[cctalk] Re: Intel 8086 - 46 yrs. ago

Word length. :) > On Jun 9, 2024, at 10:40 AM, Murray McCullough via cctalk > wrote: > > Intel introduced to the world the x86 processor: the CISC technology still > with us. So what has changed other than speed and upward development? > > Happy computing, > > Murray 

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On 6/8/24 20:52, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: Is it Artronix or Artronics, out of Plainfield, New Jersey (according to the label, formally TechArt Systems 2000)? Because if the latter, I have one right here, though I can't tell you the model number because it is not displaying one. The

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

I believe the term was coined at PARC and was to distinguish between a time-sharing system and a computer which was “yours” when you put your disk pack on it and sat in the room where you were. Thus the Alto and Dorados were personal as they melded to their user, when being used by that user,

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

Please kill it. It's a marketing term, defined to suit the needs of the moment. Even if we ever define it to our satisfaction, nobody else will ever use that definition. On Sun, Jun 9, 2024 at 2:32 AM Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > > Liebe Leser, after consigning most of this thread to the

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Sat, Jun 8, 2024 at 7:43 AM Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: > On 6/7/24 20:42, Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk wrote: > > On 6/7/2024 6:19 PM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: > >> OK, I have to chime in here. I worked for Artronix about > >> 1972. The LINC computer was developed at MIT for use in > >>

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

Liebe Leser, after consigning most of this thread to the bit bucket over the last week or more, I find myself in the position of trying to figure out what the latest posts have to do with 'Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)'. Indeed, it seems that much of the thread

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On 6/8/24 15:17, jim stephens via cctalk wrote: On 6/8/24 12:33, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: On 6/8/24 11:56, Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk wrote: On 6/8/2024 7:43 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: On 6/7/24 20:42, Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk wrote: On 6/7/2024 6:19 PM, Jon Elson via cctalk

[cctalk] Artonix PC (was Re: Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s))

On 6/8/2024 1:17 PM, jim stephens via cctalk wrote: On 6/8/24 12:33, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: On 6/8/24 11:56, Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk wrote: Even maintenance drawings would be great. Does any software survive? Diagnostics would be cool, but so would MUMPS. Not sure the radiology

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On 6/8/24 12:33, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: On 6/8/24 11:56, Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk wrote: On 6/8/2024 7:43 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: On 6/7/24 20:42, Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk wrote: On 6/7/2024 6:19 PM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: OK, I have to chime in here.  I worked

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On 6/8/24 11:56, Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk wrote: On 6/8/2024 7:43 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: On 6/7/24 20:42, Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk wrote: On 6/7/2024 6:19 PM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: OK, I have to chime in here.  I worked for Artronix about 1972. The LINC computer was

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On 6/8/2024 7:43 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: On 6/7/24 20:42, Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk wrote: On 6/7/2024 6:19 PM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: OK, I have to chime in here.  I worked for Artronix about 1972. The LINC computer was developed at MIT for use in biomedical research labs,

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On 6/7/24 20:42, Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk wrote: On 6/7/2024 6:19 PM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: OK, I have to chime in here.  I worked for Artronix about 1972. The LINC computer was developed at MIT for use in biomedical research labs, and a bunch of people involved with it later moved

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On 6/7/2024 6:19 PM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: OK, I have to chime in here.  I worked for Artronix about 1972. The LINC computer was developed at MIT for use in biomedical research labs, and a bunch of people involved with it later moved to Washington University in St. Louis. The Biomedical

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On 6/7/24 10:29, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: Still valid? Personal Computer Milestones - Fun page that attempts to answer the question: "What was the first PC?" http://www.blinkenlights.com/pc.shtml OK, I have to chime in here.  I worked for Artronix about 1972. The LINC computer was

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Fri, Jun 7, 2024, 3:31 PM Sellam Abraham via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > On Fri, Jun 7, 2024, 11:01 AM Bill Degnan via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> > wrote: > > > On Fri, Jun 7, 2024, 12:39 PM Sellam Abraham via cctalk < > > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > > On Fri, Jun

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Fri, Jun 7, 2024, 11:01 AM Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > On Fri, Jun 7, 2024, 12:39 PM Sellam Abraham via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > On Fri, Jun 7, 2024 at 8:29 AM Bill Degnan via cctalk < > > cctalk@classiccmp.org> > > wrote: > > > > > Still valid? > > > Personal

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Fri, Jun 7, 2024, 12:39 PM Sellam Abraham via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > On Fri, Jun 7, 2024 at 8:29 AM Bill Degnan via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> > wrote: > > > Still valid? > > Personal Computer Milestones - Fun page that attempts to answer the > > question: "What was

[cctalk] Re: Sports cars

On 2024-06-07 12:10, Christian Kennedy via cctalk wrote: On 6/7/24 07:18, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: Before we do any more automotive analogies of the "personal computer" definitions, . . . Could somebody explain to me What is a "muscle car"? You guys just prove again, that any thread

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

> On 06/07/2024 9:18 AM CDT Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > > > We can at least all agree that the Ford Mustang was not a "personal > computer", nor "Personal Computer", although almost any Personal Computer > could fit in the back seat or the trunk, but probably not in the glove >

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Fri, Jun 7, 2024 at 8:29 AM Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > Still valid? > Personal Computer Milestones - Fun page that attempts to answer the > question: "What was the first PC?" > http://www.blinkenlights.com/pc.shtml That's Doug Salot's old website circa 2000. He did an admirable job

[cctalk] Re: Sports cars (was: Re: Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s))

On Fri, Jun 7, 2024 at 9:10 AM Christian Kennedy via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > Not sure about that. We stuck a Nova 840, a couple of Diablo 30's, and > assorted other bits and bobs in a 1960's Mustang, and I once dragged an > Eclipse S/130, Diablo model 30, and a Hazeltine 2000

[cctalk] Sports cars (was: Re: Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s))

On 6/7/24 07:18, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: Before we do any more automotive analogies of the "personal computer" definitions, . . . Could somebody explain to me What is a "muscle car"? A semi-archaic term used in reference to cars defined primarily by power output relative to the average at

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

Wow! How truly interesting. Back then I guess one could call it a personal/micro-computer -Simon 1949. This was early digital age where mechanical devices ruled. Not my idea of a modern PC. Nonetheless, the quiz gives more information than what is found in books on the subject. Happy computing -

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

Still valid? Personal Computer Milestones - Fun page that attempts to answer the question: "What was the first PC?" http://www.blinkenlights.com/pc.shtml On Fri, Jun 7, 2024 at 11:24 AM Tony Duell via cctalk wrote: > On Thu, Jun 6, 2024 at 5:10 AM Sellam Abraham via cctalk > wrote: > > The

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Thu, Jun 6, 2024 at 5:10 AM Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: > The opposite of > personal is multi-user. There is your dichotomy. It is either personal, > or multiuser, and never the twain shall meet, and neither anything betwixt. By that definition the TRS-80 Color Computer is not a

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Thu, Jun 6, 2024 at 1:38 PM Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: > If you buy a bus and start driving it yourself everywhere, for your > own exclusive use, it doesn't somehow magically stop being a bus. It's > still a bus, just a bus being used for personal transport. I am not so sure... After all

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

Before we do any more automotive analogies of the "personal computer" definitions, . . . Could somebody explain to me What is a "muscle car"? What is a "sports car" I have heard the Ford Mustang, which seems like a Foulcon with cosmetically redesigned body panels, referred to as each of those.

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Thu, Jun 6, 2024, 6:19 AM Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > > > Ok, now you're back to cost. Your criteria keep changing. You cannot > > give something meaning when the "something" keeps changing. This is why > > you are refuted. > > > > I refute you, sir! > > > > Sellam There's "personal

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

> > > > > Ok, now you're back to cost. Your criteria keep changing. You cannot > give something meaning when the "something" keeps changing. This is why > you are refuted. > > I refute you, sir! > > > Sellam, There's "personal computing" as a verb and "personal computer" as an object

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

I refute your refutations thusly: On Thu, Jun 6, 2024, 5:38 AM Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: > On Thu, 6 Jun 2024 at 05:10, Sellam Abraham via cctalk > wrote: > > > If you ride a bus, where multiple random people get > > on and off at various stops, it's not a "personal" conveyance. > > I

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Thu, 6 Jun 2024 at 05:10, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: > If you ride a bus, where multiple random people get > on and off at various stops, it's not a "personal" conveyance. I refute your argument thus: If you buy a bus and start driving it yourself everywhere, for your own exclusive

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Wed, Jun 5, 2024 at 3:25 PM Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: > > If a device is not a microcomputer, it then must be either a > minicomputer or a mainframe. Early on many mainframes didn't even > support interactive sessions so they more or less disqualified > themselves from being "personal" in

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

"Workstation"??!? Several decades ago, out department chairPERSON, who was a recent UC Berkeley PhD graduate, came running into the lab, shouting, "I think that we're getting SUN computers!" (we had a few dozen cheap PCs). She had heard from the loading dock that they had a couple of boxes

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Wed, 5 Jun 2024 at 13:30, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > that's an important distinction, affordability. You define personal > computers to contain microprocessors, which made them affordable. The > demand was always there, it's the point in the demand curve that allowed x% > of the

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)



[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

Come on by my warehouse, I'll hook you up to where you make Adrian look like a rank amateur ;) Sellam On Wed, Jun 5, 2024 at 10:12 AM brianb1224 via cctalk wrote: > If I had his digital basement I would never come out. >

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Wed, Jun 5, 2024 at 10:03 AM Joshua Rice via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > As someone once said "Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one, and > they all stink." > > Josh Rice > Nothing but opinions and assholes around here ;) Sellam

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

If I had his digital basement I would never come out. 

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On 05/06/2024 16:37, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: *snip* You mentioned that an Altair 8800 and even a subscription to Popular Electronics was too much for your 9 year old self, but the TRS-80 wasn't? Perhaps I misinterpreted. At any rate, it matters not: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Wed, Jun 5, 2024 at 9:25 AM Joshua Rice via cctalk wrote: > Sellam, > > Adrian Black of Adrian's Digital Basement has a series on the Plexus > machines ongoing at the moment. > > I'd highly suggest contacting him, as i'm sure he'd be very interested > in adding to his collection. > > Josh

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Wed, Jun 5, 2024, 8:39 AM Will Cooke via cctalk wrote: > > One simple question. > If this "discussion" bothers you so much, why do you continue to drag it > out? > > Thanks for making it all clear for me, though. > > Will > Perhaps you haven't noticed but I've actually been trying to end it

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

> On 06/05/2024 10:37 AM CDT Sellam Abraham via cctalk > wrote: > > > On Wed, Jun 5, 2024, 8:33 AM Will Cooke via cctalk > wrote: > > > no > > > On 06/05/2024 10:28 AM CDT Sellam Abraham via cctalk < > > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > > > So, now we're adding the age of the buyer

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Wed, Jun 5, 2024, 8:33 AM Will Cooke via cctalk wrote: > no > > > On 06/05/2024 10:28 AM CDT Sellam Abraham via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > > So, now we're adding the age of the buyer as an element of what defines a > > "personal" computer? > > > > Sellam > > > > > > >

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Wed, Jun 5, 2024 at 11:30 AM Sellam Abraham via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > What I have taken away from this whole now weeks-long debate is this: > > Everything is a personal computer; and nothing is. > > Sellam > Then there is the question of personnel computing. Is this

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

no > On 06/05/2024 10:28 AM CDT Sellam Abraham via cctalk > wrote: > > So, now we're adding the age of the buyer as an element of what defines a > "personal" computer? > > Sellam > > > No. Not sure where I said that. But, no. Grownups never understand anything by themselves and it is

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

What I have taken away from this whole now weeks-long debate is this: Everything is a personal computer; and nothing is. Sellam

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Wed, Jun 5, 2024, 6:03 AM Will Cooke via cctalk wrote: > > When the Jan 75 issue of Popular Electronics came out I was 9 years old. > I didn't know the magazine existed, nor could I have afforded a > subscription if I did. But I knew what computers were, and I knew I wanted > one. But they

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Wed, Jun 5, 2024, 5:30 AM Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > > > > > > > > > > It isn't personal if an ordinary person can't afford it. > > > > > > > that's an important distinction, affordability. You define personal > computers to contain microprocessors, which made them affordable. The >

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Wed, Jun 5, 2024, 10:21 AM Will Cooke via cctalk wrote: > > > > On 06/05/2024 8:33 AM CDT Bill Degnan via cctalk > wrote: > > > > > > On Wed, Jun 5, 2024 at 9:03 AM Will Cooke via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> > > wrote: > > > > > > > So if a computer was built to be used by a single

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

> On 06/05/2024 8:33 AM CDT Bill Degnan via cctalk > wrote: > > > On Wed, Jun 5, 2024 at 9:03 AM Will Cooke via cctalk > wrote: > > > > So if a computer was built to be used by a single operator for general > purpose use, open to any application development but cost more than the > masses

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On 6/5/2024 9:33 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: On Wed, Jun 5, 2024 at 9:03 AM Will Cooke via cctalk wrote: On 06/05/2024 7:17 AM CDT Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: It isn't personal if an ordinary person can't afford it. That isn't _the people_. The People means hoi polloi.

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Wed, Jun 5, 2024 at 9:03 AM Will Cooke via cctalk wrote: > > > > On 06/05/2024 7:17 AM CDT Liam Proven via cctalk > wrote: > > > > > It isn't personal if an ordinary person can't afford it. > > > > > > > > That isn't _the people_. The People means hoi polloi. It means > > ordinary people. It

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

> On 06/05/2024 7:17 AM CDT Liam Proven via cctalk > wrote: > > It isn't personal if an ordinary person can't afford it. > > > > That isn't _the people_. The People means hoi polloi. It means > ordinary people. It means the masses. A personal computer is only > personal if the person in

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

> > > > > It isn't personal if an ordinary person can't afford it. > > > that's an important distinction, affordability. You define personal computers to contain microprocessors, which made them affordable. The demand was always there, it's the point in the demand curve that allowed x% of the

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Sat, 1 Jun 2024 at 14:32, Joshua Rice via cctalk wrote: > That's a terrible analogy. The first cars were indeed ludicrously > expensive and owned almost exclusively by the wealthy and upper classes. > It took a good 20 years for the car to become affordable to the masses, > in the shape of

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Mon, 03 Jun 2024 12:00:08 -0500 cctalk-requ...@classiccmp.org wrote: > > It's like John Conway's "game of life," but more prone to cause > > uncontrollable fits of laughter. > > You owe me a new keyboard (and another glass of milk). Even in death, his power remains ;)

[cctalk] Re: Pragmatically [was: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)]

On Sat, 1 Jun 2024 at 21:11, Lawrence Wilkinson via cctalk wrote: > Yes, I can confirm that I am real. :-D And better still, extant. -- Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype:

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

>> I used 1620s, and 360/30s, a 360/40, and others as a personal >> computer at times, for things like writing a Tim Conway game of life, >> keeping track of my vinyl records, etc. > > It's like John Conway's "game of life," but more prone to cause > uncontrollable fits of laughter. You owe me a

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

From: CAREY SCHUG > I used 1620s, and 360/30s, a 360/40, and others as a personal > computer at times, for things like writing a Tim Conway game of life, > keeping track of my vinyl records, etc. It's like John Conway's "game of life," but more prone to cause uncontrollable fits of laughter.

[cctalk] Re: Pragmatically [was: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)]

On 1/06/24 14:20, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: https://www.ljw.me.uk/ibm360/Saga.html That one? Lawrence is on this list and posts occasionally. He's real: I've met him. He was kind enough to give me some boxed copies of OS/2. :-) Yes, I can confirm that I am real. Incidentally, I found

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

Liam Proven wrote: > Microprocessors are what created the PC. No µP = not a PC. So, if I get this right, the term "PC" to means something like the "personal computer" of today (children of IBM PC or Apple Macintosh) or at least perhaps something as old as an Apple II, a Commodore PET. Perhaps

[cctalk] Re: Pragmatically [was: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)]

On 6/1/24 07:20, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: On Tue, 28 May 2024 at 19:32, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: There's a story about a guy in Australia that found an abandoned IBM 360/30 in a storage/shipper's warehouse and dragged it to a rented office space that had no elevator. He carefully

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On 01/06/2024 13:44, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: d they all functionally look a lot like the common home/personal computer of ~10 years later. I had some of those in mind -- I mentioned the IBM 5100 in passing. I don't think any qualify, no, myself. Only if one looks backwards from a world

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

> With no expectation of changing the opinion of anyone who thinks they have > the definitive definition of ‘first’ or ‘personal’, I will just mention that: > > • the HP9830 (1972), > • Wang 2200 (1973), > • IBM 5100 (1975) > were all: > • single-user, > •

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Fri, 31 May 2024 at 18:57, Harald Arnesen via cctalk wrote: > > Liam Proven via cctalk [31/05/2024 18.07]: > > > My first fiancée's dad had what he reckoned was the first mainframe in > > Norway. > > Was it this: > > - in Norwegian, machine translation work ok. Thanks

[cctalk] Re: Pragmatically [was: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)]

On Tue, 28 May 2024 at 19:32, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: > There's a story about a guy in Australia that found an > abandoned IBM 360/30 in a storage/shipper's warehouse and > dragged it to a rented office space that had no elevator. He > carefully dismantled it, dragged the pieces up to at

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

It appears that one can determine what is a personal and/or a microcomputer that satisfies only the author. If one states that and believes it then that is all that’s necessary. I wrote a book based on this line of thinking and if a reader disagrees with me that is fine. I’m not declaring the

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

> On 05/31/2024 8:11 PM CDT CAREY SCHUG via cctalk > wrote: > > Sorry, WRONG. > > --Carey > Why do I feel like I'm observing a first grade classroom where the boys are arguing about whose dad can beat up the others? Grownups never understand anything by themselves and it is tiresome for

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

It appears that I am in error. I see that micro-electronics or something similar can be used in a computer or computer-like device. If a non-uP machine accomplishes the same result then I bow to being corrected. I want/wish to learn new things. Happy computing, Murray  On Fri, May 31, 2024 at

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

Sorry, WRONG. A computer type is "Personal" (capital P as a NAME for a class of computers) not based upon how ONE instance of it is used, but based upon the intent of its design and how many in practice. Musk could buy the lastest Frontier supercomputer and ONLY use it to play chess with

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

I would accept a bit-slice. as I understand that, you take 8 of them and daisychain them to act on a byte of data. Many early minis used them afaik. --Carey > On 05/31/2024 7:29 PM CDT Brent Hilpert via cctalk > wrote: > > > On 2024May 31,, at 4:37 PM, Murray McCullough via cctalk >

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On 2024May 31,, at 4:37 PM, Murray McCullough via cctalk wrote: > On Fri, May 31, 2024 at 6:02 PM Dave Dunfield via cctalk > wrote: >> Liam Proven wrote: >>> It needs to have a microprocessor to qualify. >>> ... No µP = not a PC. >> >> Not entirely sure ... >>

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

I quite agree. I do believe that a *u*P is the minimum that can be accepted to call a PC a microcomputer. Another is that it must be usable, i.e., non-programmable, for the average PC owner. Like a car one doesn't need to know how it works in order to drive/use a car to get from one place to

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

Liam Proven wrote: > It needs to have a microprocessor to qualify. > ... No µP = not a PC. Not entirely sure ... http://dunfield.classiccmp.org/primitiv Dave

[cctalk] Re: Windows, Was Re: Re: First Personal Computer

On May 31, 2024, at 9:29 AM, Doc Shipley via cctalk wrote: > > Can we do the "Which version of Windows is 'Classic' now?" flame war next? > > Pleeeze? > > > Doc I’m rather partial to “Bow Windows”, I feel they have a rather classic look. Zane

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

Liam Proven via cctalk [31/05/2024 18.07]: My first fiancée's dad had what he reckoned was the first mainframe in Norway. Was it this: - in Norwegian, machine translation work ok.

[cctalk] Re: C. Gordon Bell, Creator of a Personal Computer Prototype, Dies at 89

ing > Subject: [cctalk] Re: C. Gordon Bell, Creator of a Personal Computer > Prototype, Dies at 89 > Date: May 23, 2024 at 6:58:06 PM CDT > To: "cctalk@classiccmp.org" > Cc: Kevin Anderson > Reply-To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" >

[cctalk] Windows, Was Re: Re: First Personal Computer

On 5/30/24 07:29, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: On Thu, May 30, 2024 at 2:06 AM John Herron via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: Only because I thought it would be funny to hear ChatGPT's wrong answer. Here is ChatGPT's answer on the first personal computer. This would be a fun topic

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Tue, 28 May 2024 at 22:21, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > > We can never agree on the definition. The blind men are fixxated on > individual features of the elephant. You have a point. You usually do, Fred. I am surprised one thing hasn't been mentioned yet. Any computer can be "personal"

[cctalk] Re: interlace [was: NTSC TV demodulator ]

CAREY SCHUG wrote: > I think I tried a game on a flatscreen, and had issues. I've seen this lots - I'm not sure its entirely "interlace" - I tended to think more of the fact that CRT's scan causing the "pixel dots" to flash at high speed (not detectable to the human eye, but detecting a such a

[cctalk] Re: interlace [was: NTSC TV demodulator ]

On Mon, 20 May 2024, Wayne S via cctalk wrote: > The setup on the earlier monitors was sometimes call “ODB” , don‘t know > why. Was equivalent to setup. As a counterexample my first PC monitor had nothing like that. It was a dual-frequency B CRT and only had three controls: a power-on

[cctalk] Re: First Personal Computer

Not sure I share your definition of 'fun'... On Thu, May 30, 2024 at 8:29 AM Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > > On Thu, May 30, 2024 at 2:06 AM John Herron via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > Only because I thought it would be funny to hear ChatGPT's wrong answer. > > Here is

[cctalk] Re: Video/keyboard mono cable for Sun 386i

Thank you! On 30/05/24 15:10, Christopher Zach via cctalk wrote: Am at a conference just do a search on 386i and I should pop up On May 30, 2024 9:06:48 AM EDT, Stefano Sanna via cctalk wrote: Hi. I thought about using the serial connection (which should be enabled only if the video card

[cctalk] Re: Video/keyboard mono cable for Sun 386i

Am at a conference just do a search on 386i and I should pop up On May 30, 2024 9:06:48 AM EDT, Stefano Sanna via cctalk wrote: >Hi. > >I thought about using the serial connection (which should be enabled only if >the video card is removed). > >Thank you for the advice about the battery: usual

[cctalk] Re: Video/keyboard mono cable for Sun 386i

[sending message again, with attachment replaced by a link: https://www.mmcc.it/resources/misc/IMG_7975_video.JPG ] Thank you Richard! To use this cable, I need to replace my video card with a color one. Please, see attached picture of the connector I have on my 386i. I suppose that finding

[cctalk] Re: Video/keyboard mono cable for Sun 386i

Hi. I thought about using the serial connection (which should be enabled only if the video card is removed). Thank you for the advice about the battery: usual issue with SGI, Sony News :-) Unfortunately, the hard disk was been removed before I collected the workstation. Could you

[cctalk] Re: First Personal Computer

On Thu, May 30, 2024 at 2:06 AM John Herron via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > Only because I thought it would be funny to hear ChatGPT's wrong answer. > Here is ChatGPT's answer on the first personal computer. > > ME> What was the first personal computer? > ChatGPT> The first personal

[cctalk] Re: Video/keyboard mono cable for Sun 386i

Thank you! On 30/05/24 11:43, Richard wrote: Hi There, I have a cable attached to my Sun 386i. I used to have spares but sadly no more. I don’t believe there is anything special in the cable. If I have an opportunity I can buzz through and let you know what each pin is in the cable. Give

[cctalk] Re: Video/keyboard mono cable for Sun 386i

I have one around here somewhere. Sun built two cables, one was for the color boards (CGThree and CGFive) and the other was for monochrome systems (the D15). In the meantime you can hook a computer to the RS232 port and start running the thing headless to see what's there. Note, you're going

[cctalk] Re: Video/keyboard mono cable for Sun 386i

Hi There, I have a cable attached to my Sun 386i. I used to have spares but sadly no more. I don’t believe there is anything special in the cable. If I have an opportunity I can buzz through and let you know what each pin is in the cable. Give me a week or two and if I haven’t reverted please

[cctalk] Re: First Personal Computer

I’m surprised you didn’t quiz ChatGPT until it refused to answer and/or crashed. I understand “it” can use very “colorful” language when provoked and poked. ;) Don Resor Sent from someone's iPhone > On May 29, 2024, at 11:06 PM, John Herron via cctalk > wrote: > > Only because I thought it

[cctalk] Re: First Personal Computer

Only because I thought it would be funny to hear ChatGPT's wrong answer. Here is ChatGPT's answer on the first personal computer. ME> What was the first personal computer? ChatGPT> The first personal computer is a bit of a debated topic, but one of the earliest and most influential examples is

[cctalk] Re: PRIVATE: Re: STUPID THREAD NEEDS TO DIE Re: Pragmatically [was: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)]

SORRY! That was not intended to go to the list. On Wed, 29 May 2024, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: I apologize for my active participation in the offensive thread.

[cctalk] PRIVATE: Re: STUPID THREAD NEEDS TO DIE Re: Pragmatically [was: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)]

I apologize for my active participation in the offensive thread. Yeah, I just couldn't get past his insistence that method of purchase was more important than use. Yes, CHATGPT could probably give a definitive answer to "When did Steve Jobs invent the personal computer?" -- Grumpy Ol'

[cctalk] Re: Pragmatically [was: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)]

On 5/28/24 13:34, CAREY SCHUG via cctalk wrote: On 05/28/2024 1:05 PM CDT Sellam Abraham wrote: What if a corporation in 1970 purchased an IBM 360 for each of their employees for their individual personal use? Now what? Sellam 1. I don't believe ANYBODY could purchase a 360. You

[cctalk] Re: STUPID THREAD NEEDS TO DIE Re: Pragmatically [was: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)]

On Wed, May 29, 2024, 6:49 AM CAREY SCHUG via cctalk wrote: > something can be BOTH a "personal computer" *AND* "industrial computer" > (or whatever term you want to use) > So now you've incorporated "industrial" into the mix in order to extend this stupid debate out even beyond the ridiculous

[cctalk] Re: Pragmatically [was: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)]

something can be BOTH a "personal computer" *AND* "industrial computer" (or whatever term you want to use) I use cooking oil to start my charcoal grill, that does not make it NOT be food. I use vinegar and baking soda (separately) to kill weeds, that does not stop them from being food. Old

[cctalk] Re: Bit numbering

On 5/28/24 22:27, Lars Brinkhoff via cctalk wrote: > However, it's not entirely clear cut. In many situations data inside > words are arranged "left to right" and in this case the PDP numbering > sometimes is more convenient than the opposite. The CDC STAR/CYBER machines were bit-addressed.

[cctalk] Re: Pragmatically [was: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)]

Always good to spark an "interesting discussion" "Personal computer" - Generic enough that it can have multiple interpretations: While technically somebody could have put a Cray1 in his (big :-) basement and used it for his own enjoyment (ie: a "personal" computer) ... I don't think I have ever

[cctalk] Re: Pragmatically [was: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)]

On Tue, 28 May 2024, Sellam Abraham wrote: if a computer is being purchased by a non-human, i.e. corporation, to be used to benefit the corporation, it is NOT a personal computer. So then, that excludes the IBM PC / XT etc... At that time they were mostly bought by corporations. Christian

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