEmYPbpWUBqMFGJfdm7pdHEW7fKvDz
On Thu, January 5,
The method I've used very successfully for unknown packs is:
1) I first mount the pack in a drive that has a good absolute filter,
and has had the head load disabled, and spin it for a few hours. If the
pack shows any sign of excessive vibration, it is probably no good or
requires more serious
The method I use for RL02 packs (not sure if similar), is:
- remove platter from pack
- rinse it down with tap water
- apply some Simple Green to a microfiber cloth
- wipe the entire platter with that cloth
- rinse by wiping with a 2nd cloth wet with distilled water
- let dry 24 hours
John
The cleaning procedure in the laboratory I used to work in for removing
organics from silicon wafers was typically acetone, then isopropanol, then
ethanol, then a deionized water rinse and nitrogen dry. We did use piranha
solution on occasion when it was particularly caked on (like really old
>> In the US, "rubbing alcohol" is mostly denatured ethanol (though "isopropyl$
Interesting. I don't think I've ever seen a bottle of "rubbing
alcohol" that was anything but isopropanol-and-water. But I'm more
Canadian than US.
> I would suggest avoiding these blends of random chemicals made
91% IPA works fine.
99% is better though i'm skeptical it really is
https://www.quora.com/When-is-70-isopropyl-rubbing-alcohol-better-than-91
>> In the US, "rubbing alcohol" is mostly denatured ethanol (though "isopropyl
>> rubbing alcohol" is mostly IPA), but always contains other chemicals
> On Jan 5, 2017, at 8:55 AM, Pete Turnbull wrote:
>
> On 05/01/2017 13:22, Noel Chiappa wrote:
>>> From: Klemens Krause
>>
>>> We clean our RK05 disks in a very robust way: with cheap burning spirit
>>> and paper towels. ... We rubbed away thick black
isopropyl alcohol works. TFE is better, if you have some stashed.
If you can find them anywhere, Texwipe made a plastic wand that looks like
a tongue depressor with a slit down the middle and a lint free sleeve
called the Texsleeve (tx300 sleeve, tx800 wand) that you would use to clean
heads
On 05/01/2017 13:22, Noel Chiappa wrote:
> From: Klemens Krause
> We clean our RK05 disks in a very robust way: with cheap burning spirit
> and paper towels. ... We rubbed away thick black traces from occasional
> head crashes and we never removed the oxide coating with this
On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 3:44 AM, Klemens Krause <
kra...@informatik.uni-stuttgart.de> wrote:
>
>>
>> http://www.radar58.com/temp/drum.jpg
>> http://www.radar58.com/temp/drum2.jpg
>>
>
> From the fotos your drum looks better than our working one, with
> the exception of the large engraving on the
> From: Klemens Krause
> We clean our RK05 disks in a very robust way: with cheap burning spirit
> and paper towels. ... We rubbed away thick black traces from occasional
> head crashes and we never removed the oxide coating with this torture.
I am about to get a large batch of
On Wed, 4 Jan 2017, Cory Heisterkamp wrote:
On Jan 4, 2017, at 1:02 PM, allison wrote:
On 1/4/17 1:06 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
Previous messages suggested the LGP-30 drum was plated with nickel.
Nope. I ever wrote about iron oxide.
I'm far from an expert, but it certainly looks like an
On Wed, 4 Jan 2017, Cory Heisterkamp wrote:
I'm far from an expert, but it certainly looks like an oxide coating to
me. I'm reminded of the folklore when IBM was developing the RAMAC and
Yes, it is ferric oxide.
http://www.radar58.com/temp/drum.jpg
http://www.radar58.com/temp/drum2.jpg
On 01/04/2017 09:56 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
> On 01/04/2017 05:24 PM, Cory Heisterkamp wrote:
>>
>> I'm far from an expert, but it certainly looks like an oxide coating
>> to me. I'm reminded of the folklore when IBM was developing the RAMAC
>> and finally had success with a magnetic paint mixed up
On 01/04/2017 03:50 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
>> On Jan 4, 2017, at 2:48 PM, Kyle Owen wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 12:06 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
>>> Previous messages suggested the LGP-30 drum was plated with nickel. If
>>> there are amateur
On 01/04/2017 05:24 PM, Cory Heisterkamp wrote:
I'm far from an expert, but it certainly looks like an oxide coating to me. I'm
reminded of the folklore when IBM was developing the RAMAC and finally had
success with a magnetic paint mixed up outside of house. In that case it was
easy to
On 1/4/2017 7:56 AM, allison wrote:
Sperm oil was a high quality wax/lubricant. Its low viscosity and high
resistance to oxidation
were its high points. Its likely use was as a plasticize the binder
and surface.
As far as I know it is illegal to purchase or transfer now. Not to
possess.
On Jan 4, 2017, at 1:02 PM, allison wrote:
> On 1/4/17 1:06 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
>> On 01/04/2017 09:03 AM, Klemens Krause wrote:
>>>
>>>
We both have analog recordings (from digitizing scopes) and logic analyzer
dumps. So concerning the LGP-30, all relevant information about the
On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 12:30 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
> On 01/04/2017 11:48 AM, Kyle Owen wrote:
>
> > Will the desired thickness be enough with sputtering or evaporation?
> > For modern hard drives, sure, but my gut instinct is that you'd want
> > a thicker coating on the drum.
> On Jan 4, 2017, at 2:48 PM, Kyle Owen wrote:
>
> On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 12:06 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
>>
>> Previous messages suggested the LGP-30 drum was plated with nickel. If
>> there are amateur astronomers with a vacuum evaporator, it might be
On 01/04/2017 11:48 AM, Kyle Owen wrote:
> Will the desired thickness be enough with sputtering or evaporation?
> For modern hard drives, sure, but my gut instinct is that you'd want
> a thicker coating on the drum. I'd suggest sputtering over
> evaporation since it will probably adhere to the
On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 12:06 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
>
> Previous messages suggested the LGP-30 drum was plated with nickel. If
> there are amateur astronomers with a vacuum evaporator, it might be
> possible to get them to adjust their setup slightly to vacuum evaporate
>
On 01/04/2017 09:03 AM, Klemens Krause wrote:
We both have analog recordings (from digitizing scopes)
and logic analyzer dumps. So concerning the LGP-30, all
relevant information about the drum has been saved :-)
We have a second LGP-30 drum in our museum. It is damaged
by water.
(large
On 01/04/2017 06:05 AM, Christian Corti wrote:
The LGP-30 is similar, but the timing and long tracks
(i.e. main memory) are not recirculating. Hence the reason
why a word is limited to 31 bits, although the sector
holds 32 bits. The last bit must be zero to reset the read
circuitry for the
On Wed, 4 Jan 2017, Al Kossow wrote:
On 1/4/17 7:03 AM, Klemens Krause wrote:
We have a second LGP-30 drum in our museum. It is damaged by water.
...
In doing some disk research recently, I came across a footnote for a rather
unlikely
place to find information on magnetic coatings,
On 1/4/17 10:19 AM, Al Kossow wrote:
On 1/4/17 7:03 AM, Klemens Krause wrote:
We have a second LGP-30 drum in our museum. It is damaged by water.
(large rusted areas, probably from water between heads and drum).
I'm dreaming to wash the brown oxide coating off with a solvent like
acetone,
On 1/4/17 7:03 AM, Klemens Krause wrote:
> We have a second LGP-30 drum in our museum. It is damaged by water.
> (large rusted areas, probably from water between heads and drum).
> I'm dreaming to wash the brown oxide coating off with a solvent like
> acetone, polish the drum and repaint it.
>
On Wed, 4 Jan 2017, Christian Corti wrote:
On Tue, 3 Jan 2017, Al Kossow wrote:
There are running LGP-30s. Should be short work with a digital oscillosope
We both have analog recordings (from digitizing scopes) and logic analyzer
dumps. So concerning the LGP-30, all relevant
On Tue, 3 Jan 2017, Paul Koning wrote:
The key questions for reconstructing such a device is what the
modulation scheme is, and the pulse pattern. There might be marker
pulses for sector start, for example, or that might just be derived from
a counter in the controller.
It's in the
On 01/03/2017 01:47 PM, Brian L. Stuart wrote:
On Tue, 1/3/17, Cory Heisterkamp wrote:
What I’m wondering is if anyone is familiar with the setup/adjustment
procedure for getting the heads set correctly. There *might* be a couple of
unused tracks I can relocate heads
On 1/3/17 5:42 PM, Al Kossow wrote:
>
> I think Paul Pierce's machine is at LCM now.
They have his LGP-30
On 1/3/17 5:42 PM, Al Kossow wrote:
>
> Someone should do the same for the surviving G-15s as well. I think Paul
> Pierce's machine is at LCM now.
>
turns out we have it
http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102728118
On 1/3/17 5:22 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
> The key questions for reconstructing such a device is what the modulation
> scheme is, and the pulse pattern.
There are running LGP-30s. Should be short work with a digital oscillosope to
capture the flux changes.
Hopefully, someone has done this
> On Jan 3, 2017, at 6:07 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
>
> On 01/03/2017 01:42 PM, Mark Linimon wrote:
>
>> Very ambitious. IIRC for the G-15 there is/are (one? two?) timing
>> track(s) which were written at the factory. Of course whatever that
>> machine was, has not survived.
On Jan 3, 2017, at 2:22 PM, Klemens Krause wrote:
> On Tue, 3 Jan 2017, Cory Heisterkamp wrote:
>>
>>
>> What I’m wondering is if anyone is familiar with the setup/adjustment
>> procedure for getting the heads set correctly. There *might* be a couple of
> We relocated some of the heads on
On 01/03/2017 01:42 PM, Mark Linimon wrote:
> Very ambitious. IIRC for the G-15 there is/are (one? two?) timing
> track(s) which were written at the factory. Of course whatever that
> machine was, has not survived. I remember reading that if you lost
> that timing track, your machine was
On 01/03/2017 01:19 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
> Metal alloy plating seems common in fixed head disks also, at least
> in the ones from DEC I have seen. Making a new drum sounds like a
> great class project for an ambitious machine shop student.
Modern CNC gear and carbide bits should make this
On Tue, Jan 03, 2017 at 04:19:01PM -0500, Paul Koning wrote:
> Making a new drum sounds like a great class project for an ambitious
> machine shop student.
Very ambitious. IIRC for the G-15 there is/are (one? two?) timing track(s)
which were written at the factory. Of course whatever that
> On Jan 3, 2017, at 4:15 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
>
> On 01/03/2017 12:57 PM, Cory Heisterkamp wrote:
>
>> Once I can make sense of the timing tracks, I think I'll proceed with
>> this. Not sure how I feel about using a micro-based solution though.
>> Just seems wrong : ) -C
On 01/03/2017 12:57 PM, Cory Heisterkamp wrote:
> Once I can make sense of the timing tracks, I think I'll proceed with
> this. Not sure how I feel about using a micro-based solution though.
> Just seems wrong : ) -C
If enough working heads can be found, the drum probably can be
On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 1:47 PM, Brian L. Stuart
wrote:
> On Tue, 1/3/17, Cory Heisterkamp wrote:
> > What I’m wondering is if anyone is familiar with the setup/adjustment
> > procedure for getting the heads set correctly. There *might* be a
On Tue, 3 Jan 2017, Cory Heisterkamp wrote:
What I’m wondering is if anyone is familiar with the setup/adjustment
procedure for getting the heads set correctly. There *might* be a couple of
We relocated some of the heads on our second LGP-30. This is not
difficult. We put 3 or 4 layers of 3
On Tue, 1/3/17, Cory Heisterkamp wrote:
> What I’m wondering is if anyone is familiar with the setup/adjustment
> procedure for getting the heads set correctly. There *might* be a couple of
> unused tracks I can relocate heads to, but my thought is that if half a
>
In a message dated 1/3/2017 11:11:54 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,
el...@pico-systems.com writes:
On 01/03/2017 10:58 AM, Cory Heisterkamp wrote:
> While waiting for the machine, I decided to investigate the stuck drum.
> This unit has 71 read/write heads plus what appears to be an
On 01/03/2017 10:58 AM, Cory Heisterkamp wrote:
While waiting for the machine, I decided to investigate the stuck drum.
This unit has 71 read/write heads plus what appears to be an inductive
pickup for the system clock. Upon closer examination I discovered multiple
heads in contact with the drum
While waiting for the machine, I decided to investigate the stuck drum.
This unit has 71 read/write heads plus what appears to be an inductive
pickup for the system clock. Upon closer examination I discovered multiple
heads in contact with the drum surface preventing rotation. And in the
process
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