Re: "Bounce buffer" copyright [was Re: flash (or ide) storage for unibus 11?]

On 11/28/2015 3:41 PM, Mouse wrote: Love that term, "bounce buffer" (I wrote a whole package to support them in a packet switch I did) - I'm officially adopting it, right now! :-) Hey - anything that anyone writes is automatically copyrighted. I realize you...may have been less than entirely

Re: "Bounce buffer" copyright [was Re: flash (or ide) storage for unibus 11?]

On 2015-12-01 16:49, John Robertson wrote: On 11/28/2015 3:41 PM, Mouse wrote: Love that term, "bounce buffer" (I wrote a whole package to support them in a packet switch I did) - I'm officially adopting it, right now! :-) Hey - anything that anyone writes is automatically copyrighted. I

Re: "Bounce buffer" copyright [was Re: flash (or ide) storage for unibus 11?]

behalf of Chuck Guzis <ccl...@sydex.com> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2015 1:56 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: "Bounce buffer" copyright [was Re: flash (or ide) storage for unibus 11?] There were a few systems (such as CP/M) that optimized (or at

Re: "Bounce buffer" copyright [was Re: flash (or ide) storage for unibus 11?]

On Sat, Nov 28, 2015 at 7:19 PM, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > >Mouse wrote: > > Love that term, "bounce buffer" (I wrote a whole package to support them in a packet switch I did) - I'm officially adopting it, right now! :-) Hey - anything that anyone writes

Re: "Bounce buffer" copyright [was Re: flash (or ide) storage for unibus 11?]

On Nov 29, 2015, at 12:13 PM, Warner Losh wrote: > A similar thing was implemented on the old DEC Rainbow 100 (though > I'm sure others). To give the software a chance to do some minor things > while processing, it physically laid out the 10 sectors as 0 2 3 4 6 8 1 3 5 > 7 9 >

Re: "Bounce buffer" copyright [was Re: flash (or ide) storage for unibus 11?]

> On Nov 29, 2015, at 1:13 PM, Warner Losh wrote: > > ... > A similar thing was implemented on the old DEC Rainbow 100 (though > I'm sure others). To give the software a chance to do some minor things > while processing, it physically laid out the 10 sectors as 0 2 3 4 6 8 1 3

Re: flash (or ide) storage for unibus 11?

>Noel Chiappa wrote: > From: Jerome H. Fine > both DEC and DSD needed a bounce buffer managed by software Love that term, "bounce buffer" (I wrote a whole package to support them in a packet switch I did) - I'm officially adopting it, right now! :-) Noel Hey - anything that

"Bounce buffer" copyright [was Re: flash (or ide) storage for unibus 11?]

>> Love that term, "bounce buffer" (I wrote a whole package to support >> them in a packet switch I did) - I'm officially adopting it, right >> now! :-) > Hey - anything that anyone writes is automatically copyrighted. I realize you...may have been less than entirely serious. But what you wrote

Re: "Bounce buffer" copyright [was Re: flash (or ide) storage for unibus 11?]

>Mouse wrote: Love that term, "bounce buffer" (I wrote a whole package to support them in a packet switch I did) - I'm officially adopting it, right now! :-) Hey - anything that anyone writes is automatically copyrighted. I realize you...may have been less than entirely serious. But what

Re: flash (or ide) storage for unibus 11?

On Sat, 28 Nov 2015, Fred Cisin wrote: If other errors occur, such as "requested sector header not found", they may be misinterpreted by the drive that's "misinterpreted by CONTROLLER" although some of the fancier newer drives can also have a problem So, . . . WD style: no problem with

Re: flash (or ide) storage for unibus 11?

WD style: no problem with index pulse timing relative to data NEC765 style: index pulse is necessary during LLF, but may need to be blocked during read/write, although a few of the newest drives may not be happy without index. On Sat, 28 Nov 2015, Chuck Guzis wrote: 765/8272 are particularly

Re: flash (or ide) storage for unibus 11?

>Johnny Billquist wrote: >On 2015-11-27 19:34, Mark J. Blair wrote: >On Nov 26, 2015, at 04:29, Jerome H. Fine wrote: After that worked successfully, I became disappointed that I had to deface the floppy media with the extra holes. The simple solution was to use a

Re: flash (or ide) storage for unibus 11?

On Sat, 28 Nov 2015, Jerome H. Fine wrote: it did not cause a problem. The media could be LLF using either index hole and then read and written using the other index hole. changing the rotational position of index will not cause a problem with WD style controllers - they will read along the

Re: flash (or ide) storage for unibus 11?

> On Nov 26, 2015, at 04:29, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > > After that worked successfully, I became disappointed > that I had to deface the floppy media with the extra holes. The > simple solution was to use a DPDT switch and flip the detection > circuits so that the RX03

Re: flash (or ide) storage for unibus 11?

On 2015-11-27 23:21, Noel Chiappa wrote: > From: Jerome H. Fine > both DEC and DSD needed a bounce buffer managed by software Love that term, "bounce buffer" (I wrote a whole package to support them in a packet switch I did) - I'm officially adopting it, right now! :-) The term

Re: flash (or ide) storage for unibus 11?

On 2015-11-27 19:34, Mark J. Blair wrote: On Nov 26, 2015, at 04:29, Jerome H. Fine wrote: After that worked successfully, I became disappointed that I had to deface the floppy media with the extra holes. The simple solution was to use a DPDT switch and flip the

Re: flash (or ide) storage for unibus 11?

> From: Jerome H. Fine > both DEC and DSD needed a bounce buffer managed by software Love that term, "bounce buffer" (I wrote a whole package to support them in a packet switch I did) - I'm officially adopting it, right now! :-) Noel

Re: flash (or ide) storage for unibus 11?

On 2015-11-26 07:08, tony duell wrote: The RH11 do DMA, just like all other disk controllers I know of. IIRC, the RX11/RX211 (Unibus) and RXV11/RXV21 (Qbus) don't do DMA. The RX11/RXV11 don't do DMA, but the RX211 and RXV21 do, I think Right. And the RXV21 only have 18-bit addressing for

Re: flash (or ide) storage for unibus 11?

>tony duell wrote: The RH11 do DMA, just like all other disk controllers I know of. IIRC, the RX11/RX211 (Unibus) and RXV11/RXV21 (Qbus) don't do DMA. The RX11/RXV11 don't do DMA, but the RX211 and RXV21 do, I think I can confirm that the RXV11 for the Qbus does not and I am also

Re: flash (or ide) storage for unibus 11?

>Jerry Weiss wrote: On Nov 25, 2015, at 10:41 PM, Jerome H. Fine wrote: For example, the DSD 880/30 (from Data Systems Design of course) emulates 3 RL02 disk drives using a single internal (non-removable) hard drive. The box also holds a single RX03 floppy disk drive

Re: flash (or ide) storage for unibus 11?

On Nov 26, 2015, at 6:29 AM, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > > This a nice summary of the state of affairs for DEC/RT-11 8 inches Floppies. > >> The Sigma SDC RXV31 controller supported 22 bit DMA. See 400255-C SDC-RXV31 >> Floppy Ctrl Man Aug86 >> > I saw that model at

Re: flash (or ide) storage for unibus 11?

On 2015-11-25 10:38 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote: > From: Phil Budne ... > Linux has "gadget" support for simulating various flavors of USB > devices on a 'device' port. I have zero, none, nada interest in doing a board that can run Linux. I am sure Phil only meant that it would be

Re: flash (or ide) storage for unibus 11?

> From: Phil Budne >>> allow the board to be connected to a modern computer as a peripheral? >> Not sure I see the purpose? > Simulated serial port to MCU "console" and/or simulated q/unibus SLU(s) Yes, but... what's the point of being able to gain access to SLU's on the QBUS

Re: flash (or ide) storage for unibus 11?

> From: Toby Thain > it would be easy to interface to a board exposing such USB features > *from a separate Linux system* - because of that driver. Ah, OK - I'm so used to people putting Linux on the embedded processor in their rice cooker that, not clearly understanding what was

Re: flash (or ide) storage for unibus 11?

> > On Nov 25, 2015, at 10:41 PM, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > > >Johnny Billquist wrote: > …… > For example, the DSD 880/30 (from Data Systems Design of course) emulates > 3 RL02 disk drives using a single internal (non-removable) hard drive. The > box > also holds a

Re: flash (or ide) storage for unibus 11?

On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 3:13 AM, Johnny Billquist wrote: > The RH11 do DMA, just like all other disk controllers I know of. IIRC, the RX11/RX211 (Unibus) and RXV11/RXV21 (Qbus) don't do DMA.

Re: flash (or ide) storage for unibus 11?

>Johnny Billquist wrote: >On 2015-11-24 16:35, Al Kossow wrote: >On 11/23/15 11:46 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: Your native interface have the additional problem that in addition to requiring people to write their own device driver for any OS usage, it will be rather difficult to get booting

Re: flash (or ide) storage for unibus 11?

Hello, I have some unibus machines that always need some way to interface to modern disks. I always dream to make an universal board that could act as disk and/or tape interface to a modern medium (scsi or cf/sd card), but also ram, network, I/O, whatever... It would be very nice to design a

Re: flash (or ide) storage for unibus 11?

> From: Phil Budne > Any plans to allow USB "target" (as opposed to "host" -- I dunno if > those are the correct terms) 'host' and 'device' are the two modes for USB, IIRC. > to allow the board to be connected to a modern computer as a > peripheral? Not sure I see the

Re: flash (or ide) storage for unibus 11?

On 11/24/15 18:21, Phil Budne wrote: > I suppose "host" ports can used to support physical USB dongles of > various sorts (serial, ethernet), but I guess my orientation is "why > connect extra hardware that can be simulated?" We talked about this and put it in the category of "the hardware can

Re: flash (or ide) storage for unibus 11?

> On Nov 24, 2015, at 5:08 PM, Mark J. Blair wrote: > > >> On Nov 24, 2015, at 14:04, shad wrote: >> It would be very nice to design a system based on fpga + cpu (arm), so you >> can load linux on it and avoid the hassle of handling file systems for the

Re: flash (or ide) storage for unibus 11?

On 11/24/15 5:04 PM, shad wrote: Hello, I have some unibus machines that always need some way to interface to modern disks. I always dream to make an universal board that could act as disk and/or tape interface to a modern medium (scsi or cf/sd card), but also ram, network, I/O, whatever...

Re: flash (or ide) storage for unibus 11?

On 2015-11-24 16:35, Al Kossow wrote: On 11/23/15 11:46 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: Your native interface have the additional problem that in addition to requiring people to write their own device driver for any OS usage, it will be rather difficult to get booting from it, since that require

Re: flash (or ide) storage for unibus 11?

On 11/23/15 11:46 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: Your native interface have the additional problem that in addition to requiring people to write their own device driver for any OS usage, it will be rather difficult to get booting from it, since that require special support. There is no reason

Re: flash (or ide) storage for unibus 11?

On 2015-11-24 16:55, Mouse wrote: 3. The Q-bus comes in 2 (or 3?) flavors, the original with 18 bit addresses,$ I wouldn't go that far. I would say the MicroVAX-II counts as "in the Qbus world", and it has hardware to map Qbus memory space accesses to memory accesses, rather like the Unibus

Re: flash (or ide) storage for unibus 11?

> On Nov 24, 2015, at 10:55 AM, Johnny Billquist wrote: > > On 2015-11-24 16:43, Paul Koning wrote: >> >> ... >> To elaborate, since this seems to be an area where people get confused: > > Thanks. Yes, people do seem to be confused. > >> 1. Unibus has 18 bit addresses,

Re: flash (or ide) storage for unibus 11?

On 2015-11-24 17:14, Noel Chiappa wrote: {Catching up, after being on the road all day yesterday... Replies to quite a few people in this, sorry you'll have to read through it to find yours, didn't want to inundate the list with 17 replies.} [snip] > However, if you want to write a

Re: flash (or ide) storage for unibus 11?

{Catching up, after being on the road all day yesterday... Replies to quite a few people in this, sorry you'll have to read through it to find yours, didn't want to inundate the list with 17 replies.} > From: Jacob Ritort > Are you on keeping bits and/or status for these projects on

Re: flash (or ide) storage for unibus 11?

Noel, Any plans to allow USB "target" (as opposed to "host" -- I dunno if those are the correct terms) to allow the board to be connected to a modern computer as a peripheral? phil

Re: flash (or ide) storage for unibus 11?

> On Nov 24, 2015, at 14:04, shad wrote: > It would be very nice to design a system based on fpga + cpu (arm), so you > can load linux on it and avoid the hassle of handling file systems for the > sd card, management and configuration, etc. [...] > But: there's always the

Re: flash (or ide) storage for unibus 11?

> On Nov 24, 2015, at 2:46 AM, Johnny Billquist wrote: > > On 2015-11-23 20:30, David Bridgham wrote: >>> For a classic/straightforward programming interface, the Massbus disks >>> (RP04 and successors) are a good choice. That will take you just over 500 >>> MB, if you

Re: flash (or ide) storage for unibus 11?

> 3. The Q-bus comes in 2 (or 3?) flavors, the original with 18 bit addresses,$ I wouldn't go that far. I would say the MicroVAX-II counts as "in the Qbus world", and it has hardware to map Qbus memory space accesses to memory accesses, rather like the Unibus Map you sketch. DMA is "always to

Re: flash (or ide) storage for unibus 11?

On 2015-11-23 04:29, Jay West wrote: I'm looking for a modern storage (ie. anywhere from 100mb to "huge") device for an 11/44. I think I have seen a few hobbyist projects that were flash based, I thought I saw one that was an IDE interface Long story short I've satisfied the purist in me by

Re: flash (or ide) storage for unibus 11?

> From: Jay West > I'm looking for a modern storage ... device for an 11 Aren't we all! :-) > I think I have seen a few hobbyist projects that were flash based, I > thought I saw one that was an IDE interface I think that was probably Brad Parker's prototype? > Anyone

Re: flash (or ide) storage for unibus 11?

On 11/23/15 9:11 AM, Paul Koning wrote: On Nov 23, 2015, at 10:10 AM, David Bridgham wrote: ... However, once we get a prototype doing something interesting, we were talking about looking around for people interested in helping out. We'll do a couple disk controllers but

Re: flash (or ide) storage for unibus 11?

On 2015-11-23 18:11, Paul Koning wrote: On Nov 23, 2015, at 10:10 AM, David Bridgham wrote: ... However, once we get a prototype doing something interesting, we were talking about looking around for people interested in helping out. We'll do a couple disk controllers but

Re: flash (or ide) storage for unibus 11?

On 2015-11-23 18:17, Guy Sotomayor wrote: On 11/23/15 9:11 AM, Paul Koning wrote: On Nov 23, 2015, at 10:10 AM, David Bridgham wrote: ... However, once we get a prototype doing something interesting, we were talking about looking around for people interested in helping

Re: flash (or ide) storage for unibus 11?

Uh, no. Interfacing to an HDA (especially a modern one) is not for the faint of heart. The drive controller is usually a custom (to the drive family) ASIC. In many cases the firmware and drive parameters are stored on the drive media itself. The read/write amplifiers are usually tuned to

flash (or ide) storage for unibus 11?

I'm looking for a modern storage (ie. anywhere from 100mb to "huge") device for an 11/44. I think I have seen a few hobbyist projects that were flash based, I thought I saw one that was an IDE interface Long story short I've satisfied the purist in me by putting an RL02 on the machine, but

RE: flash (or ide) storage for unibus 11?

Alas... I have no scsi cards for any of my dec gear. I was hoping for a CF based device that plugs straight into the unibus... or similar solution... J